I would gladly give back medshot for the slower effect of hammershot heals.

[Ghisallo]

Yes. You are complaining about something founded in a quantifiable value...X number of keybinds. You complain there were already too many keybinds. You then admit that due to their nature there are a lot of abilities/consumables etc, that you do not have to key bind. Since the problem already existed and this simply exacerbated it, where was that cut off? How many is too many? It is disingenuous in the extreme to complain there is too much of something and not say how many is okay. If you didn't have an existing issue it would be fine to argue that this issue crossed the line but you have had the issue for sometime.

 

I am also wondering just how much crap you do have keybound and how many keys you actually bother using since you say you have already exhausted [shift] and [control].

Edited December 17, 2014 by Ghisallo

[SiegePro]

The fact that Combat medics have 37 active abilities (no I don't have all of them bound and I'm not including buffs/cells/sprint/huttball pass etc) and stims/medpacks for pvp & pve is simply an additional reason that this change is problematic and a hindrance not a sole reason but I'm pretty sure that number of abilities could be cut down significantly to respond only to your question.

Just how bad are your binds that you have difficulty with 37 active abilities that you don't even use all of them in combat? I have 36 binds on my board before I even have to touch control or shift...

 

Bar 1: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,-,=

Bar 2: `, backspace, \, insert, delete, end, home, page up, page down, num7, num8, num9

Bar 3: num/, num*, num-, num+, num4, num5, num6, num1, num2, num3, num0, numdecimal

 

That's not even touching the prebound Tab for targeting, F1-12 keys, or any of the actual letters on the keyboard (I usually have R, T, Y and U bound on Bar 4 for personal uses too with the other 8 for powers like my various Quick Travels, Binocs and Probe, plus my hour-long self buffs that I don't need a hot key for since they're never used during a fight).

 

In short there's no shortage of decent bind locations for every legitimate power you'd need to use and the only reason you're complaining is because you feel you're such a special snowflake that having to spend even few minutes retraining your muscle memory to use a button in a slightly different place is too much effort for you to have to contend with. Are you really such a lousy player that this change makes it impossible for you to play?

 

Because everyone else has already spent the 15-20 minutes (maybe half and hour if you're slow like me) it took to reshuffle their powers and get used to the new rotations/positions (Vortex Bolt is sitting where High Impact Bolt used to and High Impact Bolt replaced whatever the heck the close range lightning arc I never used was) and moved on to having fun playing the game again. What's your excuse?

 

The sad part is that you seriously think your whining and complaining here will make it change back. They're not... they know the message boards are where complainers come (the people happy with the change are mostly playing the game... or they're on their lunch break like me) and yet even in complainer central you can't muster any sort of majority to your cause.

[Evuriday]

I agree this change is silly and should be reverted ASAP lol this game already has too many abilities with no macro system so players can reduce action bars without completely taking down a skill... A little more ability consolidation would be awesome just my opinion

[Wasbeer]

Responding to a few in one here so no quote this time. Sure you can have hundreds of keybinds if you really wanted to and add more abilities but that doesn't make it a good idea. As for spreading out all across the keyboard with binds and never using shift or ctrl or whatever may be a person's preference for combinations isn't exactly ideal either. You're now adding wide range of movement to your control setup which again slows up reaction and breaks the flow of ability use. BW has not yet come to the realization that with every level cap increase or expansion new abilities are not required to be added to make gameplay interesting or fun. Splitting a perfectly fine ability like hammershot into two separate abilities was redundant and anti-productive for streamlining & gameplay. I have been putting up with this change for a while now and as much as I may be "used" to it I still hate the change and that wont go away. Ability bars don't need more bloating, they need streamlining and creative thought into making them fun and tactical.

[Frenesi]

You see, this thing is actually useful for DPS. Not to heal, but to build supercharge without spending heroic point on it.

 

And to every healer who says "DPS don't need to heal" i will say - why do you need to deal damage?

[Wasbeer]

You see, this thing is actually useful for DPS. Not to heal, but to build supercharge without spending heroic point on it.

 

And to every healer who says "DPS don't need to heal" i will say - why do you need to deal damage?

 

To smack people upside the head with when they make comments like that, that's what medpacks, healing companions, and heal spec players are for. HOWEVER, if you really want a heal so bad why do healers have to get their ability jacked to do it? They can easily grant a separate dps only heal. This would not only benefit healers as they would be able to keep hammershot heals but it would also allow for a more fine tuned balancing on the heal itself for dps as it could be tweaked however is needed to suit the role without ever affecting healers.

[TezMoney]

To smack people upside the head with when they make comments like that, that's what medpacks, healing companions, and heal spec players are for. HOWEVER, if you really want a heal so bad why do healers have to get their ability jacked to do it? They can easily grant a separate dps only heal. This would not only benefit healers as they would be able to keep hammershot heals but it would also allow for a more fine tuned balancing on the heal itself for dps as it could be tweaked however is needed to suit the role without ever affecting healers.

 

I've already shown you why this not easy or simple to do, please stop saying it

[Wasbeer]

I've already shown you why this not easy or simple to do, please stop saying it

 

I'm sorry you're so closed minded but they can do it, there is no binding rule that prevents it as they are not limited like you think. EVEN if it were slightly how yout hink granting the new heal to dps and letting heals keep the old one will not unbalance the two by any number you can come up with. The healers would still have their original heal and dps would have the heal they wanted. As I said in my last post if anything it allows BW to balance out the two more effectively as they are separate and can be tweaked individually to suit needs. By changing hammershot back for healers, combat medics will get one keybind slot back and dps will have the heal they wanted without losing a keybind because t hey lost probes, balance.

[Frenesi]

To smack people upside the head with when they make comments like that, that's what medpacks, healing companions, and heal spec players are for. HOWEVER, if you really want a heal so bad why do healers have to get their ability jacked to do it? They can easily grant a separate dps only heal. This would not only benefit healers as they would be able to keep hammershot heals but it would also allow for a more fine tuned balancing on the heal itself for dps as it could be tweaked however is needed to suit the role without ever affecting healers.

 

They can't. Becouse amount of skills you get from disciplines is limited, and to fetch in your proposed heal we will loose something. Also, why the hell DPS need dedicated heal in their discipline? It's waste of level.

 

Once again. Current state of skill is benefitial to 2 specs out of 3. Not due to heal, but due to utility it provides. The only complainers are healers too lazy to rearrange their skillbars. Since skill works exactly the same as before, your only real complaint boils down to "Oh, but i want to deal damage with my AA". But I, as DPS, want to heal with med shots. I'm just as right (actually, not) as you are. The only difference - I DO get something useful out of it, unlike you whiners. Majority wins if things stay that way. Adapt.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Frenesi

[Wasbeer]

They can't. Becouse amount of skills you get from disciplines is limited, and to fetch in your proposed heal we will loose something. Also, why the hell DPS need dedicated skill in their discipline? It's waste of level.

 

Once again. Current state of skill is benefitial to 2 specs out of 3. Not due to heal, but due to utility it provides. The only complainers are healers too lazy to rearrange their skillbars. Since skill works exactly the same as before, your only real complaint boils down to "Oh, but i want to deal damage with my AA". But I, as DPS, want to heal with med shots. I'm just as right (actually, not) as you are. The only difference - I DO get something useful out of it, unlike you whiners. Majority wins if things stay that way. Adapt.

 

You're over focusing on exact mirroring on ability count and the progression tree. Fact of the matter is the ability counts between classes and advanced classes are not equal and do not need to be for balance. What matters is flow and effect, impact in PVE and PVP.

 

I have provided a very basic and easy to implement solution that would favor both sides, but to show it could be even more simple than that bw could still grant hammershot heals and keep medshot for both if you even wanted. Nobody would use both hammershot heals and medshot heals as they have the same heal effect over the same time just dispersed differently. So dps could stay in their discipline's cell and have the heal they so desire without ever having to swap into support cell. Meanwhile healers would be able to heal with hammershot no big deal and save that hotbar space or if you're a weirdo like tez and don't like a streamlined game you can just use medshot instead even though with medshot in most situations self targeting is still required to avoid an unintended target swap when healing a group.

 

It's really a VERY simple thing.

[TezMoney]

You're over focusing on exact mirroring on ability count and the progression tree. Fact of the matter is the ability counts between classes and advanced classes are not equal and do not need to be for balance. What matters is flow and effect, impact in PVE and PVP.

 

I have provided a very basic and easy to implement solution that would favor both sides, but to show it could be even more simple than that bw could still grant hammershot heals and keep medshot for both if you even wanted. Nobody would use both hammershot heals and medshot heals as they have the same heal effect over the same time just dispersed differently. So dps could stay in their discipline's cell and have the heal they so desire without ever having to swap into support cell. Meanwhile healers would be able to heal with hammershot no big deal and save that hotbar space or if you're a weirdo like tez and don't like a streamlined game you can just use medshot instead even though with medshot in most situations self targeting is still required to avoid an unintended target swap when healing a group.

 

It's really a VERY simple thing.

 

You lack of basic understanding is baffling at this point. It's only simple to you because you ignore everything that's inconvenient to your idea.

 

It has nothing to do with mirror classes or number of abilities between classes. It's a fundamental pillar of the discipline system. For any given AC, the only abilities unique to a specific spec are from the tree. The only way around this are passives whose effects change based on different stances,cylinders, ect. There is simply no way to give a spec a unique ability without putting it in the discipline tree, or the dev's would be breaking the system they themselves created.

 

Now on to your idea of having two abilities with essentially the same effect... How is THAT streamlined again? You say there are too many moves but now want to add another move? Also dps would still be able to use rapid shot as a heal, so now you've introduced an issue where dps would feel forced to use the rapid shot heal since its three ticks allow for higher effective crit chance meaning more Advanced Targeting procs. Which then begs the question, why do we even have K Shots at that point. Or even if the devs want to tweak healing for dps so buff K shots, now healers will be compelled to use it instead or vica versa.

 

But hey... I'm a wierdo

 

The ad hominem is strong with this one

Edited December 22, 2014 by TezMoney

[Wasbeer]

You lack of basic understanding is baffling at this point. It's only simple to you because you ignore everything that's inconvenient to your idea.

 

It has nothing to do with mirror classes or number of abilities between classes. It's a fundamental pillar of the discipline system. For any given AC, the only abilities unique to a specific spec are from the tree. The only way around this are passives whose effects change based on different stances,cylinders, ect. There is simply no way to give a spec a unique ability without putting it in the discipline tree, or the dev's would be breaking the system they themselves created.

 

Now on to your idea of having two abilities with essentially the same effect... How is THAT streamlined again? Also dps would still be able to use rapid shot as a heal, so now you've introduced an issue where dps would feel forced to use the rapid shot heal since its three ticks allow for higher effective crit chance meaning more Advanced Targeting procs. Which then begs the question, why do we even have K Shots at that point.

 

But hey... I'm a wierdo

 

The ad hominem is strong with this one

 

You didn't read anything I'd written yet again did you? None of the suggestions I've made wether they follow your idea of the way disciplines, trees, utilities etc work would break anything. In no way would what I've suggested be game breaking or unbalance things.

 

With the latter suggestion which meets further in the middle to make both sides happy dps would continue to use medshot as hammershot would still require support cell to have its healing effect. It would be ineffective for them to swap in and out of support cell to use hammershot heals and make doing so undesirable. As for healers they would be able to use either but both have t he same CD/time and effect so it doesn't really matter which they chose to use in terms of balance. What it breaks down to is those who like a streamlined combo ability and are capable of using self target can do so where as others such as yourself can use medshot instead. If you are still concerned about the HOT having a chance to crit on ticks that could be made into a single heal effect like medshot. Really this is not rocket science and you are just flaming this thread, my suggestions have been sound and reasonable and I have been more than happy to try to appease both sides as the "discussion" has gone on while you have just been sitting there saying no over and over again without really providing a strong basis of reason other than that you don't think the system can support it when it's more than capable as it has already been.

 

Disciplines while a large change has not really changed much, the disciplines merely represent skill progression as you level up, while the utilities are the new talent condensed talent trees. The discipline tree merely gives you information to read about your advanced class choice's effects and abilities. You could in essence consider it a manual to abilities you would be training from your class trainer where as at certain levels the abilities are gained or improved upon.

[TezMoney]

You didn't read anything I'd written yet again did you? None of the suggestions I've made wether they follow your idea of the way disciplines, trees, utilities etc work would break anything. In no way would what I've suggested be game breaking or unbalance things.

Yeah sorry I didn't read any of your post since you didn't reply to my last one. I addressed your later suggestion in my post so I'm not sure why you even made that comment. It's not MY idea BTW, it's actually how the discipline system works, geez it's gotta be hard to be this in denial.

With the latter suggestion which meets further in the middle to make both sides happy dps would continue to use medshot as hammershot would still require support cell to have its healing effect. It would be ineffective for them to swap in and out of support cell to use hammershot heals and make doing so undesirable. As for healers they would be able to use either but both have t he same CD/time and effect so it doesn't really matter which they chose to use in terms of balance. What it breaks down to is those who like a streamlined combo ability and are capable of using self target can do so where as others such as yourself can use medshot instead. If you are still concerned about the HOT having a chance to crit on ticks that could be made into a single heal effect like medshot. Really this is not rocket science and you are just flaming this thread, my suggestions have been sound and reasonable and I have been more than happy to try to appease both sides as the "discussion" has gone on while you have just been sitting there saying no over and over again without really providing a strong basis of reason other than that you don't think the system can support it when it's more than capable as it has already been.

Like I said in my last post, your add an ability after complaining about having too many abilities. Not to mention this would be 100% redundant one that could cause issues in the future or because of it's nature can never be tweaked. Since when does redundancy make for good game design? They also can't make rapid shot tick once, that's why it ticked 3 times in the first, this was addressed in one of the old rep Q & A's, and another reason they made a separate heal. Before you say "the dev's can do anything"... They can do a lot, but something are a lot more trouble than they're worth.

 

For the record, me disagreeing with you isn't flaming. Unlike you I haven't resorted to name calling. As for your opinion of your suggestions... it's just that, an opinion. Not a very bias one either. I don't find them sound at all.

Disciplines while a large change has not really changed much, the disciplines merely represent skill progression as you level up, while the utilities are the new talent condensed talent trees. The discipline tree merely gives you information to read about your advanced class choice's effects and abilities. You could in essence consider it a manual to abilities you would be training from your class trainer where as at certain levels the abilities are gained or improved upon.

 

Again, you're wrong. The discipline system isn't some abstract thing, you actually get abilities from it. It's purpose isn't just for the leveling process or to explain how to use your class, but to make balancing between a AC's spec easier. That's why moves like blazing bolts exist.

Edited December 22, 2014 by TezMoney

[Wasbeer]

Yeah sorry I didn't read any of your post

Time and time again, you don't read it and you don't take a moment to think about what I've said At this point I'm just going to be ignoring you, thanks for all the bumps.

[TezMoney]

Time and time again, you don't read it and you don't take a moment to think about what I've said At this point I'm just going to be ignoring you, thanks for all the bumps.

 

So you ignored my entire post and then took half a sentence out of context? The hypocrisy is hilarious! All ignoring me does is show everyone how terrible your position is

Edited December 23, 2014 by TezMoney

[Wasbeer]

So you ignored my entire post and then took half a sentence out of context? The hypocrisy is hilarious! All ignoring me does is show everyone how terrible your position is

 

Thanks for another bump.

[TezMoney]

Thanks for another bump.

 

Having trouble with both ignoring AND reading comprehension?

[Wasbeer]

Having trouble with both ignoring AND reading comprehension?

 

Thanks for yet another bump.

[TezMoney]

Thanks for yet another bump.

 

If we keep this up they'll prolly just remove the thread

[MiaowZedong]

While, for the sake of my sanity and shorter button reshuffles when respeccing, I would gladly go back to having Rapid Shots heal allies, it's a fairly minor issue. Having one button do both things depending on the target is better UI design for a game that suffers from severe button bloat as it is, but it's hardly a show-stopper.

 

It's also beyond weird that there's a utility that gives you Supercharged charges while resting, when everyone can just spam Kolto Shot and achieve the same effect at the cost of very minor annoyance. Really makes zero sense.

Edited December 24, 2014 by MiaowZedong

[Frenesi]

 

It's also beyond weird that there's a utility that gives you Supercharged charges while resting, when everyone can just spam Kolto Shot and achieve the same effect at the cost of very minor annoyance. Really makes zero sense.

 

The less we speak about KS supercharge generation, the later they will remove it

[Saikochoro]

I'd giveback Ned shot for the original animation of rapid shots in healer stance. That was a cool animation.

[Wasbeer]

I'd giveback Ned shot for the original animation of rapid shots in healer stance. That was a cool animation.

 

Mercs did have a more interesting animation, it has gone unchanged for commandos. Shoots a steady giant green beam (HELLO WORLD LOOK I'M A HEALER BEAM) and has silly recoil as if you were firing large rounds out of it.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Wasbeer