Rapid Shots and Kolto Shot

[TezMoney]

I also miss the animation and sound effect.

 

I also miss the 3x chance to proc on crits

 

However I think this change was more for dps mercs and not healers.

Edited December 5, 2014 by TezMoney

[Taurax]

I'll post what I already posted elsewhere as a response to this...

 

Actually, your answer doesnt answer what was the issue I posted.

 

In an ops for example, you are targeting a mob and you want to heal your self. You want to use Rapid shots, so how do you make it decide whether to shoot dps or to heal you with the Rapid shots?

[TezMoney]

Actually, your answer doesnt answer what was the issue I posted.

 

In an ops for example, you are targeting a mob and you want to heal your self. You want to use Rapid shots, so how do you make it decide whether to shoot dps or to heal you with the Rapid shots?

 

you press the "target self" hot key

[SiegePro]

you press the "target self" hot key

 

You forgot the 'first I spend an action swapping out of my dps spec cell/cylinder for the combat support one or it won't even heal at all' part. If you're dps spec'd this is a HUGE improvement since I don't have to drop my armor-piercing cell (which provides alacrity, armor penetration and an increase in recharge rate with gunnery) in order to fire off a Med Shot on myself or an ally and then waste another action switching back and cycling back to my previous target once I'm done healing.

 

I had no problem dropping Med Shot right into the slot Medical Probe used to sit in (the #1 slot so I never accidentally trigger PvP by clicking on a PvP target) while the longer recharge heal went next to my advanced medical probe.

 

This is a massive improvement for the dps specs over how it functioned before 3.0 went live (saving 2 global recharges and having to re-find your target over how it used to be). It basically made the basic heal into something I actually USE now instead of something I completely ignored.

[TezMoney]

You forgot the 'first I spend an action swapping out of my dps spec cell/cylinder for the combat support one or it won't even heal at all' part. If you're dps spec'd this is a HUGE improvement since I don't have to drop my armor-piercing cell (which provides alacrity, armor penetration and an increase in recharge rate with gunnery) in order to fire off a Med Shot on myself or an ally and then waste another action switching back and cycling back to my previous target once I'm done healing.

 

I had no problem dropping Med Shot right into the slot Medical Probe used to sit in (the #1 slot so I never accidentally trigger PvP by clicking on a PvP target) while the longer recharge heal went next to my advanced medical probe.

 

This is a massive improvement for the dps specs over how it functioned before 3.0 went live (saving 2 global recharges and having to re-find your target over how it used to be). It basically made the basic heal into something I actually USE now instead of something I completely ignored.

 

Okay, well I think the only people complaining are heal spec mercs or commandos

[Adovir]

Or at least give us the option. Make it a Utility choice. Or give Kolto Shot to DPS only and let us healers keep Rapid Shot healing. Something. Because in its current state, I find it boring and I've lost that unique feel Merc healers had.

 

And Adovir: the next time you want a more pleasant response, I'd suggest not starting your post by telling someone that they're the "worst kind of person" simply because they don't enjoy the new play style.

 

FYI I didn't ask for a more pleasant post, just saying. My reply to you was in response to you saying I never played a merc/Mando healer, I have and I understand the reason why the change was made. You can be an *** all you want so long as you don't make false accusations of saying someone that you don't know anything about doesn't play a class, because I could have very well mained as a Mando healer.

[Wasbeer]

You forgot the 'first I spend an action swapping out of my dps spec cell/cylinder for the combat support one or it won't even heal at all' part. If you're dps spec'd this is a HUGE improvement since I don't have to drop my armor-piercing cell (which provides alacrity, armor penetration and an increase in recharge rate with gunnery) in order to fire off a Med Shot on myself or an ally and then waste another action switching back and cycling back to my previous target once I'm done healing.

 

I had no problem dropping Med Shot right into the slot Medical Probe used to sit in (the #1 slot so I never accidentally trigger PvP by clicking on a PvP target) while the longer recharge heal went next to my advanced medical probe.

 

This is a massive improvement for the dps specs over how it functioned before 3.0 went live (saving 2 global recharges and having to re-find your target over how it used to be). It basically made the basic heal into something I actually USE now instead of something I completely ignored.

 

As a DPS you should never have been swapping into support cell to begin with. You're trying to hybrid your class with weak supplement heals when you should just pull out a healer companion or letting the actual healer heal you while you stay focused on DPSing.

 

As for any healers saying it was an issue in OPs, you're supposed to be doing your job and focusing on healing the OPs group not trying to be a DPS. Sure in a downtime easy moment you might be getting around to shooting things but your focus should always be on healing the group and you shouldn't be complaining that it's difficult for you when you try to stray from your part in an OPs.

[Iivana_Julma]

huge pain the ***. Never had any problems whatsoever, but now i just keep accidentally healing myself instead of dpsing mobs when i forget that i can no longer use it for both dps and heal. They really should give us back the ability to use it for both dps and heal.

[TezMoney]

huge pain the ***. Never had any problems whatsoever, but now i just keep accidentally healing myself instead of dpsing mobs when i forget that i can no longer use it for both dps and heal. They really should give us back the ability to use it for both dps and heal.

 

So they should change it back because you sometimes forget? Isn't that a permanent solution for a temporary problem, or do you think you'll ever learn how to dps with one buttons while healing with another?

[SiegePro]

As a DPS you should never have been swapping into support cell to begin with. You're trying to hybrid your class with weak supplement heals when you should just pull out a healer companion or letting the actual healer heal you while you stay focused on DPSing.

 

As for any healers saying it was an issue in OPs, you're supposed to be doing your job and focusing on healing the OPs group not trying to be a DPS. Sure in a downtime easy moment you might be getting around to shooting things but your focus should always be on healing the group and you shouldn't be complaining that it's difficult for you when you try to stray from your part in an OPs.

As someone whose never done on OP in my life, I have no idea how things work there. I'm generally doing PUG Heroics while leveling up various toons and sometimes that means you end up doing a Heroic 4 with a Gunslinger, a Sentinel and an Vanguard... just what are your healing options there? Should we really kick someone and pull out a healing companion? Fortunately, the planetary Heroic 4s are generally forgiving enough that if the party is decently geared, a DPS commando can off-heal and get the team through anyway (in this case I drop into combat support cell at the start and just suck up the loss of penetration, alacrity and cell recharge as part of keeping the team going).

 

Other times I've been in the middle of a fight with a PUG and we're close to victory, but it goes sideways somehow and we need just a bit more healing than normal to pull it through. Not having to switch cells makes it a LOT easier for a DPS commando to pick up some of that slack (the fact that your healing draws aggro off the target you're healing is a bonus in this situation since the goal is to keep your ally up and in the fight... and so long as you don't drop instead, getting some of that aggro helps out).

 

99% of the game exists outside of Progression OPs and these are great changes for those who actually play there.

[Wasbeer]

As someone whose never done on OP in my life, I have no idea how things work there. I'm generally doing PUG Heroics while leveling up various toons and sometimes that means you end up doing a Heroic 4 with a Gunslinger, a Sentinel and an Vanguard... just what are your healing options there? Should we really kick someone and pull out a healing companion? Fortunately, the planetary Heroic 4s are generally forgiving enough that if the party is decently geared, a DPS commando can off-heal and get the team through anyway (in this case I drop into combat support cell at the start and just suck up the loss of penetration, alacrity and cell recharge as part of keeping the team going).

 

Other times I've been in the middle of a fight with a PUG and we're close to victory, but it goes sideways somehow and we need just a bit more healing than normal to pull it through. Not having to switch cells makes it a LOT easier for a DPS commando to pick up some of that slack (the fact that your healing draws aggro off the target you're healing is a bonus in this situation since the goal is to keep your ally up and in the fight... and so long as you don't drop instead, getting some of that aggro helps out).

 

99% of the game exists outside of Progression OPs and these are great changes for those who actually play there.

 

I think you're talking about tacticals not hardmodes unless you're grouping with other people you know and not using the groupfinder it should always put you with a healer. If they queued under false pretense then yes you should kick them out of the group unless they're going to switch with a holo trainer. Even ops runners spend more time in hardmodes and tacticals than operations themselves because it helps them get the gear faster with commendation rewards. You say it's beneficial you because you can take pressure off but that same change directly hurts the healer's role and effectiveness as a healer.

[SiegePro]

I think you're talking about tacticals not hardmodes unless you're grouping with other people you know and not using the groupfinder it should always put you with a healer.

No.... I'm talking about doing leveling up missions on say Tattooine when someone chimes up in general chat "LFG {{Heroic 4}} Insert Mission Title Here}}" and I reply "I'm down for that," because it sounds like fun. I don't use group finder because I have plenty of fun just doing planetary quests (honestly I still haven't done every quest on the planets yet).

 

You seem to be under the belief that most people playing this game do nothing but run Ops and hardmode and tactical flashpoints. There are plenty (and I dare say the majority of all players) who don't. I've been playing since launch and I've only run one tactical flashpoint (as a level 27 with a group of friends to see the Kuat Drives story (such as it was) in that entire time.

 

You say it's beneficial you because you can take pressure off but that same change directly hurts the healer's role and effectiveness as a healer.

Since the ONLY thing a Healer should be concerned with during an Op/Tactical/Hardmode is healing (leave DPS for the DPSers) why do they even NEED Hammer Shot on their bar during an Op/Tactical Hardmode? Just put Hammer Shot off on an unused bar when you're doing whatever it is you do and swap it with Med Shot on the bar in its place when you're not.

 

Seriously... its NOT rocket surgery. I found a spot for a new attack (Vortex Bolt) and two new heals (Med Shot and whatever the other new one that replaces Medical Probe is called) on my three active keybind bars (I have a fourth for anything used out of combat where I can just use a mouse instead of keybinds) within 20 minutes of logging into 3.0.

 

Hammer Shot is pretty bad DPS as it is anyway... you should only ever use it when a mob has a sliver of health left and you want to save a better attack with a cooldown for your next target. If you're heal-specced, you should be using that action to heal someone anyway, not popping off some crappy damage (leave that to your companion or an actual DPSer... your job is healing not shooting).

 

If that sounds slightly condescending... its basically what you've been saying about someone with a DPS spec daring to off-heal. If you're a healer, then you shouldn't care about having Hammer Shot on your bar because damage isn't your job.

[Wasbeer]

No.... I'm talking about doing leveling up missions on say Tattooine when someone chimes up in general chat "LFG {{Heroic 4}} Insert Mission Title Here}}" and I reply "I'm down for that," because it sounds like fun. I don't use group finder because I have plenty of fun just doing planetary quests (honestly I still haven't done every quest on the planets yet).

 

You seem to be under the belief that most people playing this game do nothing but run Ops and hardmode and tactical flashpoints. There are plenty (and I dare say the majority of all players) who don't. I've been playing since launch and I've only run one tactical flashpoint (as a level 27 with a group of friends to see the Kuat Drives story (such as it was) in that entire time.

 

 

Since the ONLY thing a Healer should be concerned with during an Op/Tactical/Hardmode is healing (leave DPS for the DPSers) why do they even NEED Hammer Shot on their bar during an Op/Tactical Hardmode? Just put Hammer Shot off on an unused bar when you're doing whatever it is you do and swap it with Med Shot on the bar in its place when you're not.

 

Seriously... its NOT rocket surgery. I found a spot for a new attack (Vortex Bolt) and two new heals (Med Shot and whatever the other new one that replaces Medical Probe is called) on my three active keybind bars (I have a fourth for anything used out of combat where I can just use a mouse instead of keybinds) within 20 minutes of logging into 3.0.

 

Hammer Shot is pretty bad DPS as it is anyway... you should only ever use it when a mob has a sliver of health left and you want to save a better attack with a cooldown for your next target. If you're heal-specced, you should be using that action to heal someone anyway, not popping off some crappy damage (leave that to your companion or an actual DPSer... your job is healing not shooting).

 

If that sounds slightly condescending... its basically what you've been saying about someone with a DPS spec daring to off-heal. If you're a healer, then you shouldn't care about having Hammer Shot on your bar because damage isn't your job.

 

Heroic 4's while beneficial to have a healer present they generally don't require it. Often times the damage output and sometimes combination of a tank is more than enough to handle anything encountered. In some cases such as Makeb they can actually be solo'd. Combine that with the recent nerf to mob difficulty dps/tanks should have an even easier time now. The issue with healers is that when questing/soloing they've had both heals and damage output nerfed making it tough to keep a companion up and the companions can be insufficient in their output. This can result in an energy drain placed on the healer trying to keep the companion up long enough or trying to do both and take the enemies down quick enough. Add to that the now more cumbersome task of managing the excess of spread on abilities required thanks to the 3.0 changes it can make some situations just plain absurd.

[Iivana_Julma]

So they should change it back because you sometimes forget? Isn't that a permanent solution for a temporary problem, or do you think you'll ever learn how to dps with one buttons while healing with another?

 

And this new system is a bad solution for a problem that never existed in a first place. Oh yes, i will likely adapt to the new system, no matter how bad it is, but it still doesn't make it any better.

[Beyoncia]

Since the ONLY thing a Healer should be concerned with during an Op/Tactical/Hardmode is healing (leave DPS for the DPSers) why do they even NEED Hammer Shot on their bar during an Op/Tactical Hardmode? Just put Hammer Shot off on an unused bar when you're doing whatever it is you do and swap it with Med Shot on the bar in its place when you're not.

 

If that sounds slightly condescending... its basically what you've been saying about someone with a DPS spec daring to off-heal. If you're a healer, then you shouldn't care about having Hammer Shot on your bar because damage isn't your job.

 

You are very, very wrong. Being a healer doesn't mean standing behind and press a few heals time to time. A healer with such a mindset is just dead weight to the group or raid. Every class, especially healer, should use everything he's got in his arsenal. Healer should dps, and more over combat medic must use hammershot to manage his amo.

[TezMoney]

And this new system is a bad solution for a problem that never existed in a first place. Oh yes, i will likely adapt to the new system, no matter how bad it is, but it still doesn't make it any better.

 

That's because you're only look at it from the perspective of a heal spec'd merc. This change was made with dps in mind.

Edited December 8, 2014 by TezMoney

[Wasbeer]

That's because you're only look at it from the perspective of a heal spec'd merc. This change was made with dps in mind.

 

I play a healing commando and a dps merc and there was never a problem with hammer/rapid shot/s. The fact that people had to change to support cell to use that heal was sign in and of itself that you weren't supposed to be using it to heal yourself. As for if they added it intentionally as a heal for dps which I doubt considering how low a heal it should be on a dps based on discipline there's no excuse for such a thing. The only reason they would feel the need to add such a thing is if there was some issue in pvp because in PVE if you need a healer you should be looking for one, or you or one of your friends should respec to heals. Nerfing and making life harder on healers then supplementing it by buffing other advanced classes is not a valid solution to a problem of damage mitigation, or a class that is over mitigated or has excessive heals that it shouldn't have. Why do you feel as a DPS you're entitled to be able to heal yourself so much in combat in the first place?

[BLJM]

The change took all the fun out of playing one of the few characters I liked in the game. Just one more toon to put on the back burning and maybe consider finally quitting the game.

[TezMoney]

I play a healing commando and a dps merc and there was never a problem with hammer/rapid shot/s. The fact that people had to change to support cell to use that heal was sign in and of itself that you weren't supposed to be using it to heal yourself. As for if they added it intentionally as a heal for dps which I doubt considering how low a heal it should be on a dps based on discipline there's no excuse for such a thing. The only reason they would feel the need to add such a thing is if there was some issue in pvp because in PVE if you need a healer you should be looking for one, or you or one of your friends should respec to heals. Nerfing and making life harder on healers then supplementing it by buffing other advanced classes is not a valid solution to a problem of damage mitigation, or a class that is over mitigated or has excessive heals that it shouldn't have. Why do you feel as a DPS you're entitled to be able to heal yourself so much in combat in the first place?

 

Despite what yout personal experience might be there are plenty of other dps mercs who both asked and are happy about the change. Not sure why you think they added it if not for dps, if you check out the old merc rep threads plenty of dps mercs asked for it, even a few healers just so they can use target modifier properly.

 

Yes off heals are mostly for PVP, though being able to through two instance on yourself can help in PVE too, but what does that have to do with weather the change is necessary or not?

 

This change is not a nerf to merc healing (relatively speaking) nor does it make life harder, people just need to get used to it. Also off heals aren't for damage mitigation. Off heals are for getting a few thousand HP back after you found cover or stunned your opponent, so you can get back into the fight. There are additional uses of course.

 

I don't dps on my merc, but the reason they need heals is because all other AC's with a healing discipline have them, players have grown accustom to this utility, and finally if they didn't have heals both dps specs damage and/or utilities would have to be overhauled.

Edited December 9, 2014 by TezMoney

[Ghisallo]

No.... I'm talking about doing leveling up missions on say Tattooine when someone chimes up in general chat "LFG {{Heroic 4}} Insert Mission Title Here}}" and I reply "I'm down for that," because it sounds like fun. I don't use group finder because I have plenty of fun just doing planetary quests (honestly I still haven't done every quest on the planets yet).

 

You seem to be under the belief that most people playing this game do nothing but run Ops and hardmode and tactical flashpoints. There are plenty (and I dare say the majority of all players) who don't. I've been playing since launch and I've only run one tactical flashpoint (as a level 27 with a group of friends to see the Kuat Drives story (such as it was) in that entire time.

 

 

Since the ONLY thing a Healer should be concerned with during an Op/Tactical/Hardmode is healing (leave DPS for the DPSers) why do they even NEED Hammer Shot on their bar during an Op/Tactical Hardmode? Just put Hammer Shot off on an unused bar when you're doing whatever it is you do and swap it with Med Shot on the bar in its place when you're not.

 

Seriously... its NOT rocket surgery. I found a spot for a new attack (Vortex Bolt) and two new heals (Med Shot and whatever the other new one that replaces Medical Probe is called) on my three active keybind bars (I have a fourth for anything used out of combat where I can just use a mouse instead of keybinds) within 20 minutes of logging into 3.0.

 

Hammer Shot is pretty bad DPS as it is anyway... you should only ever use it when a mob has a sliver of health left and you want to save a better attack with a cooldown for your next target. If you're heal-specced, you should be using that action to heal someone anyway, not popping off some crappy damage (leave that to your companion or an actual DPSer... your job is healing not shooting).

 

If that sounds slightly condescending... its basically what you've been saying about someone with a DPS spec daring to off-heal. If you're a healer, then you shouldn't care about having Hammer Shot on your bar because damage isn't your job.

 

I really think you are projecting. I have yet to run an OP. Don't post a lot but been in the game for a bit. Heck Pre-expac I had like 8 toons on 2 servers (no PvP) and one whopping 55. That said you show a few key errors or at least misapply things. First if as a healer you are doing only hps and NOT dps you are doing it wrong. Yes healing is you main task but if people are spiking and their health is stable your job is to also blow things up. Its akin to saying "tanks have all of these taunts and abilities that say " generates additional hate" why do you need attacks? Your job is just to hold aggro. The faster stuff dies the less healing you have to do. Now this doesn't mean you always try to dps. Never dps at the expense of your group/raid/self but you should dps.

Tbh in about 15 years of MMOs I have only heard the "a healers job is only to heal" from people that aren't the most knowledgable healers because this sentiment is one born of ignorance.

 

You are right...these games aren't rocket science. That said your use of the term to defend a mistaken theory is kinda ironic. Why Hammer shot? Because your job is to dps while healing...however part of doing that is maintaining energy. Even if it is, relative to the rest of the group, lower dps...lower dps > ZERO dps and hammershot doesn't endanger your energy balance. The attack is NOT like you say, only used when there is a sliver of health, if used properly it is used in the middle of rotation to stop you from going to deep into your energy pool (another point of ignorance.)

 

That said I am confused. If, as you said, in an FP/HM/OP all you do be doing is healing AND it does such crappy damage that you only ever use it when they only have a sliver of health, then why do you need it constantly on your hot bars to be used. Off to the side I have what I call a "filler" bar. I use this to swap abilities in and out that are only used when the type of encounter demands it. So using your idea (healers only heal in a hard mode...never attack) take attack off bar, put on heal. When soloing or doing the open would missions, swap on attack, remove overkill ST heal with CD. Same number of buttons, problem solved.

[SiegePro]

That said you show a few key errors or at least misapply things. First if as a healer you are doing only hps and NOT dps you are doing it wrong.

You are if your argument is that Hammer Shot is the best possible use of an action for DPS purposes. Unless you're at the bottom of the ammo/heat barrel there's NEVER a reason to use it on anything that's not a standard or weak mob with a sliver of health left. Any other power will net you better DPS to make your enemy drop faster. Heck... I'm DPS spec'd and I've used Med Shot as much or more than I have used Hammer Shot since 3.0 dropped (if Hammer Shots was anything other than a rotation filler for when literally everything else is unavailable we wouldn't even need any other attack powers, we'd just spam Hammer Shot without end and not even care about things like Charged Bolts, Grav Round or Full Auto).

 

That said I am confused. If, as you said, in an FP/HM/OP all you do be doing is healing AND it does such crappy damage that you only ever use it when they only have a sliver of health, then why do you need it constantly on your hot bars to be used.

Honestly, if I had to pick between Med Shot and Hammer Shot as a DPS spec I WOULD have dropped Hammer Shot from my bars (Grav Round is my basic attack... and if I need to shoot on the move, Vortex, Grav Round, Demo Round and HIB are good for six seconds of positioning before I'd even need to look at Hammer Shot).

 

However, I had an opening thanks to Medical Probe going away so I dropped it in there (both because it was going to serve a similar purpose in my tactics as the spammable Medical Probe was and because I always keep a heal in my number 1 slot so I don't accidentally trigger unwanted PVP action) instead of having to move Hammer Shot (which isn't even grouped my primary or even secondary attacks anyways). I had a much harder time fitting the other heal (which does less than Advanced Medical Probe with a longer recharge... I'm Gunnery so activation time is rarely an issue if I have to use the AMP) into my arrangement than I ever did Med Shot.

 

Off to the side I have what I call a "filler" bar. I use this to swap abilities in and out that are only used when the type of encounter demands it. So using your idea (healers only heal in a hard mode...never attack) take attack off bar, put on heal. When soloing or doing the open would missions, swap on attack, remove overkill ST heal with CD. Same number of buttons, problem solved.

That's basically what I suggested for heal spec... yes. I do similarly with some of my powers (mostly some AoE's I broke out when I was slumming for Comms on greyed out worlds). Gunnery has the advantage of not needing a whole lot of powers for its regular rotations (Grav Round, Full Auto/Boltstorm, Demo Round, Vortex Bolt and HIB being pretty much it) so I actually have more room for situational powers on my bars than, say, my Gunslinger and since I'm generally not doing things where I'm a hair's breadth from living or dying I'm willing to accept a certain loss of efficiency (using Hail of Bolts instead of Pulse Cannon when I need to AoE a bunch of close targets for example) instead of having to swap regularly from my filler bars.

[Darth__Reaver]

Honestly I just want to play laser tag with other mercs...

[Ghisallo]

Siege you use hammershot also as energy management. Example close to 60% or less energy, if you don't need to heal and can dps...you use hammer shot.. As I said less dps>zero dps. Less dps still means the mob dies faster. This is even a basic Gunnery, on long fights that is. Hammer shot when needed to avoid energy deficit, in danger of dipping to 50%? Hammershot so you can save reload for when you REALLY need it. He's in solo overland fights, tacticals etc, stuff may melt fast enough that it doesn't matter. But on the longer fights in the new HMs and the like, you have to manage energy carefully to maximize dps or hps imo. Edited December 12, 2014 by Ghisallo

[iliriaa]

gotta get it out...

what the Heck? why and blabla for changing it... but what were ey thinkin!?

chance for complaints comming through so they'll change it back?

 

"Just started playn again, waitin for the updates and bugs to be fixed ect"

so it was quite a shock.

It's what made the now poor thing, epic.

[rheia]

Gotta agree, on a mercenary medshot is a stright copy paste animation from the operative healing ability and it looks very poor on a class that uses two guns. All IMPORTANT things aside, the old way of healing by shooting an ally with my guns inbetween the big heals, made me feel cool. I just want that old animation back, I dont care about gaining a redundant ability.

 

Funny thing, the commandos have retained their green beam animation, unless I am mistaken, so no change there.

Edited February 21, 2015 by rheia