Darkshadz Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) The ONLY possible fix for the current situation in PVP is thankfully an easy one. Apply the current ranked ELO system to regular warzones. Do not show the rating, merely assign a rating to all players and perform matchmaking based on that rating. If a warzone pops, shuffle the teams so that both teams have the same average rating. Done, game saved. You need cross-server queues and/or cross-faction pvp for that to work. The population is too small right now. Edited November 25, 2014 by Darkshadz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthClarky Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 If I come across a enemy premade all it means to me is the other team now have a chance! L2P SCRUBS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It really doesn't matter if you play premades or not. I have only very rarely seen a premade that might be actually coordinating play. The thing is, even if you are a good player, you are going to get some terrible teams at times that you just can't carry. That's when you start to see most premades. Those players group up with others that are good players to get away from the bad and they will not be using voice and coordinating, but it does stack good players on one side and bad on the other more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Unfounded? Group ranked says hi... That's just because premades are too chicken **** to queue against each other. Rift already proved this, and so did 8v8 ranked in SWTOR, or the lack thereof Even 4v4 ranked is not popping on nights when I can count three different Pub 4 man premades in regs. The carebears looking for the easy wins are the ones to blame here. Edited November 25, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 That's just because premades are too chicken **** to queue against each other. Rift already proved this, and so did 8v8 ranked in SWTOR, or the lack thereof Even 4v4 ranked is not popping on nights when I can count three different Pub 4 man premades in regs. The carebears looking for the easy wins are the ones to blame here. Well I understand that. The butthurt is strong. But the fact remains that premades are not the issue as grouping is a Core mechanic in an MMO and there are just as many bad premades or joke comps put together just for lulz. Should they be forced in a group only que with the pros? No.. The answer always have been matchmaking, and recently I added the idea that all matches need to be handicapped based on some factors. Splitting ques further is not an option, so people really need to get over it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I doubt it. Premades makes for BORING games. They lessen the element of exitement whether they are better or worse. They stack the odds and when odds are stacked, the game becomes boring. No, bad players make boring matches, if you want to start generalizing. While I don't have anything against them, quite a few particular guilds on PoT5 premades all the time, and get wrecked. It's still about lack of matchmaking and handicapping. Bads are bad, they need help to make the match interesting for all, mine, theirs, EVERYONE. They need to learn to play, but you can't learn to play getting stompped everyday. Bad need tools to adjust to the learning curve. Maybe, just maybe you'd see less "stacking" of good players if the match was actually balanced, but at the same time not eliminating group players for the pool( which you are being hypocritical if I post your responses in the ranked thread). Leet epeen is driven from having low handicap numbers. There is actually a legitimate way to separate skilled from unskilled now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Well I understand that. The butthurt is strong. But the fact remains that premades are not the issue as grouping is a Core mechanic in an MMO and there are just as many bad premades or joke comps put together just for lulz. Should they be forced in a group only que with the pros? No.. Do you and your friends get together and form stacked groups to go tackle the bonus series quests on, say, Belsavis, for instance? No? Why the hell not? There's about as much challenge in that as there is in premades queueing up against a bunch of randoms, and equally as boring. But hell, its an MMO, ,why are you soloing quests on any planet?? You should be grouped for every quest, because its an MMO! FFS And why should solo queues be forced to go against 40khp geared out premades? Should they be? No.. Edited November 25, 2014 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Do you and your friends get together and form stacked groups to go tackle the bonus series quests on, say, Belsavis, for instance? No? Why the hell not? There's about as much challenge in that as there is in premades queueing up against a bunch of randoms, and equally as boring. But hell, its an MMO, ,why are you soloing quests on any planet?? You should be grouped for every quest, because its an MMO! FFS And why should solo queues be forced to go against 40khp geared out premades? Should they be? No.. i think it's just there aren't enough players to separate the queues. anyone should try to improve, and if you are nearly good, you reach comms cap loosing too, even badly. and that's to fix gear gap( partially because idk why, but people seem to forget augs and stims in pvp). said so, if you queue enough you can see who is good and who is bad, why don't you invite him to finish dailies with you? it's usually fun and you can stand a chance against premades. that not always are good, specially if conquest is focused on pvp. also i learned a lot watching enemy premades and allied ones when i was a newbie, they help you understand advanced strategies who are not frequently seen since 8v8 ranked is gone..the eventual solo que suggested here would become horrible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Do you and your friends get together and form stacked groups to go tackle the bonus series quests on, say, Belsavis, for instance? No? Why the hell not? There's about as much challenge in that as there is in premades queueing up against a bunch of randoms, and equally as boring. But hell, its an MMO, ,why are you soloing quests on any planet?? You should be grouped for every quest, because its an MMO! FFS And why should solo queues be forced to go against 40khp geared out premades? Should they be? No.. Your example is awful. A better one is should I be able to solo SM ops? No? Ok so how about group only, and zero solo? Again, stop living in your little subjective world.. Premades wouldn't matter if matches were handicapped. The playing field would be leveled to account for premades, roles, valor(experienced) gear ratings/EXP levels, performance. The only difference is you would have one huge Que for zero rating, and one huge Que for rating. Period. It's a better systemfor everyone, not just solo players, not just premades, not just bads, not just leets, not just trolls, not just win traders, not just Que syncers. EVERYBODY... say it with me...EVERYBODY.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusCalera Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 And why should solo queues be forced to go against 40khp geared out premades? Should they be? Average health pool for a dps/heals in Brutalizer gear is going to be 33K give or take a bit. The only players that you will see with 40K are PvP tanks stacking endurance augments and 168 to 186 PvE geared players. The latter you should be able to burn down even if they are in a premade because their expertise will be terrible. If you can't burn them down, then the issue is not with the premade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbafatter Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Your example is awful. A better one is should I be able to solo SM ops? No? Ok so how about group only, and zero solo? Again, stop living in your little subjective world.. Premades wouldn't matter if matches were handicapped. The playing field would be leveled to account for premades, roles, valor(experienced) gear ratings/EXP levels, performance. The only difference is you would have one huge Que for zero rating, and one huge Que for rating. Period. It's a better systemfor everyone, not just solo players, not just premades, not just bads, not just leets, not just trolls, not just win traders, not just Que syncers. EVERYBODY... say it with me...EVERYBODY.... Your analogy lack any sense or logic, but that is beside the point. Sure handicap looks great at first glance, but BW isn't going to invest in the dying PvP and people are gonna find out ways of manipulating the system even if BW does. The solution is almost trivial - make cross faction teams and separate premades from solo queuers. This deals with queue synchers as well and does not significantly increase queue times, except maybe for premades who should be keeping ranked alive anyhow. Edited November 25, 2014 by Bobbafatter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Your analogy lack any sense or logic, but that is beside the point. Sure handicap looks great at first glance, but BW isn't going to invest in the dying PvP and people are gonna find out ways of manipulating the system even if BW does. The solution is almost trivial - make cross faction teams and separate premades from solo queuers. This deals with queue synchers as well and does not significantly increase queue times, except maybe for premades who should be keeping ranked alive anyhow. So any time anyone wants to Q with friends, they better make sure they are ready to face the "serious" PvPers? You know, not everyone is all that serious but by that logic, if you want a solo only Q, its already in game. Enjoy. Also; what do you define as a premade? If I an Randle team up just the 2 of us, are we a premade? What if we invite you to come along? Are 3 players a premade? And sense or logic? You just said they won't invest in a handicap system, but they will do cross faction and a separate Q? What do you think would be a bigger investment? Edited November 25, 2014 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Your analogy lack any sense or logic, but that is beside the point. Sure handicap looks great at first glance, but BW isn't going to invest in the dying PvP and people are gonna find out ways of manipulating the system. The solution is almost trivial - make cross faction teams and separate premades from solo queuers. This deals with queue synchers as well and does not significantly increase queue times, except maybe for premades who should be keeping ranked alive anyhow. If you separate que, you might as well make it all solo, which defeats the entire purpose of a TEAM game mode. This isn't a fighter of puzzle game. Premades rolls because bads are bad, but PuG roll because bads are bad as well. Your solutions are treating the symptoms, not the illness and while I agree cross factions is needed splitting ques, again(was two, now three (not counting GSF), and you want a fourth?) is not the answer. It won't fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbafatter Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) So any time anyone wants to Q with friends, they better make sure they are ready to face the "serious" PvPers? You know, not everyone is all that serious but by that logic, if you want a solo only Q, its already in game. Enjoy. Why not. If you want the advantage of grouping, why don't you want to play other people who groups up ?` Also; what do you define as a premade? If I an Randle team up just the 2 of us, are we a premade? What if we invite you to come along? Are 3 players a premade? I'll let you answer that yourself - is two players a group ? And sense or logic? You just said they won't invest in a handicap system, but they will do cross faction and a separate Q? What do you think would be a bigger investment? Well how hard can it be, adding a random set of players to an instance - you think they can't do that already ? Cross-faction is another deal since you need to change the way servers communicate among each other. That's a major undertaking. And if you see how screwed up the bolster system is - how well do you think they will do with a handicap system .... rofl Edited November 25, 2014 by Bobbafatter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 There is basically no end game for PvP. Rated could have been an end game activity, but you can get the rated gear in WSs and as far as the end of season rewards, not enough people know about those. Add to that the fact that you have more conquest rewards for regular than rated and here we are. Imagine if SM started dropping NIM drops, everyone would just run SM. Same thing here. Bottom line if you are only in this game for PvP, best to find a different game. I only stay because my wife also plays. The PvP is pretty fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 So any time anyone wants to Q with friends, they better make sure they are ready to face the "serious" PvPers? You know, not everyone is all that serious but by that logic, if you want a solo only Q, its already in game. Enjoy. Also; what do you define as a premade? If I an Randle team up just the 2 of us, are we a premade? What if we invite you to come along? Are 3 players a premade? And sense or logic? You just said they won't invest in a handicap system, but they will do cross faction and a separate Q? What do you think would be a bigger investment? Read this over and over again premade complainers. We have zero guild affliction. We use zero voice com. We have no direct experience team strats. YET group myself, Tech, Joe Sixx in a WZ whether premade or not, it will either be competitive or we will wreck, just ask how successful TAW is premading on PoT5.. LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbafatter Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) If you separate que, you might as well make it all solo, which defeats the entire purpose of a TEAM game mode. This isn't a fighter of puzzle game. Premades rolls because bads are bad, but PuG roll because bads are bad as well. Your solutions are treating the symptoms, not the illness and while I agree cross factions is needed splitting ques, again(was two, now three (not counting GSF), and you want a fourth?) is not the answer. It won't fix anything. Well the illness is that people expect to be able to group for solo content. My solution fixes that elegantly and may even blow some life into group ranked. Edited November 25, 2014 by Bobbafatter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Read this over and over again premade complainers. We have zero guild affliction. We use zero voice com. We have no direct experience team strats. YET group myself, Tech, Joe Sixx in a WZ whether premade or not, it will either be competitive or we will wreck, just ask how successful TAW is premading on PoT5.. LOL... Yeah, will have to take a flyer on me. I'm out of practice and probably won't bother until 3.0 but true story here. The most one sided match I was ever a part of, and on the winning side, we took all 3 nodes in ACW and held it the entire match. Had never met anyone on my team. No one had the same guild tags and by all accounts nobody was grouped together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbafatter Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 YET group myself, Tech, Joe Sixx in a WZ whether premade or not, it will either be competitive or we will wreck, just ask how successful TAW is premading on PoT5.. LOL... Well maybe, who gives a sh*t, but you needed to break the RNG to gain an unfair advantage in the process ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Well the illness is that people expect to be able to group for solo content. My solution fixes that elegantly and may even blow some life into group ranked. LOL please explain how TEAMPvP is solo content? If you want solo content,... Ok I won't even go there, but really? I mean what gaming rocks do you guys crawl from under? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Well maybe, who gives a sh*t, but you needed to break the RNG to gain an unfair advantage in the process ... Yeah because I need to break the RNG? Nope. RNG don't work if the population isn't high enough, regardless of cross faction. You are still going to see the same names in every freaking WZ, whether premade or not. Why is that so difficult to understand? I Que solo 99% of the time and welcome premades. I do grow weary of this tired as s discussion. Just as was stated groups are ******* to not fight other groups, solo complainers are cut from the same cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbafatter Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 LOL please explain how TEAMPvP is solo content? If you want solo content,... Ok I won't even go there, but really? I mean what gaming rocks do you guys crawl from under? Come on, is it really that hard ? A team or random solo queuers against another team of random solo queuers = solo content A team with premade groups against another team with premade groups = group content The third option should not exist ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 C'mon now. There is no "I" in "team." Team is a key word there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbafatter Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yeah because I need to break the RNG? Nope. RNG don't work if the population isn't high enough, regardless of cross faction. You are still going to see the same names in every freaking WZ, whether premade or not. Why is that so difficult to understand? Yup, but now randomly distributed between teams ... Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Come on, is it really that hard ? A team or random solo queuers against another team of random solo queuers = solo content A team with premade groups against another team with premade groups = group content The third option should not exist ... Wow. Team based PvP is solo content? Just wow. I guess it's the M and the E you are concerned about. A bunch of bads/moons queuing together be damned huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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