Ryuku-sama Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm actually going to do a quick test to see if the crit that procs advanced targetting will also be affected by it, because if it does than they may as well give +10% surge to you automatically. That would be pretty odd... The damage inflicted is proccing Target Lock.. So logic say it shouldn't buff said damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) That would be pretty odd... The damage inflicted is proccing Target Lock.. So logic say it shouldn't buff said damage. Test is over, Target Lock DOES NOT affect the attack that procs it (Relics were removed for the purpose of that test) Edited December 22, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Test is over, Target Lock DOES NOT affect the attack that procs it (Relics were removed for the purpose of that test) Since its generaly only the first crit that is affected by it. I don't think that its such an issue. Every crit that refreshes the buff is buffed by the crit before. Also Ryuku I have around 230 crit rating and 1200 power now. Do you suggest to swap more power for crit? Or do you calculate with higher stat budget? Edited December 22, 2014 by spudik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Since its generaly only the first crit that is affected by it. I don't think that its such an issue. Every crit that refreshes the buff is buffed by the crit before. Also Ryuku I have around 230 crit rating and 1200 power now. Do you suggest to swap more power for crit? Or do you calculate with higher stat budget? Based on the fact he said 120 alacrity, im betting he's talking about Revanite Gear (AKA Optimized 198s with a set bonus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Since its generaly only the first crit that is affected by it. I don't think that its such an issue. Every crit that refreshes the buff is buffed by the crit before. Also Ryuku I have around 230 crit rating and 1200 power now. Do you suggest to swap more power for crit? Or do you calculate with higher stat budget? TACe is right.. I'M talking about 198.. But for lower gear level.. One Alac enhancement.. Enough Accuracy to hit 100/110%, the rest surge. Then about 25% of your stat budget in crit, the rest in power.. Augment for main stat.. It should net you a good DPS.. can't say for sure tho And I don,t really wanna plot another set of curve once I'm finish with my 198's ones... This should apply also for lvl 55 considering you don't gain anything that would affect the curves between 55 and 60.. Just remove the Alacrity enhancement. If you aren,t raiding just get 95/105 accuracy and stack some more surge and one alacrity enhancement (anyway if you aren't raiding you won't have BiS mods and enhancements) Edited December 22, 2014 by Ryuku-sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'll test a bit more crit then. Anyway I'm not really complaining about my Dps as I said I'm averaging around 4k. I'm just curious where those guys get their 4,5k parses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) I'll test a bit more crit then. Anyway I'm not really complaining about my Dps as I said I'm averaging around 4k. I'm just curious where those guys get their 4,5k parses. My average calculation and simulation get me 4520 DPS for the standard 90s rotation (plotted on 180s) and 5085 DPS during execute phase (plotted on 90s)... And I didn't include adrenals nor stims *bang my head into a wall for forgetting to put a stim in the maths* I'll have to replot max DPS curves.. again... For the third time... /facedesk But it shouldn,t change the optmisation in 198 .. Go for one alacrity enhancement, enough accuracy to hit 100/110 (use one augment). Get 500-550 crit. Augment for main stat. Main stat augments end up with 15-20 DPS over power/crit. I tested one alac augment... It ends up 5 DPS behind using a full enhancement, both with main stat augments. EDIT : After having added an Anodyne stim to my math.. I get 4658 and 5237 DPS... And BiS crit is leaning more toward 550-600 closer to 550.. Now I just gotta find a way to my excel spreadsheet toplot my curves from itself by testing all values I enter in it instead of forcing me to do it one by one -.- EDIT : 555 is BiS crit.. So anywhere between 550 and 560 is at max DPS up to the hundreth... But you can easily go anywhere between 500 and 600.... Edited December 22, 2014 by Ryuku-sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Well thx for your work good sir Its good to see crit rating have some meaning after 2.x Still dependable on the spec and class ofcourse as are augments (right TACe? ) Now gimme some of those shiny 198. Sadly my group is getting to HM Ops after holidays... Edited December 22, 2014 by spudik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) /facedesk I just checked Dulfy's guide.. It has a few mistake in the rotation.... But I found something worst.. All my maths are false!!! I'm working with outdated coefficients taken form Miner's calculator... *cries* Now I'll have to do the job myself and pull the coefficient from the game by myself *cries* On the same note, if anyone has merc they are gearing, I would like to ask you to take note of your exact bonus damage, barrel/armoring MH/OH rating and the changes when you swap gear around along with the change on every abilities' damage... It would help me a lot. Yeah I admit my Merc is deep in the Euro servers and I'm currently leveling another on US servers. Thus why I haven't seen how wrong my coefficients were (it's pretty scary for our DoTs).. Edited December 22, 2014 by Ryuku-sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Well what concerns me most about the guide on Dulfy is they are delaying Thermal Detonator. Usage in the "sample" 5.1k parse is around 21.2 sec and they use way more Power Shots. Could it be that the delayed damage on TD gimps the DPS a bit? I have to try the rotation tonight to see what I get. So far when I used the rotation from this thread I managed to do 4164 yesterday after adding a 64 crit in favor of 43 pwr (ye was proly only pure luck but still ) the overal crit percentage hoped up. Sitting on 280 crit. rating now and thinking about more Anyways, if u could use data from Commando feel free to PM me. I don't mind running few tests EDIT: Just by looking at the rotation, Marisi is effectively procing Supercharge every 2 Mag Bolts (30s) as opposed to every third and half (53s) in the OPs rotation, that alone is pretty significant boost to Heat management and even damage it self. Probably makes up for the delayed TD too... Edited December 23, 2014 by spudik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Well so far, I have tried OPs, cs_Zoltan and the new Zorz rotation, and Im getting same numbers with them on 500k dummy (trying to minimize the time when I can make a mistake in the rotations that are new to me ) But its making me wonder even more if there is any Mando out there who could post a parse. Cuz the "sample" parse posted by Zorz is 800 DPS ahead of me. And I don't really think its a gear issue only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookB Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 /facedesk I just checked Dulfy's guide.. It has a few mistake in the rotation.... But I found something worst.. All my maths are false!!! I'm working with outdated coefficients taken form Miner's calculator... *cries* Now I'll have to do the job myself and pull the coefficient from the game by myself *cries* On the same note, if anyone has merc they are gearing, I would like to ask you to take note of your exact bonus damage, barrel/armoring MH/OH rating and the changes when you swap gear around along with the change on every abilities' damage... It would help me a lot. There was a post a while back to a DPS simulator. It is very accurate both for gear stats and damage calculation. The hidden sheet "Attack Calcs" has the latest coefficients and matches the tooltips exactly. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=781953 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFBHitmarkers Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/UiK46nG.png 4.362k dps, no adrenal..in crap comm gear..getting better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Still a Merc want Mando I play the class for 2 months, but I don't think Im screwing up so badly to justify 300+ DPS difference. got 186 crafted Enchancements 186 and 192 droped Implants rest more or less from comm vendors (186 MH/192 OH) and I can't get more then 4150... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Still a Merc want Mando I play the class for 2 months, but I don't think Im screwing up so badly to justify 300+ DPS difference. got 186 crafted Enchancements 186 and 192 droped Implants rest more or less from comm vendors (186 MH/192 OH) and I can't get more then 4150... Compare your DoT damage to the Zorz sample parse to see how bad your gear is ^^ Also check APM (it should be 39-40) and your avarage cooldown of the important abilities (take the time of the parse and divide it with ability activation number. The closer you are to the actual cooldown the better) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Still a Merc want Mando I play the class for 2 months, but I don't think Im screwing up so badly to justify 300+ DPS difference. got 186 crafted Enchancements 186 and 192 droped Implants rest more or less from comm vendors (186 MH/192 OH) and I can't get more then 4150... If you think your rotation is fine, you can try and calculate the difference the gear would bring by comparing the average "per hit" damage of each individual attack in your parse to the attacks in the guide. For example, if your uncritted Mag Shots are hitting for 2500 (compared to 2829 on the parse), that's a 13% difference. Edit: cs_zoltan beat me to it Edited December 23, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) If you think your rotation is fine, you can try and calculate the difference the gear would bring by comparing the average "per hit" damage of each individual attack in your parse to the attacks in the guide. For example, if your uncritted Mag Shots are hitting for 2500 (compared to 2829 on the parse), that's a 13% difference. Edit: cs_zoltan beat me to it My Serrated DoT bleed tick - 1117 Iscendiary Round - 994 Plasma Cell - 643 Marisi SB - 1259 IR - 1118 PC - 696 comparing Mag Bolt or something isnt really viable because of lower damage on pistol vs. cannon (my average is 4998 hers 2829) Still not sure if it justifies the 800-900 DPS difference. Thats why I want Commando who actualy knows the class cuz Im not saying Im doing everything perfect EDIT: If I'm counting right there is 12% difference on the SB, IR DoTs. so even if there is difference 12% it would still make 4.6k. Im getting same results with yours rotation Zoltan as with Marisis. Have u tested hers yet? If there is any difference? Edited December 23, 2014 by spudik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Well Marisi used to parse on his Mando quite a lot so I guess you could ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Well Marisi used to parse on his Mando quite a lot so I guess you could ask him. Well they say in the Dulfy guide, that neither of them has a Mando so they are posting Merc parse... So either he/she deleted mando or are just too lazy to level (kinda understand that ) Anyways since I have u here Zoltan, whats ur opinion on the Zorz rotation? im kinda satisfied with urs... Edited December 23, 2014 by spudik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Well they say in the Dulfy guide, that neither of them has a Mando so they are posting Merc parse... So either he/she deleted mando or are just too lazy to level (kinda understand that ) Anyways since I have u here Zoltan, whats ur opinion on the Zorz rotation? im kinda satisfied with urs... I wrote my detailed opinion in that thread ^^ So I can't really wrap my head around this rotation you guys use. For future reference I type my and your general rotation down: Yours: UL->Filler1->PS(StB use)->MS->IM->SS->PS->Filler2->MS(StB proc) Filler1: EN>TD>MB>RS Filler2: PS>RS Mine: IM->Filler1->PS(StB use)->MS->TD->Filler2->SS->UL->MS(StB proc) Filler1: EN>FM (sub30% only)>PS>RS Filler2: EN>MB>RS Now these are my problems with it: 1. It's less mobile. That's obvious, not a big deal, moving on... 2. In your rotation TD is only a filler and it's place is taken by a second mandatory PS. TD is so much stronger that I just can't understand why would you do this? Even with the SCG stack that PS builds it still doesn't compete with TD. I did some math on the subject, but in absence of the coefficents I had to base it on tooltip damage relative to my gear :/ TD's damage after armor and all the debuffs with avaraged crit: 5123,475 PS's damage after armor and all the debuffs with avaraged crit and off-hand hit: 3364 Damage gained from SCG: 9600,5 10 TD: 51234,75 10 PS + SCG: 43240,5 3. The rotation is too strict with heat and GCDs. -First example, AoE: If you'd want to use FM as a filler for adds, you'd have to drop TD for it because you either don't have the GCD for it or the heat or both (depending where you use FM). In my rotation I have 2 place where I can use FM for adds and all I lose for it is a single PS which, based on my second point, is less of a dps loss than TD. -Second example, Execute phase: In your rotation you either replace TD with MB (which is a dps loss) or you use both in which case all your GCDs are tied up and that's heavily heat negative to the point where it's unsustainable without heat management cooldowns. Also you can no way in hell squeez in a FM, which is stonger in execute phase than PS. In contrast to that, with my rotation you can use both TD and MB and even sustain it for a longer period (not indefinitely though) and even have a leftover GCD to squeez in FM when you have cooldowns up. So I wonder what your reasons are? (PS: I used "my rotation" a lot, but in fact it was based on Gyro's PTS rotation, so most credit goes to him ) Edited December 23, 2014 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Still not sure if it justifies the 800-900 DPS difference. Thats why I want Commando who actualy knows the class cuz Im not saying Im doing everything perfect Well, it's about 12% lower, which would account for a 500 dps difference. (4100 * 1.12 == 4600) The next thing to check would be APM. If your APM is the same (40), compare the number of times different attacks were used. Lastly, check the average crit percentage. Edited December 23, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 And haven't got a response so I wonder if u at least tried it. As I said I'm getting similar results with both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I did, I got better results with mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudik Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Im about 50 DPS ahead with yours/Gyros. Guess we miss that special something u get when u are in Zorz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Im about 50 DPS ahead with yours/Gyros. Guess we miss that special something u get when u are in Zorz... Not really... Their rotation have huge amount of crit.. THey aren't in optimized 198 so I guess they have maybe 400 crit probably less and they have a crit rate I could see in optimized 198 with 650 crit... THey used a high DPS parse and not an average one. The damage from both rotation should end up fairly the same on a dummy. Their rotation falls in heavy movement fight because of the second PS, in AoE fight because of the lack of fillers to spread DoTs efficiently... Otherwise both rotation are equal. And finally.. I finished my maths... Thank spudik for the data... So... Augment for Aim, use one Accuracy augment if you can't accept 99.6/109.6% One Alacrity piece, 6 Accuracy pieces, 3 Surge pieces 650 crit is optimal, the difference is minimal between 500 and 750 (less than 5 DPS) On a perfectly average parse, I get 4761 DPS on a 180s non-execute rotation and 5380 DPS on a 90s execute rotation. Note that I haven't included Adrenal in my maths and that my SCC uses isn't reliable.. So it should reach in the upper 4900/5400 easily. Considering the opener isn't really bursty, we can calculate total DPS simply with DPS*0.7+Execute DPS*0.3. Therefore, we should easily parse over 4950 in optimized 198... An honest guess would place a good parse with solid SCC and average crit at 5150-5200. So a top parse with above average crits would probably go well over 5.2k Edited December 23, 2014 by Ryuku-sama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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