YichenQin Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 How did he learn about Emperor's plan? In the conversation he clearly states that he know Emperor's current state and he will consume all lifeforms, and learn that recently And he also said on Yavin "everything about the Emperor is mystery" and "the Emperor's inner circle guards it's carefully". And he still don't know much about imperial guard. And may be hand, voice, or wrath, As far I saw during the SW storyline. How can he learn those things so quickly? We know that Darth Vowrawm get information by interrogated servant or of one of the Emperor's hand. It seems that Marr didn't get his information using the same way, or it should be at least hint during the conversation with Servant One. He seems was not informed by the Emperor or his servant either. Otherwise he should know these early, and his character would not accept such plan as far as we learn from the story. Did I miss something in the story somewhere ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcaleb Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I'm guessing it was either Scourge or one of the Jedi Council members who knew about it from Scourge telling them. Maybe Satele mentioned it in the shuttle ride over to the fight with Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 How did he learn about Emperor's plan? In the conversation he clearly states that he know Emperor's current state and he will consume all lifeforms, and learn that recently And he also said on Yavin "everything about the Emperor is mystery" and "the Emperor's inner circle guards it's carefully". And he still don't know much about imperial guard. And may be hand, voice, or wrath, As far I saw during the SW storyline. How can he learn those things so quickly? We know that Darth Vowrawm get information by interrogated servant or of one of the Emperor's hand. It seems that Marr didn't get his information using the same way, or it should be at least hint during the conversation with Servant One. He seems was not informed by the Emperor or his servant either. Otherwise he should know these early, and his character would not accept such plan as far as we learn from the story. Did I miss something in the story somewhere ? It's quite likely Vowrawn TOLD Marr, They're two of the longest serving members of the dark council. at the very least they proably have some sort of under standing. especially considering their spheres require them to work together (Marr controls the military vorawn controls logistics and production) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) At the end of Makeb, Marr implies to know what the Emperor truly intended all along. Plus... If you remember the Sith Warrior story, Darth Baras turns to Marr first, while asking for help against the Sith Warrior. Then he turns to Ravage. I wouldn't be surprised that Marr had actually allied himself to Baras back then, seeing that the latter had successfully trapped the Voice -- and subsequently the Emperor -- on Voss. There's no way Marr believed that Baras could ever be the Voice of the Emperor. Edited December 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKatarn Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 How did he learn about Emperor's plan? Because he was told by Satele Shan, who learned of the Emperor's plan via Scourge during the Jedi Knight story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 There was a window of time where Marr and Satele were talking at the truce meeting, before you arrive. Since Satele knew of the plan, she could of informed him. What I want to know, is why does the player instantly beleive them? I understand the warrior as in their class quest, the plan is hinted at by the droids But the other classes (if they've played their character as a loyal patriot) just accept it. I mean, they've just heard what could be considered treason from Marr, with not a scrap of evidence to support it aside from what madman Revan is planning, and they're just like ''Okay''. Then again, my memory of the meeting is a bit foggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) There was a window of time where Marr and Satele were talking at the truce meeting, before you arrive. Since Satele knew of the plan, she could of informed him. As such, it doesn't seem likely Satele was the one to brief him. Plus, as seen , he knows far more about the Emperor's current state than the rest of the group. Better yet, why would Satele brief Marr on anything, if ten seconds ago, Edited December 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Better yet, why would Satele brief Marr on anything, if ten seconds ago, Like i said, the memory of the meeting is foggy, but I assumed that Lana/Tharan had explained to the two Revan's plan and then repeated it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YichenQin Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) At the end of Makeb, Marr implies to know what the Emperor truly intended all along. Plus... If you remember the Sith Warrior story, Darth Baras turns to Marr first, while asking for help against the Sith Warrior. Then he turns to Ravage. I wouldn't be surprised that Marr had actually allied himself to Baras back then, seeing that the latter had successfully trapped the Voice -- and subsequently the Emperor -- on Voss. There's no way Marr believed that Baras could ever be the Voice of the Emperor. As for the SW part, I believe one of the reason is that Marr seems to be the most powerful one in the Dark Council. If Marr agree to help him, it is likely the rest of the council would also agree One of question I have on he allied with Baras theory is that if he did get information frm Baras, is not he should also get more information on other part of the Emperor's inner circle, like Imperial Guard for example. Edited December 5, 2014 by YichenQin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) As for the SW part, I believe one of the reason is that Marr seems to be the most powerful one in the Dark Council. If Marr agree to help him, it is likely the rest of the council would also agree If he was as powerful as you claim, he'd have no issue making Darth Karrid the new head of the Sphere of Technology. Such was not the case, as detailed in Annihilation. He would also have no issue in making it known to the remaining Dark Council the temporary alliance that went down on Yavin 4. As detailed in this one codex entry, that will NOT come to pass. Baras on the other hand, as alluded to by Servant One , was fully aware of what the Emperor intended. Edited December 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 One of question I have on he allied with Baras theory is that if he did get information frm Baras, is not he should also get more information on other part of the Emperor's inner circle, like Imperial Guard for example. The Imperial Guard is known throughout Republic and Imperial space. Unlike the Hand it would seem: Few on the Dark Council are even aware that there is another layer of power between themselves and the Emperor: a mysterious group called the Emperor’s Hand. As seen , Darth Marr is fully aware of the Hand's existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YichenQin Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 If he was as powerful as you claim, he'd have no issue making Darth Karrid the new head of the Sphere of Technology. Such was not the case, as detailed in Annihilation. He would also have no issue in making it known to the remaining Dark Council the temporary alliance that went down on Yavin 4. As detailed in this one codex entry, that will NOT come to pass. Baras on the other hand, as alluded to by Servant One , was fully aware of what the Emperor intended. I don't know much about Darth Karrid. For the temporary alliance with Shan, I believe he has enough reason not to information other council members regardless his power. He said Dark Council won't agree with such alliance. And f he force other member to accept that, it will create distrust and divide among councilors which he clearly doesn't want when he mention Malgues and Arkus. And he also said they don't have time to bring this to the Council for debate which may or may not be just an excuse. Since he believes that this alliance is necessary and go though Dark Council is not a option, it is reasonable that he want keep other councilor in the dark on this alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) I don't know much about Darth Karrid. For the temporary alliance with Shan, I believe he has enough reason not to information other council members regardless his power. He said Dark Council won't agree with such alliance. And f he force other member to accept that, it will create distrust and divide among councilors which he clearly doesn't want when he mention Malgues and Arkus. And he also said they don't have time to bring this to the Council for debate which may or may not be just an excuse. Since he believes that this alliance is necessary and go though Dark Council is not a option, it is reasonable that he want keep other councilor in the dark on this alliance. Which only reinforces what I said earlier: He's not as powerful as you claimed among his equals. The Dark Council is all about the balance of power after all. Also, it's "Malgus" and "Arkous", though I'm not sure why you're even mentioning Malgus to begin with. The context I mean. Edited December 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausstig Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Darth Marr was told by Darth Thanaton (just before he joined the council) at the end of the "Blood of the Empire" comic. I know it was a while ago but it was on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Darth Marr was told by Darth Thanaton (just before he joined the council) at the end of the "Blood of the Empire" comic. I know it was a while ago but it was on this site. He was told about the Children of the Emperor. Different things. Plus, other people outside the Dark Council knew about their existence. or even the Jedi Council. Edited December 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YichenQin Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 Which only reinforces what I said earlier: He's not as powerful as you claimed among his equals. The Dark Council is all about the balance of power after all. Also, it's "Malgus" and "Arkous", though I'm not sure why you're even mentioning Malgus to begin with. The context I mean. If he is not, how can he be able to put Lana who was declared to be a traitor recently into Sith intelligent with very important position without much explanation(at least I don't think he had time to do it). And I still the video of makeb you link there to find about how much he know about hand. However, in the video he clearly said that sith power play is not a option for him. It shows that the issue is not his capability to overpower other councilor, he just don't want to. I here also have a theory that Marr may also in charge on Sith Intelligent which could explain about Lana and also how he so quickly learn about Isotop-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcaleb Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 If he is not, how can he be able to put Lana who was declared to be a traitor recently into Sith intelligent with very important position without much explanation(at least I don't think he had time to do it). And I still the video of makeb you link there to find about how much he know about hand. However, in the video he clearly said that sith power play is not a option for him. It shows that the issue is not his capability to overpower other councilor, he just don't want to. I here also have a theory that Marr may also in charge on Sith Intelligent which could explain about Lana and also how he so quickly learn about Isotop-5 Generally, I just assume that a lot of what he does is in fact not just done by himself. It is done with support from the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor's political power also backing it. Also, it is probably easier to get them to accept a Sith back into their ranks then it is to get them to accept even a temporary alliance with the Republic (especially after the Republic recently pissed in their cheerios by taking Korriban and trashing it). Just say she was set up by a political rival or something and never actually killed Arkous, which is actually 100% true anyway if you consider 'Revanite plants' to be 'political rivals'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) If he is not, how can he be able to put Lana who was declared to be a traitor recently into Sith intelligent with very important position without much explanation(at least I don't think he had time to do it). Her position is likely akin to that of a Minister, NOT a Dark Coucil member. And I still the video of makeb you link there to find about how much he know about hand. The fact he knew about the existence of the Hand when very few Dark Council members did speaks volumes. However, in the video he clearly said that sith power play is not a option for him. It shows that the issue is not his capability to overpower other councilor, he just don't want to. That makes little to no sense. I here also have a theory that Marr may also in charge on Sith Intelligent which could explain about Lana and also how he so quickly learn about Isotop-5 The credit goes to the former Minister of Intelligence, the original Keeper. Regardless, the aims of the new Intelligence were partly alluded to at the end of the Agent class story. Edited December 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Generally, I just assume that a lot of what he does is in fact not just done by himself. It is done with support from the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor's political power also backing it. The Sith Warrior has little to no political power or anything else for that matter. The Wrath is not meant to govern or guide -- unlike an Hutt Archon for example -- but to exert the Emperor's will. The Emperor is absent. The Dark Council is the ruling authority within the Empire, not the Wrath. Also, given the open nature of the narrative, claiming that the Inquisitor backs up Marr is a bit of a stretch. Also, it is probably easier to get them to accept a Sith back into their ranks then it is to get them to accept even a temporary alliance with the Republic (especially after the Republic recently pissed in their cheerios by taking Korriban and trashing it). Just say she was set up by a political rival or something and never actually killed Arkous, which is actually 100% true anyway if you consider 'Revanite plants' to be 'political rivals'. The Revanites wished to eradicate and / or neutralize both the Republic and the Empire. That's not rivalry, but more like enmity. As such, no need for further fabrications really. Edited December 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 The Sith Warrior has little to no political power or anything else for that matter. The Wrath is not meant to govern or guide -- unlike an Hutt Archon for example -- but to exert the Emperor's will. The Warrior has the Council's respect, however, for his martial prowess, and mostly his defeat of Darth Baras, so I'm thinking they would not ignore his words, but the Wrath backing Marr up is just as ambiguous as the Inq doing it. And yes, even though Lana's position is likely more akin to that of the Minister, keep in mind that Intelligence is not Marr's Sphere of Influence, yet he's basically in the process of forming Sith Intelligence. So where does this leave us? Does Marr, as de-facto but not de-jure leader of the Council, make these decisions himself? Or does he have several people on the Dark Council who he can generally rely on to agree with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) The Warrior has the Council's respect, however, for his martial prowess, and mostly his defeat of Darth Baras, so I'm thinking they would not ignore his words, but the Wrath backing Marr up is just as ambiguous as the Inq doing it. That seems like a stretch to say the least, seeing we really don't know what other DC members presently think. Marr seems to respect the Wrath, while Vowrawn appears to see her -- or him -- as more of a blunt instrument, with potential for far more. As far as Rictus, Ravage, Mortis, Acina and some other dude I can't remember right now, we know little next to nothing. I do remember Acina saying this concerning the Wrath: Doesn't exactly scream respect to me. And yes, even though Lana's position is likely more akin to that of the Minister, keep in mind that Intelligence is not Marr's Sphere of Influence, yet he's basically in the process of forming Sith Intelligence. So where does this leave us? Does Marr, as de-facto but not de-jure leader of the Council, make these decisions himself? Or does he have several people on the Dark Council who he can generally rely on to agree with him? More like Bioware trying not to open a can of worms, considering the outcome for the Imperial Agent story. As of right now, it is impossible to know who will be in charge of the Sphere of Intelligence -- or rather, Sith Intelligence. Is it Zhorrid? Is it Jadus? Was the latter arrested or killed by the Dark Council? Better yet, was Eradication Day a success and Zhorrid killed as a result? Is Jadus still hiding, fearing the cataclysm that the Emperor would bring upon the Galaxy? Or is he in exile, bidding the time for his return, while Zhorrid is in charge? Questions, questions. Edited December 6, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I thought Zhorrid was chased off by the other Councilors no matter what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I thought Zhorrid was chased off by the other Councilors no matter what? The original Keeper alludes to it, assuming she continues to behave erratically, but they just leave it out in the open. We'll just have to wait and see I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 The original Keeper alludes to it, assuming she continues to behave erratically, but they just leave it out in the open. We'll just have to wait and see I guess. Mh, I just took it for granted, I mean, otherwise, why not bring her back in the story when Imperial Intelligence is dissolved? Although, I didn't like the madwoman that much, I'd rather keep Lord Razer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) Mh, I just took it for granted, I mean, otherwise, why not bring her back in the story when Imperial Intelligence is dissolved? Although, I didn't like the madwoman that much, I'd rather keep Lord Razer Razer was hilarious. Stereotypical to be sure, but the VA -- Robin Atkin Downes -- just made the character sound awesome. These bits and for example... I mean, no wonder the Empire looses a third of its forces on Corellia. Some solid strategic thinking there. Edited December 6, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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