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What it would take...(SoR spoilers)


Suspecticide

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Okay, after the ending (which i found satisfactory yet predictable) I have thought hard and long about what it would take for Bioware to redeem themselves after "The Butchering" (heh) of Revan's story. A couple of possible endings would have to be placed in the next story arc for me to feel as though his story has sufficiently wrapped up. I think these ideas are relatively interesting, (from my point of view at least) but i'd like to hear input if you like the ideas. Keep in mind this is speaking from the speculation that Revan became Whole in the end and still seeks to help the player find some way to defeat the emperor as a spirit. Also take note that this post is focused on ideas for the Sith inquisitor and Revan's story as a whole, not any of the other classes. Forgive me if this sounds half assed or childish, it's 3 am and I'm half asleep

 

Number 1 (Dark Side). Being a Sith Inquisitor myself I would ask that we get the option to bind Revan's spirit and use his power to defeat the Emperor, or something of similar effect, maybe taking over the Empire with the new power or something if bioware intends it to be the absolute finale of the Swtor story.

 

Number 2 (Neutral). This one was tough, I had thought perhaps there would be some way the Inquisitor could find perfect balance as Revan did in his prime and finish the job that Revan started by following his path (or something of that effect, perhaps gaining a new understanding of his own power and connection to spirits, or learning some new ability or something).

 

Number 3 (Light Side). This, i think would be the most satisfying ending (especially for the die hard Kotor fans out there like myself who loved the Revan but wish he never had to die in the first place >.>) In this possible ending, Revan's spirit and Darth Imperius face the Emperor directly, Imperius makes some remark to the emperor about how he used the entire Empire (and galaxy) as a means to an end, then something about how "My chains are broken and the force shall free me" in the sith code is a reference to the Emperor using the Empire for his own goals. Imperius then argues that the Empire has the right idea but needs to divert away from the vicious part of it (Like in Azshara's conversations about reforming the Empire.) Revan would then say something about how the Emperor is super powerful and cant be beaten alone (Typical Hero banter). Then lends Imperius the remains of his energy fusing with Imperius. (i kind of imagine Revan and the inquisitors voice on top of one another or perhaps Revan momentarily taking control of the Inquisitors body to finish his work.) Fight ensues, yada yada, Imperius is now powerful from the super hero team-up ( xD ) and uses the power to defeat the emperor, Revan would then decide to stay with Imperius after his defeat, saying Imperius could put his power to better use than he ever could, and then Revan fades, and becomes one with the force entirely.

 

Satisfying ideas? Anything to add? Please tell me, i'd love to hear some input.

Edited by Suspecticide
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At least for myself who mains an inquisitor and has the background/story of the class as one of my favorites (some can say what they will of that I guess), it'd be cool in concept as an idea especially given that in some cases it could be argued that eventually becoming a replacement of the Emperor would fit well with the inquisitor story and may even be a possible or likely end long down the road.

 

That being said though, it seems like something that Bioware could only do if the inquisitor was the only player character in the game...I can only imagine the blowback they'd get if they had only one of the classes out of a possible eight be the one to bind/free/give Revan a complete and final conclusion. They had enough complaints when originally only the SI received a Darth title and the SW didn't.

 

So yea, I think it'd be interesting as a SI player and it even could mesh well with my own head story I sometimes do for my character, but with it being the type of game it is it seems like it'd be a far reach for them to make outside of a single player game, at least in my view.

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Your light side ending seems very neutral to me, beside in my opinion light SI would put benefit as second if not first priority.

There are two possibilities there (only talking about light side).

It will either be an operation which is team up all the heroes (may be even from both sides) and several npc to fight Emperor.

If it is a solo mission, then It would be big boost on the power level or make a sacrifice , or both since you are going to fight such powerful being. SI wont fight alone certainly, there will be Revan and few others. The option around Darth Imperius should be focus on maintain the power of the Empire not personal. You can still bind Revan as a light side choice if Revan agree to do that. But that will leave a problem to other class since they don't have that kind of ability. And I believe if Bioware allow you to do that, there will be a big cost on doing so as your body may not be able to with hold such power. It could be a light side choice which SI need to make a desperate move to save the Empire and he/she decide to make a self-sacrifice making his/her body as vessel to hold great power in order to defeat the Emperor. It could make very dangerous at that time and might get killed, but in the end SI could still manage to survive somehow.

My idea right now is, since my SI is completely light sided, at the beginning Empire and Republic try fight Emperor by their own. And got defeated or at least mess up. The Emporer's force is too powerful and eventually sacrificed a world to regain his physical form somewhere during the story. The first part of the story, SI possibility run though different planets to regroup the remaining forces and stable the defense line. Then the Emperor make his return and SI and many others believe they cannot fight alone. And SI need to persuade others to make another alliance with the Republic. There will be some in-fight and conversations , and may be kill some sith in process, and meet some Republic guy in the end (Theron should be one of them). And then SI take the fight to the hands and Imperial Guards. Though FP and OP SI barely beat them. SI believes they cannot beat the Emperor with the power they have right now. So SI need to decide how he/she get the power. It will either be a dark side choice which will involve killing and sacrifice other people, or a light side choice. May be involve searching knowledge and so on. After that, SI need to get a device which could destroy the Emperor completely. And then with help from Revan , SI face the Emperor. Then upon using the device here comes a problem which may involve sacrifice on the user. My SI will decide to do it without sacrificing other people, and kill the Emperor. SI thinks he/she would go down with him, but survived somehow.

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Honestly if any one class fights the emperor by itself it'll be the Jedi Knight (bioware kinda owes that to JK players) I imagine though if and when the emperor is delt with it'll be in a major storyline and not in any class specific one so I'd not expect tos ee force walking or anything like that mentioned
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Okay, after the ending (which i found satisfactory yet predictable) I have thought hard and long about what it would take for Bioware to redeem themselves after "The Butchering" (heh) of Revan's story. A couple of possible endings would have to be placed in the next story arc for me to feel as though his story has sufficiently wrapped up. I think these ideas are relatively interesting, (from my point of view at least) but i'd like to hear input if you like the ideas. Keep in mind this is speaking from the speculation that Revan became Whole in the end and still seeks to help the player find some way to defeat the emperor as a spirit. Also take note that this post is focused on ideas for the Sith inquisitor and Revan's story as a whole, not any of the other classes. Forgive me if this sounds half assed or childish, it's 3 am and I'm half asleep

 

Number 1 (Dark Side). Being a Sith Inquisitor myself I would ask that we get the option to bind Revan's spirit and use his power to defeat the Emperor, or something of similar effect, maybe taking over the Empire with the new power or something if bioware intends it to be the absolute finale of the Swtor story.

 

Number 2 (Neutral). This one was tough, I had thought perhaps there would be some way the Inquisitor could find perfect balance as Revan did in his prime and finish the job that Revan started by following his path (or something of that effect, perhaps gaining a new understanding of his own power and connection to spirits, or learning some new ability or something).

 

Number 3 (Light Side). This, i think would be the most satisfying ending (especially for the die hard Kotor fans out there like myself who loved the Revan but wish he never had to die in the first place >.>) In this possible ending, Revan's spirit and Darth Imperius face the Emperor directly, Imperius makes some remark to the emperor about how he used the entire Empire (and galaxy) as a means to an end, then something about how "My chains are broken and the force shall free me" in the sith code is a reference to the Emperor using the Empire for his own goals. Imperius then argues that the Empire has the right idea but needs to divert away from the vicious part of it (Like in Azshara's conversations about reforming the Empire.) Revan would then say something about how the Emperor is super powerful and cant be beaten alone (Typical Hero banter). Then lends Imperius the remains of his energy fusing with Imperius. (i kind of imagine Revan and the inquisitors voice on top of one another or perhaps Revan momentarily taking control of the Inquisitors body to finish his work.) Fight ensues, yada yada, Imperius is now powerful from the super hero team-up ( xD ) and uses the power to defeat the emperor, Revan would then decide to stay with Imperius after his defeat, saying Imperius could put his power to better use than he ever could, and then Revan fades, and becomes one with the force entirely.

 

Satisfying ideas? Anything to add? Please tell me, i'd love to hear some input.

 

 

Agreement: I do agree that, even though Revan's story ended in a very pleasing manner, he should now have a hand in defeating the Emperor, but indirectly. It just doesn't feel completely right not having Revan defeat the Emperor in some manner. Again, if not, I'm satisfied with how things turned out. But I feel that it needs some closure, and leaving Revan out of the end doesn't feel right. It's like instead of Anakin killing Palpatine like he's supposed to, he dies on Mustafar and some other Jedi does it (not necessarily Luke).

 

Suggestion: I say that Revan should have a helping hand in defeating the Emperor. At the very least, indirectly as a Force Spirit by guiding the Empire and Republic to victory. Or even have him and the Exile (maybe even Alek(along with whatever living Jedi/Sith)) shield the heroes of the Republic/Empire from the Emperor's power on whatever planet they go to to either find some ancient Jedi/Sith artifact that will either permanently bind or destroy the Emperor, or to defeat the Emperor for good (yeah, I know, that's just like Oricon).

 

Added Suggestion: Or even something to drain Viciate's power so that Revan can defeat him as a Force Ghost. But I don't see that happening.

 

Opinion: Right now it feels like someone picked up your favorite item to look at it and *snap* "Oops. I broke it." Now that item has been glued back together, and it's now no longer the same. If Revan could have a hand in defeating the Emperor (again at the very LEAST indirectly), it would be like fixing that item and it be no different than it was before it was broken.

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Honestly if any one class fights the emperor by itself it'll be the Jedi Knight (bioware kinda owes that to JK players) I imagine though if and when the emperor is delt with it'll be in a major storyline and not in any class specific one so I'd not expect tos ee force walking or anything like that mentioned

 

 

Unlike the Sith Warrior, the Jedi Knight was not even eligible to be taunted by the Emperor at the end of the expansion. Given previous events, I find that disheartening but whatever.

 

You'd think the Emperor would hold something akin to a grudge, assuming that's possible in his case. :p

 

Edited by Darth_Wicked
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Unlike the Sith Warrior, the Jedi Knight was not even eligible to be taunted by the Emperor at the end of the expansion. Given previous events, I find that disheartening but whatever.

 

You'd think the Emperor would hold something akin to a grudge, assuming that's possible in his case. :p

 

 

tbh i have a huge inkling that it will end with the SW fighting the Emperor like the JK did. and then maybe his "true form" as a raid boss" for 4.0

 

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as for revan being key to beating the emperor. I dunno. I honestly am not sure he should. ultimatly the guy arrogantly assumed he was destined to defeat the emperor but he's tried and failed FOUR TIMES, I find myself suspecting he's not quite as "chosen" as he likes to think
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as for revan being key to beating the emperor. I dunno. I honestly am not sure he should. ultimatly the guy arrogantly assumed he was destined to defeat the emperor but he's tried and failed FOUR TIMES, I find myself suspecting he's not quite as "chosen" as he likes to think

 

Being in stasis for 300 years, while sharing a mental bunk with the Emperor sure grants him dibs. :p

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Being in stasis for 300 years, while sharing a mental bunk with the Emperor sure grants him dibs. :p

 

Just because Revan had a wedding ring doesn't mean the Emperor accepted. Guys been stalker crazy. Hell, he even admits he was a madman.

 

No, OP, BioWare did not butcher Revan's character. You should read up on his history instead of relying solely on the one time you play him as evidence of his goddness.

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Just because Revan had a wedding ring doesn't mean the Emperor accepted. Guys been stalker crazy. Hell, he even admits he was a madman.

 

No, OP, BioWare did not butcher Revan's character. You should read up on his history instead of relying solely on the one time you play him as evidence of his goddness.

 

TL;DR I think the feeling of 'butchering of the story' comes from the lack of closure or anything other than failure for a beloved character. The 300 years of abuse the character received gave Revan a damn good reason for revenge, and set the stage for an epic showdown when he was freed, but instead it ended in not only utter defeat and insult/regret/shame/humiliation/sadness etc for Revan. , but to add further insult to an already insulted injury, it wasn't even from the Emperor himself, but from some outsiders to the whole Revan-Emperor conflict, and the Emperor is revived just in time to gloat over a dying and broken Revan.

 

Wouldn't you be a little stalker crazy if some guy captured you and tortured you for 300 years, and you knew who this guy was and where he lived? Revan may have been driven crazy by the Emperor, but he was completely justified for having a want for revenge.

 

To me, and possibly others, the whole situation is like a big **** tease. I mean with Revan you have a character who is beloved by many fans (due to him being the protagonist of a beloved game) be in direct mental and physical conflict with (presumably) the most powerful force user in the galaxy alive at this time for 300+ years, basically defining his existence for the majority of his life, and is finally freed from the Republic he used to serve oh so long ago, amasses a huge power base, and attempts to achieve a final act of revenge against a weakened and imprisoned Emperor (how the tables have turned), leading to what could potentially be an ultimate showdown of epic proportions...... only for the whole situation to end in not only an utter failure and a huge "**** you, you failed" from said Force User as Revan dies in utter defeat, but in addition, adding insult to injury, this is before Revan could even properly face the Emperor, being denied the closure he so desperately wanted (and deserved) by a bunch of meddling relative strangers to the conflict, living just long enough to have his ultimate foe be revived in front of him, because of him, and taunting him as he takes his dying breath. :(

 

The only closure you could say he gets is him "returning to his true self", curing his Dissociative Identity Disorder.... but a fat lot of good it does him if he's now dead and the Emperor's beat him and every turn and escaped totally alive and well... This piece of closure is ultimately meaningless as his existence and life has become a cruel joke... his whole life he was essentially just a tool and plaything for the Emperor... (Again, this would have been more swallow-able had Revan in the end received any form of closure or revenge.)

 

When you create a character who becomes beloved by many fans, and then subject him to 300 years of torture, have him emerge a broken and crazy form of his past self, yet free and determined to enact his revenge against his captor, you have yourself a great story, ready for an ultimate showdown. However, when this ends in absolute and utter defeat with no redeeming aspects, providing 0 closure or any sense of accomplishment to said beloved character, you will have disappointed fans.

 

Was I (and possibly others) hoping for Revan to single handedly beat the Emperor? Of course not. But could we not have gotten a little bit of a nicer sendoff for the guy? Could we have him feel something other than total despair, regret, and shame as he brings an end to a brutal 300+ year conflict? Could we have him, in the end, finally achieve *some* victory, even a little one? Even if not that, could we *at least* give him the closure of facing the Emperor in one final, epic duel, even if he were to be defeated in it, that would give me some sense of closure to his story, as he was defeated by the person he was *actually trying* to fight. :p

 

Assuming this is the end and we won't ever see Revan again in any *significant* role, I am a little disappointed, to say the least. One of the tests I use to tell whether I like or dislike a piece of fiction is if I felt I could have written it better, (a feeling I don't often feel in SWTOR), however with Revan's end, I can't help but receive this telltale feeling... And for Revan, no less. Poor, poor Revan. :(

Edited by Swissbob
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<snip>

 

not to point out the obvious but the expansion just started. And honestly, Revan's arc is quite closed. It was closed since The Foundry. They are just making it more permanent now. Ghosts should not be overshadowing our characters, and that's all Revan was, a ghost before he became a ghost.

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And honestly, Revan's arc is quite closed. It was closed since The Foundry. They are just making it more permanent now. Ghosts should not be overshadowing our characters, and that's all Revan was, a ghost before he became a ghost.

 

I understand his arc is/was closed. I have no issue with that in and of itself, in fact I desire that. :)

 

I'm also not asking for him to overshadow the characters, as of course, SWTOR is the story primarily of the 8 PC's. :)

 

I just wish Revan's story ended with a less insulting and depressing finish for the character itself. I'm completely okay if that story was expressed through something as small as codex entry, or as big as a separate game/book, or anything in between (side quest, flashpoint, operation, or a whole expansion as we got), as long as the story itself was a good one. I was just expressing my wish that it was a more satisfying story for Revan that gave him some sense of closure to the 300+ year battle he was fighting with Vitiate. :(

 

not to point out the obvious but the expansion just started.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this...? It was just released, and as soon as you finish the content in it it's technically over... So what do you mean it's just started? At first I thought you were implying that they were going to release additional content to further the story of Revan, so I shouldn't be too quick to judge, but you immediately counter that saying Revan's story is completely and totally over. So.... What exactly did you mean by this in response to my post?:confused:

Edited by Swissbob
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I understand his arc is/was closed. I have no issue with that in and of itself, in fact I desire that. :)

 

I'm also not asking for him to overshadow the characters, as of course, SWTOR is the story primarily of the 8 PC's. :)

 

I just wish Revan's story ended with a less insulting and depressing finish for the character itself. I'm completely okay if that story was expressed through something as small as codex entry, or as big as a separate game/book, or anything in between (side quest, flashpoint, operation, or a whole expansion as we got), as long as the story itself was a good one. I was just expressing my wish that it was a more satisfying story for Revan that gave him some sense of closure to the 300+ year battle he was fighting with Vitiate. :(

 

 

Revan was a madman, long before the Emperor, he even admits his plans were madness. Revan also admitted he was not the one destined to take on the Emperor and it was his hubris that led him to believe so. he had a good closure, I think you are just projecting more, and clinging to the one only good point in his history. Revan was a butcher and psychotic, even as a Jedi, before his memory was wiped, and when he regained that, he proceeded to enact a campaign of genocide believing he was the only one capable of saving the Galaxy, his hubris got the best of him. He finally came to peace with himself at the end, and thus has rejoined with his dark half to find balance in the Force, and realized it was a mistake to break away. You couldn't ask for a better closure of the character, or they could go the WoW route and tell you your characters were worthless the whole time while the big bads get Jesus beamed by a character wearing tons of plot armor and has been happening since Wrath.

 

Honestly I don't know what you consider good because it was a good story, and gave a good and proper ending for his character that satisfies both arguments on Revan's character.

 

 

 

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this...? It was just released, and as soon as you finish the content in it it's technically over... So what do you mean it's just started? At first I thought you were implying that they were going to release additional content to further the story of Revan, so I shouldn't be too quick to judge, but you immediately counter that saying Revan's story is completely and totally over. So.... What exactly did you mean by this in response to my post?:confused:

 

There is more story to come, I seriously doubt the plans forward, much like with Hutt Cartel, solely rest on just this one arc and done. It might not be big additions but things like new flashpoints or operations will undoubtedly come about that will add more to the over all story of this, and we still have to contend with the remnants of Revan's madness.

Edited by Silverspar
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Revan was a madman, long before the Emperor, he even admits his plans were madness. Revan also admitted he was not the one destined to take on the Emperor and it was his hubris that led him to believe so. he had a good closure, I think you are just projecting more, and clinging to the one only good point in his history. Revan was a butcher and psychotic, even as a Jedi, before his memory was wiped, and when he regained that, he proceeded to enact a campaign of genocide believing he was the only one capable of saving the Galaxy, his hubris got the best of him. He finally came to peace with himself at the end, and thus has rejoined with his dark half to find balance in the Force, and realized it was a mistake to break away. You couldn't ask for a better closure of the character, or they could go the WoW route and tell you your characters were worthless the whole time while the big bads get Jesus beamed by a character wearing tons of plot armor and has been happening since Wrath.

 

 

While I agree the Revan we see in SWTOR (that is, post 300 year stasis) is crazy, and of course mistaken in his belief he must and is capable of single-handedly destroying the Emperor, we fundamentally disagree on Revan's true character outside the immense influence of the Emperor (During Mandalorian Wars, arguably after regaining part of his memory during Jedi Civil Wars, and during the Revan Novel after regaining his mask). You state his core character was that of a psychotic butcher, which I don't see your justifications for. (As Darth Revan, 'Revan Reborn', and the Revan at the Foundry were, but those forms of Revan were deeply manipulated and twisted by the Sith Emperor, and not the true Revan.)

 

Revan at his core was a Jedi, an unorthodox one for sure, but even after all he did, the Council recognized this and refused to strip away his title as a Jedi (Revan Novel). His quest to defeat the Emperor was born not out of hate or revenge, but of a desire to protect and save not only the galaxy (much like his entry into the Mandalorian Wars) but his unborn son as well. (Revan Novel) Sure, as time went on and Revan's mind was fractured over 300 years of torture, the dark, not-so-jedi part of him was twisted and strengthened, (but again, is not the core of Revan's character,)but it was initially only a very small part of him that was then exacerbated, and, in large part, created by the Emperor.

 

 

Honestly I don't know what you consider good because it was a good story, and gave a good and proper ending for his character that satisfies both arguments on Revan's character.

 

Before I explain what I consider 'good', I guess I want to clarify that I don't necessarily think the story given to us was objectively poor in all aspects, although I did think it really in a lot of ways ruined Revan's character arc, ending it without proper closure and therefore creating an unsatisfying ending for Revan's story. Anyway...

 

The closure and 'good' story line that I was asking for was some sort of final conflict between him and the Emperor, which hopefully would give Revan some final little piece of victory, even if the overarching conflict was a resounding defeat for him. This could have manifested in several ways, all of which don't require him to become godlike and assert total dominance over the PC's, making the player worthless (which is again, not what I'm advocating or want.) To show that it's not impossible, and to further illustrate my point here are some examples, but are no means an exhaustive list and aren't necessarily of the highest quality. Keep in mind these are simple rewrites of the very end of the story given to us... I would also advocate for changes further back in the story to make it more coherent and interesting, although for the sakes of simplicity, space, and my time, I'll just keep it to rewrites of the end.

 

1) Revan succeeds in summoning the Emperor. The two have a final duel, in which the Emperor wins and fatally wounds Revan. However, Revan is able to delay/weaken him enough for the Player and his/her allies to arrive and battle the Emperor,either a) defeating and killing him, bringing closure to Revan and a resounding victory for the player, or, b) if the Emperor is to be kept alive for further content, defeating him enough to disperse his spirit into the galaxy. The Emperor is defeated at least temporarily, averting the potential crisis of him returning in full strength. Revan played a key role in this, giving him a final sense of victory over the Emperor. The Emperor is still alive and out in the stars, but weakened and delayed. In either case, before his death, the two sides of him unite, giving him peace as he becomes one with the force.

 

2) The player character and his/her allies arrive in time to stop Revan. They battle much like they do in the expansion, with the player and his/her allies coming out on top. This weakens the dark side of Revan enough for the light side of him to unify, becoming the true Revan again. He finally realizes that he can't defeat the Emperor alone. Then one of a few things could occur.

a) The Emperor, revived, emerges from temple, strengthened, to combat the player, the coalition, and Revan. This then plays out like 1)a, where the Emperor is defeated, and Revan dies.

b) Like above, although it plays out like 1)b where the Emperor is only weakened but acute catastrophe averted. Revan dies

c) Revan and the Coalition, through their combined power, reinforce the seal on the Emperor. Unable to fully destroy him, they at least contain him further, giving Revan a final victory of the Emperor. Revan dies.

 

In any of the above where Revan dies and the Emperor lives, as a a possible addition/change: Revan's spirit remains fractured. The light, pure side of him becomes one with the force, while the dark, corrupted side of him, in an act of revenge, is able to merge his spirit with the Emperor's as the Emperor escapes. The consequences of this could vary, but it would serve to hinder the Emperor all the way up to his eventual undoing at the hands of the player characters in future content, and which point that part of Revan is either finally destroyed or put to rest, unifying once more with the 'other' Revan.

 

Anyway, this is all just my 2 creds, and in the end, the end we got is the end we got, for better or for worse.

 

 

(for worse) ;)

 

Edited by Swissbob
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