Clarification on 3.0 Combat Sentinel Precision

[Bahadori]

I noticed during the stream today that Gore/Precision was a 3 sec window. I'm extremely confused by it since the blog released on Sentinel changes specifically stated that Precision is a 6 sec window up from the current 4.5 sec window (Link to Blog). Yet today we all saw it at 3 sec. Gore/Precision at a 3 second window would ruin the spec play style as it stands in 2.10 right now. The guys stated that the classes were intended to play very closely to the way they play now in 2.10 when 3.0 drops. Fact is with a 3 sec Gore/Precision ON the GCD that leaves you at a baseline of 2 secs excluding the 1 sec GCD time. My issue with that is even with a 30 stack and using Zen/Berserk Master Strike/Ravage only channels at 2.3 secs. That's not even enough time to fit it into the new window effectively breaking the Combat Sentinel rotation and priority as it stands now. So Devs if you happen to fall on this post can you please clear up which it will be for 3.0? Thank you!

 

- Hayete (Jedi Covenant)

Edited November 22, 2014 by Bahadori

[Kaizersan]

It's 3 sec no gcd and no damage now in 3.0

[Bahadori]

As someone experienced and well versed in the Sentinel class (Main since launch) it just feels like an odd decision, a rotational game breaking decision at that. I guess we'll just have to see how it all plays out when it goes live.

[TACeMossie]

As someone experienced and well versed in the Sentinel class (Main since launch) it just feels like an odd decision, a rotational game breaking decision at that. I guess we'll just have to see how it all plays out when it goes live.

 

It was most likely a case of Combat Sentinels overperforming on the PTS and PvPers wanting it off the Global Cooldown which resulted in its loss of damage and reduced duration. What we know is its 25% uptime of 100% armor pen (uptime increased by alacrity), and also Combat got a new Blade Storm which is stated to hit harder and its stun lasts longer (not that its ever gonna be used for its stun)

[Aluvi]

Gore was severely nerfed.

Off the GCD

3 second duration (down from 4.5)

12 second cooldown (up from 10.5)

No Damage done at all.

 

Compared to the original changes:

On the GCD

6 second duration (4.5 usable)

Higher damage than live.

12 second CD (up from 10.5)

 

It's pretty bad. Combine that with some of the other nerfs, and Combat / Carnage will be a dead spec come 3.0. There will be absolutely no reason at all to go that spec, with Fury being FAR superior.

[g_mK]

Gore was severely nerfed.

Off the GCD

3 second duration (down from 4.5)

12 second cooldown (up from 10.5)

No Damage done at all.

 

Compared to the original changes:

On the GCD

6 second duration (4.5 usable)

Higher damage than live.

12 second CD (up from 10.5)

 

It's pretty bad. Combine that with some of the other nerfs, and Combat / Carnage will be a dead spec come 3.0. There will be absolutely no reason at all to go that spec, with Fury being FAR superior.

 

That is not necessarily true. You will no longer need a target to activate so you could for example in pvp activate gore from a distance and then TST the entire group coming at you, or you will no longer need to first be in 4m range to activate gore and then VT or FS your target, you will be able to do so from 10m.

 

I do think that the shorter duration is too much of a nerf, and I hope the developers change their minds and keep it at a 4.5 second duration. Specially since combat/carnage is not a lag friendly spec 3 seconds my be too short for a lot of players

Edited November 22, 2014 by g_mK

[Onrush]

Conveniently forgetting that Massacre damage has also been buffed and that Force Scream/Devastating Blast will apply sunder which is 20% armor reduction for 45 sec. Also dps across all classes is going to be brought down...

[Kaizersan]

Gore was severely nerfed.

Off the GCD

3 second duration (down from 4.5)

12 second cooldown (up from 10.5)

No Damage done at all.

 

Compared to the original changes:

On the GCD

6 second duration (4.5 usable)

Higher damage than live.

12 second CD (up from 10.5)

 

It's pretty bad. Combine that with some of the other nerfs, and Combat / Carnage will be a dead spec come 3.0. There will be absolutely no reason at all to go that spec, with Fury being FAR superior.

 

Naw you are missing so many things and while I dislike gore not doing damage the damage buff to massacre plus the 20% armor down you will apply in your normal rotation makes up for any lost damage.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I'm really torn on the new Gore... On one hand i want to try to like it... but that damn 3s Duration though... if it was the current Live 4.5s i could get down with the slight nerf... but, please Devs cant we have Off The GCD, 5s Duration with like 1k - 1.5k damage 11s CD Gore? That would be an overall comprimise on EVERYTHING. Off the GCD for PvP'ers, 5s Would allow for all players to get a Devestating Blast + VT + Ravage in every Gore. 1k - 1.5k isnt too much damage, and 11s CD to comprimise for the longer duration.

 

Everyone is happy.

 

Now, if that doesnt happen, Fury spec is looking awfully awesome... that Furious Slash doe...

[TACeMossie]

I'm really torn on the new Gore... On one hand i want to try to like it... but that damn 3s Duration though... if it was the current Live 4.5s i could get down with the slight nerf... but, please Devs cant we have Off The GCD, 5s Duration with like 1k - 1.5k damage 11s CD Gore? That would be an overall comprimise on EVERYTHING. Off the GCD for PvP'ers, 5s Would allow for all players to get a Devestating Blast + VT + Ravage in every Gore. 1k - 1.5k isnt too much damage, and 11s CD to comprimise for the longer duration.

 

Everyone is happy.

 

Now, if that doesnt happen, Fury spec is looking awfully awesome... that Furious Slash doe...

 

Considering its very competitive with 3 seconds every 12, I dont see why they would make it 5 seconds every 11.

 

Heres a rotation that is rage neutral, and does a ton of damage, and squeezes a ravage into every second gore window:

 

 

Massacre = MS

Gore = G

Vicious Throw = VT

Devastating Blast = DB

Ravage = RV

Assault = AS

Battering Assault = BA

Dual Saber Throw = DST

Berserk = BS

 

Rotation after Opener:

MS -> G -> VT -> DB -> BA -> MS -> DST -> MS -> AS ->

MS -> BS -> G -> RV -> DB -> MS -> MS -> AS ->

MS -> G -> VT -> DB -> BA -> MS -> DST -> MS -> AS ->

MS -> BS -> G -> RV -> DB -> MS -> AS -> AS ->

Edited November 22, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Bahadori]

You all make good arguments and i can see it both ways... i just feel so far all the info we've seen Officially from the live stream reveals Combat Sentinels seem to have gotten screwed comparatively while all the other classes/specs seem to come out better off. That's just my opinion though. I would love to see a response from a Dev towards this concern though cause any Combat Sentinel end game player has got to be a little thrown by this decision.

[MagikFingerz]

You will no longer need a target to activate so you could for example in pvp activate gore from a distance and then TST the entire group coming at you, or you will no longer need to first be in 4m range to activate gore and then VT or FS your target, you will be able to do so from 10m.

 

I think this is a very important point that is easily overlooked. Being able to Precision at any time plus the two 10m range high-damage attacks ought to make Sents/Maras quite a bit more flexible when it comes to mobility and not having to stay within 4m all the time.

 

Things are definitely looking up IMO, and it'll be interesting to see how this plays out when 3.0 goes live.

[spudik]

Also, what you all seems to forget. Alactricity will speed up GCDs, CDs BUT not the Gore/PS Duration, so I'm pretty sure that we will be able to squeeze 3 attacks inside just fine... Ataru gives u 3% Ala, Zen 30% and u will prly wnat to have some on ur gear as well... with the dmg buffs we got on the other skills it will be the same if not better. Edited November 22, 2014 by spudik

[venomlash]

Naw you are missing so many things and while I dislike gore not doing damage the damage buff to massacre plus the 20% armor down you will apply in your normal rotation makes up for any lost damage.

 

From a PvP perspective maybe. For PvE stuff, you can generally assume that SOMEONE will be sundering the main target, so a particular class having a sunder counts less as a DPS buff and more of a utility option.

 

Even more so in 3.0, when Gunnery, Tactics, Infiltration, Combat, Focus, Vigilance, and presumably at least one Gunslinger spec will all be able to sunder. It'll be nearly impossible to assemble an Ops group that doesn't have the option to sunder; your DPS would all have to be Sages or (presumably) Scoundrels, or all be radically unwilling to consider respeccing.

[Mrdann]

and as i predicted combat spec is officially dead, we are down to 4 attacks only... looks like my sentinel shall be retired since i pretty much wasted my time leveling the )(*&@#$ thing.

 

good job bioware... seriously good job.... might as well just pull the whole spec out and give us a brand new spec instead.

 

i haven't been this angry at these morons in a LONG time.

[KeyboardNinja]

and as i predicted combat spec is officially dead, we are down to 4 attacks only... looks like my sentinel shall be retired since i pretty much wasted my time leveling the )(*&@#$ thing.

 

good job bioware... seriously good job.... might as well just pull the whole spec out and give us a brand new spec instead.

 

i haven't been this angry at these morons in a LONG time.

 

Don't panic yet. Remember that a lot of things are changing in 3.0 and only a small slice of them have been exposed in the streams and blogs. Is the playstyle changed? Yes absolutely. Is the spec "dead" as in "completely out classed by the others"? Not by a long shot.

 

The devs care about balance even more than the players do, and they have a small army of incredibly skilled and articulate testers on the PTS, pushing things and finding flaws and arguing for nerfs or buffs as necessary. I wouldn't be too concerned, honestly. Your spec will still be viable and desirable.

[spudik]

Don't panic yet. Remember that a lot of things are changing in 3.0 and only a small slice of them have been exposed in the streams and blogs. Is the playstyle changed? Yes absolutely. Is the spec "dead" as in "completely out classed by the others"? Not by a long shot.

 

The devs care about balance even more than the players do, and they have a small army of incredibly skilled and articulate testers on the PTS, pushing things and finding flaws and arguing for nerfs or buffs as necessary. I wouldn't be too concerned, honestly. Your spec will still be viable and desirable.

 

Thank You KBN for this

[Bryanseven]

^ And we can be pretty sure KBN knows what he is talking about. Only thing that would make me feel better is if Oofalong and Gundarz popped in and Said, "Yeah...what KBN said."

[Kaizersan]

^ And we can be pretty sure KBN knows what he is talking about. Only thing that would make me feel better is if Oofalong and Gundarz popped in and Said, "Yeah...what KBN said."

 

A lot more of the pts testers need to be popping on here to put these threads to rest since most info is public now.

[Horano_Heresy]

Really looking forward to trying out the changes!

 

Kinda disappointed with the nerfs to Gore, but I'm sure they compensated with buffs to Massacre and you've gotta love the look of Devastating Blast! Hoping to see some massive crits

[Projawa]

^ And we can be pretty sure KBN knows what he is talking about. Only thing that would make me feel better is if Oofalong and Gundarz popped in and Said, "Yeah...what KBN said."

 

We'll see about carnage after some progression marauders weigh in with their results post-launch.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Projawa

[Vodrin]

Gore was severely nerfed.

Off the GCD

3 second duration (down from 4.5)

12 second cooldown (up from 10.5)

No Damage done at all.

 

Compared to the original changes:

On the GCD

6 second duration (4.5 usable)

Higher damage than live.

12 second CD (up from 10.5)

 

It's pretty bad. Combine that with some of the other nerfs, and Combat / Carnage will be a dead spec come 3.0. There will be absolutely no reason at all to go that spec, with Fury being FAR superior.

 

After getting more information I am not as down on combat/carnage as you are Aluvian. While the gore/PS changes are definitely a burst nerf, I really need to see how zen/beserk affects cooldowns before I get too upset about it (if the alacrity bonus from zen/beserk causes cooldowns to shorten for as long as it is active we could well see an affective cooldown of less than 9 seconds on gore/PS). The set bonus that combat/carnage gets will be interesting as well.

 

That said, fury looks really strong with what I have seen.

[giorgo]

Carnage got a burst nerf and a substained buff.Thats from a pve perspective.Pvp wise it looks severely nerfed,because in 3.0,it will actually have less utility than it has now.Its the spec with the fewer ranged attacks of all the mara specs.Imo,Fury will be the way to go for pvp.It pretty much has a force scream and an annihilate single target attacks on top of good AoE and more utility,compared to anni and carnage...Too bad though,because i really love carnage's playstyle. Edited November 24, 2014 by giorgo

[Ashuranrx]

After getting more information I am not as down on combat/carnage as you are Aluvian. While the gore/PS changes are definitely a burst nerf, I really need to see how zen/beserk affects cooldowns before I get too upset about it (if the alacrity bonus from zen/beserk causes cooldowns to shorten for as long as it is active we could well see an affective cooldown of less than 9 seconds on gore/PS). The set bonus that combat/carnage gets will be interesting as well.

 

That said, fury looks really strong with what I have seen.

 

I agree. Clashing Blast tie to a 6s snare made me feel a lot better about Combat keeping up with range and healers. As for Precision Slash nerf, just don't combo it with Master Strike anymore. I would combo it with Clashing Blast, Twin Saber Throw, and Dispatch.