Hands up if you'd bow to Marr as your new emperor. [Marr Lore Discussion.]

[Darkelefantos]

That I agree with but then again, we do see him confronting what was -- probably -- the most powerful DC member in exercise.

 

Marr on the other hand, whenever possible, appears to adopt a watch and observe policy, regarding his fellow members. Vowrawn chose to take action; He did it yet again when he choose...

To capture and interrogate a Servant of the Hand.

 

 

I'm thinking it's because of Vowrawn's planning nature. He didn't calculate for someone as powerful as Baras' former apprentice to enter his hideout, and he apparently didn't have a backdoor to get out. I mean, it's in his codex that he's survived even frontal assault, losing the battle, but winning the war, if you will, after regrouping. Yet in this situation, there was no way out. Even still, I think he'd be the only Dark Council member to just give up without a fight

 

 

And let's be honest, at this point Vowrawn's just asking to get killed by the Emperor.

 

Edited December 6, 2014 by Darkelefantos

[Selenial]

I always thought Marr was in this game as a power vacuum, one that the Wrath and Nox will fill.

 

To have an interesting story, most of the time your characters need to be linearly gaining power. Swapping which kind of power makes it more diverse too. The Inquisitor spent act one gaining power in the force, same with 2 and 3. She then, at the end of act three, switched entirely to political power, gaining fleets, moffs and her seat on the council.

It's interesting because now she's one of the most powerful Force Users in the order, but still not the most powerful politically.

 

Marr speaks about how she is the only Councillor he can trust. You find out that Marr and her are joining their fleets in an attempt to bolster the strength of the Empire. If Marr was to die, his entire sphere is loyal to her. Whoever gains his seat on the council will be forced to subject to her, she'll control the military, the Sith Order (In her ancient knowledge seat) and Imperial Intelligence in the form of her connections to Lana Beniko and Cipher Nine.

 

Who would attain said seat on the council? Probably Wrath. He has no power now the Emperor has gone rogue, no base. What better position to ascend to than co-leader of the Dark Council, and Supreme Commander of the military.

 

Basically, when Marr falls he leaves room for the ascension of two of the most Empire-centered and strong Sith in the empire. I don't think that was an accident, he always wanted a stronger empire free from infighting. Under those two, that's exactly what he gets.

[Leaveshill]

Personally;

I would prefer if Darth Angral ruined Tython and we could bow to him.

If not Angral, (RIP My master), then I would follow Marr until the end. No doubt, Marr is an intelligent leader and a man of power. He can lead us to new victories.

[RodneyMcNeely]

I'll bow when you can bend me over, Marr!

 

Wait...

 

[Darth_Wicked]

I'll bow when you can bend me over, Marr!

 

Wait...

 

 

That came out wrong. Now you gotta...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stick to it.

[DougTbx]

I'll bow when you can bend me over, Marr!

 

Wait...

 

 

Yep that is one of those things that sounded better in your head

[Leaveshill]

I always thought Marr was in this game as a power vacuum, one that the Wrath and Nox will fill.

 

To have an interesting story, most of the time your characters need to be linearly gaining power. Swapping which kind of power makes it more diverse too. The Inquisitor spent act one gaining power in the force, same with 2 and 3. She then, at the end of act three, switched entirely to political power, gaining fleets, moffs and her seat on the council.

It's interesting because now she's one of the most powerful Force Users in the order, but still not the most powerful politically.

 

Marr speaks about how she is the only Councillor he can trust. You find out that Marr and her are joining their fleets in an attempt to bolster the strength of the Empire. If Marr was to die, his entire sphere is loyal to her. Whoever gains his seat on the council will be forced to subject to her, she'll control the military, the Sith Order (In her ancient knowledge seat) and Imperial Intelligence in the form of her connections to Lana Beniko and Cipher Nine.

 

Who would attain said seat on the council? Probably Wrath. He has no power now the Emperor has gone rogue, no base. What better position to ascend to than co-leader of the Dark Council, and Supreme Commander of the military.

 

Basically, when Marr falls he leaves room for the ascension of two of the most Empire-centered and strong Sith in the empire. I don't think that was an accident, he always wanted a stronger empire free from infighting. Under those two, that's exactly what he gets.

 

"She."

I have my doubts about a 18 year old female defeating a dashade with minimum training (Keep in mind that lorewise, the Dashade is immune or at least close to immune to force attacks,). I'm sorry, but it has to be someone with enough "Brutish" power to beat a Dashade by himself. (Weakened or not, his body is still made for killing and a litlte girl would get killed in the first five seconds).

Sorry to dissappoint, but the stories aren't really cut out for female characters. Maybe JC, and maybe IA. Even though IA are supposed to be a male for the ending-scene (you know it if you've played it, if not then I'm not gonna spoil anything)

[Rhyltran]

"She."

I have my doubts about a 18 year old female defeating a dashade with minimum training (Keep in mind that lorewise, the Dashade is immune or at least close to immune to force attacks,). I'm sorry, but it has to be someone with enough "Brutish" power to beat a Dashade by himself. (Weakened or not, his body is still made for killing and a litlte girl would get killed in the first five seconds).

Sorry to dissappoint, but the stories aren't really cut out for female characters. Maybe JC, and maybe IA. Even though IA are supposed to be a male for the ending-scene (you know it if you've played it, if not then I'm not gonna spoil anything)

 

Lol, star wars is a world where a child can amplify themselves with the force to rival the strength of an adult man. There's people who amplified themselves to be able to deflect Vader's strikes despite his size, force augmentation, and mechanical abilities. Size/Strength doesn't matter. Ruling out gender is foolish. Also a Dashade is resistant. Not immune. That means someone sufficiently powerful in the force can still harm them. It just comes down to "How much power" the person has at their disposal.

[Branosaros]

"She."

I have my doubts about a 18 year old female defeating a dashade with minimum training (Keep in mind that lorewise, the Dashade is immune or at least close to immune to force attacks,). I'm sorry, but it has to be someone with enough "Brutish" power to beat a Dashade by himself. (Weakened or not, his body is still made for killing and a litlte girl would get killed in the first five seconds).

Sorry to dissappoint, but the stories aren't really cut out for female characters. Maybe JC, and maybe IA. Even though IA are supposed to be a male for the ending-scene (you know it if you've played it, if not then I'm not gonna spoil anything)

 

You underestimate the power of the force... besides, there are some pretty tough 18 year old girls. The Inquisitor Him/herself does not fight with brute force but with force power. Satele Shan was able to hold her own against Darth Malgus, Darth Traya was the most powerful of the Triumvirate, and Shae Vizla is the most legendary mandalorian of the time to name a few. Any class can be any sex, and should be. So, stop being a male chauvinist pig and be more open minded about a game set in a universe where a single person can blow up a giant space station with a single torpedo.

 

To be honest, I think any 18 year old would hardly be a match for a Deshade. The Sith Inquisitor is an extraordinary figure, as all the heroes in SWTOR are. Wrath, Voidhound, Cipher 9, Barsen'thor, The Hero of Typhon, The Major, The Champion of the Great Hunt: these people are people of legend, they're not a run-of-the-mill Sith/Smuggler/Agent/Jedi/Trooper/Bounty Hunter.

[Leaveshill]

You underestimate the power of the force... besides, there are some pretty tough 18 year old girls. The Inquisitor Him/herself does not fight with brute force but with force power. Satele Shan was able to hold her own against Darth Malgus, Darth Traya was the most powerful of the Triumvirate, and Shae Vizla is the most legendary mandalorian of the time to name a few. Any class can be any sex, and should be. So, stop being a male chauvinist pig and be more open minded about a game set in a universe where a single person can blow up a giant space station with a single torpedo.

 

To be honest, I think any 18 year old would hardly be a match for a Deshade. The Sith Inquisitor is an extraordinary figure, as all the heroes in SWTOR are. Wrath, Voidhound, Cipher 9, Barsen'thor, The Hero of Typhon, The Major, The Champion of the Great Hunt: these people are people of legend, they're not a run-of-the-mill Sith/Smuggler/Agent/Jedi/Trooper/Bounty Hunter.

 

Of course, but keep in mind that you don't have the force when fighting Lord Paladius. He strips you of ALL force, and for "fun" he fights with lightsaber (and you cannot use the force, at all).

Still you win. Hence, it's likely a male. That brute strenght and speed, without the force, is almost impossible to get. And of cource, hardly any 18 year old would be a match for the dashade. And all heroes are extraordinary, but it's still unlogical that a 18 year old girl is capable of first defeating the Force-eating beast, and later a Sith Lord without having any connection to the Force (Due to Paladius's preperations).

So being extra-ordinary with the force matters nothing at all with the Paladius duel, it's a reason he's shocked. So, while a woman can have a high position, even a DC member, she cannot fit into the storyline of SI. Mostly because of Paladius and Khem, as she would never defeat them. Lack of Force vs Paladius and Khem's resistance would prove impossible to best.

Of course, most men would fail as well. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that the 0,0001% that can make it as SI (according to what you have to go through) are purely men. Because of these two episodes, where you literally have nothing but your own strenght.

[Selenial]

I lold.

 

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Leaveshill]

I lold.

 

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

Obvious feminist with no clear biological knowledge what so ever is obvious.

I lol'ed.

[MWidowmaker]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1132963/thumbs/o-RONDA-ROUSEY-facebook.jpg

 

i bet this girl could kick your *** very easily

[Fiamma_Verde]

Wait. You're arguing that the SI is about "brute strength" because of the fight with Palledius? I think that you put a little too much weight on the precieved advantage of testosterone. Palledius wasn't exactly in his prime, he'd really let himself go, and I'm pretty sure a physically trained woman wouldn't be disadvantaged against a man like that. I mean that's just insulting.

 

Not to mention I don't think the inquisitor was designed to be a brute regardless of gender, so your need for them to be a huge warrior is somewhat silly. They were supposed to be more conniving and intelligent, scholars over warriors, and as former slaves I doubt neither the male nor female inquisitor would have had great nutrition or training growing up.

[Jandi]

So, who thinks we'll see him eventually take up the mantle for himself? I personally think he's the right man for the job, as it stands people can still oppose him on the dark council but with ultimate dictatorship he could probably get things done and iron out a bit of unity amongst the sith/imperials.

 

Post your thoughts.

 

He would be the pefrect guy to lead the republic, too. He's the classical epitome of a great leader. He is focused on getting the job done without grandstaning, without needin applause. All he asks is loyalty and for those he commands to do their jobs.

 

To quote a historian whose name I can't recall off the top of my head.: "Great men are almost universally bad men"

 

Which means that he might not be nice, forgiving champion of justice, but he does what needs to be done, and he doesn't care about power for the sake of power.

 

My Nox will gladly follow his lead, and my Wrath will happily serve him.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Jandi

[Branosaros]

He takes advice really well. He was respectful to Darth Imperius' advice against torture on Yavin, and even to my Imperial Agent suggesting the same thing, saying that he could count on him to provide a wider view of the situation, which I thought was rather nice of him. I think he likes having some sort of foil, so that between you you can find the best way to get the job done. When I first met him on Makeb, I was slightly annoyed at his tone, and he was annoyed at mine. You earn his respect, and I think he's earned mine. If we have to have an Emperor, I can think of no better man for the job! The Emperor has run off! Long Live the Emperor!

[Darth_Wicked]

and even to my Imperial Agent suggesting the same thing, saying that he could count on him to provide a wider view of the situation, which I thought was rather nice of him.

 

Marr was being sarcastic.

 

< Sith Inquisitor >: You and I are all that stand between one another and the throne.

 

Darth Marr: And look at what the throne has done for the Emperor. This way is better.

It's odd that people root for a character they apparently know so little of. Edited January 8, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Branosaros]

Marr was being sarcastic.

 

It's odd that people root for a character they apparently know so little of.

 

Speculation, Wicked, Speculation. Seriously, I thought he was being sarcastic for second too, but I think the ambiguity is implied.

 

Also, you're doing it again. I hope it's not intentional, but you're being rather rude.

 

Also, this in itself is speculation. I never said he wouldn't or would become Emperor. This is merely saying if he wanted to be Emperor we would let him.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Branosaros

[Darth_Wicked]

Speculation, Wicked, Speculation. Seriously, I thought he was being sarcastic for second too, but I think the ambiguity is implied.

 

Judging from his response to some other classes, the sarcasm seems painstakingly obvious, especially given his tone.

 

Also, you're doing it again.

 

Dunno what you are talking about here.

 

Also, this in itself is speculation. I never said he wouldn't be.

 

There is no speculation on my part regardless. I only pointed out what the game shows.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Branosaros]

Right, I'll defend my position. I mean guessing the answer to the decision isn'the affected by prior decisions on the part of the player? We can also see that Marr trusts the Imperial Agent, thus giving him Special Commands. He also is quite respectful towards you at the end of Yavin 4. Let'a take into account the dual meaning of skewed: either biased (I am not biased towards Sateele, it is quite obvious I am on Marr's side for the most part.) or it means I've got a wider perspective. .. which for the most part I do, as it's part of being an Imperial Agent to observe the bigger picture as well as small detail, and my point was valid. Therefore, I believe I am justified in seeing it as a grudging compliment, as the sentence can't be sarcastic as saying that sentence sarcastically would make no sense in context.

 

On another note, this entire thread is speculating if we would support him shoUldale he choose to take the throne... nit proposing that he will actually do so, thus the use of the conditional, "if". We know he won't, but what if he did? So enough tutting.

[Leaveshill]

Wait. You're arguing that the SI is about "brute strength" because of the fight with Palledius? I think that you put a little too much weight on the precieved advantage of testosterone. Palledius wasn't exactly in his prime, he'd really let himself go, and I'm pretty sure a physically trained woman wouldn't be disadvantaged against a man like that. I mean that's just insulting.

 

Not to mention I don't think the inquisitor was designed to be a brute regardless of gender, so your need for them to be a huge warrior is somewhat silly. They were supposed to be more conniving and intelligent, scholars over warriors, and as former slaves I doubt neither the male nor female inquisitor would have had great nutrition or training growing up.

 

Uhm, you seem to forget that Paladius actually is a Sith Lord, his knowledge of the Force and ability to draw on it, also in lightsaber combat is the issue.

No, no women could beat a force-user with her bare hands when she has no force herself.

And I did mention Khem as the sole reason. As you cannot "shock" him to death, he's resistant to it.

And SI isn't some "Brute"; but he needs to have raw power. And slaves are usually fit to work, hence fitter than the average population. And that someone could beat a fat man to death...

Baras is also "fat", doesn't matter. He has the force, you can't defeat him without the force unless you are something special.

Women aren't special in combat. Face it. We have different "elite militaries", and NO women ever pass the trials. In Scandianvia, they're open to all. Every women that tries fail. Hence, it's supposed to be a man. I think you're the one putting too little weight on nature and it's rules. WIthout "magic" (force);then you need to be a man if you are to defeat monsters (Khem) or powerful sorceres (Paladius).

Claiming that "He's not in his prime" is just plain stupid. Nothing tells us that he's on his way down. And he's not a brute, he's a cunning man. His knowledge of the force doesn't weaken him when he gets older, it's the other way around.

And yes, some women can beat some men.

If they're lazy and ignorant. Any man that works out and eats healthy will be close to the olympic levels of women in strenght in less than two years. I personally know from my own experience. Not that you has to be "better" than them after two years, but you should be close to that levels.

 

Modern feminists have gone completely insane in this regard. They don't see reason, as they want to see 100% equality everywhere. But genetics play a role, and people are different. And beating Khem and then Paladius (without using the force) is not possible for a 50 kg women.

Just like you has to play a human for the storyline of SI, you also has to play a male. People can toy around as much they like, but that's how it is.

 

SI should be cunning, his wits are his prime weapon. He should still be extremely fit, a master of martial arts as well as a sorcerer. Of course this isn't really relevant to our thread, all haill Marr again.

 

But it's still facts. That you like to watch your character's *** for some reason doesn't make it less true. Having 50% female 50% male heroes are just as stupid as having 100% male, if not more. But they're scared for the "gamer feminists", as they go berserk on every turn if the women isn't given a huge enough role. SI doesn't fit to be a woman because of Khem. Paladius is just another example to why SI should not be a woman. If they go with a "her" after they finish this game and create the "official story" like they did in KOTOR, then I'd be suprised. But who knows, maybe they never intended a gender and just share it equally afterwards.

[dcaleb]

Palladius had a magical force nullifying artifact and he was still only a Lord, it is safe to say that the man was a total chump.

[Leaveshill]

Palladius had a magical force nullifying artifact and he was still only a Lord, it is safe to say that the man was a total chump.

 

That total chump has killed Sith before though. "Only a Lord", keep in mind that Sith Lords are amongst the most powerful. They're on the same "level" as Jedi Masters, but in most cases they've earned their place with more violence than Jedi.

 

He's still better than the average force user, no matter how "chumpish" he is. And as I stated, Khem is the "main" reason for it being a mistake (for SI to be female).

Paladius is however a second. Paladius would't lose a duel to a female when she has no connection to the force left.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Leaveshill

[DougTbx]

LOL don't let the Bobba Fett crowd hear you claim non-force users can't beat force users. But back to the SI, Palladius's little trick apparently didn't completely sever or block the SI's force connection as in the fight they could still throw force attacks, just it was harder while the effect was up. Also the fat man was clearly shocked by this as apparently the other Sith who he had used it on hadn't been able to resist the effect at all, making them easy kills.

[Leaveshill]

LOL don't let the Bobba Fett crowd hear you claim non-force users can't beat force users. But back to the SI, Palladius's little trick apparently didn't completely sever or block the SI's force connection as in the fight they could still throw force attacks, just it was harder while the effect was up. Also the fat man was clearly shocked by this as apparently the other Sith who he had used it on hadn't been able to resist the effect at all, making them easy kills.

 

A) Boba Fett is after all one of the greatest fighters in the galaxy, and he's a male. As I stated earlier, no female could beat a sith lord or a dashade without the Force or superior weapons. I Don't claim that you NEED the force, but I'm claiming that no women without the Force can be that strong. Biological laws and all, they do after all matter in all fantasy as well.

B) Of course you cannot be "silenced" for the entire fight. It's a game, and as Sorcerer you basicially have "Trash" and "Saber strike" with the saber, both hits for like 0,5% of his health. You're not capable of having a connection with the force until you defeat him, and then you're "back on track" and he's shocked. It's like ;

You fight Baras with one of your companions, probably your apprentice

How would that be accepted as a duel? It's not a duel, it's a freaking 2v1 and the Council would intervene, murdering both of wrath and his servants.

The abilities and fights in the game aren't relevant. I killed Skotia without using the device, he'll not be like "omg you're the strongest apprentice ever", he'll be complaining about how "Zash killed him" even though I ruined him myself. (Lvl 15 sorcerer, lightning).

It doesn't matter. It's supposed to be; Weaken Skotia, beat him. Then he'll be shocked.

 

And you don't have the force when fighting Paladius. That's why you TRY to shock him and he laughs at you. The connection has been broken.

 

BUt again, I never doubt that the greatest of men can defeat Jedi without superior weapons. But women cannot, they're much weaker biologically and for them to beat someone like Paladius, (Or even worse, Khem), then they must take full advantage of the Force. Not having the Force means ; Dead in both those scenarios.