Just spent around 50k at the trainer for skills that I already earned.

[Jadescythe]

50K..... hell I just spent over 100k on my Smuggler! And I even spec'ed into what I THINK was the same tree he had.

 

Between class name changes and ability changes its hard to tell if you are in the same class, let alone same talents.

 

This is no bueno....

 

Potentially 1 of your 3 possible Disciplines changed names. If you don't see your old spec there, then it's the one with the name you don't recognize.

[LordArtemis]

Potentially 1 of your 3 possible Disciplines changed names. If you don't see your old spec there, then it's the one with the name you don't recognize.

 

Have they created some differences between the mirrors in this update, other than names of course? If so that would be an interesting move.

[ForceWelder]

yeah ...

 

I was on the final boss fight in Chapter 1 on my sage when the update hit. Talk about bad timing.

 

I went from having 2.5 full toolbars to having two toolbars with empty slots that didn't get refilled once I selected my new options in the skill tree and I ended up with a request for me to go see a class trainer. will I get them back once I do? Want know that until I get there.

 

Needless to say I tried to push through the boss fight with what I had and it wasn't pretty. The next time I log in I have no choice but to exit the fight and return to it at some later date when I have a better handle on the revised skill sets.

 

Somethings I like. There are little visual queues now on the toolbar when it is the best time to use some critical attacks. But I just spent two weeks tweaking this toon to meet my play style and now I just hope the new options I selected will even work.

[Jadescythe]

Have they created some differences between the mirrors in this update, other than names of course? If so that would be an interesting move.

 

No, but ACs from the same class no longer share the same name for the shared tree. So one of the ACs has a Discipline with a new name. Either all the trees have the same names as before or 1 tree has a new name, but its the same thing as pre 3.0.

[ebado]

Sorry, but I simply cannot get worked up over modest character costs after an expac drops. Pretty much every MMO I have ever played has presented players with additional costs with the drop of an expac. The way incremental costs deploy varies by MMO.. ..but they all raise the cost bar to players on an expac release.

 

In the grand scheme of the game, this is mice fodder. They could have done a better job of communicating and informing the players.. but that's about it.

 

I'm not asking for you to get worked up. I'm wondering if you realize that retraining things like force lift is clearly a bug. And if you realize that, I'm wondering if you think what they should have done is communicate that there will be a bug instead of fixing the bug.

 

Just an odd attitude.

[LordArtemis]

No, but ACs from the same class no longer share the same name for the shared tree. So one of the ACs has a Discipline with a new name. Either all the trees have the same names as before or 1 tree has a new name, but its the same thing as pre 3.0.

 

Ah, I see. Thanks.

[LordArtemis]

Here is the thing....whether or not you think the discipline system is good, one would have to admit that is a profound change for most folks in one way or another. That in and of itself might take some adjustment, but then to add to that the idea that you have to pay for abilities you already had....well, if you didn't like 3.0 that is just going to amplify that feeling 10 fold.

 

It may be a bug, it might not, but ether way it was pretty foolish to let this go live without a word if it is intended, or without proper testing.

 

I would like to know if this existed on the PTS, and if the testers told Bioware about the problem.

 

Now, perhaps it could be said that they were working on so many things this one slipped by....and I could accept that and give them a pass.

 

Mainly I want to know why this went live without a word. ESPECIALLY if it was intended.

 

Now, if I had developed this system....I would have set this up one of a few ways.

 

1) Abilities no longer have a cost to train

 

I would have eliminated the class trainers from the game. The only trainer that would remain would have been the Advanced class trainer.

 

From the time you create a character forward, every time you leveled up and a new ability was available, you would collect it like loot and it would appear on your bar automatically. It would also notify you when you unlocked a utility slot.

 

2) Advanced abilities would be free

 

All advanced abilities would be treated as if they originate from the old tree. Since you have something similar to a tree, any abilities located in that tree would be free from now on. The mechanic would work the same as suggestion 1, but base class abilities would still require payment and training at a trainer.

3) All abilities, regardless of source, would have been automatically trained up at your present level when you logged in (they only required you to claim them)

 

You would have been trained, for free, up to your current level when you logged in. From that point forward you would have to pay for your abilities like normal, but your current level would afford you free abilities. This would cover the folks that had to pay for abilities in some way twice, since they would automatically get the abilities they had for nothing, and the new ones to boot....up to that level of course.

 

I personally would have preferred option 1, but would be satisfied with option 3 and expect they should have at least gone that route.

[Deewe]

Please also take a closer look at the huge class-related differences when re-buying the abilities.

I have 9 lvl 55 toons. While I had to re-train (and buy for) about two or three things in some classes (e.g. powertech), I had to buy about 10 to 15 things when i logged into my commando healer. The reason wasn't just the pure amount of different abilites, but also that some of them had up to three or four ranks I had to re-buy. Some of them really expensive (I remember one for around 28k or more).

That's not funny.

 

The Commando in General is the worst offender of this whole Skill-Buy Bug. I have lots of Alts. Three of them are Troopers. One Vanguard, and a DPS and a Healer Commando. The Vanguard is in the category of the "General Conversion"...no problems. Yeah, there were 1-3 things from the Class trainer most characters have had to buy as "new" or rebranded things in the Discipline conversion. but the Commandos.....the ENTIRE Advanced Class Skill tree is expecting to be repurchased for Credits from the Class Trainer.

 

No. Way.

 

This particular aspect is clearly a bug, and a bad bug at that. They failed to link the conversion code on "Commando" to the conversion and everything you thought you already had is being recast as new. FOR ALL RANKS in those already purchased things. So yeah, we are really gonna raise a Sithstorm over this one.

Interesting how this very bug prevented me from even logging on any other alts since 3.0.

 

I paid over 300k for training on my healer commando, even had to pay the speeder III skill again.

 

And I was WTH I have to pay over 2M to train my alts just to be able to play them again? Nonsense.

 

Someone should advertise people to avoid logging in Comandos till it's fixed.

[LordArtemis]

Interesting how this very bug prevented me from even logging on any other alts since 3.0.

 

I paid over 300k for training on my healer commando, even had to pay the speeder III skill again.

 

And I was WTH I have to pay over 2M to train my alts just to be able to play them again? Nonsense.

 

Someone should advertise people to avoid logging in Comandos till it's fixed.

 

Yea, I would advise anyone, if they have not already done so, to avoid paying for any of the abilities until this is sorted out one way or another if saving credits is a concern.

[Propecius]

Yea, I would advise anyone, if they have not already done so, to avoid paying for any of the abilities until this is sorted out one way or another if saving credits is a concern.

 

My lord, you are the voice of reason in these troubled times. Thanks!

[TheSeventhJedi]

Hey folks,

 

Although there may have been some skills that would require training with the implementation of Disciplines, it does seem (due to these reports) that it may be wider spread than that. We are looking into this now and once I have more info I will pass it on.

 

-eric

 

Thank the maker. I definitely can't afford to do that across 11 toons. On re-training skills and buying the new levels of crew skills, I dropped a few hundred K before I even fired a single shot on Rishi!

[Devako]

Thank the maker. I definitely can't afford to do that across 11 toons. On re-training skills and buying the new levels of crew skills, I dropped a few hundred K before I even fired a single shot on Rishi!

 

Yea this needs fixed fast, the cost of training is already ridiculous enough leveling up but this new issue is a joke. I hope they fix this asap because my training for my level 50-60 characters is on hold until they do...not everyone that plays has time to grind dailies all day just to pay for new skills, especially when the new dailies are like what? 5-7k payouts? and my level 38-50 alt's training is like 13k-25K or more per skill rank up, lol no thanks.

[Oeilduciel]

What an unpleasant surprise.

I didn't paid attention there's a cost at first and so i ruined the money of two of my characters.

If i was more cautious i would have avoided to stupidly spend my money in skills i earned before for free, not mentionning the fact that their price are outrageous!

I don't earn so much money per day as i'm a casual player usually, so wasting it like this hurt.

 

I expect we'll get some refund when this bug will be fixed, but as it's EA at the command i can always dream to see a gesture from them.

 

Seeing this just cut me all envies to play with this game now as well as to renew my subscription.

[Mariojediwookie]

The kicker for me was telling me I had to pay for speeder license on my toon that I paid cartel coins for when I first played this game 8 months ago. I mean seriously.......I actually paid you REAL money for the skill and you want me to pay credits? I'm disappointed in the BETA testers, come on this is pretty simple to see and understand why it's not a good idea.

 

Surprised they didn't make me pay for my strongholds again.......wait I may be giving you devs more ideas.......

[JoeeyyMagzz]

The kicker for me was telling me I had to pay for speeder license on my toon that I paid cartel coins for when I first played this game 8 months ago. I mean seriously.......I actually paid you REAL money for the skill and you want me to pay credits? I'm disappointed in the BETA testers, come on this is pretty simple to see and understand why it's not a good idea.

 

Surprised they didn't make me pay for my strongholds again.......wait I may be giving you devs more ideas.......

 

The beta testers were obviously well selected. Can we get an update on this, please? I will not pay 300k on average per toon for abilities that I already trained. The worst part about this is that I guarantee they do not refund any of your money back. Have fun wasting your credits people, I will not.

[LordArtemis]

It may be difficult to issue refunds. I can't personally remember any time when they offered refunds, but I might be mistaken about that.

[Deewe]

It may be difficult to issue refunds. I can't personally remember any time when they offered refunds, but I might be mistaken about that.

They do record every purchase you do so would they want to they can refund everyone.

 

Not saying it's an easy task but it can certainly be done,

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

[Essence_of_Light]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

 

Thanks for the update, Eric.

[Nothematic]

Eric, in the future please ask the team to reduce the costs to 1 credit or even free when such substantial changes are being made. I've spent hundreds of thousands of credits on one character alone - god forbid how much I'll have to spend on my 11 other alts.

[Hiragawa]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

 

Thank you for the update. Ignoring the fact that your basis for recharging us is rather moronic...

 

I am curious as to the difference between Commando and Mercenary training then? Commandos seem to have many more skills that need to be retrained than their counterparts. Is THAT intentional? I mean... did Commandos somehow change skills more than Mercs? o.0

 

I personally think this choice is a terrible one and a great way to give the middle finger to your player base... but c'est la vie I suppose. I too echo that in the future if you make sweeping changes to the system like this, something should be done for existing players to help ease the credit cost of, you know, logging back in and being able to play their characters as they were the day before the patch. In the very least, a heads up in the patch notes that we're all getting hosed would be nice.

[Impericus]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

 

I understand the need to retrain. I do NOT understand why I am being charged for it. These were not voluntary changes, and players should not have to pay credits to train their characters back to the same level they were before this change.

 

Plenty of games change their abilities gained through the leveling process and require you to retrain. But I have never before had to pay for a design change. One of three things should occur here:

1) Players should be able to train up to the level their character was at the launch of 3.0 for free for each character.

2) Players should be refunded all amounts spent on training by each character previous to 3.0 so that they can use these funds to retrain.

3) Training should be free for all players for 30 days, and should continue to be free for all subscribers from now forward.

 

This "Discipline System Tax" is a bad, bad idea.

[LordArtemis]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

 

Thank you Mr Musco, that is good enough for me.

 

I am not sure that choosing to keep this in place as is was a good idea overall, but for me it's fine. Thanks for the update.

Edited December 3, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Deewe]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

Hello Eric,

 

while I appreciate your honesty in the matter and as such won't be shooting the messenger here's what I read from your post:

I personally think this choice is a terrible one and a great way to give the middle finger to your player base... but c'est la vie I suppose.

 

(edit) In case you wonder why: players should not be required to pay to be able to play again at the same level they where before the update.

 

As such I'm going to voice my opinion by cancelling my sub and make sure to spread the new around me how lame this behavior is. I wish I could get a refund too but won't waste my time on it.

 

Bad, really bad customer's policy.

A shame, really.

 

(edit: My small impact on the game is that the $400 I spent this year on this game, will be spent elsewhere next year)

Edited December 4, 2014 by Deewe

[Zin-Zin]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

 

Mr. Musco,

 

I have a Sage, Shadow, Assassin and Sorceror. The Sage and Shadow have to retrain Force Lift. The Assassin and Sorceror do not have to retrain the corresponding skill (Whirlwind). How is this not a bug?