Why does the Knight seem to advance so relatively slowly in rank?

[Kyrrant]

It's not "maybe", it's "definitely."

 

 

The Empire only proposed a peace treaty supposedly due to the link Revan shared with the Emperor, not much else.

 

 

Before that, the Empire had the upper-hand. Plus, Angral and Malgus were itching to burn Coruscant to the ground; Kilran too possibly.

 

From what I recall, it wasn't so lopsided... but that's basically irrelevant. Leaving aside the impact of the fog of war (after all, you never know how strong the other guy REALLY is...), what's going to sound more likely to a Sith-hating politician?

 

1: The Sith Empire was on their last legs, and used an underhanded, vile trick to steal a draw because they knew they couldn't win.

 

Or...

 

2: A 300 year old Jedi-Turned-Sith-Turned-Jedi was spiritually merged with the Sith Emperor and managed to claim enough influence over the Emperor to convince the most powerful Sith in existence, possibly ever, to go for peace instead of continue the war.

 

What's true doesn't matter as much as how characters see the truth. To someone that has a reason to hate the sneaky Sith, and doesn't have much insight into how crazy Force crap can get... #1 makes complete sense, and #2 sounds like the ravings of a conspiracy nut.

[jovianus]

Worse yet, the destruction of the Republic's Restoration Project takes place around the time the Empire looses Balmorra, give or take.

 

Solid strategic thinking there, especially considering what a valuable asset Balmorra should have been.

 

The Imperial loss of Balmorra is the result of Bioware railroading plain and simple. At the end of the Imperial storyline you crush the rebellion, cut it off from Republic support, and publicly humiliate the Republic to the point that it explicitly states that there are riots breaking out on Coruscant in opposition to meddling on Balmorra and the Republic is forced to withdraw forces from several nearby sectors.

 

And within a couple of months the Republic swoops back in to an easy victory because..herp derp the good guys always win.

 

All the soldiers and Sith of the Empire are no match for the power of developer fiat.

[dcaleb]

The Imperial loss of Balmorra is the result of Bioware railroading plain and simple. At the end of the Imperial storyline you crush the rebellion, cut it off from Republic support, and publicly humiliate the Republic to the point that it explicitly states that there are riots breaking out on Coruscant in opposition to meddling on Balmorra and the Republic is forced to withdraw forces from several nearby sectors.

 

And within a couple of months the Republic swoops back in to an easy victory because..herp derp the good guys always win.

 

All the soldiers and Sith of the Empire are no match for the power of developer fiat.

 

The Republic retook Balmorra because they had PCs there while Imperial PCs are off poisoning cathars and polluting the environment on Taris just to be *****s. This is also seen on Corellia where the Imperial PCs apparently arrive first, finish up their business, and then leave just in time for Republic PCs to show up and steamroll everyone. So at least the Empire held Balmorra a couple of years after you cleaned house instead of losing it the minute you left like Corellia.

[Raphael_diSanto]

If I can drag this back on topic a little, it's true that the JK gets the master title later (if at all), but really, the JK is the darling of the Republic, much more than the Consular.

 

I noticed an interesting similarity between the stories on Tython and the overall arc.

 

On Tython, the consular must collect the pieces of their lightsaber by hand before putting them together.

The JK gets given one.

 

The consular spends the majority of their story collecting the pieces of their army for Corellia.

The JK shows up and gets given one.

 

The JK's the speshul snowflake here, without a doubt. I suspect BioWare wrote the JK story with the sheer amount of cheese and U R TEH HERO just to appease the fanboys who go to sleep at night dreaming of being the heroic jedi who saves the galaxy (And defies the order by romancing Kira, because, you know, they're the hero and as such they know better than the Order and can choose to ignore whatever rules they deem don't apply to them)

[Darkelefantos]

Solid strategic thinking there, especially considering what a valuable asset Balmorra should have been.

Planning and execution courtesy to Lord Razer, I presume

[jovianus]

If I can drag this back on topic a little, it's true that the JK gets the master title later (if at all), but really, the JK is the darling of the Republic, much more than the Consular.

 

I noticed an interesting similarity between the stories on Tython and the overall arc.

 

On Tython, the consular must collect the pieces of their lightsaber by hand before putting them together.

The JK gets given one.

 

The consular spends the majority of their story collecting the pieces of their army for Corellia.

The JK shows up and gets given one.

 

The JK's the speshul snowflake here, without a doubt. I suspect BioWare wrote the JK story with the sheer amount of cheese and U R TEH HERO just to appease the fanboys who go to sleep at night dreaming of being the heroic jedi who saves the galaxy (And defies the order by romancing Kira, because, you know, they're the hero and as such they know better than the Order and can choose to ignore whatever rules they deem don't apply to them)

 

This is why I find the JK largely unplayable. I can only choke down so much cheese in a day, and a private audience with the Grandmaster of the Order gushing over you after you've completed your very first class mission fills that quota up in a hurry, and it just gets worse from there.

 

And it really does make a stark contrast to the Consular, who is barely acknowledged regardless of what he's doing. I mean, even the Barsen'thor title felt more like an 'Employee of the Month' award, given that apparently nobody else on the Council, or even the Masters you saved, could be bothered to show up for this supposed singular honor that hasn't been bestowed on a Jedi in thousands of years.

Edited December 18, 2014 by jovianus

[Ghisallo]

The Imperial loss of Balmorra is the result of Bioware railroading plain and simple. At the end of the Imperial storyline you crush the rebellion, cut it off from Republic support, and publicly humiliate the Republic to the point that it explicitly states that there are riots breaking out on Coruscant in opposition to meddling on Balmorra and the Republic is forced to withdraw forces from several nearby sectors.

 

And within a couple of months the Republic swoops back in to an easy victory because..herp derp the good guys always win.

 

All the soldiers and Sith of the Empire are no match for the power of developer fiat.

 

No, the problem is the Empire does what Hitler did. Okay we have Balmorra...time to move onto Voss...oops they blew my fleet out of the air....onto Corelli's...onto...

 

Rather than take territory and hold, the Empire, after doing the equivelent of taking Western Europe decided to try and take North Africa, where supplies are tight thanks to GB Naval Superiority and then...hey let's invade Russia while we are at it. All the while they are wasting resource screwing around on planets with little strategic value (Taris), fighting amongst themselves (both Sith story lines) etc. The Empire has always been analogous to the Nazis/Axis powers in WWII right down to the Human Supremecist angle.

 

Also you do realize that "rioting" on Coruscant is more than likely a Propaganda op largely spearheaded by Emperial proxies like the Justicar and stuff. If there is anything I learned from the Emperial stories it is "trust nothing and no one except your blaster or saber.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Ghisallo

[Varium]

The Republic retook Balmorra because they had PCs there while Imperial PCs are off poisoning cathars and polluting the environment on Taris just to be *****s. This is also seen on Corellia where the Imperial PCs apparently arrive first, finish up their business, and then leave just in time for Republic PCs to show up and steamroll everyone. So at least the Empire held Balmorra a couple of years after you cleaned house instead of losing it the minute you left like Corellia.

 

umm, the imperial PC's pretty much helped Republic much as the Rep ones.

[Kyrrant]

 

...well, strictly speaking, that's not entirely fair. The treaty between Russian and Nazi Germany was not going to last. Germany knew it, Russia knew it, if Germany didn't attack, Russia would have at some point...

 

I wouldn't call it railroading either, though. Its hard to say for sure, because there's no actual timeline for the events in the game, but from context, it seems like at least a year or two passes between the end of act 1 and the beginning of Act 2. That'd be more than enough time for the Republic to come back around to supporting the rebellion there, especially since, well, Balmoora's kinda an important world.

 

I find the Knight story to be a lot better than the Consular story, though. Act 2/3 of Consular isn't too bad, at least... but Act 1 is dull as hell, miniscule stakes and utterly predictable, start to finish, and doesn't have Orgus Din, the best Jedi Master full stop.

 

JK story has its problems, without question. The whole act-2 finale was a wonderful opportunity for some creative storytelling, that went completely wasted. But at least it kept the scale big and made most of the planet-stories interesting and impactful in their own right.

[Raphael_diSanto]

JK story has its problems, without question. The whole act-2 finale was a wonderful opportunity for some creative storytelling, that went completely wasted. But at least it kept the scale big and made most of the planet-stories interesting and impactful in their own right.

 

I think this is where personal preference comes in. I usually prefer the smaller scale, more personally-impactful stories to the "oh god, we're saving the planet/galaxy/universe again" *yawn*

[jovianus]

I find the Knight story to be a lot better than the Consular story, though. Act 2/3 of Consular isn't too bad, at least... but Act 1 is dull as hell, miniscule stakes and utterly predictable, start to finish, and doesn't have Orgus Din, the best Jedi Master full stop.

 

JK story has its problems, without question. The whole act-2 finale was a wonderful opportunity for some creative storytelling, that went completely wasted. But at least it kept the scale big and made most of the planet-stories interesting and impactful in their own right.

 

I wouldn't say miniscule stakes. A permanent schism between the Jedi and the Republic would have been..kind of bad, and very likely if it became common knowledge that there was some Sith plague going around corrupting Jedi Masters and the Order had no idea what it was or how to stop it. I like the Consular story because it explores the aspects of the Jedi that we're always told about but never see, ie their role as healers and diplomats and advisors.

 

And it's hard to take criticism of the Consular story as 'predictable' seriously when defending the JK storyline, where from pretty much the moment you kill your first Flesh Raider the entire Universe is bowing down to recognize your Supreme Unquestionable Awesomeness Forever And Always. The JK is supposedly the story of Luke, if Luke had been pumped full of steroids and given a lightsaber while he was in his crib.

[Darth_Wicked]

I wouldn't say miniscule stakes. A permanent schism between the Jedi and the Republic would have been..kind of bad, and very likely if it became common knowledge that there was some Sith plague going around corrupting Jedi Masters and the Order had no idea what it was or how to stop it. I like the Consular story because it explores the aspects of the Jedi that we're always told about but never see, ie their role as healers and diplomats and advisors.

 

Sans the consequences that accompany them.

 

Consular gets to learn a shielding / healing technique that took the life of its previous user, yet behold: the Consular goes about its business, without a single worry in the world. At all.

 

This assuming it goes around the galaxy healing / shielding said Jedi, of course.

 

I do agree that the JK is supposed to be the Chosen One from day one, but the JC isn't any better.

 

Also, if your Consular is a total git, DS-wise, he or she may go down as the greatest Jedi mass murderer in history.

The number of Jedi you can kill in a single second is greater than the number of burgers Darth Baras can swallow in a single gulp.

The JK, even if a DS git, is always a hero at least.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Ghisallo]

...well, strictly speaking, that's not entirely fair. The treaty between Russian and Nazi Germany was not going to last. Germany knew it, Russia knew it, if Germany didn't attack, Russia would have at some point...

 

I wouldn't call it railroading either, though. Its hard to say for sure, because there's no actual timeline for the events in the game, but from context, it seems like at least a year or two passes between the end of act 1 and the beginning of Act 2. That'd be more than enough time for the Republic to come back around to supporting the rebellion there, especially since, well, Balmoora's kinda an important world.

 

I find the Knight story to be a lot better than the Consular story, though. Act 2/3 of Consular isn't too bad, at least... but Act 1 is dull as hell, miniscule stakes and utterly predictable, start to finish, and doesn't have Orgus Din, the best Jedi Master full stop.

 

JK story has its problems, without question. The whole act-2 finale was a wonderful opportunity for some creative storytelling, that went completely wasted. But at least it kept the scale big and made most of the planet-stories interesting and impactful in their own right.

 

You are right with the nonaggression pact. The problem is you invade Russia AFTER you don't get pissy in the Battle of Britain. I did a lot of research on this in College (it was my main paper, I was a history major). In essence the Brits were on the ropes. The British radar was being knocked out, they were losing fighter command through shear attrition both in terms of pilots and damage to air fields, even with the low loiter time of the short to medium range bombers and fighters Germany was using. Hitler gets pissy Because Bomber command dares to bomb a German city. The Luftwaffe panics, becomes indecisive and stopped attacking military targets and went for night time bombings of civilian centers in Sept 1940. Battle of Britain is essentially lost because now fighter command has the breathing room to rebuild and recover.

 

Without taking Great Britain out you still had a Western Front AND a front in Africa. You don't fight a war on two fronts let alone 3. The Empire is even worse. Taris has no strategic value. They don't fortify what they already have. Germany had to keep a good number of troops in other regions in order to secure them...thus the invasion of Russia was far less than it should have been (then make it even less by having soldiers on that front not involved in fighting the war but rather with geoncide.). The Empire takes a place (Balmorra say) then says...okay leave a token force behind and move onto the next target. This may work in a land battle. Let's use France again. You don't need to fully defend Paris from Invasion if you control the boarders. UNLESS you enemy can essentially teleport (hello hyperspace). I was always shaking my head about the Empire going from cold war to hot war without either A) completely overwhelming force of numbers B) the SWTOR version of "the bomb", with of course the Republic having to lack it. Until again I drawn the WWII analogy. The Supreme leader being a complete nut job. Yes there are those legitimately loyal to him but the bulk are divided into either people who could move against him are afraid to do because of his power and Secret Police and those who use the system and their lip service loyalty as a means to person power and internal political machinations. That rarely ends well through out history.

[Kyrrant]

I think this is where personal preference comes in. I usually prefer the smaller scale, more personally-impactful stories to the "oh god, we're saving the planet/galaxy/universe again" *yawn*

 

Actually, I prefer the smaller scale stuff too...which is something the JK story actually did pretty well. The characters you meet throughout the areas have nice, small stories with solid arcs as they help you save the day. Belsavis and Voss are standout examples of how to write engaging secondary characters in the midst of a high-stakes epic...

 

...and not enough love can be given for letting us run into the Jedi we helped along the way again on Corellia. Small, short scenes, sure, but full of life and cleverness. Well contrasted against stuff like Yuon Parr, the Consular's master who... never shows up after Act 1, never is mentioned again.

 

The Consular story worked best when it was dealing with the political angle, without question. It felt like there was an actual impact to it, something that was lost when the story jackknifed into the Children of the Emperor silliness.

 

The JK's "Super Special Awesome Hero" stuff... it didn't bother me too much, because it felt like a solid exploration of the Hero's Journey. There were surprises that were still well set-up (Kira's possession, how badly the Leeroy Jenkins goes, Scourge's turncoatness without going all goody-goody), and nothing nearly as bad as the Vivicar 'reveal', which was the lynchpin of act 1 for the Consular and guessable way, way too early.

 

Again, Consular did get better. It just needed more stuff like Balmoora (and Zenith, OMG, Zenith...)... and I think that's the first time I've given Balmoora a compliment >_>.

[jovianus]

Sans the consequences that accompany them.

 

Consular gets to learn a shielding / healing technique that took the life of its previous user, yet behold: the Consular goes about its business, without a single worry in the world. At all.

 

This assuming it goes around the galaxy healing / shielding all said Jedi, of course.

 

Which is why the focus is on finding Lord Vivicar and stopping him before it gets to that point. We have no idea how many people the previous Jedi shielded before they died and Morhage was finally stopped. In the course of the Consular story you only end up having to shield 6.

 

The weakness/danger of the using the technique kind of had to be a plot convenience, not a lot of people would be playing Consulars at all if they spent the entirety of Act 1 having their power slowly scaled down rather than up.

 

Also, if your Consular is a total git, DS-wise, he or she may go down as the greatest Jedi mass murderer in history.

The number of Jedi you can kill in a single second is greater than the number of burgers Darth Baras can swallow in a single gulp.

The JK, even if a DS git, is always a hero at least.

 

For killing 6 Masters to preserve the rest of the Order? Only the Jedi affected by the plague die if Vivicar does. So while saving them might be preferable, even the dark side option of killing still ultimately leads to ending the threat to the Order.

[Darth_Wicked]

Which is why the focus is on finding Lord Vivicar and stopping him before it gets to that point. We have no idea how many people the previous Jedi shielded before they died and Morhage was finally stopped. In the course of the Consular story you only end up having to shield 6.

 

It hardly changes the fact that the Consular was unaffected by it, despite what the story early on alludes to. Again, people talk about the Knight, yet conveniently ignore this aspect about the Consular.

 

The weakness/danger of the using the technique kind of had to be a plot convenience, not a lot of people would be playing Consulars at all if they spent the entirety of Act 1 having their power slowly scaled down rather than up.

 

That is irrelevant.

 

The point is that because reasons, the Consular appears to be unaffected by things that would affect other Jedi, and against all odds, it seemingly triumphs.

 

I fail to see how, in essence, the above is any different from the Knight.

 

For killing 6 Masters to preserve the rest of the Order? Only the Jedi affected by the plague die if Vivicar does. So while saving them might be preferable, even the dark side option of killing still ultimately leads to ending the threat to the Order.

 

Actually, that is incorrect.

If you kill "Parkanas", you receive a mail where at least a dozen dead Jedi are listed as having been killed.

 

As a result of "Parkanas'" death.

 

That page is the first of eleven or twelve if memory serves me right.

I can check on my screenshots if you wish though.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[jovianus]

It hardly changes the fact that the Consular was unaffected by it, despite what the story early on alludes to. Again, people talk about the Knight, yet conveniently ignore this aspect about the Consular

That is irrelevant.

 

The point is that because reasons, the Consular appears to be unaffected by things that would affect other Jedi, and against all odds, it seemingly triumphs.

 

I fail to see how, in essence, the above is any different from the Knight.

 

Not really, all we're told is that shielding will ultimately consume the Consular if the source of the plague isn't stopped. We're not handed a chart showing symptoms per Jedi shielded. For all we know the previous Jedi may have shielded dozens, or hundreds, before they died.

 

Actually, that is incorrect.

If you kill "Parkanas", you receive a mail where at least a dozen dead Jedi are listed as having been killed.

 

As a result of "Parkanas'" death.

 

That page is the first of eleven or twelve if memory serves me right.

I can check on my screenshots if you wish though.

 

Which doesn't actually change the fact that while saving them might have been preferable, the Consulars actions still ultimately end the plague and the threat to the Order. I'm pretty sure we're never actually given any direct evidence that shielding Vivicar will end the threat, the Consular just assumes that it will.

[Darth_Wicked]

Not really, all we're told is that shielding will ultimately consume the Consular if the source of the plague isn't stopped. We're not handed a chart showing symptoms per Jedi shielded. For all we know the previous Jedi may have shielded dozens, or hundreds, before they died.

 

As I mentioned earlier, yet again, it hardly changes the fact that the Consular appears to be unaffected by it. It matters little if the previous user shielded hundreds of thousands before it died.

 

What we do know if that it NOT only weakened him or her, but also took his life in the process.

 

Neither one came to happen to the Consular; not even the weakening part, aside a kneeling animation.

 

In other words, the Consular isn't any better in that aspect than the Knight. That much is clear.

 

Both are Special Snowflakes.

 

Which doesn't actually change the fact that while saving them might have been preferable, the Consulars actions still ultimately end the plague and the threat to the Order. I'm pretty sure we're never actually given any direct evidence that shielding Vivicar will end the threat, the Consular just assumes that it will.

 

You are deflecting the subject.

 

Earlier, you claimed something which wasn't the case. In fact, the Jedi Consular could go down in history as the greatest Jedi mass murderer, presuming a DS choice was to be taken. In one millisecond at any rate.

 

You seem hell bent in making a hero out of the Consular, while giving the Knight some kind of Special Snowflake-status.

 

When, in fact, both classes / characters suffer from the same exact issue nonetheless. They ALL do.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[dcaleb]

The shielding didn't lower your stats for the same reason Inquisitors don't get a stat boost from going around binding ghosts, it would screw with balance against other players to do something like that.

[Darth_Wicked]

The shielding didn't lower your stats for the same reason Inquisitors don't get a stat boost from going around binding ghosts, it would screw with balance against other players to do something like that.

 

That is true. It is also something I am aware of.

 

Regardless, it does NOT change the fact that the Consular, despite all odds and what not, appears to be unaffected by something that would either weaken or kill -- if not both -- a lesser Jedi.

 

Yet, for reasons I can't exactly understand, the Knight is the Special Snowflake guy or gal, NEVER the Consular. Despite the game remembering the player that you're getting weaker and weaker by the minute, every time you use the shielding / healing technique.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[jovianus]

As I mentioned earlier, yet again, it hardly changes the fact that the Consular appears to be unaffected by it. It matters little if the previous user shielded hundreds of thousands before it died.

 

What we do know if that it NOT only weakened him or her, but also took his life in the process.

 

Neither one came to happen to the Consular; not even the weakening part, aside a kneeling animation.

 

In other words, the Consular isn't any better in that aspect than the Knight. That much is clear.

 

Both are Special Snowflakes.

 

So you're saying that number of Jedi the previous user shielded before succumbing is irrelevant to whether the Consular should be crippled by shielding 6 people? If it's possible to shield dozens, or hundreds of people before breaking, then there's no particular reason why shielding 6 should have any particular dramatic results. The warning about the effects of the technique comes before you have any real information about the source of the plague, and no idea how many people you will ultimately have to shield.

 

You are deflecting the subject.

 

Earlier, you claimed something which wasn't the case. In fact, the Jedi Consular could go down in history as the greatest Jedi mass murderer, presuming a DS choice was to be taken. In one millisecond at any rate.

 

You seem hell bent in making a hero out of the Consular, while giving the Knight some kind of Special Snowflake-status.

 

When, in fact, both classes / characters suffer from the same exact issue nonetheless. They ALL do.

 

No, I'm pointing out that the DS Consular isn't just mass-murdering Jedi for the lulz, it's the consequence of choosing to permanently end the threat to the Order instead of hoping that shielding Vivicar will fix everything. The Consular doesn't even know those other victims exist, all the information you have up to that time is that only the people with a direct personal connection to Parkanas were affected.

 

And my criticism of the Jedi Knight is not about the general theme in TOR where 'consequences' rarely exist for PC's, it's how his entire story is one of people falling on their faces at his awesomeness right out of the gate. The Consular, even a shining paragon Light Side Consular, doesn't get that kind of treatment. As I mentioned before, even the whole 'Barsen'thor' thing, this singular honor not bestowed in thousands of years, comes across as more of an 'Employee of the Month' award for all the ceremony and interest surrounding it. Meanwhile every time the JK sneezes the entire Council convenes to congratulate him.

[Darth_Wicked]

So you're saying that number of Jedi the previous user shielded before succumbing is irrelevant to whether the Consular should be crippled by shielding 6 people?

 

I did not say that. Reading attentively usually helps.

 

I do such when reading your posts; it would be a matter of courtesy to do the same with mine.

 

If it's possible to shield dozens, or hundreds of people before breaking, then there's no particular reason why shielding 6 should have any particular dramatic results. The warning about the effects of the technique comes before you have any real information about the source of the plague, and no idea how many people you will ultimately have to shield.

 

And yet again, it would seem you are inclined to ignore what I say, in addition to what the game states; It is something recurring around these parts apparently.

 

No, I'm pointing out that the DS Consular isn't just mass-murdering Jedi for the lulz, it's the consequence of choosing to permanently end the threat to the Order instead of hoping that shielding Vivicar will fix everything.

 

And I am pointing out that the Jedi Consular, if DS, could go down in history as the Jedi who killed faster other Jedi.

 

You seem to have an issue with that implication, going so far as to try to distort it.

 

The Consular doesn't even know those other victims exist, all the information you have up to that time is that only the people with a direct personal connection to Parkanas were affected.

 

Untrue, seeing that Parkanas talks of other Jedi being affected, other than the Jedi Masters. Players get to see that when it comes to Duras Fain's daughter.

 

And my criticism of the Jedi Knight is not about the general theme in TOR where 'consequences' rarely exist for PC's, it's how his entire story is one of people falling on their faces at his awesomeness right out of the gate.

 

Which is not the case with the Consular at all, when Yuon Parr, a renowned Jedi Master, claims that the Consular was stronger in the Force as a child than she EVER was as an adolescent.

 

In the first two minutes of the JC story.

 

Syo even admonishes Yuon, for not wanting the Consular to go and retrieve the logs from the old Masters on Tython, claiming it would be too dangerous.

 

The Consular, even a shining paragon Light Side Consular, doesn't get that kind of treatment.

 

It does, as you can see above.

 

As I mentioned before, even the whole 'Barsen'thor' thing, this singular honor not bestowed in thousands of years, comes across as more of an 'Employee of the Month' award for all the ceremony and interest surrounding it. Meanwhile every time the JK sneezes the entire Council convenes to congratulate him.

 

Your bias is so evident it feels kinda embarrassing. No offense.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Andrellma]

For what is worth, the Jedi Knight wasn't exactly consulted or attended the committee that decided the Emperor was truly dead. As such, the Knight shouldn't take the fall for that one.

 

Not to mention that even Darth Marr acknowledges that the Hero of Tython has done more to wound the Emperor than any who came before him.

[jovianus]

I did not say that. Reading attentively usually helps.

I do such when reading your posts; it would be a matter of courtesy to do the same with mine.

And yet again, it would seem you are inclined to ignore what I say, in addition to what the game states; It is something recurring around these parts apparently.

 

Your complaint is that, outside of the cut scenes where it is repeatedly said that the Consular is weakening, that the Consular doesn't seem to show any negative effects from the shielding, even though you acknowledge that we are never actually told anything about the limits of the technique or at what point it becomes dangerous. Only that eventually, after shielding some completely undefined number of people, it is fatal.

 

This is the equivalent of me complaining that JK players should not be allowed to control their character at all for the duration of the time they're under the Emperor's sway.

 

And I am pointing out that the Jedi Consular, if DS, could go down in history as the Jedi who killed faster other Jedi.

You seem to have an issue with that implication, going so far as to try to distort it.

Untrue, seeing that Parkanas talks of other Jedi being affected, other than the Jedi Masters. Players get to see that when it comes to Duras Fain's daughter.

 

Actually, I happen to be doing a consular playthrough and just finished Chapter 1 tonight, so I'd point out that.

 

A. When the Consular suggests the possibility of shielding Parkanas to keep him alive, the Council actually tells them not to take any chances, and are stunned when they find out it worked.

 

B. Yes, after he's defeated and at the Consulars mercy Parkanas claims that there are totally hundreds of other Jedi out there who are going to die if you kill him. He also claims that the shielding technique won't do anything. Can't understand why the Consular isn't totally convinced. Fain's daughter was a special case since, ya know, she was on the verge of death and Parkanas 'healed' her.

 

C. In point of fact, it's explicitly said that killing Parkanas would have destroyed Morrhage, and permanently ended the threat of the plague. Whereas with the LS shielding option Morrhage survives and warns the Consular that he, and the plague, will return.

 

Which is not the case with the Consular at all, when Yuon Parr, a renowned Jedi Master, claims that the Consular was stronger in the Force as a child than she EVER was as an adolescent.

 

In the first two minutes of the JC story.

 

Yes...one Master says the Consular is more powerful in the Force than she was from a young age...compare to the JK being told he is the most powerful Jedi seen in generations, period.

Edited December 19, 2014 by jovianus

[Darth_Wicked]

Your complaint is that, outside of the cut scenes where it is repeatedly said that the Consular is weakening, that the Consular doesn't seem to show any negative effects from the shielding, even though you acknowledge that we are never actually told anything about the limits of the technique or at what point it becomes dangerous. Only that eventually, after shielding some completely undefined number of people, it is fatal.

 

Funny that when I criticize your much beloved Consular, I am not criticizing, but rather complaining.

 

Fairly pitiful behavior. No offense.

 

This is the equivalent of me complaining that JK players should not be allowed to control their character at all for the duration of the time they're under the Emperor's sway.

 

How is that even remotely similar? Makes no sense.

 

The Consular may use the shielding / healing technique out of its own volition, willingly. The Emperor's temporary indoctrination is FORCED upon the Knight.

 

The fact you can't seem to distinguish it is kinda mind boggling.

 

* snip *

 

You seem to be deflecting the issue, namely the mere possibility that the Consular could, hypothetically, go down in history as the greatest Jedi mass murderer in history, in one millisecond.

 

Judging from your earlier posts, plus your rage about the Jedi Knight being a Special Snowflake, while the Consular in fact is NOT -- apparently -- this is not surprising.

 

This, in addition to the fact you claimed that killing "Parkanas" would only kill the Jedi Masters, which was untrue.

 

Yes...one Master says the Consular is more powerful in the Force than she was from a young age...compare to the JK being told he is the most powerful Jedi seen in generations, period.

 

Who says that again?

Edited December 19, 2014 by Darth_Wicked