12x XP Subscribers

[SpyhunterUK]

I left the game some time ago and came back to level up some of my other characters (I have one Lvl 55 character), as it had 12x XP on class missions. This was a great way to get me back and I believe you should keep some sort of subscriber process to 12x XP. Even if only for additional characters after you hit the level cap (then 55, soon 60 ).

 

It means I can do the class mission on my other characters without the need to rank up the xp doing the side quests that I have already done. It's a great way to get subscribers as well, offering it as 12x XP all the time on class missions.

 

Please!!!!

[Feargal]

I support some kind of XP boost for subs who have leveled one toon "the hard way."

[hachibushu]

I support some kind of XP boost for subs who have leveled one toon "the hard way."

 

I still don't get the reasoning behind this. If you've leveled one toon "the hard way", those skills aren't necessarily going to carry over to a new class. So, taking out the l2p argument- what is the reasoning?

[Makrogai]

Personally, I hope it can be used for people who haven't got a level 55 the hard way. I got to level 44 on my sniper before I just gave up. Only with the buff I managed to get 3 max levels. Regret that I didn't level a Imperial agent, their new armor looks sick.

[Feargal]

I still don't get the reasoning behind this. If you've leveled one toon "the hard way", those skills aren't necessarily going to carry over to a new class. So, taking out the l2p argument- what is the reasoning?

 

The L2P argument is invalid for those who just want to play casually. I leveled 5 or 6 toons during 12x XP. I had a blast. I feel like I "L2P" as well as I needed to do what I like to do. The endgame raiding option doesn't really interest me, and a lot of people are left out because groups only accept max geared and experienced raiders, so learning the intricacies of each class isn't really my thing.

 

On the other hand, if you -aren't- like me, you always have the option of doing every side quest and learning everything about every class. I simply support an option for both kinds of players.

[hachibushu]

The L2P argument is invalid for those who just want to play casually. I leveled 5 or 6 toons during 12x XP. I had a blast. I feel like I "L2P" as well as I needed to do what I like to do. The endgame raiding option doesn't really interest me, and a lot of people are left out because groups only accept max geared and experienced raiders, so learning the intricacies of each class isn't really my thing.

 

On the other hand, if you -aren't- like me, you always have the option of doing every side quest and learning everything about every class. I simply support an option for both kinds of players.

 

You get that I wasn't saying l2p? There are people that use this as their sole argument why 12x shouldn't be in the game. Or why they should limit it. So taking that away... I was trying to find out the other reasoning. I'm casual.. and the 12x lets me experience more of the game without getting burned out in the leveling process as I do in most games.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Its beyond the L2P.

 

MMO's are built and designed for social game play. While SWTOR is more casual friendly than same, its still not a good option to create too many 'tiers' of leveling progression as it damages the experience for ALL players involved and could possibly have revenue stream repercussions for EA/Bioware.

 

Already f2p characters level more slowly than do a subscription. Add to this there are experience bonuses for being guilded etc, and so at present, we have this:

 

f2p Levels at 1.0

Subscriptions levels at 1.10

Bons Exp levels as 12.10.

 

Or: Visually

 

00000

00000o

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000o

 

Top bar = f2p progression speed

Middle bar = subscriber progression speed

Bottom bar = subscription progression speed desired by people pro 12x exp.

 

Roughly proportional.

 

This means one group of players will never be, outside the very first moments of their characters life, in the same area as characters made at the same time.

 

This diminishes the availability of leveling companions, the options for socializing new players into the game, the availability of players to do quests that, by design, were made for more than one player, etc.

 

Some things like your low level introductory flashpoint become even harder for non 12x players to experience and complete.

 

Etc.

 

Essentially it blows away the whole progression model of the game and the very foundation of RPG's etc.

 

Its like taking your weekly pen and paper DnD session and finishing it in one weekend. And the DM only has 8 stories in him, so after a month and a half or so, he's completely out of material for you and unfortunately, he's always going to be out of material for you as he can't make any new stories. He may be able to embellish the 8 stories you have already told, but the embellishment will only be a few minutes of time and so you could do all 8 of those in a weekend, and it takes him a LONG time to come up with those minor embellishments.

 

What 12x EXP is asking for is, for all intents and purposes, asking for a Tell Tale Games style MMO, (Walking dead Seasons 1 &2, Wolf Among Us, Tales from the Borderlands and Game of Thrones.. plus older ones as well) where you basically sit and click a button every now and again in a cut screen.

 

That's not a good change overall. I get that some people really enjoyed it for creating their alts but once you have all 8 classes exhausted you have nothing left.

 

This will, in the long term, diminish your engagement in the game and potentially cost EA/BioWare more.

 

In my own opinion, having a 12x leveling bonus at all was a short sighted idea that was not really thought out well by BioWare/EA as they now whetted the appetites of players for their own future diminishment.

 

I have one of each advanced class., 4 of them yet to be leveled beyond 15-17, the rest of them are 55+ That's 16 characters. I've seen each story line twice for the most part. I know how long that takes (as I have intentionally avoided using the 12x to level) but in the long run its better for the game/community to not have such a drastic variation in 'tiers' of leveling rate of progression.

 

Its better for the community to have more players in the same general range as one another, and not have a class of players who bypass everything the game offers.

 

There are also then significant changes to the in game economy. Significant demand at specific gear points will increase prices at those gear points. While this likely doesn't affect a long term player with multiple alts, it does create a barrier for any new player trying to advance their characters in the 'traditional and 'required' manner if they haven't gotten the super special bypass the game key yet.... It puts extraordinary pressure on those early levels while then also changing the 'end game' economy as well.

 

There are so many other factors that are affected by this change in the progression and most people are too busy looking at just a single aspect of the game systems to think about what happens to the rest of the game.

 

For all intents, you are taking a RPG and turning it into watching an interactive youtube video and I for one am opposed to this.

 

MAYBE allow a single (one per account) purchased 'top tier' character.. so buy into the top tier.. and if you want you can go back and do all the class quests really easy. But for the game to be vital for all the people who are not using/do not have 12x experience for class missions, its important that the 12x doesn't exist at all.

Edited December 4, 2014 by EnkiduNineEight

[Sandreid]

I personally just think they should sell the 12x exp boost in the cartel market. I would pay for that for sure. That way you can also level "the hard way" if you want to, even if you are a sub.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I personally just think they should sell the 12x exp boost in the cartel market. I would pay for that for sure. That way you can also level "the hard way" if you want to, even if you are a sub.

 

 

That still creates a significant problem in the system as a whole. It also definitely becomes a 'pay 2 perform' which is a bad thing to have in any mmo.

[hachibushu]

That still creates a significant problem in the system as a whole. It also definitely becomes a 'pay 2 perform' which is a bad thing to have in any mmo.

 

I'll reply to both of your posts in one (and thanks for the well-formulated response- no matter how much I disagree, I do enjoy a well argued debate).

 

In order to get the SoR boost, one would have had to pre-purchase the expansion. So as of yet, we've only seen the effect when a subgroup purchases that expansion.

 

Out of that subgroup, how many do you think that sight unseen purchased SoR? We don't have the numbers, but considering the fact that this is an expansion to a relatively old game, I'd posit that most purchasers are those that (a) are already interested in the game, (b) are joining because of friends in the game, or © are re-joining because of SoR.

 

By changing to this subgroup, we see that your suppositions seem to lose steam. Those that are already interested in the game have conceivably already leveled to an extent with their main, and were the targets to get to the endgame to experience the new content and be social with friends who are already there. Those that joined because of friends have their friends to be social with to whichever extent, and those that re-joined didn't *want* the experience that you speak of, because otherwise they would have been playing that experience.

 

To bring it to a personal level, I have 16 characters - 8 on Ebon Hawk, and 8 on Pot5. The side quests are frankly boring. The flashpoints are nice the first time, but then they get boring. However, in normal leveling, in order to see the content that they (BW) spent the most money on and was their primary draw- I had to force myself to go through these same quests multiple times. It burned me out. I stayed subbed, because I wanted to support the game, but every time i got back into the game, I was shortly back out- to the extent that I was mulling over dropping my sub.

 

At this point, I'm back in. I only finished one class quest up to now... but boy it was epic! I have a couple of characters in their 40s at this point... that's how casual I am that even with the 12x, I only leveled one to (almost) max, and 3 to their 40s.

 

Now, you might say "what happens when you get to level cap and there is nothing to do?" But there is. The problem that I had on a couple of toons is that I couldn't play the other parts of the game without outleveling the content. I love the warzones, huttball, starfighter... etc. But I couldn't play them while leveling without forcing myself to be even *more* bored with side content because I'd effectively trivialized it with my PvP gains... but I still had to do it in order to see the side quests.

 

I think your arguments really only apply to those that are starting fresh. The others... just want to play the way that they want to play.

[xPVTx]

I agree! Please keep or put a pay option for the 12x XP for class quests!

[EnkiduNineEight]

The argument 'let people play the way they want to play' makes no sense. Should we apply this to every other game? Should we hand out trophies from the start so everyone feels that they are being adequately rewarded for their participation?

 

This is a game, and it has a structure and rules set that exists to make the game 'more or less' equivalent to most of its players.

 

When it went f2p they modified this rules set significantly and created two classes of player, and one of these classes of player are significantly hampered in their speed of leveling when compared to a subscriber. There are ways they can mitigate this but they are still lesser. This is acceptable in the rules set because it is a necessary inducement to attempt to convert f2p to subscribers because ultimately, the purpose of this game is to provide the developer and producer with money.

 

The 'subscriber' class is the class of player who has already bought into the concept of the game and believe it is worth their 15$ a month (or less with multiple months) to continue to play.

 

What people are suggesting is adding yet another tier of player, someone who can either pay to outperform other players (be they subs or f2p) or someone who feels a sense of entitlement because they have already made one or more accomplishments in game and they don't think they should have to repeat the content to see the content.

 

Unfortunately, their skipping that content, damages the two other classes of player. By skipping the content they evidence that they want to consume game resources, but not contribute to game play. While you can play this game solo (and I largely do this myself) it is, at its heart, and balanced around, being a multiplayer game. There are diminished player presences in the path to end game and this harms anyone who is chosing to play the game by the established rules set.

 

I understand your inherently selfish reasons for wanting hyper-advancement but most are completely unwilling to call it what it is, completely selfish desire to not have to play the game by the rules and systems it is intended to be played by at the detriment to everyone who is playing within that rules set.

 

I do get it, you want to see the various class storylines. Youtube is over there ------->

 

The developers of the game should not change the game, and significantly disrupt its flow, its economy, etc because there are a subset of players who think that because they have done something once, they should be able to do it 12 times as fast as everyone else because they are 'bored'.

 

That argument, again, loses weight when the ultimate result is that they are bored again once they are done.

 

You do not go to Vegas and once you have been dealt a straight flush, get to be dealt straight flushes at 12x the rate just because... you know.. you want to see the end game and you want all its rewards, but you are bored of all the stuff in between.

 

You do not get to automatically play in the playoffs because you won the Super Bowl/World Series/Stanley Cup/Etc once and now think that all the games leading up to it are 'boring' and the league should just let you play the way you want to play because 'what's the harm?'

 

Your inability or unwillingness to see a harm, does not mean there is no harm.

 

Yes, you've seen the quests before. Funny thing is, you do not need to do all the quests to level to end game as the game has already been significantly watered down since release and its even further watered down when you build your alt stable. Anyone who has leveled more than one character to 55 knows that each additional character is that much easier to level as the game already exists.

 

I get that you believe that you are doing no harm and you just want to have the ability to pay extra or get some benefit because you've been around awhile so that you can play the way you want to play. I'm sorry, that is not how it works and when you create those systems you create a significant and damaging imbalance in the game for all those players who are playing 'by the rules'.

[oeberge]

I've been writing this in another thread, but will cut and paste the main points here.

 

I'm totally agreeing to keep the 12 xp buff. Make it like in wow - you can choose to freeze your xp gain with an in game character - but in swtor it can be a buff like someone wrote earlier.

 

I've been a subscriber without playing much, on and off since 2012. I rejoined when I read about the expansion and the 12 xp thing.

 

And I haven't had so much fun in years playing an mmo!! I - like many others - want two of every class, just to learn every side of every class.

 

It's the storyline that's interesting - and yes - I even did side quest when I had the xp buff, just because I had the option of the xp boost if I wanted too. I even did flash points - I even do low level flash points now and then, for my guildies or just for fun.

And - I speak for myself - I like to play different roles, and at some level master them. If I want to learn the role as a tank, I usually ask someone to teach me - like I did in wow. Same for healer, for dps I read ALOT in forums, talk with others etc. for best spec, rotation etc to max out my dmg. So I won't enter a raid without knowing what to do, or enters with my guild so they can educate me. Learning different classes abilities

 

All mmos are a grind feast, and when I have to grind my way to max level, I'm usually bored to start the grind at max level for gear etc. I like the storyline best, I like talking to my guildies and in game friends - that's what's keeping me.

 

So let's get 12 xp boost, and make it a buff so we can choose to turn it on/off at will.

 

And - to be frankly - ofc I want the game to be best for my own liking - everybody have their own agenda in this argument - like everything else in real life. I got more enjoyment of the 12 xp boost, and want it back. Now I'm subbed for another 3 months, so I will stay as long as I got my okay time. Continue after that - don't know - but I want my tank up and running for end game content first - maybe my healer, and my dps, and so on...

 

I just love the feeling of swinging a lightsaber...

[Makrogai]

You dont win anything by reaching max level faster than others, It's not pay to win. Also, I'm not leveling a single toon till I get my buff back

[hachibushu]

<snip />

 

I get that you believe that you are doing no harm and you just want to have the ability to pay extra or get some benefit because you've been around awhile so that you can play the way you want to play. I'm sorry, that is not how it works and when you create those systems you create a significant and damaging imbalance in the game for all those players who are playing 'by the rules'.

 

Now we're getting out of the debating with the ad hominem attacks. So I'm out. But I did want to point out a large logical fallacy in your post.

 

The rules of the game are what they say they are. Not what I say, nor what you say. They change all the time- look at the SoR update. That was a major change. So your conclusion of 'playing by the rules' is not a valid argument. I'd respond to the rest... but I can see the hill around your youtube remark, completely missing the point and it's a steep incline from that condescension.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Now we're getting out of the debating with the ad hominem attacks. So I'm out. But I did want to point out a large logical fallacy in your post.

 

The rules of the game are what they say they are. Not what I say, nor what you say. They change all the time- look at the SoR update. That was a major change. So your conclusion of 'playing by the rules' is not a valid argument. I'd respond to the rest... but I can see the hill around your youtube remark, completely missing the point and it's a steep incline from that condescension.

 

The rules do change, but when they change, they change toward the same end which was mentioned prior. That the experience for everyone in the game is roughly equal. 12x xp, whether purchased, or 'earned' by getting a legacy achievement, etc would be a rules change that works opposite that rules philosophy and would instead be creating an unequal game type.

 

I could significantly benefit from 12x xp. I've likely spend more on cartel coins than anyone in this thread or others. I've been legacy level 50 for quite some time. I have 12 characters at 55+ already. By any standard being mentioned as the means of providing this buff, I would benefit.

 

I am still opposed because there are a number of significantly harmful results over time and this idea is born simply out of selfishness. Maybe that leads to some ad hominem out of my frustration with the failure on the part of those who favour this to admit it.

 

The change is desired simply because someone wants to go faster. They believe they are entitled to go faster because they've already done stuff before so why should they have to do it again. Its just a game. Why does how I play matter to you... they exclaim. It all reeks of narcissism and an inability to look beyond their own noses as they demand an entitlement that will do damage to the game overall in multiple ways.

 

If you would like a pure single player game experience, these exist in multiple forms outside of the MMORPG realm. Once you start playing a MMORPG you're going to have to bump up against the fact that the systems need to be designed in order to facilitate a roughly equal treatment of all players.

 

The Cartel Market items being tradeable on the GTN was disruptive enough to in game economies. A permanent xp boost would push the systems even further from equitable.

[agento]

Join the POLL!

 

http://poll.pollcode.com/55514443_result?v

[EnkiduNineEight]

Join the POLL!

 

http://poll.pollcode.com/55514443_result?v

 

Actually you should more accurately state, "Join _a_ Poll!" because this in now way is '_THE_ POLL'. It has absolutely zero weight and if the Devs have any sense (and they seem to) they wouldn't work off of a poll with unscientifically presented and obviously biased response choices.

 

You're basically attempting to influence the answers by making certain choices appear more or less desirable based on the outcome you want from the poll.

 

There's no validity to this at all.

 

http://www.people-press.org/methodology/questionnaire-design/question-wording/

 

Just one of many examples on the importance of the wording in a poll question and its provided responses.

[agento]

Actually you should more accurately state, "Join _a_ Poll!" because this in now way is '_THE_ POLL'. It has absolutely zero weight and if the Devs have any sense (and they seem to) they wouldn't work off of a poll with unscientifically presented and obviously biased response choices.

 

You're basically attempting to influence the answers by making certain choices appear more or less desirable based on the outcome you want from the poll.

 

There's no validity to this at all.

 

http://www.people-press.org/methodology/questionnaire-design/question-wording/

 

Just one of many examples on the importance of the wording in a poll question and its provided responses.

 

Bwahahahahahaha you are so pathetic!

 

Go write another novel for me to read on the importance of economy in mmo's

 

There isnt a post on these boards where you aren't crapping on someone for something.

[agento]

Actually you should more accurately state, "Join _a_ Poll!" because this in now way is '_THE_ POLL'. It has absolutely zero weight and if the Devs have any sense (and they seem to) they wouldn't work off of a poll with unscientifically presented and obviously biased response choices.

 

You're basically attempting to influence the answers by making certain choices appear more or less desirable based on the outcome you want from the poll.

 

There's no validity to this at all.

 

http://www.people-press.org/methodology/questionnaire-design/question-wording/

 

Just one of many examples on the importance of the wording in a poll question and its provided responses.

 

AND! No matter how its worded these will be the logical choices!

 

1. An unlock

 

2. Cartel Purchase

 

3. Not going to happen at all

 

Just because they are worded FUNNY doesnt mean people with a brain cant see the choices for what they are!

 

You Honestly think if I worded it like...

 

1. An unlock

2. Cartel Purchase

3. Not going to happen at all

 

...that the results would be different? Your kidding yourself because a) you like to argue or b) you like grinding the same stuff over and over, at this point I'm not really sure which it is.

Edited December 7, 2014 by agento

[agento]

Actually you should more accurately state, "Join _a_ Poll!" because this in now way is '_THE_ POLL'. It has absolutely zero weight and if the Devs have any sense (and they seem to) they wouldn't work off of a poll with unscientifically presented and obviously biased response choices.

 

You're basically attempting to influence the answers by making certain choices appear more or less desirable based on the outcome you want from the poll.

 

There's no validity to this at all.

 

http://www.people-press.org/methodology/questionnaire-design/question-wording/

 

Just one of many examples on the importance of the wording in a poll question and its provided responses.

 

Im guessing you are in the 11% camp

 

Or did you not even vote just to be that guy lol

[agento]

Now we're getting out of the debating with the ad hominem attacks. So I'm out. But I did want to point out a large logical fallacy in your post.

 

The rules of the game are what they say they are. Not what I say, nor what you say. They change all the time- look at the SoR update. That was a major change. So your conclusion of 'playing by the rules' is not a valid argument. I'd respond to the rest... but I can see the hill around your youtube remark, completely missing the point and it's a steep incline from that condescension.

 

He likes attacking people having conversations that he does not agree with