tdmaha Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I think Tdmaha made an important point here that should not be ignored. I DO think that having this drop right after 12XP was bad timing because it did amplify this cost in some folks minds. If you are used to paying nothing, having to pay for abilities you already had becomes more profound. That doesn't mean it isnt unfair, but it is a valid point to make. I think most folks would have likely let it go had it not come right after 12XP. POOF! lol. Looks like lots of posts disappeared. Perhaps we should remain on topic from this point forward. Wow would you look at that we see eye to eye on something... lol guess they are doing a little house cleaning before they leave for the weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I think it is important to note that, again, I don't think it is fair to hold EM responsible for any of this. He is simply the messenger. You can perhaps fault him for not noticing this problem earlier, but that's about it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) And once again, I have credits. I could easily go through and pay for the full respec on all of my characters and still (Probably) be fine for awhile. But the total discrepancies through all of this has me flat out refusing to do so. Seems to me, most subscribers are able to afford the cost of training or at least know how to get credit pretty fast. One being the 17k-30k chests in Rishi's waters . But then it's a matter of perception. The message BioWare is sending to his customers isn't good. We all experienced the poor communication they have, still now we are going one step further: by removing something from the players they already earned, this way making it so they can't play the game like before the update without paying again, and then not keeping in touch with the players. I might be flamed with the following, but somehow it reminds me SoE and their infamous customers management during the SWG era. Considering the visibility of this thread and how many long time SWTOR supporters are unhappy, I would have expected more communication from BioWare. As for now it feels like (sorry for the strong language) suck it up. That's where it comes back to SWG, at the time the producer thought they would earn more players than they would loose. We all know how it ended. To that I'd say they might certainly get new players, maybe way more than what they are loosing, but how long will they last compared to the people who kept subscribed no matter how the game was going? I personally spend roundly $400 last year in this game. How many new players will it take to replace me, and the others who are leaving? Will they still be there in 2 or 3 months? We would. But then do they really want to keep the game alive or is there something major coming up with the Episode VIII? Otherwise I don't understand how they can be ok with sinking their game, again. Edited December 5, 2014 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 But then do they really want to keep the game alive or is there something major coming up with the Episode VIII? Otherwise I don't understand how they can be ok with sinking their game, again. I don't know if I would go so far as to say it hurts the game, but I would certainly contend it has created some bad blood with some players. Not at the best time mind you, considering the changes they were asking players to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 But then do they really want to keep the game alive or is there something major coming up with the Episode VIII? Otherwise I don't understand how they can be ok with sinking their game, again. Ok no offense but your post a little over the top. Do they want to keep their game alive? Really? You really are going to go there? I mean you probdbly predicted Swtor would be dead in '12,'13 and '14 now you are questioning if they want to keep the game alive lol. How exactly are they sinking their game? A few people (a very small percentage I may add) are QQing because they have to pay for skills. You think that's sinking? No offense the only ones sinking are the doom and gloomers like yourself. People like you have been at your shenanigans since Swtor launched people like you have failed to bring down Swtor with their ridiculous doom and gloom and people like you will continue to fail posting crap like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Ok no offense but your post a little over the top. Do they want to keep their game alive? Really? You really are going to go there? I mean you probdbly predicted Swtor would be dead in '12,'13 and '14 now you are questioning if they want to keep the game alive lol. How exactly are they sinking their game? A few people (a very small percentage I may add) are QQing because they have to pay for skills. You think that's sinking? No offense the only ones sinking are the doom and gloomers like yourself. People like you have been at your shenanigans since Swtor launched people like you have failed to bring down Swtor with their ridiculous doom and gloom and people like you will continue to fail posting crap like this. Actually Tdmaha Deewe is a known general supporter of the game, a helpful respected member of the community (check out his mouselook posts), and has been from the beginning. He makes suggestions all the time for improvements....grant it, sometimes he does criticize the game, but in a relatively fair manner. Rarely have I seen him overly dramatic in his posts. Not exactly a steadfast critic. Grant it you did say "like you", so perhaps you didn't mean him directly. Edited December 5, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) I don't know if I would go so far as to say it hurts the game, but I would certainly contend it has created some bad blood with some players. Not at the best time mind you, considering the changes they were asking players to accept. I'm not saying the game is doomed but all goes down to players perception: every negative feeling for every single customer is bad for the health of the game. Check from Valve. Then these interesting "facts" about customer service and retention. Now compare to what's being done in SWTOR. Edited December 6, 2014 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Post EricMusco Posted December 5, 2014 Dev Post Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) I have an update of interest for you guys. Really, thank you all again for your feedback. Check this thread. -eric Edited December 5, 2014 by EricMusco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I have an update of interest for you guys. Really, thank you all again for your feedback. Check this thread. -eric Yes, fantastic news Mr Musco. IMO a really smart move on you guys part. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yes, fantastic news Mr Musco. IMO a really smart move on you guys part. Well done. Hey LordArt does this mean you may stay? Any guess on what QQers will QQ about next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I have an update of interest for you guys. Really, thank you all again for your feedback. Check this thread. -eric Thx Eric, answered in the other thread, guess now you can close this one so the focus will be in the right one. Have a nice week-end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yes, I am going to resub Tdmaha. Cant tell you what players may CAMPAIGN for next, but this turned out to be a success. I wanted to thank everyone that participated in the discussion. You guys made it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code_Airwolf Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I have an update of interest for you guys. Really, thank you all again for your feedback. Check this thread. -eric Thank you again very much, Eric, and Team, and all players who gave united feedback in regard to this issue. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeeyyMagzz Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Yes, I am going to resub Tdmaha. Cant tell you what players may CAMPAIGN for next, but this turned out to be a success. I wanted to thank everyone that participated in the discussion. You guys made it happen. I'm glad that players like you will resub, but this will not make me resub. It is, however, one of the largest steps Bioware has taken to date to earn my subscription back. I still have several months remaining on my subscription, so maybe they can keep doing stuff like this to surprise me in the meantime. That would be nice because I loved playing this game for the last 3 years and it would be sad to play this game for free and not contribute towards it's success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danery Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 While I want to start off by saying thanks for the change, I do wanna vent a little that it is coming out next week after everyone with early access has taken advantage of their early access to get levels in. To those of us that have gotten multiple toons to 60 that is a several hundred thousand credits we have spent on training costs, whereas those who did not get early access now get an awesome perk- No Training Costs. I think thats a much better perk imo than a statue and early access and kind of unfair imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code_Airwolf Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 While I want to start off by saying thanks for the change, I do wanna vent a little that it is coming out next week after everyone with early access has taken advantage of their early access to get levels in. To those of us that have gotten multiple toons to 60 that is a several hundred thousand credits we have spent on training costs, whereas those who did not get early access now get an awesome perk- No Training Costs. I think thats a much better perk imo than a statue and early access and kind of unfair imo You forgot the part about getting 12XP for a month+ That's a pretty great perk you left off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danery Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 You forgot the part about getting 12XP for a month+ That's a pretty great perk you left off. Assuming I had any characters to level. Burt yes you are right, that was a good perk too. It doesnt change the fact that those who did not get early access will now save hundreds of thousands of credits between level 55 and 60 that those of us who did get early access just lost. Still unfair. And further, there are people who didnt get early access because of when they ordered that still got the 12x xp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeeyyMagzz Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 While I want to start off by saying thanks for the change, I do wanna vent a little that it is coming out next week after everyone with early access has taken advantage of their early access to get levels in. To those of us that have gotten multiple toons to 60 that is a several hundred thousand credits we have spent on training costs, whereas those who did not get early access now get an awesome perk- No Training Costs. I think thats a much better perk imo than a statue and early access and kind of unfair imo I had early access and didn't play because of this, that was the choice I made. Early access was given so that players had the option to get in ahead of the rush and level their toons to 60 before everyone else. If you chose to go in and play, that's on you. If we didn't start these threads about ridiculous training costs, then they would have never made the change and all of the players that raced to 60 would not complain. However, we did complain, and Bioware listened, so now there are no future training costs. Be happy that every toon you level in the future will have free class training. Don't get me wrong, I completely empathize with everyone that spent the credits training because that stinks. However, you have to realize that you went in knowing that you were about to spend those credits and willfully did so. If I go to the store and buy an xbox one today for $349, should I go back to the store and ask for a refund when they make the console $299 next year? (Replace xbox one with a PS4 if that's your thing... same difference.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Yes, I am going to resub Tdmaha. Cant tell you what players may CAMPAIGN for next, but this turned out to be a success. I wanted to thank everyone that participated in the discussion. You guys made it happen. Even me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danery Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I had early access and didn't play because of this, that was the choice I made. Early access was given so that players had the option to get in ahead of the rush and level their toons to 60 before everyone else. If you chose to go in and play, that's on you. If we didn't start these threads about ridiculous training costs, then they would have never made the change and all of the players that raced to 60 would not complain. However, we did complain, and Bioware listened, so now there are no future training costs. Be happy that every toon you level in the future will have free class training. Don't get me wrong, I completely empathize with everyone that spent the credits training because that stinks. However, you have to realize that you went in knowing that you were about to spend those credits and willfully did so. If I go to the store and buy an xbox one today for $349, should I go back to the store and ask for a refund when they make the console $299 next year? (Replace xbox one with a PS4 if that's your thing... same difference.) If we were talking a year later they decided to do it your statement might be relevant. But there are plenty of stores out there that WILL price match if you find a cheaper price within x amount of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Even me? LOL. Yes, tdmaha. Even you. If for any other reason, you kept the post on the front page at the top of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I'm glad that players like you will resub, but this will not make me resub. It is, however, one of the largest steps Bioware has taken to date to earn my subscription back. I still have several months remaining on my subscription, so maybe they can keep doing stuff like this to surprise me in the meantime. That would be nice because I loved playing this game for the last 3 years and it would be sad to play this game for free and not contribute towards it's success. Well, I certainly hope you will see enough to convince you to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutzduken Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) First of all I want to say thank you for the change, it was definitely not balanced at all. The rewards you get from drops in the new expansion do not compensate the amount of credits it cost to pay for your skills, not even completing more than 3 sets of dailies; and if you are a crafter than you had to spend at least 500k+ out of your own "savings" to level that up on top of it. On average it cost 1 million credits from level 55-60 (on skills only). Now I am fairly upset that I have had to tap into my reserve funds just to level up. (About 1.5 million credits, looted only 600k, Spent over 900k for both crew skill leveling and class skill leveling, not counting repairs and other costs needed to level up). Not to mention the loss of augment slots and augments in some of my legacy gear, loss of achievements, Loss of accuracy in my gear from skills and bonus', as well as many other..."issues." All the people that pre-ordered this expansion, so they could get early access, should be given something to offset our troubles. We help debug your release, give bug feedback, and at times cannot even play due to lag, a typo, or whatnot...but we don't complain...we are committed to this game, and committed to BW/EA. We do not leave, we do not quit, we fight on (so to speak). We help you out to fix the bugs, point out the little issues and some bigger ones. And it costs us, not just real money but real time. A lot of us took extra time to come online on launch, you also got a TON of old players resubbing just for this. You have made more than enough money off this expansion and cartel coins to give back. I am not asking for a lot, I know you cannot look up EVERY account and see how many chars we leveled to 60 or paid for all the skills we had to relearn (esp Troopers and Mercs). So instead of penalizing us for pre-ordering early, and then just say "sorry but we messed up, OH WELL!" (that feels like a kick in the nuts to us). Instead give back a little, at the least compensate us enough for 1 toon leveled to 60. If you can't send 1 million credits to all the accounts that pre-ordered, then give us something. You can grant anything to us, you are dev's, customer service reps.... I don't really understand why you cannot just give us 1 million credits in game, but hey what about cartel coins. 100 cartel is = to 100k so grant us all 1000 (one thousand) cartel coins. And if you don't want to just give it out randomly to everyone...compromise. Ask us to fill out a form, reply to a forum post, or submit a ticket in game, with times and dates that we leveled our toons, so you can verify that we spent the credits. Give us a deadline to submit the response, like 7 days. Tell us to state the toons name(s) the dates leveled and approximate amount spent on those levels. Like I said I am not asking for full refund, if that were the case I would need a LOT more than that. Just something to show you are sorry for the mistake...in actions, not words. I'm trying to play devil's advocate and meet in the middle somewhere. We don't want a decoration, we just want something back for helping you to fix the bugs...show us that you are as loyal to us as we are to you. (EDIT: Also I have yet to receive a reply for 2 other ticket issues. But this topic gets a reply immediately? why not the other 2?) Edited December 6, 2014 by Gutzduken forgot another issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NogueiraA Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I have an update of interest for you guys. Really, thank you all again for your feedback. Check this thread. -eric So we can expect a huge nerf on credits rewards and loots from Rish and Yavin quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelgerion Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Thank you for bringing our feedback to the powers that be, Eric. I have gladly re-subbed for another 6 months (it was up today coincidentally enough) and am looking forward to playing even longer now that this odd credit sink is out of the way. I'm sure I'll find some other manner of spending credits and real $ on this game. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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