tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I think the easiest era to discuss is the PT era. Most characters are well established, we know a great deal about even minor characters, and there is a pretty firmly established power hierarchy in the era. It's also, as far as I can tell, one of the least tense eras between other eras in recent times. So let's talk about the PT era more! This is true, very few people have a problem with it. The issue with the NJO is a lot of people havent read it (its not in most Visual Media) and the Problem with OR is that its almost all unquantifiable feats as they are easily dismissed game mechanics for alot. Thankfully we do have feats for them, but overall its still hard to see. Also I am curious as to what "level" Corran Horn is on that Vitiate is "so far above" that Corran's Tutaminis Feats wouldnt allow him to absorb Vitiate's lightning. Corran has shown better Tutaminis then Grand master Satele Shan (they both absorbed lightsabers, but Corran absorbed it enough to shut down the saber, we all know with how much Satele was struggling had Jacen not helped the Saber WOULD have cut her eventually, so at least in that regard Corran > Satele), we also have never seen Revan preform even close to that and Revan was able to Absorb Vitiates lightning, maybe not great but he did and as far as I can tell based on what has been shown and known feats in Tutaminis, Corran> Satele> Revan with Tutaminis. (not saying overall but with this one ability which is all that matters at the moment he is) so the Idea that Corran CAN'T hold up to Vitiate's lightning honestly isnt holding any water, as his Tutaminis feats are better then people who HAVE done so to Vitiate's lightning. Edited November 10, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Basically this. Assumption is the mother of all screw ups. If we are assuming a character is more powerful because they lack evidence then we are screwing up. Also we know game mechanics are not canon, this also includes a lot of random spawns (IE Meetra's Traya's Academy Feat, those are Mobs in a game, and by that extension a game mechanic in and of themselves, we know she went through the Academy but no numbers were given, and the numbers in game are just a game mechanic thus that Feat is unquantifiable, her "Beating Sion Multiple times" is a game mechanic, its much more likely there was only 1 fight and during that fight they had all of those conversations WHILE trading blows rather then stopping and starting and stopping and starting. Think Luke vs Vader Episode VI, if it were a game mechanic Luke would take Vader down to 0 between every conversation, that was essentially what happened with Sion vs Meetra, so is Force Elightenment, and moving meditation basically all that stuff was game mechanics...... basically if she wasnt capable of it in Source books or Revan Novel, she probably wasnt ever truly capable of it) Also, believe it or not, I put Malak above Traya and Sion. Malak may not be as strong as Reborn Revan, but we know he was very strong and was a challenge for Revan, Meetra we know is weaker then Revan, we also know that Meetra had around the same difficulty with Traya and Sion as Revan had with Malak, if not having an easier time with them. When I REALLY think about it, I might put Malak VERY near Meetra to begin with. I dont think Malak gets the credit he deserves honestly. We hear so much about Revan, and Meetra, and Traya and so Forth, but Malak was no slouch by comparison to them either, he was a very real threat to Revan at the end of KoToR.Game mechanics are canon unless they are there solely for the games purposes according to Leland Chee. And considering Revan floored Malak in a duel, slicing off his jaw, only able to challenge him with power of the Star Forge I would disagree. Although I do believe that Malak is underated. Noting that both Sion and Traya would surely prove a challenge for Revan so I don't really see how that is evidence for Malak's superiority either way. Bearing in mind that Surik is weaker than Traya in the Force. Ultimately though circumstantial evidence is circumstantial, we can't rate characters solely through ABC logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Game mechanics are canon unless they are there solely for the games purposes according to Leland Chee. And considering Revan floored Malak in a duel, slicing off his jaw, only able to challenge him with power of the Star Forge I would disagree. Although I do believe that Malak is underated. Noting that both Sion and Traya would surely prove a challenge for Revan so I don't really see how that is evidence for Malak's superiority either way. Bearing in mind that Surik is weaker than Traya in the Force. Ultimately though circumstantial evidence is circumstantial, we can't rate characters solely through ABC logic. They are for leveling up, so solely for game purposes yep.... How do you figure Surik is weaker then Traya, she beat her at the heart of her academy fair and square... Surik> Traya in terms of raw power. You have to remember Revan did that BEFORE Malak became the head honcho and according the Malak (and I see no reason for him to lie, especially considering now he is standing there ready to face Revan) he became much stronger since then. Honestly I would at LEAST put Malak on the same level as Sion and Traya. He doesnt get enough credit for what he was, he really doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 They are for leveling up, so solely for game purposes yep.... How do you figure Surik is weaker then Traya, she beat her at the heart of her academy fair and square... Surik> Traya in terms of raw power. You have to remember Revan did that BEFORE Malak became the head honcho and according the Malak (and I see no reason for him to lie, especially considering now he is standing there ready to face Revan) he became much stronger since then. Honestly I would at LEAST put Malak on the same level as Sion and Traya. He doesnt get enough credit for what he was, he really doesnt.I'm talking about Sion, consider the following dialogue: Sion: As long as the dark places of this world flow through the cracks of my flesh, I cannot be killed. Exile: Tell yourself that a hundred times, and I will strike you down a hundred times. Game mechanics have nothing to do with Surik repeatedly beating Sion, its to do with his abilities and what he represents. A person who through the power of his hatred, can revive himself after being struck down. Which, may I add, he has been noted to do by a canonical source i.e. the KOTORCG. Traya is more powerful than the Exile according Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia Although Traya was more powerful, the Exile managed to defeat her in combat. Which makes sense considering how she dominates Sion and the Jedi Council, which the Exile could not do. I don't recall it ever being stated that Malak became much stronger, not even a year had passed before Revan confronted him. The only thing that made Malak more powerful to my knowledge was the Star Forge, an external source. But again, the fact that Malak gave Revan a hard time hardly makes him more powerful than Traya and Sion. I would not put him on the same level, maybe as Sion, but not Traya, he simply does not possess similar showings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I don't recall it ever being stated that Malak became much stronger, not even a year had passed before Revan confronted him. The only thing that made Malak more powerful to my knowledge was the Star Forge, an external source. "When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master." ―Vandar Tokare (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic) Edited November 10, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 "When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master." ―Vandar Tokare (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)Interesting, fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Interesting, fair enough. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif I am self declared KotOR expert on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif I am self declared KotOR expert on these forums.Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif I am self declared KotOR expert on these forums. No! That isn't true! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Correct. Considering anyone superior to me on Revan or Malak is lolworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Considering anyone superior to me on Revan or Malak is lolworthy.I consider many people to have a more accurate outlook on Revan and Malak's capabilities, which is surely a prerequisite for being expert on them. Surely fanboi is a more accurate term. Edited November 10, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I consider many people to have a more accurate outlook on Revan and Malak's capabilities, which is surely a prerequisite for being expert on them. Surely fanboi is a more accurate term. We won't get along very well, then. And generally, people I don't like have difficult time stay around near me before embracing my superiority on Revan knowledge. Your summary of Saba vs Revan might be classified as the worst thing I have ever read in my lifetime, my parents lifetime, my grandparents lifetime, and all of modern history. Edited November 10, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Interesting, fair enough. Ya that was kind of what I was pointing to, but fair enough on the Traya thing.... but as far as Sion goes. I believe every word Sion Says, but I also dont believe he was ACTUALLY struck down. It seems massively more likely that all of that dialog happened DURING saber combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 We won't get along very well, then. And generally, people I don't like have difficult time stay around near me before embracing my superiority on Revan knowledge. Your summary of Saba vs Revan might be classified as the worst thing I have ever read in my lifetime, my parents lifetime, my grandparents lifetime, and all of modern history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I never asked for your opinion on anything in life, nor will I ever, so why give me your opinion? Edited November 10, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I never asked for your opinion on anything in life, nor will I ever, so why give me your opinion? I am generous, I give to those who have none even if they never asked for any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 I never asked for your opinion on anything in life, nor will I ever, so why give me your opinion? If you are going to try and start an argument that is not related to the thread topic, please take it some where else. Stay on topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If you are going to try and start an argument that is not related to the thread topic, please take it some where else. Stay on topic! I think it KIND of was, see his bias, in the respect that aparantly a Grand Master is not comparable to the Almighty Revan, in any way ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I am generous, I give to those who have none even if they never asked for any. I'm just saying that you and your beliefs in Star Wars debating makes Beni look like Megan Fox toppless, to be honest. Edited November 10, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I think it KIND of was, see his bias, in the respect that aparantly a Grand Master is not comparable to the Almighty Revan, in any way ever. Uh, what? I have Revan well below Yoda... stop typing out of your *** because only **** is coming out. Thanks. Edited November 10, 2014 by MarcheseAMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'm just saying that you and your beliefs in Star Wars debating makes Beni look like Harry Styles toppless, to be honest. Corrected, Megan Fox isn't even that hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'm just saying that you and your beliefs in Star Wars debating makes Beni look like Megan Fox toppless, to be honest. I am glad I am helping then..... actually it is kind of sad, no matter if Lucas himself, or disney or Leeland chee came down and straight out said you were wrong..... I dont think you would believe them, Beni I know would, Sel would, I would, you I dont think so, but hey that's bias for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Corrected, Megan Fox isn't even that hot. Niall>>>>>>>>>>Harry. Those eyes, that hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I am glad I am helping then..... actually it is kind of sad, no matter if Lucas himself, or disney or Leeland chee came down and straight out said you were wrong..... I dont think you would believe them, Beni I know would, Sel would, I would, you I dont think so, but hey that's bias for you. Lol wut? For the second time, I have Revan well below Yoda? You think I put him Mortis level or somewhere? lmfao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Uh, what? I have Revan well below Yoda... stop typing out of your *** because only **** is coming out. Thanks. Saba was a Grand Master... if Saba is not comparable to Revan, then a Grand Master is not comparable to the almight Revan (there is more then 1 Grand master hint hint.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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