Training Costs are a Thing of the Past

[DarthTHC]

To all those repeating the "credits aren't real, OMG" nonsense, credits are time invested into the game. Time is valuable. And no, the story did not cover the skill training, not even close. I ended up having to do every daily in the game and still came up short on cash for the skills. That's 4 hours I could have spent doing something else, something more fun. When time literally is money (yes, this is a subscription-based game for a lot of people), that's time and money that BioWare utterly wasted for me.

 

For those comparing it to the free skills you got from the 12x XP event, those 1-55 skills probably don't account for even half of the 56-60 skills. The majority of the 1-55 skill credit dump came solely from speeder training 3.

 

To all those saying "it's a service, not a product!", I'm sorry you live in a country where they don't give a **** about consumer rights. However, in the UK, we do not go for caveat emptor. We have the right to a product OR service that works as advertised. Does that mean there can be no changes to it in the case of software? No. Does it mean we can expect no bugs? No. But it does mean that customers have a right to expect a serviceable quality from their product, which SoR fails instantly by having the main quest end be so bugged. This leads to the right for a refund. I did not pay £15 to join a paid beta. I paid for a finished product and as a reward for trusting BioWare with my money on principle, I was granted early access to said finished product.

 

The amount of anti-consumerism in this post is ridiculous. Anyone who feels shafted in any way is just a whiner, anyone who doesn't support a broken release needs to go outside, get some perspective and stop QQing. Consumers. Come. First. We paid for a finished product, we have the right to a finished product, we have the right to not be so severely punished for this product.

 

The proper path to seek a refund is not via the General Discussion forum. You should probably call customer service.

[Heal-To-Full]

We have the right to a product OR service that works as advertised.

Which is what you received.

 

The next version was then improved. It's like you preordered a new car model, received yours among the first, got to ride it for a while. Then an updated version hits the dealerships and turns out it has better gas mileage due to new ECU firmware, which is seamlessly provided to your car as well.

 

And now you're demanding the carmaker refund you the extra gas you've spent that you wouldn't have spent if you hadn't preordered your car or hadn't driven it with old ECU firmware.

[TravelersWay]

Evidence was provided in the post immediately following the text you quoted. The system to do this is and has been in place. And while I can't absolutely prove it, I HIGHLY doubt that they just woke up Friday and said, "You know what, let's make skills free. I mean I know we just had them for free with 12x XP, so isn't that such a coincidence that we've already designed and tested a system that makes them free? All the work is done for us!" Again, I can't be 100% sure, but it's a reasonable conclusion that this has been a concept in the works... But please, by all means, tell me how inductive reasoning isn't valid in this situation given their lack of comment.

 

Now, if we can accept a strong inductive argument, we can then move on to how flawed their timing and management of the situation is.

 

So you have no evidence, but pure speculation based off of your own personal beliefs of what does or does not happen within a game development studio. I thought as much.

 

You don't need to use asinine hyperbole or idiotic supposition to support your argument. All you do by doing that is make it look ... asinine and idiotic. Yes, their timing and management of the testing process is indeed flawed, but that still does not justify withholding a positive change to the game so that situation can be made worse on an exponential level, nor does it justify any further need for comment then they have already given. A real shafting here would have been to said nothing and simply let the patch go through on the 9th and have it a nice surprise that training costs have been removed. As it was, they were presented with a problem discovered by the players and acted in a very quick manner (considering their past history) to find an equitable solution presented. No need to find a conspiracy where none exists.

 

To all those repeating the "credits aren't real, OMG" nonsense, credits are time invested into the game. Time is valuable. And no, the story did not cover the skill training, not even close. I ended up having to do every daily in the game and still came up short on cash for the skills. That's 4 hours I could have spent doing something else, something more fun. When time literally is money (yes, this is a subscription-based game for a lot of people), that's time and money that BioWare utterly wasted for me.

 

For those comparing it to the free skills you got from the 12x XP event, those 1-55 skills probably don't account for even half of the 56-60 skills. The majority of the 1-55 skill credit dump came solely from speeder training 3.

 

To all those saying "it's a service, not a product!", I'm sorry you live in a country where they don't give a **** about consumer rights. However, in the UK, we do not go for caveat emptor. We have the right to a product OR service that works as advertised. Does that mean there can be no changes to it in the case of software? No. Does it mean we can expect no bugs? No. But it does mean that customers have a right to expect a serviceable quality from their product, which SoR fails instantly by having the main quest end be so bugged. This leads to the right for a refund. I did not pay £15 to join a paid beta. I paid for a finished product and as a reward for trusting BioWare with my money on principle, I was granted early access to said finished product.

 

The amount of anti-consumerism in this post is ridiculous. Anyone who feels shafted in any way is just a whiner, anyone who doesn't support a broken release needs to go outside, get some perspective and stop QQing. Consumers. Come. First. We paid for a finished product, we have the right to a finished product, we have the right to not be so severely punished for this product.

Well, generally speaking, when a service does not meet a consumer's satisfaction, the consumer stops paying for said service. No MMO is ever a finished product. If you are looking for a finished, bug free product, perhaps your time and money are better spent elsewhere. You'll have to excuse me if I take your statements with a grain of salt when you, yourself act in a very anti-consumer method by being an enabler of the situation that has plagued the industry for many years by continuing to spend money on unfinished, buggy products.

Edited December 7, 2014 by TravelersWay

[thejadefalcon]

If you'll welcome whatever BioWare decides, why haven't you welcomed what they've already communicated? You'll never have to pay for a skill again.

 

I like how you can read just enough to have a go at them, but not the part that came before. "I would like to note that I do not explicitly support any of the suggested recompense, nor am I seeking it". He's just compiling an easy to read list.

 

The proper path to seek a refund is not via the General Discussion forum. You should probably call customer service.

 

I am aware and considering it, however, this is regarding credit refunds and this is the proper place to discuss it.

 

Which is what you received.

 

No, I was promised a finished product. The fact that I've spent 180k in repair fees for the final fight determines that was a lie.

 

The next version was then improved. It's like you preordered a new car model, received yours among the first, got to ride it for a while. Then an updated version hits the dealerships and turns out it has better gas mileage due to new ECU firmware, which is seamlessly provided to your car as well.

 

And now you're demanding the carmaker refund you the extra gas you've spent that you wouldn't have spent if you hadn't preordered your car or hadn't driven it with old ECU firmware.

 

No, this is like you preordered a car (pretend that's a thing you can do) along with many other people. People who bought this car before November got it slightly early as a special thanks. It came out, it had a few niggles, but you could possibly work with them. Then you find out, three days after you received your car that those who bought the exact same product as you are getting the better mileage version and you won't receive any form of compensation at all, despite trusting the company enough to pay before you even saw the specs.

[dark_atreides]

You don't need to use asinine hyperbole or idiotic supposition to support your argument.

 

Yes I do. It's the best way to point out the absurdity of your position.

 

My conclusion is in fact highly logical given the method in which things are typically done within this industry. Problem is seeing as it can't be proven 100% you wish to argue about it. That's fine. Pointless, but fine.

 

Given their historic lack of comment on anything, all one is able to do is use inductive reasoning which includes their past history, the motus operandi of the industry concerning implementation of things, etc. All of which results in a strong inductive argument that implies this wasn't some random decision they made Friday morning, and was instead something they've experimented with (12x XP) and have considered doing given how quickly they made the call to implement it. What would be pure speculation would be that they implemented it sooner than they wanted to given the community backlash over the bugged skill training.

 

All of that is perfectly logical. You would just rather go "Prove it" and stick your head in the ground.

 

Kinda tired of repeating myself with you. You're obviously incapable of arguing against these conclusions. And to be honest, why bother? If they're wrong they should address the community so we can work from a more concrete set of facts. But usually, if it looks like a fish and smells like a fish, chances are it isn't a kitten.

[thejadefalcon]

Well, generally speaking, when a service does not meet a consumer's satisfaction, the consumer stops paying for said service.

 

Yes, that's what I'm probably going to do. Thanks for once again adding nothing of value to the discussion. However, if I did not get the service I paid for, I have ways to get my money back.

 

No MMO is ever a finished product. If you are looking for a finished, bug free product, perhaps your time and money are better spent elsewhere.

 

Don't give me that garbage. You're full of logical fallacies in this thread. No-one but you has acted like it should be entirely bug-free, but there is a massive difference between graphical bugs and "oh, no, this boss didn't drop loot!" to you can't finish the final gosh darn fight.

 

You'll have to excuse me if I take your statements with a grain of salt when you, yourself act in a very anti-consumer method by being an enabler of the situation that has plagued the industry for many years by continuing to spend money on unfinished, buggy products.

 

I've been burnt by preorders before. What I do? I stop buying preorders from that company. I feel no reason to stop buying indie games because Phil Fish is a complete git. Why are preorders different? I trust a company to deliver a full, finished, workable product. If they deliver, great, I got what I wanted and can dive right into it. If they don't, then I stop trusting them.

 

Now, if you can just stop throwing around big words like "asinine hyperbole" and "idiotic supposition" like you think you know what they mean, that would be great. You keep repeating those words like you're saying something new, all you're doing is irritating people on both sides of the discussion and crowding up the thread.

Edited December 7, 2014 by thejadefalcon

[Heal-To-Full]

No, this is like you preordered a car (pretend that's a thing you can do)

That is a thing you can do. Have to do, to get some highly sought-after models.

Any Tesla, Nissan GT-R, many supercars are preordered, paid for and sometimes sold out a year+ before the first production car even hits the road.

 

Then you find out, three days after you received your car that those who bought the exact same product as you are getting the better mileage version and you won't receive any form of compensation at all, despite trusting the company enough to pay before you even saw the specs.

Correct. Keeping in mind that your version also gets a free upgrade to the same mileage.

 

So what's wrong about this scenario? Do you expect the carmaker to reimburse you for the gas you've wasted driving without this upgrade?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[Max_Killjoy]

I for one welcome our new free training overlords.

[dark_atreides]

Correct. Keeping in mind that your version also gets a free upgrade to the same mileage.

 

So what's wrong about this scenario? Do you expect the carmaker to reimburse you for the gas you've wasted driving without this upgrade?

 

I think the better analogy would have been that they came out with a part that fixed/improved the MPG at not cost to people who buy the car a week after it hit the showroom floor seeing as it was suddenly included, but then charge the people that bought it prior to the part's release a week later.

[thejadefalcon]

That is a thing you can do. Have to do, to get some highly sought-after models.

Any Tesla, Nissan GT-R, many supercars are preordered, paid for and sometimes sold out a year+ before the first production car even hits the road.

 

Fair enough then. Don't really look too deeply into cars, so I'll take your word for that.

 

 

Correct. Keeping in mind that your version also gets an upgrade to the same mileage.

 

So what's wrong about this scenario?

 

Because you, naturally wanting to use your car, just spend thousands of quid on fuel exploring the country. Now, you find out if you'd been late to the party, it would have cost you £12 total. So you're now out a lot of money because you supported a product early and expected it to remain the same for a considerably long time, partly because on the day you got the car, you also got a letter from the CEO saying "the excessive fuel mileage in this car is working as intended".

[TravelersWay]

No, I was promised a finished product. The fact that I've spent 180k in repair fees for the final fight determines that was a lie.

And it is finished. All the content was completed and delivered. Again, that doesn't mean that it would also come completely bug free. Your repair bills in the final fight have nothing to do with the matter. People have already beaten it, bugs and all. I don't remember anyone saying that defeat and death would not be a potential part of any part of the game.

 

No, this is like you preordered a car (pretend that's a thing you can do) along with many other people. People who bought this car before November got it slightly early as a special thanks. It came out, it had a few niggles, but you could possibly work with them. Then you find out, three days after you received your car that those who bought the exact same product as you are getting the better mileage version and you won't receive any form of compensation at all, despite trusting the company enough to pay before you even saw the specs.

Actually, you can preorder cars. You are also getting a free upgrade to the car after it is made publicly available to those who didn't pre-order.

 

Yes I do. It's the best way to point out the absurdity of your position.

My position isn't the absurd one. I am not the one pulling conspiracy theories out of thin air, and trying to justify them via inductive reasoning. I am not the one you need to convince. You need to convince BioWare that your position is justified. Coming from someone who has experience in the field, you are doing a poor job of it.

 

My conclusion is in fact highly logical given the method in which things are typically done within this industry. Problem is seeing as it can't be proven 100% you wish to argue about it. That's fine. Pointless, but fine. Given their historic lack of comment on anything, all one is able to do is use inductive reasoning which includes their past history, the motus operandi of the industry concerning implementation of things, etc. All of which results in a strong inductive argument that implies this wasn't some random decision they made Friday morning, and was instead something they've experimented with (12x XP) and have considered doing given how quickly they made the call to implement it. What would be pure speculation would be that they implemented it sooner than they wanted to given the community backlash over the bugged skill training.

There are many methods employed in the industry, so there are many "typical" ways to handle any given situation based on the severity of the situation and developer in question. We have no working knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes at the offices of BioWare, so your conclusion is in fact not very logical given that complete lack of knowledge. It is all speculation, but the most reasonable speculation is in fact that they were presented with a problem and decided to act quickly to implement a solution because of that problem, and because it was something that had been considering for some time, and they already had the mechanics in place to implement it in a reasonably quick manner.

 

All of that is perfectly logical. You would just rather go "Prove it" and stick your head in the ground.

Because irrefutable proof is always better than circumstantial evidence. My head is right here where it ought to be - about six feet above the ground, waiting for the proof of any conjecture that this thrown about here. I shall remain skeptical about any conspiracy theories that are pulled out of ... something a couple of feet below one's head without it. But of course, again, I am not the one who can offer millions of credits worth of refunds, am I?

 

Kinda tired of repeating myself with you. You're obviously incapable of arguing against these conclusions. And to be honest, why bother? If they're wrong they should address the community so we can work from a more concrete set of facts. But usually, if it looks like a fish and smells like a fish, chances are it isn't a kitten.

Sometimes, things don't need to be addressed any further than they already are. Just because it looks like a fish and smells like a fish, doesn't mean it is indeed a fish, and not all fish look alike.

Edited December 7, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Gokkan]

And it is finished. All the content was completed and delivered. Again, that doesn't mean that it would also come completely bug free. Your repair bills in the final fight have nothing to do with the matter. People have already beaten it, bugs and all. I don't remember anyone saying that defeat and death would not be a potential part of any part of the game.

 

 

 

Actually, you can preorder cars. You are also getting a free upgrade to the car after it is made publicly available to those who didn't pre-order.

 

 

My position isn't the absurd one. I am not the one pulling conspiracy theories out of thin air, and trying to justify them via inductive reasoning. I am not the one you need to convince. You need to convince BioWare that your position is justified. Coming from someone who has experience in the field, you are doing a poor job of it.

 

 

There are many methods employed in the industry, so there are many "typical" ways to handle any given situation based on the severity of the situation and developer in question. We have no working knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes at the offices of BioWare, so your conclusion is in fact not very logical given that complete lack of knowledge. It is all speculation, but the most reasonable speculation is in fact that they were presented with a problem and decided to act quickly to implement a solution because of that problem, and because it was something that had been considering for some time, and they already had the mechanics in place to implement it in a reasonably quick manner.

 

 

 

Because irrefutable proof is always better than circumstantial evidence. My head is right here where it ought to be - about six feet above the ground, waiting for the proof of any conjecture that this thrown about here. I shall remain skeptical about any conspiracy theories that are pulled out of ... something a couple of feet below one's head without it.

 

 

Sometimes, things don't need to be addressed any further than they already are. Just because it looks like a fish and smells like a fish, doesn't mean it is indeed a fish, and not all fish look alike.

 

This guy is a troll plain and simple. Stop feeding the troll guys it is what he wants. Don't give him the pleasure. Just ignore the troll

[Heal-To-Full]

Because you, naturally wanting to use your car, just spend thousands of quid on fuel exploring the country. Now, you find out if you'd been late to the party, it would have cost you £12 total. So you're now out a lot of money because you supported a product early and expected it to remain the same for a considerably long time, partly because on the day you got the car, you also got a letter from the CEO saying "the excessive fuel mileage in this car is working as intended".

Yeah, that's basically it.

 

What would you expect a company to do about it? Say "we're sorry" - yeah, I think they will.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[TravelersWay]

This guy is a troll plain and simple. Stop feeding the troll guys it is what he wants. Don't give him the pleasure. Just ignore the troll

 

Ahh, because asking for proof of speculative conjecture, and statements that barely skirt the line as falsehoods as a means of trying to argue for a refund that may or may not be owed is trollish ... riiiight, I forgot how the internet works there for a minute. Well in that case, you just did what you warned others not to do.

Edited December 7, 2014 by TravelersWay

[thejadefalcon]

And it is finished. All the content was completed and delivered. Again, that doesn't mean that is would also come completely bug free. Your repair bills in the final fight have nothing to do with the matter. People have already beaten it, bugs and all. I don't remember anyone saying that defeat and death would not be a potential part of any part of the game.

 

Bull. There is a clear difference between a fight that is outright broken and one that is difficult. Defeating the final boss is not a matter of skill, but a matter of blind luck. That is not finished.

 

My position isn't the absurd one. I am not the one pulling conspiracy theories out of thin air, and trying to justify them via inductive reasoning. I am not the one you need to convince. You need to convince BioWare that your position is justified. Coming from someone who has experience in the field, you are doing a poor job of it.

 

Experience in the field of conspiracy theories? Yeah, I believe you. You can't possibly in a field which requires any form of customer relations or you wouldn't be arguing so hard against them.

 

Give one good reason, just one why BioWare should not give refunds for credits spent. Give one thing they would lose by doing this. Because those who have been hit by this can name thousands of reasons why it's a good idea to compensate us: the customers. The customer is not always right, but neither is the company. It's give and take and right now, the customers are feeling pretty damn taken from. It is the company's job to soothe any hurt and keep them. They need us a hell of a lot more than we need them.

[Heal-To-Full]

Give one thing they would lose by doing this.

Time.

 

The only reason people are asking for a credit refund from Bioware is because they think it's easy for BW to provide. As explained above, it's not a legal norm or an established practice. In reality, it might not be easy and can take a lot of dev time that is currently earmarked for fixing real problems like the Revan fight.

 

From the developer's perspective, you didn't buy skills from them. You bought the right to play a game that among many other things involves collecting and using virtual credits. Players didn't like one element, the devs said "sure guys, you don't like it, we'll remove it", and that's it.

 

If using this element has set some players back a bit while it was there, too bad, but these things happen, especially when playing a game at the same time as it's being developed.

 

 

Imagine if Skyrim released a patch that halved all vendor prices. Would it even for a moment occur to you to demand, especially in such strong language, that Bethesda makes a second patch that refunds you the exorbitant prices you've paid before? Why not?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[Edzew]

Also means you got 12x XP for two months AND no skill costs for two months.

 

But I'm sure you didn't complain about not having to pay for your skills during that time?

 

And you got to get to level 60 before everyone else*.

And you got to max out your crafting skills before everyone else*.

And you got to experience the storyline and epic ending before everyone else*.

And so on and so forth.

 

(* before everyone else that didn't preorder in time of course)

 

And you'll never have to pay for skills again.

Ever.

On any character.

eeever.

 

you also for got to mention having to pay to beta test for a full week.

 

experience all the bugs and glitches a full week before anyone else

 

waist a tun o credits for no good reason

 

.... am i forgetting anything else?? o yea and get completely lied to when they said the game is working as intended and a day or two later they come in and say oops our bad yea you are correct so next week we will make it free to train for ever!! thanks for all those credits you suckers spent and wasted!!!

 

 

Latest list, only one new suggestion I could find.

 

I would like to note that I do not explicitly support any of the suggested recompense, nor am I seeking it, though I would obviously welcome whatever Bioware decides.

 

This is what I have seen so far.

 

1) Full refund of all ability training that has been purchased since the start of Early Access (Dec 2nd)

2) 5 days of subscription time

3) 7 days of subscription time

4) One time stipend of 200CC

5) One time stipend of 500CC

6) A special mount or weapon

7) Return of 12XP, even if just for early access

8) Free legacy unlocks for a short period

9) Free legacy unlock for Field Respecialization

10) Reduction of mod extraction costs

11) Reduction of "death tax" in story mode flashpoints and operations

12) Addition of 3 more tabs to Legacy Storage, paid or unpaid

14) Additional speeder speed tier of 120%

15) Free Priority Transport terminal for Strongholds

16) A one time stipend of credits..50-70k for characters below 56, 500-600k for characters at 60

17) 50k per character awarded to all early access players

 

If I have missed any, or need to add any new suggestions let me know. I will expand the list and repost it when needed.

 

the only ones i would be ok with are number one and number seventeen. everything else means absolutely nothing to me

Edited December 7, 2014 by Edzew

[thejadefalcon]

Time.

 

Yes, of which players might have lost quite a bit of trying to get money for these upgrades.

 

The only reason people are asking for a credit refund from Bioware is because they think it's easy for BW to provide. As explained above, it's not a legal norm or an established practice to provide refunds such cases.

 

If they don't keep logs of where credits went, I'll be highly surprised.

 

In reality, it might not be easy and can take a lot of dev time that is currently earmarked for fixing real problems like the Revan fight.

 

Here's a quick solution. Calculate how much is spent on levels 56, 57, 58, 59 and 60 for each class. That'll take a couple of minutes to do manually. Now, find everyone who preordered and got early access. They already have this information. Now, run a program to determine what level all of their characters are. Are any above 55? Then give them credits equal to the level they are. 58? Give them the credits for 56, 57 and 58 skills. Done and done. One person can do this in less than an hour, I'm sure. Is it a perfect solution? No. What if people haven't actually bought the skills for that level? Free credits, right? But this is only an example of how simple it really is to fix it while getting customer satisfaction in return.

 

Imagine Skyrim released a patch that halved all vendor costs. Would it even for a moment occur to you to demand that Bethesda makes a second patch that refunds you the exorbitant prices you've paid before?

 

Seriously? How is that even remotely comparable? player.additem 0000000f 10000 Done. No time lost, compared to considerably time lost here.

[Heal-To-Full]

Seriously? How is that even remotely comparable? player.additem 0000000f 10000 Done. No time lost, compared to considerably time lost here.

That's cheating. Also, xbox and playstation versions don't have a cheating console. So how about that, would you demand a second patch? If no, why not?

 

 

you also for got to mention having to pay to beta test for a full week.

experience all the bugs and glitches a full week before anyone else

waist a tun o credits for no good reason

Indeed - now you know what early access experience is really all about!

 

Just like how many players predicted months ago: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=767802&page=4

(and also let it put to rest any thought of me being a EA apologist, if the name hasn't done that already)

 

there will be a pretty long beta, namely... the whole 3.0.

 

To be followed by 3.0a hotfix, 3.0.1 surprise nerf, 3.0.1a unscheduled maintenance, 3.0.1b mid-week exploit patch, 3.0.1c mission bug patch, 3.0.1d mission chain reset, 3.0.2 putting missing items on vendors and 3.0.2a making them work, but breaking others.

 

Promising 3.1 "as it was meant to be played", then 3.1.1 "as it was really meant to be played", but, to be optimistic, hopefully with 3.1.1f as it was meant to be played.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[LordArtemis]

I've got one.

 

You'll never have to pay for a skill again.

 

Oh wait...

 

Funny......

 

Yea, as you probably already know, thats not getting added to the list OEE.

 

If you'll welcome whatever BioWare decides, why haven't you welcomed what they've already communicated? You'll never have to pay for a skill again.

 

...yes, pretty sure I did that. Also pretty sure its clear that I don't need to be told what the change means....I'm well aware.

 

I know this might be tough for you to grasp DarthTHC, but if you bear with me it will be revealed to you......

 

I am happy with the current change. That much is obvious based on my multiple posts on the subject in this thread and others. The list is something I do. Being helpful....you know, that chestnut....

 

Now, had you read the preamble...like some fine folks have pointed out here....you probably would not have missed that part.

 

See? That wasn't so difficult to understand, was it?

 

the only ones i would be ok with are number one and number seventeen. everything else means absolutely nothing to me

 

Fair enough.

 

I'd like to hear any other suggestions anyone would have with respect to what they would consider acceptable recompense.

Edited December 7, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Edzew]

Here's a quick solution. Calculate how much is spent on levels 56, 57, 58, 59 and 60 for each class. That'll take a couple of minutes to do manually. Now, find everyone who preordered and got early access. They already have this information. Now, run a program to determine what level all of their characters are. Are any above 55? Then give them credits equal to the level they are. 58? Give them the credits for 56, 57 and 58 skills. Done and done. One person can do this in less than an hour, I'm sure. Is it a perfect solution? No. What if people haven't actually bought the skills for that level? Free credits, right? But this is only an example of how simple it really is to fix it while getting customer satisfaction in return.

.

 

what about the people that are still 55 and spent a crap load of money to learn and relearn skills when they first logged in on tuesday?? do those people get the shaft?? if so why should you get your credits back and not them??

[thejadefalcon]

what about the people that are still 55 and spent a crap load of money to learn and relearn skills when they first logged in on tuesday?? do those people get the shaft?? if so why should you get your credits back and not them??

 

Honestly, I'm not particularly happy about that either since it bankrupted my level 40 Merc, but since that hit everyone equally, I'm okay with it.

 

That's cheating.

 

It's also a single-player game, which is my point, it's entirely incomparable.

 

Also, xbox and playstation versions don't have a cheating console. So how about that, would you demand a second patch? If no, why not?

 

A) If I really wanted to mod my savefile that badly, I can easily add in plenty of gold without even modding my console. B) Gold has virtually zero use in the game. You don't even have to repair your armour in Skyrim. I haven't spent gold in my PC or Xbox copies of Skyrim since I was level 5.

[ScarletBlaze]

Actually,

 

This didn't just affect those with early access on the skills retraining. One of my best friends didn't have early access but she still had to chose her tree and then retrain some of the skills she had.

 

It affected more than just the people with early access so commenting that it was only the ones with early access that had to do this, was and is incorrect.

 

True, they only had to reset and pay for skills related to their new skill tree and didn't have to pay for leveling 56-60 as some of us did but unless I'm guessing wrong the biggest complaint was the point you had to pay for skills you already had paid prior to 55.

 

Level 56-60 was to be expected. Most of the complaints seem to stem from those skills we had already paid for and in that case everyone that log on this week was affected not just early access.

[djrobb]

Fair question azudelphi! Since the change we are making is a global one, affecting all players and skills, we felt this was a better approach to the overall cost to players. As a result, we will not be providing refunds for the cost of training.

 

Hope that clarifies our thoughts on the situation.

 

-eric

 

so what you are saying is all of the people who bought the xpac first and paid money to get in early are screwed out of all those credits? how is that even reasonable to do to the player base that is supporting you guys? i dropped almost 2mil on those abilities and i dont have alot of credits,. please re think this as it is terrible business. this is no way to treat paying customers.

[thejadefalcon]

True, they only had to reset and pay for skills related to their new skill tree and didn't have to pay for leveling 56-60 as some of us did but unless I'm guessing wrong the biggest complaint was the point you had to pay for skills you already had paid prior to 55.

 

Level 56-60 was to be expected. Most of the complaints seem to stem from those skills we had already paid for and in that case everyone that log on this week was affected not just early access.

 

You're guessing wrong. 56-60 was an order of magnitude above retraining skill costs, but only those who had early access are getting hit by that one. The pre-3.0 skills, everyone was hit equally by them.