Lvl 60 hm Fp's too hard?

[Seth_Geco]

Relics in this game since 2.0 have been awful, a 30% or even a 50% chance. once every 20 seconds or 30 seconds.

God awful, waste of a relic space rather have something there that offers a full time stat 100% of the time.

[MadHobbit]

Some people just need to accept they are bad at the game, there's always dailies and tacticals they can do Or they can RP!

 

"Bad" is subjective, I did my first HM SNV last night with a PUG after 3 wipes,after we got past the weekly part I left.

Yes there are new problems to overcome. but this game should be like a snow slope, the beginner,normal, and difficult paths.I like SM ops yes they are easy,but sometimes getting the right PUG is hard.What I don't like is being FORCED to have to do HM,I don't even want to think what is needed for nightmare.While i is nice to be able to do them with normal gear, sometimes it is nice to be a bit over geared, like shooting a rifle ,doing it with just iron sights is great, but some people like to use a scope,does not mean they are bad at it

[Shwarzchild]

Hard mode flashpoints are great where they are at the moment. As many have stated it's a two fold issue people are running into:

 

1) Gear wise, we're back to square 1. With better gear, the ability to do and take damage, and to heal, all increases. Time heals all wounds as they say.

 

2) The mechanics have been changed in the boss fights from the old tacticals to the new hard modes. You can't base these bosses on old tactics anymore. These bosses have, in some cases specific, mechanics that can't e deviated from or else it's a definite wipe. Major Imos is probably the biggest at this point where each person in the group has to know what the mechanics are. If there's one false move, it's a wipe most likely.

 

I'm in full yavin gear with three 192 pieces, and I do feel a strain when healing. It's great though. Before, all I had to do was drop some probes, spam surgical probe, maybe throw a aoe heal down. Now, I need to know what situations my heals are best for. It's no longer autopilot. For a long time I thought that my job as a healer was important, but probably the easiest thing in the game. Now, I have way more involvement in action since I've just got to know what my class is capable of, what situations my powers are best in, and how best to use my resources.

 

I'm still unconvinced that the Major Imos boss is bugged. It was real rough, but my guild group cleared him after maybe 7 tries. After each try we talked about what we were doing, tried new ways to get after him, talked about the mechanics and what they might be now. When we got it, it was great, smooth, and really satisfying. To the posters talking about the Korriban Droid he goes into a burn phase at like 10-15 percent. That wiped us when we went through it twice before we knocked it out (pug group that time). These things now require team work, and knowledge of what your class does. I'm not saying learn 2 play, but I kind of am at the same time in that we do need to relearn certain things about our classes, and we all need ed to learn the tweaks they made to the mechanics. Stick with it, don't get frustrated, and just try to learn something when you wipe. Just know that the level of satisfaction you'll get when you do clear it will be totally worth the frustration you're going through now in the new learning pains portion.

[benficakungfu]

Manaan and rakata was first try to me.havent got queued for korrivban yet, however its really hard to clear anything at all when people dont make the effort to reply in game text also quitting without saying is not helpfull another silly rhing i notice is the group having the same approach that wiped them, cleared manaan and rakata for 2 reasons: one player had the decency of explaining and the other 3 the decency of abiding to advice. Havent done tython because people leave sating "its to hard" this after aggroing every single pack of mobs due to being distracted some people just wanna get carried.

[benficakungfu]

Having some fights in the game everyone can't just faceroll is very nice. Keep them hard. In fact, I wish they'd implement some nightmare FPs.

 

Thats actually a very good idea for those players who stop doing fps because they got boring

[Shwarzchild]

Manaan and rakata was first try to me.havent got queued for korrivban yet, however its really hard to clear anything at all when people dont make the effort to reply in game text also quitting without saying is not helpfull another silly rhing i notice is the group having the same approach that wiped them, cleared manaan and rakata for 2 reasons: one player had the decency of explaining and the other 3 the decency of abiding to advice. Havent done tython because people leave sating "its to hard" this after aggroing every single pack of mobs due to being distracted some people just wanna get carried.

 

It's going to take a while for the community to get into these as a lot of people who group finder content are looking for real quick runs. The old tacticals were basically just leave everyone behind who cares, I can handle this anyway, they'll catch up at some point. Now, people need to use their CCs wisely, work together, and just learn some new stuff. I would hypothesize that there are a lot of people still expecting these to be total walks in the park, and are just ignoring everything else but the old claim that these "used to be easy". I could be wrong though. I'm usually more wrong than right on a daily basis so that's definitely a possibility.

[ImanolValentine]

It's fault of us, awesome tanks, that made old fps look so freaking easy that now that we can't handle the damage some players see they're not that easy and complain because they see they may have to practise and improve and learn things

[Cidgarrillo]

It's just a change.

 

People used to fight easy content and get overgeared easily. That forced a lot of tiers of gear to keep the players "wanting something". Now, instead of playing to get overgeared the devs probably want us to "improve ourselfs" and focus on clear the content and take it as a challenge.

 

-Most good player find the new content "hard" but low rewarding. Still, they will be able to farm at will.

-Most average players find the new content really hard. And they should struggle to clear it and find the succes as the reward. They will eventually become good players. Improving the sensation of self-realization

-Most bad players find the new content impossible and not rewarding at all. But, eventually, they will want to fight harder content, and then, they will find the new hm fps possible and hard. They will eventually become average players.

 

 

I guess they changed the idea of "reward in becoming stronge with gear" to "reward in becoming stronger as player". But maybe I'm mistaken and they will just patch it and make it easier.

 

I still find, playing the game as the devs want you to play it is usually the best way to enjoy it.

[midianlord]

It's fault of us, awesome tanks, that made old fps look so freaking easy that now that we can't handle the damage some players see they're not that easy and complain because they see they may have to practise and improve and learn things

 

Funny you should mention that...

 

I just added another "awesome tank" to my ignore-list. (r/DPS + inveterate PuG dungeon-crawler, by the way, so I'm well aware of the ramifications, I assure you.)

 

Dropping the group in the middle of a boss fight leaving the other three to die just because you can't faceroll it is pretty *********** pathetic, even by the utterly laughable standards of SW: tOR's PuG-community.

 

Sorry, I know you're being facetious, but my respect for tanks is now absolute zero, especially after a few additional months of healing these people.

 

This new content is hard.

 

This is good, and long past due.

 

The real problem is that this community is not even close to worthy of it.

[BlueShiftRecall]

Funny you should mention that...

 

I just added another "awesome tank" to my ignore-list. (r/DPS + inveterate PuG dungeon-crawler, by the way, so I'm well aware of the ramifications, I assure you.)

 

Dropping the group in the middle of a boss fight leaving the other three to die just because you can't faceroll it is pretty *********** pathetic, even by the utterly laughable standards of SW: tOR's PuG-community.

 

Sorry, I know you're being facetious, but my respect for tanks is now absolute zero, especially after a few additional months of healing these people.

 

This new content is hard.

 

This is good, and long past due.

 

The real problem is that this community is not even close to worthy of it.

 

 

I’m afraid to say this is the case for a lot of people (tanks, DPS’s and healers all included) at the moment who seem to think that if they wipe or die even just once then the team sucks and they leave (leaving mid boss fight is pretty low though). Don't put all tanks into the same group though the majority of them are great it's just always a select few giving others a bad name.

 

Had a 16m SM Ravagers PUG and we today got past first boss no issue and just like last week when I did this after we wiped once on the second boss we had about 5 people including one tank leave after the FIRST wipe, not after five wipes, not after ten wipes just one. The group once again fell apart and once again I am locked out to second boss because some people can’t seem to handle that this is new, it’s hard and wipes are going to happen when 99% of the group are new to it. I hate to stereotype but these are probably the same people who at 55 in 180-186 gear would waltz into a HM 50 Esseles and bad mouth the newer players.

Edited December 13, 2014 by BlueShiftRecall

[Tiffanitte]

They sure are challenging, give it that. Groups I had, failed in Korr on second boss, then in Manaan, couldn't get past first boss, but Rakata, cleared the whole thing. Wow! 2 hours later... Basic comms per boss, and in the end a huge repair bill and one lousy 192 ear piece that wasn't even for my class.

 

Basic comms per boss make no sense in those, not very motivating. However, elite comms still drop off each boss in 55HM's, and those 55HM's still contribute the level 60 weekly. So, I been 2 manning 55HM's all week with my friend. Easy Elites, easy gear. Plus, like I said, still counts towards the Level 60 [Hard Mode] weekly 0/3. All that trouble in Rakata, took a long time, couple hours, to be greeted with basic comms which I dont need, and one lousy 192 ear piece off the last boss, tons of repair money, a lot aggravation, and too much time. To spite the gear requirement being 178 blues like it says, even 186 isn't high enough for 60 HM FPs. Maybe 192's will be better, but if you have a full 192 set, why even bother? You can get ultimates in OPS then cause you already geared for em.

 

I say, for now do 55HMs, get elites per boss, credit for the Weekly, and hell with the 60HM's. Not worth it.

[Ricky-Fast-Slash]

One thing that makes getting these FP's done is people being deceived by the gear rating number. If a tank is in full Yavin gear they are doing it wrong, as if you get 180 optimized gear the mitigation is still better by far. Tank need to remember mitigation > endurance. I cleared HM Mannan yesterday with a pug group with 2 wipes, once on the second boss because I was told to tank it in the corner which was a fail due to people getting caught on the corners, and then on the final boss as it had 1% hp when the timer ran out. The first boss is just really tedious and boring, put your back to a wall and hold aggro on everything and rotate cool-downs as needed, while dps constantly switch targets. The content isn't all that hard, on the first pull if you die don't return to med-center watch the rest of the fight to see any mechanics that you are missing. We have guildies working on guides with two complete, links below.

 

Korriban_HM

RakataPrime_HM

[psandak]

I'll grant that HM Rakata Prime is the (supposedly) easiest of the new HMFPs, but I just finished it with two DPS and myself as healer and Treek (my companion) as tank. Long story short the tank rage quit after one of the DPS AOEd a CCed mob that did not need to be CCed. And after the fact we realized the tank we had was not very good.

 

We were all in 180+ gear. We took it slow, using all the CC at our disposal (my tranq and slice droid and the commando's universal CC). We communicated with each other and we won. that is not to say we did not struggle. we wiped once on trash, I died several times, the sentinel died twice, but we kept on truckin'.

 

The point is that with intelligence, calm communication, and quality execution nothing is too hard.

Edited December 13, 2014 by psandak

[Jonnybreet]

It seems to me it depends on who you are in the group with. I've done several with guildies and friends and it went by flawlessly but difficult which is exactly what I wanted with HM FPs in SoR as a healer. However I have tried to do a couple where I queue solo and it didn't end up so well. So to my experience it is all depending on the communication and the skill level of the players you're playing with in the group.

[BlackEyeArtistry]

I play dps and the only one I have gotten through is Korriban. On all the others the healer is not able to keep up with the damage.

[ojciecmatki]

I will be talking about republic flashpoint.

I know people keep saying that we used to play FP HMs with really good gear but I think this FPs are too hard/boring. The req is if i remember correctly 178.. well thats just lie. Most of bosses in those FPs are dps rush (or u can spend 30 minutes to kill first boss on manaan or you wont be able to kill last one). I was able to finish those FPs with random people (guildies have atleast 186) ONLY when I played 186/192 dps and we have atleast 2 other people with 186... They took dmg from lvl55 players but I think they forget that 60 FPs will be harder. Some bonus bosses(rakata, korriban) are unkillable with those gear simply because you ran out of time with dps and you die (or you die cause you dont have enough hp - manaan). Not to mention you also have HUGE random effect that will decide of your win (e.g tython 2nd boss - he chooses random person to stab from 4 people not 4,3,2,1.. in the end one person can be stabbed 3 times in row without being able to heal himself cause medpack will be on CD). Whats even worse the bosses have those boring phases that requires to do the same stuff for next 10-15 minutes (again maanan but also korriban and tython). I mean cmon If I am able to do 3 times in row same phase why I have to do it even more times? (yeah I know some ops bosses have pretty similar thing but usually they have last phase that kills or not ) The reward is really poor for the time you spent on that flashpoints. I think those flashpoints requires atleast 186 gear not 178 simply because dps won't do enough dmg, tank won't tank enough, heal won't heal enough etc. The only boss that I think is "good" is 1st on tython, you have 3 phases not phase every 1 minute or sth like that and it actually requires cordination of your team.

 

Imo the only fairly balanced flashpoint is Rakata (where bosses are not in Xminutes loop) meaby korriban without 2nd boss (if you end up with 178 dps, u might quit) s . Rest simply is russian roulette.

 

And add lag issue to all of this - have fun

Edited December 14, 2014 by ojciecmatki

[midianlord]

The rewards definitely need to be bumped up for the individual bosses.

 

I mean, Basics? Really? The ****, man...

 

The content itself, I'm fine with. It's certainly "very difficult," but in no way shape or form is it "too difficult:"

 

We just have to learn the mechanics and gear up from square one again, just like we did at the beginning of 2.[X].

 

And yes, I've had some success with these with PuGs too, it just requires a higher quality of PuG than has been the norm of late.

 

The rage-bailing kiddie-tank who's only in it for his own faster queue-pop, and that frigging Marau-duuuurrrrr who has no conception of CC-discipline will be punished harshly here.

 

Again, this is long overdue in this game, they need to do this more often;

 

Keeps people sharp, and keeps the bads away: Sometimes, the herd needs culling, and no two ways around it.

Edited December 14, 2014 by midianlord

[RobRuckus]

I think they are pretty fun compared to the laughably easy tacticals they are night and day though... My first hardmode was legacy of rakata I hit 60 got full 186 and a piece of 192 except my relics which are both 162 basic com ones... well the tank told the one dps to watch his aoe it was breaking cc's he raged decided to stay in teh party but leave the flashpoint to force us to kick him so he wouldnt get the gf lock penalty... well me an io merc a tank and healer face off against the first boss... beat it no one died we finally kicked the player adn got a new one died on teh last boss becasue the dumb wookie did somehting dumb but beat it after that wasnt too bad... korriban incursion was next nothing hard plowed through it... manaan first group wiped several times just to trash tank kept breaking cc and the healer couldnt keep up. we beat the first boss and the tank left on the second we kept telling him to just stay still but nope filled the entire room with water.... second group we wiped on the bosses none of us had done it but we eventually figured it all out and beat it after having a healer quit... im fine with their difficulty I am not fine with the drops they are freaking terrible... doing the story missions they load you up with basic coms even on a toon I didnt farm coms on before the expansion dropped I got enough coms to almost get full 186 gear so i dont understand why the bosses all dont drop a piece of 192 and an elite com or drop the crap gear with elite coms. Ive done quite a few of them now and I have not gotten one piece of equipment from it I feel like im doing them for no reason other than the daily rewards... plus I have to sit in que for at least 30 minutes but usually about an hour to even get into one on my dps.. .I think they are fun dont get me wrong its just a bit frustrating put all this time into them to have only hand full of basic coms and barely more elites than you get form doing a daily tactical which are insultingly easy. I thought it was just the droid that made it easy in the solo version but no in a group I still one hit the standard trash... rant over.... they are pretty fun though after all tat being said figuring out how to beat manaan had my heart rate rise... im new to this game btw started playing a little under a month ago and with the 12x xp I got to 55 did some tacticals thought they were too easy tried the hardmode 55's and thought they were still too easy... havent done any ops yet sadly they always ask for an achieve that you already beat it if you try to pug even the 2 new ops nobody wants to take the time to describe a fight to somebody new and just label you as a bad...the guild I am in is suposedly going to start trying the content soon so hopefully I can try it then...

[RubiconJoshG]

On the main topic, I think the difficulty is just right. I have completed two of them and got to the last boss on a third. The only thing that bothers me is the bonus boss loot and the shield bug on the Tython FP.

 

havent done any ops yet sadly they always ask for an achieve that you already beat it if you try to pug even the 2 new ops nobody wants to take the time to describe a fight to somebody new and just label you as a bad...the guild I am in is suposedly going to start trying the content soon so hopefully I can try it then...

 

I have found the opposite to be true since the new content release. I have had some awesome PUG groups for level 60 HM flashpoints and ops. I can't say that I have seen anyone advertising an op group an requiring an achievement for an invite lately. Maybe NiM for old content, but SM for new content doesn't make sense.

 

I have a suggestion for you, if you join a group and they post a link to a TS or mumble server, join it. I was in a PUG Ravagers group last night and 11/16 of us were on TS, it was very friendly. Most of us had never done it before and we wiped a lot, but no one rage quit or got upset. The 5 not on TS probably did not have as good of a time as those of us talking on TS trying to figure out how to beat the bosses. We ended up beating the first two bosses, wiped about 6 times on the third boss and we were not close to killing him so we called it.

Edited December 14, 2014 by RubiconJoshG

[HunterJoseph]

Just wow...

 

I read most of the posts in this thread, and from what I can tell people are sadly confused, but before I start, let me just say that I have cleared all of the HM FPs with pug groups.

 

First of all the recommended gear for the HM FPs is 148 (check the GF queue), i don't know where you all are getting 178 from, but that is just outright wrong.

 

So working from the actual recommended gear rating in the game, these FPs are completely impossible to run. And also if the recommended gear rating is 148, and we are all running in 186 gear, then the FPs should be WAY easier than they currently are.

 

It is clearly obvious that the first boss on Assault on Tython is super bugged and needs to be addressed, as well as the damage done by strong level enemies. We ran Manaan, and every elite enemy in there barely did any damage at all, while every strong enemy nearly wiped us. This goes for all the FPs, but Manaan was the one we really noticed it on.

 

On top of this, the rewards are clearly meaningless as we are all running in 186 gear, with some 192 obtained from the vendor as Mk-1s, but the drops are 192 MK-2s which have the same stats?!?!?!?, and why would you run in the recommended 148 so the FP can drop 192????

 

I have no problem with them being hard or difficult, what I have a problem with is them being broken to the point that no one wants to play them.

[Frenesi]

Tython is fairly terrible. With current level of lag, it's really hard to avoid AOE, especially since it doesn't have clear marked border.

[MysteryJoker]

As a Sorc Healer, here's my thought on these HM's: USE CC! Your carebear mode aka trashmode aka "tactical" mode taught you absolutely nothing about the FP. USE CC. Stop BREAKING CC. And ffs dps, (yes, Dps, you are almost 70% of the time the problem), focus the damn tank's target. There's one tank role. Not three. No, you will never get priority healing over the tank. End of story.

 

"But you're supposed to heal us through the damage!"

 

A healer with half or more 192's will not be able to heal you if: you stand in **** you're not supposed to, pretend to be a tank if you're not, heal 8-12k dps damage across the board because you thought it was a smart idea to break CC or jump into a group without any CC.

 

These... are hard modes... In reality, they're normal modes. Use tactics. Use a bit of strategy and maybe... just maybe these will be a breeze to get through as... they already are.

[Vase]

The problem is not tactics or CC. Its the raw damage to healing output. DPs is close to what I would expect. Everyone including full 186 augmented tanks are way to squishy. Its just not fun to wipe 20 times spending hours doing a flash point. If you want a challenging mode then they can make some night mare flash points. Don't make the entry level group finder flash points where fully geared people cant finish it. I am happy that some people are able to complete them but be honest how long did it take and how many wipes did you have? No thanks for me.

[CrashOmega]

Hello,

 

I did my first L60 HM few days ago in full 178 (just followed the recommandation from the game) with my assassin tank.

 

First of all, my other comrades have as much as PV than me (or even more). (I did Manaan, Typhon and Rakata).

 

As the tank, I don't die very much but in case of any failure (cc break, cc fail) I was sure to die first. (I can't imagine to do that sort of FP with only one CC player).

 

I think that all the trash mobs do way more damage than the bosses them self.

 

My personal feeling after that is I don't particulary enjoy to be so squishy with the trash mobs. I remember the last 2 packs before the final boss in rakata. I died in each of this pack. (I don't know why well, I just see my live drop from 100% to 0% in 1s or 2s after the start of the fight).

 

I suspect that some "silver" mobs do way more damage than "gold" mobs in some FP.

 

My conclusion after that: I will do my weekly (3 FP HM) and than stop. Probably with better gears, these FP will be more enjoyable for me. (less squishy). Or maybe with another tank class, I can better resist the trash mobs.

[RobRuckus]

The problem is not tactics or CC. Its the raw damage to healing output. DPs is close to what I would expect. Everyone including full 186 augmented tanks are way to squishy. Its just not fun to wipe 20 times spending hours doing a flash point. If you want a challenging mode then they can make some night mare flash points. Don't make the entry level group finder flash points where fully geared people cant finish it. I am happy that some people are able to complete them but be honest how long did it take and how many wipes did you have? No thanks for me.

 

In complete honesty my fierst hardmode was legacy of rakata we wiped 2 times 1 we were mising a dps and a walking elite messed up our pull.... second wipe dumb wookie killed arkous while we were whittling down the other dude,,, korriban incursion firrst time ever doing it no wipes second time doing it we wiped several times on the second boss the one dps kept running into mines and wasting the healers time after that dps left we did it no problem....havent done tython yet the group finder wont give it to me... now manaan... first time there we made it all the way to the second boss with no wipes... .wiped on second boss we discussed hwo to beat it the tank did not listen we wiped again... then teh tank is like you guys suck and left then we just disbanded the group...second time there made it to second boss fine no wipes then wipe on second boss talk abotu a plan make some changes still wipe then we got it down and beat it... make it to third boss wipe probably 6 times healer left we get a new one wipe 2 or 3 more times or ran out of time then we finally got it... our problem was when teh adds came out they would pretty much insta kill anyone they went near and even though we were all in full 186 and the one dps was auged out we were having a hard time damaging the boss liek you ahve to get him in the fire imediaeatly every single time or time runs out.... then an item that none of us could use dropped after all that we were all pretty irate but I liked the feeling of teamwork we had... it did make me question my io merc though its my favorite class adn discipline but not being able to take down that last boss even though everythign else has been pretty easy or just slightly challenging really made me second guess my ability on him it did the same to the other dps that was in the group... ive also seen healers freak out because they just cant keep up with the standard damage that everyone is taking even with everyone staying out of floor hazards.... oh yea a pro tip in manaan kill the snipers as fast as possible and stun them or people will die they one hit a dps and can tear through a tank with relative ease... and cc is definitely your best friend in manaan its doable without it been through that but its a lot easier with cc's... I dont care what anyone here says about oh they are too easy still the other ones Ill agree they arent bad but manaan is hardcore the mobs hit insanely hard and the boss battles are all rough even knowing the mechanics and being decently geared... Ive played alot of content in alot of mmos heroic dungeons and raids in wow. guild wars dungeons guild wars 2 dungeons and many other games and hardmode depths of manaan is by far the most hardcore "dungeon" I have ever done Ive never seen tanks insta die from trash mobs even in heroic raids in wow... its a good feeling when you finally do beat it and its fun when you are about to kil lthe boss but man it is not for a casual player by any means I really think there should eb another fp category between the tacticals and hardmodes since the tacticals are a joke Ive had the entire party die on a boss(no idea how) except me and they tell em to die but instead I finish the fight becasue with teh gsi healing things and the pathetic damage output of the bosses the new tacticals are pretty much soloable... and the way they are set up there is no emphasis on teamwork or strategy its just a rushed frenzy of people trying to ge to the end fastest... this does nothign to prepare you for the hardmode fp... I think it would be way better to turn the tacticals into liek a normal mode dungeon with a normal party upthe difficulty to match a tank and healer and that will solve alot of the problems with the hardmodes being too hard and it will also mean more peopel would play tanks and healers since more of them would be needed....