Beniboybling Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Barely? Ventress admitted inferiority and fled.This lawls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 people are biased on clone troopers! There! I said it! Although i don't really blame anyone on that, they were the 1st to make a lengthy appearance in terms of combat capability compared to others as far as on screen goes. agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 "Mace had to use all his skills to defeat the Dark Side fighter Asajj Ventress" Compared to Yoda and Anakin who just TK her for lolz. Which directly contradicts the comic itself. Ventress ran with her tail between her legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Which directly contradicts the comic itself. Ventress ran with her tail between her legs. Not really a contradiction, because it says he beat her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) I also would like to point out something here...but this whole biased thing to... "Well such and such are/is trained to kill Jedi/Sith, so this means that they are superior!" There are a few problems with this.... 1. This is stated in pretty much....every other cutscene involving the JK/SW/JC/SI....to the point where it seems like bragging rather than something that is actually true. Not saying it can't be true, but....they are only statements usually made by the enemy, which isn't really backed up by any sort of proof other than words. Even if true, what Jedi/Sith are we talking about exactly? For all we know, it could mean they have fought against inexperienced Jedi/Sith, it doesn't automatically mean they fought full fledged Jedi Knights/Apprentices or Masters/Lords. 2. Fighting a Jedi/Sith doesn't = to being superior to a Non-Force user. Fighting a Jedi/Sith is an entirely different situation in combat, than a regular person who could have some different gadgets at their disposal, who will use unorthodox tactics, fight dirty etc, etc. Knowledge is fine in regards to battling Jedi/Sith, but that knowledge completely goes out the window and is useless when someone isn't facing one and is facing something else entirely. ===== So just trying to clear this up Edited November 11, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Like I said, in the same way Vader and RotJ Luke is comparable to him (IE Vader IS comparable to Sidious, he is confirmed 80% of sidious that is comparable) yes Yoda again we KNOW is the greatest Grand Master Pre-Luke, but again that doesnt mean he cant be comparable to others, after all his subordinate Windu was close enough in strength that he actually faired BETTER against Sidious. I think I am starting to understand peoples problem, they dont understand the definition of "Comparable" That 20% is huge. 20% of 2,000,000 is a massive number compared to 20% of 500. Force Unleashed is considered Canon. Star Killer was around Vader's level. We saw what happened when he fought Sidious. Vader could NOT kill Sidious on his own. This is why he kept seeking to ally himself with someone else who could. If Vader could kill Sidious he would have done so. He could not and many sources stated that. Not to mention that comparison is only to his "Old Decrepit" body. Not his clone bodies which he had far more power since he was younger. Edited November 11, 2014 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I also would like to point out something here...but this whole biased thing to... "Well such and such are/is trained to kill Jedi/Sith, so this means that they are superior!" There are a few problems with this.... 1. This is stated in pretty much....every other cutscene involving the JK/SW/JC/SI....to the point where it seems like bragging rather than something that is actually true. Not saying it can't be true, but....they are only statements usually made by the enemy, which isn't really backed up by any sort of proof other than words. Even if true, what Jedi/Sith are we talking about exactly? For all we know, it could mean they have fought against inexperienced Jedi/Sith, it doesn't automatically mean they fought full fledged Jedi Knights/Apprentices or Masters/Lords. 2. Fighting a Jedi/Sith doesn't = to being superior to a Non-Force user. Fighting a Jedi/Sith is an entirely different situation in combat, than a regular person who could have some different gadgets at their disposal, who will use unorthodox tactics, fight dirty etc, etc. Knowledge is fine in regards to battling Jedi/Sith, but that knowledge completely goes out the window and is useless when someone isn't facing one and is facing something else entirely. ===== So just trying to clear this up Agreed, Fighting Skilled Non Force users and Fighting Force users take 2 very different skill sets. I dont think they translate 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 That 20% is huge. 20% of 2,000,000 is a massive number compared to 20% of 500. Force Unleashed is considered Canon. Star Killer was around Vader's level. We saw what happened when he fought Sidious. Vader could NOT kill Sidious on his own. This is why he kept seeking to ally himself with someone else who could. If Vader could kill Sidious he would have done so. He could not and many sources stated that. But he did, I believe the more correct statement was he could not kill Sidious with out assistance/ with out getting himself killed. And remember the one Galen beat was a Pre A New Hope Vader, who was still suffering quite a bit from his injuries, he was still almost twice as good by the time of RotJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 But he did, I believe the more correct statement was he could not kill Sidious with out assistance/ with out getting himself killed. And remember the one Galen beat was a Pre A New Hope Vader, who was still suffering quite a bit from his injuries, he was still almost twice as good by the time of RotJ. No he wasn't. After "Rise of Lord Vader." he already gained full control of his suit and body. The novel completely stated that. Yes he couldn't kill Sidious without assistance. Exactly my point. Also furthermore? Lucas stated that Windu won the LIGHTSABER DUEL. Yes, Windu is a better lightsaber duelist if lightsabers is the only thing they were using. He was going to lose when he employed force lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) But he did, I believe the more correct statement was he could not kill Sidious with out assistance/ with out getting himself killed. And remember the one Galen beat was a Pre A New Hope Vader, who was still suffering quite a bit from his injuries, he was still almost twice as good by the time of RotJ. Well it was actually more to it than that, Galen only beat pre-ANH Vader because... 1. Vader was a shadow of his former self at the time. IE: He wasn't as good as his previous self, nor was he as good as he later was. 2. Galen had a speed advantage. 3. Galen abused his Force power. 4. Galen knew Vader's fighting style, which you think this wouldn't be a factor considering Vader should have known how he would fight but for the sake of the novel, he seemed to have forgot that. ESB-ROTJ Vader is another story entirely as he is superior to Pre-ANH Vader in Force and Saber combat. Edited November 11, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well it was actually more to it than that, Galen only beat pre-ANH Vader because... 1. Vader was a shadow of his former self at the time. IE: He wasn't as good as his previous self, nor was he as good as he later was. 2. Galen had a speed advantage. 3. Galen abused his Force power. 4. Galen knew Vader's fighting style, which you think this wouldn't be a factor considering Vader should have known how he would fight but for the sake of the novel, he seemed to have forgot that. ESB-ROTJ Vader is another story entirely as he is superior to Pre-ANH Vader in Force and Saber combat. In Force Unleashed Vader was a wrecking ball and Starkiller won nearly on luck (I know I know. No luck in star wars but even he couldn't fully explain how he won. He really shouldn't have.) Vader was already capable of destroying Jedi Masters, his suit was made to withstand force lightning, and he had already killed numerous jedi in his new suit at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 In Force Unleashed Vader was a wrecking ball and Starkiller won nearly on luck (I know I know. No luck in star wars but even he couldn't fully explain how he won. He really shouldn't have.) Vader was already capable of destroying Jedi Masters, his suit was made to withstand force lightning, and he had already killed numerous jedi in his new suit at that point. You're right, he was able to. But even so, he was still weak compared to what he once was which is a factor in that. And it was more due to CIS on Vader's part and PIS if you really wanna know this luck that Galen had. But....it's not canon anymore so yay. Although the games did showcase some awesome specialized Troopers and Vehicles...probably the only good things to come out of the 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 You're right, he was able to. But even so, he was still weak compared to what he once was which is a factor in that. And it was more due to CIS on Vader's part and PIS if you really wanna know this luck that Galen had. But....it's not canon anymore so yay. Although the games did showcase some awesome specialized Troopers and Vehicles...probably the only good things to come out of the 2. Except the whole point of Rise of Lord Vader is he gets over that which is before Starkiller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Except the whole point of Rise of Lord Vader is he gets over that which is before Starkiller. Death Star says otherwise, which came out after Rise and before Force Unleashed. But regardless....it's still just crap. He had trouble with a *********** Shadow Guardsmen before the fight, and all his fights previously he had trouble with too. Edited November 11, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulturefett Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 His suit was made to withstand force lightning, and he had already killed numerous jedi in his new suit at that point. Where does that idea come from? Didn't you see ROTJ. I'm pretty sure his suit DID NOT withstand force lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Where does that idea come from? Didn't you see ROTJ. I'm pretty sure his suit DID NOT withstand force lightning It actually did for a brief moment, Palpatine's Lighting is the strongest ever. In other stories, Vader has withstood powerful lighting attacks and lighting nets, coming out unharmed really. Palpatine's Lighting though, effectively destroyed the suit. But yes Vader did modify his suit to be resistant to Lighting. Edited November 11, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 It actually did for a brief moment, Palpatine's Lighting is the strongest ever. In other stories, Vader has withstood powerful lighting attacks and lighting nets, coming out unharmed really. Palpatine's Lighting though, effectively destroyed the suit. But yes Vader did modify his suit to be resistant to Lighting. Plus his suit had been breached already by Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Plus his suit had been breached already by Luke. Yeah that too, but even still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Where does that idea come from? Didn't you see ROTJ. I'm pretty sure his suit DID NOT withstand force lightning Foce unleashed mentioned him upgrading his suit to withstand force lightning from Galen Merek. Future events had him withstanding electrical based attacks and force lightning just as Wolf stated. Palpatine's lightning could burn someone down to nothing. Quite literally. Edited November 11, 2014 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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