How SoR ruined level 1-55 PvE

[MrCombatable]

The stat changes introduced in SoR make everyone weaker than they previously were, which seemed to be Bioware's goal, but they did not account for PvE progression up to 60. What they basically did was reduce the benefit of stats so that you are as powerful as you were at 55 pre-patch once you reach level 60. Did they completely forget about fixing mobs stats to compensate for this? My 55's are in 180/172 gear. I can no longer do HM 55 flashpoints because, even though my gear is slightly better than what it was pre-patch, the stat changes did nothing to the mobs in these flashpoints which hit hard and my weakened heals can't keep up. I am also noticing this on my level 40 and 28 characters. If anyone in the group is not geared up for their level then flashpoints are a painful exercise in futility. I used to be able to carry my group if I was geared for my level and everyone else was a bit undergeared but that's like the bare minimum now to get the flashpoint done. Am I the only one that's noticing this is a problem? The difficulty of everything up to 60 just isn't fun for me anymore, it's a waste of time.

 

All this plus the server issues from the increased population and the combat proficiency changes that made us re-buy skills that Bioware just announced will be free next week makes this a sloppy update to say the least. The new content that was introduced is cool, soloing flashpoints and the new planets, but you forgot about all the stuff that's in your game already and how these changes will make all of that an annoying experience.

Edited December 7, 2014 by MrCombatable

[shyroman]

Can't faceroll flashpoints anymore? Seems fine to me.

[JamieKirby]

I haven't had issues with difficulty, maybe you got soft and now that it isn't easy to do, you are having trouble, maybe you should learn to play?

[-Holmes]

Uhhh....

Damage + Health

Towards the end of the 2.0 patch cycle, classes began to exceed the baseline damage values that we intended. In order to get back to where we wanted the damage output to be, we are lowering the damage output across the board. Players at level 55 will find that their damage has dropped, while players at level 60 end up having about the same amount of damage output that they did pre-3.0 at 55.

 

In a similar fashion, we weren’t happy with how long it took to level from 1 to 55 in the pre-3.0 game. In order to speed up the low-level game, all enemies from level 50 and lower are no longer as tough, and now die faster.

 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

[BobFredJohn]

My sniper was in full 168 no set bonus before the patch, running daily Makeb missions took a while.

 

After the patch I brought some new gear and am now 1-shotting afew enemies

 

My sniper at least seems to have got stronger

 

And the HM 55's I have done since the patch I haven't noticed any difference in difficulty. Could it just be in full 180's you were facerolling them and now you expected to do proper rotations and pay attention to mechanics, a habbit you lost when running overgeared?

[Loc_n_lol]

Mob health has gone down by something like 25% in HM FPs (and I think, globally, level 60 mobs certainly don't look as tough as they were expected to be, a 'strong' NPC doesn't have anywhere near as much health as a player in entry gear). Here are some health values for Mando Raiders HM, but it's much the same for every one :

Normal: 9k ->6k

Strong: 25k ->19k

Elite: 51k->38k

 

So Damager-dealers are happy because even though their damage has gone down, they're actually killing things faster. Crisis averted !

 

On the other hand, healers got nerfed hardcore, because the good ones were really carrying everyone before if we're honest, but instead of reducing enemy damage to compensate, they've increased it by ridiculous amounts. Tanks didn't get more survivable to compensate either.

 

So the next time you're wiping on trash/adds in a flashpoint, you can actually blame it on the dps for not killing things fast enough. Not that it will help, of course.

[midianlord]

Hard modes are actually hard again (try the new level 60 HMs when you get there --you'll see just how insultingly bad all too many tanks are, believe me.).

 

This is good, and long past due.

 

As for the stats-squish:

 

My Mercs and Gunslingers feel markedly stronger now, Sorcs (Just tried Lightning so far) feel squishier but have even better alpha-strike and AE.

 

No more over-powered mindless faceroll, we actually have to learn how to play again.

 

Bugs and credit-sink stupidity aside, they should do this more often, IMO. (I'll miss my talented Aimed Shot/Ambush knockback, though.)

[Morrolan]

The stat changes introduced in SoR make everyone weaker than they previously were, which seemed to be Bioware's goal, but they did not account for PvE progression up to 60. What they basically did was reduce the benefit of stats so that you are as powerful as you were at 55 pre-patch once you reach level 60. Did they completely forget about fixing mobs stats to compensate for this? .

 

They were supposed to have but given the feedback I don't think it was done properly.

[ImanolValentine]

Mobs have become weaker. Today I just did a HM lvl 50 (hey, don't blame me, 20 basics for daily plus the basics dropped on the fp plus the basics for completing it). It was hilarious how easily I walked by killing everything. Also, I could solo tactical 55 fps, so mobs are /not/ that hard. Even talking about ops, EC NiM can be done by 4 men. Ridiculous.

 

Doing lvl 55 hm fps is slightly easier now. Lvl 60 tacts are even easier than lvl 55 tacticals. But when it comes to HM 60... Well. Tython's first boss, Korriban's second (not counting bonuss) and manaan's bonus boss are... insulting. Tython's one I've defeated him, but the other two are ridiculously hard. I can't say I hate it. I LOVE IT! And as there are no guides, you have to discover the tacts by wiping. Practising. Everyone can read and understand a guide, but the ones that made those guides are the really good players.

 

What I hate is ragequiters. NEW BOSS. NEW TACTS. EVERYTHING NEW. DON'T PRETEND TO KNOW EVERYTHING. For example Sarisi. It's hilarious how hard to kill he is. Not that he can kill you either. 20+ minutes fight. God. It was a fault of the dps in fact. Anyway, the thing is that is as hard as it MUST be. Ragequiters and so say it's too hard. It is not "too", it is "so".

 

So answering you, it's just as hard as it should. Even too easy as far as we can solo oricon heroic. Be brave, wipe a bit and enjoy!

Edited December 8, 2014 by ImanolValentine

[MrCombatable]

On the other hand, healers got nerfed hardcore, because the good ones were really carrying everyone before if we're honest, but instead of reducing enemy damage to compensate, they've increased it by ridiculous amounts. Tanks didn't get more survivable to compensate either.

 

This is what i'm mostly concerned about. I only play tank or heals (queue times) and everything is just worse for all of my characters. I know i'm doing all my rotations properly, using skills that buff other skills first, but the rotations are incredibly weak post-patch. My main is a healing sorc and pre-patch it healed for 3k+ tics on innervate crits. Now it only does 2.4k crits. My revivification used to heal for 1k+ tics. Now it does 500 tics. Dark Infusion used to heal 10k at top crits. Now the highest it goes is 6.5k. Dark heal used to heal for 8k top crits. Now it does 5k top crits. Every single one of my heals was nerfed. I would be fine with that if mobs were properly adjusted for this but they are downright not. Tanks and healers are weaker. Dps are stronger. Mobs hit harder. This is not a fix.

 

I also don't much care for difficult content. If this is actually the difficulty Bioware originally wanted then i'll just play solo from now on.

[Fidelicatessen]

I also don't much care for difficult content. If this is actually the difficulty Bioware originally wanted then i'll just play solo from now on.

 

Complaining about how HM FPs are actually hard now is pretty silly.

 

This detail should have been included in the original post. Then all would have been made clear.

 

"TL;DR: Hard Mode Flashpoints are now hard. I never signed up for actual hard content, so I'll be soloing now." Personally, I'm happy to have hard content again. I was getting tired of facerolling through "HM" stuff.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Fidelicatessen

[MUHADN]

Have u guys tried the rakata prime HM 60 bonus boss? Strong adds keep coming in as u tried to burn the boss. To add to the fun, the boss has AOE and keep pulling all of us in. Imagine the irritation as a sniper always get pull in before even he could finish his rotation. End up manage to kill the bonus boss in 2nd try in about 20 mins according to one of my grpmates. There may be a better way to handle it but it was fun.

 

But I could see how the experience would be dampen if u r group with people who wants to do things fast. But lucky for me, my grpmates was up to the challenge =D.

[MrCombatable]

Complaining about how HM FPs are actually hard now is pretty silly.

 

This detail should have been included in the original post. Then all would have been made clear.

 

"TL;DR: Hard Mode Flashpoints are now hard. I never signed up for actual hard content, so I'll be soloing now." Personally, I'm happy to have hard content again. I was getting tired of facerolling through "HM" stuff.

 

Ugh I don't understand why people think this is a justification. These flashpoints shouldn't be "hard" for me anymore, I am far above their recommended gear ratings and am doing my rotations properly. If that isn't enough to keep my group healed up then what fault is there on my end?

Edited December 8, 2014 by MrCombatable

[Fidelicatessen]

Ugh I don't understand why people think this is a justification. These flashpoints shouldn't be "hard" for me anymore, I am far above their recommended gear ratings and am doing my rotations properly. If that isn't enough to keep my group healed up then what fault is there on my end?

 

It might be that there is no fault at all on your end. Crappy DPS (and tanks) have been getting carried by excellent healers for at least the last 6 months. Now that mechanics matter, crappy DPS (and tanks) just don't cut it, even with awesome healing. Mechanics have to be paid attention to. DPS kill orders must be followed. (To be fair, crappy healers have been carried by excellent tanks and DPS, too--overall the quality of play has been hovering at bottom for the past several months)

 

It's possible that you're doing something you need to change. But it's also possible that you're doing fine and the rest of your group is so used to playing crappy (and has been doing so for months with no consequences) that they are now being rudely awakened by actual difficult content. If this (latter) is the case, I recommend you get some talk therapy with BobFredJohn, the most patient flashpoint PuGger in the history of flashpoint PuGgers. Seriously, the Dalai Lama could take lessons from this guy in patience and tolerance.

 

Anyhow, if you're on Harbinger or Begeren Colony, I'd love to do some FPs with someone who actually cares to play well. PM me if you'd like.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Fidelicatessen

[benovide]

HMs are fracking ridiculous! holy crap you have entire groups being wiped in the very start of a boss fight. DPS is so high and so rapid being 1 healer on a 4 man team, you can put AOE heals on them and they will still die a second after. You can focus on one player, and after he survives that attack and the rest of the team is dead but him and the healer, now the healer insta dies by the volleys from the adds, and the player who was just saved dies from the bosses next attack.

 

THe fracking 55HMs are 55Operations difficulty.

[John_Depaepe]

Have u guys tried the rakata prime HM 60 bonus boss? Strong adds keep coming in as u tried to burn the boss. To add to the fun, the boss has AOE and keep pulling all of us in. Imagine the irritation as a sniper always get pull in before even he could finish his rotation. End up manage to kill the bonus boss in 2nd try in about 20 mins according to one of my grpmates. There may be a better way to handle it but it was fun.

 

But I could see how the experience would be dampen if u r group with people who wants to do things fast. But lucky for me, my grpmates was up to the challenge =D.

 

 

Mate,stay inside of the bunker and the adds don't spawn,hug boss = win.

 

And i love the new hm fp's,Finally some challenging stuff.

Edited December 8, 2014 by John_Depaepe

[peedeeboy]

On the other hand, healers got nerfed hardcore, because the good ones were really carrying everyone before if we're honest, but instead of reducing enemy damage to compensate, they've increased it by ridiculous amounts. Tanks didn't get more survivable to compensate either.

 

So the next time you're wiping on trash/adds in a flashpoint, you can actually blame it on the dps for not killing things fast enough. Not that it will help, of course.

 

This sums up how I feel. Healing < L60 is just not fun any more - its trying an tedious and I get the impression tanking is the same. We need more Tanks and Healers in game, but right now I feel (for the first time ever) like rolling a DPS and giving up healing Never though I would be whining in a game forum..

 

Ran a PUG HM FP yesterday with tank I've run with before without any issues. By the end and several wipes later, we were nearly at each others throats.. all the group was massively over geared expect for one DPS who was under geared.

 

Wiped on the last boss twice (DPS check mechanic). Guess who was copping all the flak for wipes... until the undergeared DPS dropped and we got a overgeared replacement and finished.

 

Before 3.0 we would have carried him fine... but with nerfed heals and a broken cleanse I was frustrated beyond belief.

 

"So what?" I hear you say, "everyone in a FP should have appropriate gear or not be there"

 

But here's the problem: BW created the situation where there are loads of undergeared people in HM FPs thanks to KDY, 12x XP and now this is going to make things worse:

 

In a similar fashion, we weren’t happy with how long it took to level from 1 to 55 in the pre-3.0 game. In order to speed up the low-level game, all enemies from level 50 and lower are no longer as tough, and now die faster.

 

Making people get to L50+ quicker but at the same time making HM FPs even more dependant on gear seems contradictory and misguided to me...

 

Tanks and healers are weaker. Dps are stronger. Mobs hit harder. This is not a fix.

I agree... things just seem really unbalanced to me at the moment. There are all kinds of other issues people are reporting such as Strongs hitting harder than Champions. I know alot of people on the forums say "I'm sooo l33t I haven't noticed any difference", but balance to me definitely seems really off in many areas at the moment.

 

That being said, I'm sure it will get sorted out over time... but right now I think I might take a little break and come back in a couple of months...

[demotivator]

Mate,stay inside of the bunker and the adds don't spawn,hug boss = win.

 

And i love the new hm fp's,Finally some challenging stuff.

 

Don't they spawn when you get out to avoid the pulsating shield? (don't tell me that your healer can heal through this)

Edited December 8, 2014 by demotivator

[ImanolValentine]

HMs are fracking ridiculous! holy crap you have entire groups being wiped in the very start of a boss fight. DPS is so high and so rapid being 1 healer on a 4 man team, you can put AOE heals on them and they will still die a second after. You can focus on one player, and after he survives that attack and the rest of the team is dead but him and the healer, now the healer insta dies by the volleys from the adds, and the player who was just saved dies from the bosses next attack.

 

THe fracking 55HMs are 55Operations difficulty.

 

Sorry to disagree. If the tank takes the adds and puts his DCDs on, healer should have time to heal. As someone said before, if you all die csn be either because crappy DPS and tank (low geared or not giving a **** about mechs) or your fault. For example yesterday I had problems with R-9XR, second boss of korriban hm. The issue weren't me or the healer, but a crappy DPS (got exterm. Mode at 40%). Perfectly doable if everything is right.

[Darth_Advent]

Meh, they'll get nerfed into bantha fodder again. Don't worry; the era of Lost Island HM sailed off into the sunset years ago.

[MrCombatable]

This sums up how I feel. Healing < L60 is just not fun any more

 

I have pretty much given up on healing for the time being. My 55 healers are collecting dust and my lower level characters are all dps now. Pre-patch it was the healers and tanks that could carry groups if they were playing their role properly, now it's the dps that have to carry and I can't rely on all the awful dps players out there to do it right.

 

Please address this Bioware. I want to heal and tank but I can't gamble on good dps players and it sucks.

Edited December 9, 2014 by MrCombatable

[ImanolValentine]

I have pretty much given up on healing for the time being. My 55 healers are collecting dust and my lower level characters are all dps now. Pre-patch it was the healers and tanks that could carry groups if they were playing their role properly, now it's the dps that have to carry and I can't rely on all the awful dps players out there to do it right.

 

Please address this Bioware. I want to heal and tank but I can't gamble on good dps players and it sucks.

 

It's not the DPS. At the moment EVERYONE has to do their jobs. If the tank or the healer are idiotic, don't expect to end the FP. This has been the best change in ages. Pre-3.0 DPS did not have to do it right, they just had to strike. Now they do have to, their role has gained importance, but tank and healer remain as important as they were B.P. I love the way that now all members of the group have to do their job and I hope it lasts.

[midianlord]

You need to be geared --ilvl 186, the new Basic tier is fine.

 

The tank needs to use their DCDs to help survive the initial alpha-strike and give heals a chance to land and take effect --that seems to be the dev-team's new favourite mechanic.

 

Oh, and one more, brand-spanking-new thing:

 

The people you play with need to not be a bunch of weak-suck little ******* who rage-bail after one death.

 

But, I'm sure those aforementioned little kiddies'll cry and whine on the forums and the difficulty and challenge that I'm finding myself enjoying despite actually struggling on occasion will be nerfed in due course.

 

And then we can all go back to pretending we're leet and demanding pay-to-win easymode on the forums again! Doesn't that sound nice?

 

[cynicism]

 

Patience: This shall pass.

 

[/cynicism]

[peedeeboy]

You need to be geared --ilvl 186, the new Basic tier is fine.

 

How SoR ruined level 1-55 PvE

 

So, Level 1 - 55 content is fine once one has aquired a set of Level 60 gear?? Well, that's reassuring!! (I guess you meant to post this in the other thread about L60 FPs being too hard? This thread was those of us that didn't pre-order SoR in time for early access to QQ about how Lvl 1 - 55 content seems borked at the moment...)

 

[cynicism]

 

Patience: This shall pass.

 

[/cynicism]

 

With regard to the weirdness of current Level 1 - 55 content, I think it will pass. I'm looking forward to harder content, and I'm pretty sure alot of the issues with 1 - 55 content at the moment is due to bugs, not design.

 

The Customer Service / Bug Report forums are full of issues at the moment. Some Lvl 55 bosses throwing out double the damage they did previously. Silver mobs < L55 throwing out more damage than champions. Alacrity increasing rather than decreasing cast times. Accuracy mods not working. Cleanse not working. Various other skills not working properly. The list goes on...

 

Once these are resolved, I think Lvl 1 - 55 content will end up a bit harder than it was previously, but not the frustration fest it is at the moment... Which I do believe is a good thing

 

Its just a shame that so many bugs seemed to get through testing...

Edited December 9, 2014 by peedeeboy
typo