Starfighter .. Great idea ... Poor Aplication!

[Worldwyde]

Starfighter started out as a greatly anticipated add-on ... The thoughts of a PVP "Wing Commander" came to mind, but ..Sadly ... it was not even close.

 

Problems are numerous and not to difficult to fix (I Believe)

 

! ) The game Queue has two distinct Starts ... Solo or Group.... SOO .. Why do Solo's have to fight guilds that are in Maxed out Ships and on Team Speak for tactics...... Don't know about the rest of you NON-GUILDED Players .. but in Domination Battles .. the Score of one team having 10000 pts .. While the losing team has less than 200 pts does not make for a "Good Game" Nor does the deathmatch round with the Winning team Having 50 Pts and the losing team less than 5 point.

 

2 ) there are three distinct Squadrons in the Start game Queue, Each containing 4 Player Slots.... there are 4 types of Playable Ships .. Shouldn't that mean that only one of each ship type should be in a squadron ... or at the very least no more than two heavy ships per squadron ... the guilds like to use 5-6 gunships .. backed by 2-4 bombers and 1 to 2 scouts .... Reason ... The Gs's have 3 times the range (and missiles too) they move them like tanks one by one covered by the rest ,, all the while Bmbr's lay ordinances around and between them ,, and the Scouts charge into battle - just to turn tail and lure the opponent into the excessive range of the gunships .... Fair? NOT EVEN CLOSE....... but who can blame smart players from exploiting the .. obviously ILL tested Scenario

 

3 ) Why do Capitol ship turrets decimate ships in Domination but in deathmatch .. the guilds run 6 or more bombers to go to the opponents spawn areas and mine the m to excess .. so that all spawning ships are immediately under fire and usually immediately destroyed ....why .. BECAUSE the Capitol ships are not keeping the Spawn points clear for spawning ships .... Again... smart players on two way communication exploiting the flaws of the game.

 

SHIPS:

 

SCOUT .. Lightly armoured .. fast low power weapons .. medium Secondaries ... SURE .. ITS a Scout ... Apparently designed for DOG-FIGHTING .. yet .. its Weapons range are non-comparable to Gunships or bombers, and apparently its not fast enough or maneuverable enough to avoid Cannon fire from the Gunships nor can any of its missiles take out a gunship or bomber without at minimum 4 hits (fully upgraded stats) accompanied by full laser/blaster shots.

 

STRIKE .. Medium armour ... low engine power mid-rated secondary weapons basically a slower Scout witch can take a bit more punishment ... same issues as scout apply just less engine power ... not sure of the intended role .. cause there is nothing to "Strike at" and its engines are too under powered to get to a target quick enough to do a lot of damage. not bad in a DOG-FIGHT ..right up until the GUNSHIPS hit it with an upgraded ION blast .. then .. its just dead in the water. (space)

 

BOMBERS .. Heavy armour moderate guns ... way too much ordinance - great for blocking spawn points and trapping Satellites, and of course the guild favorite .. protecting the gunships so the Gs's excessive range can decimate opponents.

 

GUNSHIPS ,,.Heavy armour, Heavy guns, Excessive range, and apparently mod-able to have more speed than a scout with recharge.... yup ,, that sums it up ... 3 times the range of other ships weapons (ok ,, proton torpedo's have some range (and a way too excessive lock on and don't deliver the damage of the Gs's secondary weapons)). their armour is so thick ... that a scout on a dead run against a parked Gunship can do roughly 15% hull damagewhile laying on lasers/blasters and launching any missle type from the start range of the weapon .. before passing by the Gs and turning for a second run ,,, course .. if the Gs see's the Scout coming .. it can zap all its power with an ION blast or decimate it in a 1-shot kill with a rail gun or a 1-shot delay burn with its plasma.

 

Soo .. How do you fix the issues????

 

Not my place to figure it out ... BUT .. if I am paying to play ... then I Deserve a fair field to play on..... and that will not be found here!!!....SO DON"T PLAY .. the guildies say ... Expected response from the guys/girls banded together to exploit the obvious flaws in the game format.

 

BUT IF I DID FIX IT..... these are my thoughts:

 

Gunships: Reduce their turning ability (it is seeming the same or too close to all other ships) take away their missiles..(they are not dog fighters .. they are support. (the proton format would be a logical replacement here) reduce their engine pool ..or increase their power consumption when they move. (big heavy ships should not get movement or turning bonuses)

 

Bombers: Reduce their turning ability (its fairly reasonable now .. but mare than they deserve for what they are) take away their missiles - they are support .. not dog-fighters (again - protons would be an appropriate fix here) limit their secondary discharges the infinite rule is way to advantages or make the cool downs much longer ... increase their power consumption or reduce the engine power pool (like Gs's they should not be able to out run a strike or a scout.

 

Strike Fighters: very likely the original concept model for the game ... its design is pretty spec-on .. just way out classed by the heavy ships.

 

Scout: .. I believe one model has protons - likely should not have that weapon .. after all .. these are the true dog-fighters of the types. they should turn faster and be much more maneuverable than all ship types and they should probably not have heavy and/or quad lasers/blasters. Also .. in the wing commander game of old .. the dog fighter class of ship had a power slide .. where bye it could thrust forward and turn around to fire at opponents while continually sliding upon its original trajectory ...(that would be a cool move in here)

 

Components: - More or Less covered above ,,, sure some additional tweaking there would be useful ,,, but readers of this may wish to give those comments.

 

Crew: .. Nice touch ... all though a lot of redundancies as far as skills are concerned ... May be better to vary the crew passives and main skills So players can better customize their ships for their style/purpose ..(for instance - engineering has to do with speed and engine power .. but I find I don't have enough of one or the other .. if say my shield category had the ability to add speed or power to my engines .. I'd be willing to give up some shield power .... or maybe my blaster pool runs out too fast ... would give up some shield for more shots on target or accuracy .. or hit power) .. any way just a thought

 

Hopefully the other players who are tired of the 50-1 losses and 10000 - 42 losses .. will agree with me ,,, cause I really want to have fun out there and play in close matches ... ie, 10000 - 950 or 49 - 50 .... I don;'t even care if I am on the losing team ... I just want a fairer fight

 

Ohh ,, and MAKE THE CAPITOL SHIPS ON ELIMINATION DESTROY THE ENEMY MINING THE SPAWN POINTS ..COME ON!!!!!

[StrixHiraeth]

You should hire an editor... this post made me dizzy.

 

Ah, from what I did understand of your highly erratic post (if you fly like you type, it's no wonder you get blown up! ;P) you just need more experience. The scenarios you describe aren't the norm, and the ships are more balanced than you think. Also, it's only possible to have a premade of four people--so there are no guilds running 5+ of anything. Using two-way communication is not an exploit.

 

Actually, if I was your editor I'd tell you to scrap the whole post and try again.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Ymris

[Verain]

There's a lot to pick apart here. I'll be brief:

 

The game Queue has two distinct Starts ... Solo or Group.... SOO .. Why do Solo's have to fight guilds that are in Maxed out Ships and on Team Speak for tactics.....

The matchmaker, given enough in queue, will match teams appropriately. But without cross server queues, it often has to make the group as it is. Additionally, lesser players (solo, usually) generally should lose in an open and equal contest, as their strategy (queue into a team game alone) is inherently inferior. Finally, if you were to remove group queues, top players would simply queue together anyway. Team game is best played with a team.

 

Shouldn't that mean that only one of each ship type should be in a squadron ... or at the very least no more than two heavy ships per squadron ...

No. The ships are intended to be balanced in the sense that you can pick whatever. A team of all bombers or all gunships or all scouts has plenty of weaknesses that a more balanced team can exploit. This is not particularly obvious as the game starts new players with a niche support scout and special type of full-offense dogfighter, instead of the more generalist sorts of ships you might expect.

 

3 ) Why do Capitol ship turrets decimate ships in Domination

They used to, but there were two strategies that were bad. One, a team would get kills and then get back to their cap ship on all gunships. If the opposing team adopted a similar strategy, they would simply hide in a cranny of the ship, letting the timer win them the game. This strategy was very very rare. A more common scenario would be a better team pushes a worse team back to cap ship, and the nubs on the better team feed so much and so hard into the cap ship turrets that the game actually switches and the better team loses. Basically, this removed a deviant strat. It was not the best way to do it. In the meantime, simply select a different spawn point than the one that has the campers- even a 12v12 can't camp all three spawns.

 

its Weapons range are non-comparable to Gunships or bombers, and apparently its not fast enough or maneuverable enough to avoid Cannon fire from the Gunships

Scouts, the battle scout (type 2, flashfire/sting/IL-5) in particular, are excellent against gunships. They can deal far more dps than anything a gunship or bomber can bring to bear, and in the case of a gunship, can effortlessly outmaneuver them.

 

GUNSHIPS ,,.Heavy armour, Heavy guns, Excessive range, and apparently mod-able to have more speed than a scout with recharge

 

This is the best quote, because so little is even correct.

Gunships have 5% damage reduction, and a hull that is the second weakest in the game. "Heavy armor", however you mean it, has absolutely no logic here. "modable to have more speed than a scout with recharge" is also entirely delusional- gunships have a lower speed and less boost efficiency than scouts.

 

 

I would assume you are new to the game, and have very little clue what's going on around you yet.

[zaskar]

Don't feed trolls they just end up fleecing you at the bridge.

[Verain]

I actually never assume someone is a troll unless it's compelling. I think this is a player who just flat out is getting rolled, and sort of wants a systemic solution to a personal problem. That's QQ, but it's not trolling.

[MaximilianPower]

I agree with Verain, doesn't smell like troll to me. There's real, palpable anger here, amidst the inaccuracies.

 

@OP - take it from the folks in this forum: play more. It's apparent that you're fairly new; additional experience will allay some of your concerns and answer questions. For example, there's an entire class of ship you seem to have missed (T2 "battlescout") that singlehandedly obviates one of your points. Eventually, I'm sure, you would have come across that ship on your own.

 

And of course always feel free to ask questions here, though I might suggest posting them in smaller, more easily-digestible (and hence answerable) segments.

[RebekahWSD]

Interesting...

 

This feels like a necro thread without actually being a necro thread.

 

[Worldwyde]

There's a lot to pick apart here. I'll be brief:

 

 

The matchmaker, given enough in queue, will match teams appropriately. But without cross server queues, it often has to make the group as it is. Additionally, lesser players (solo, usually) generally should lose in an open and equal contest, as their strategy (queue into a team game alone) is inherently inferior. Finally, if you were to remove group queues, top players would simply queue together anyway. Team game is best played with a team.

 

I have no discord with your statement here .. but my point was that groups should play other groups .. the solo's are obviously devoid of any real tactics and the game flow is too fast to successfully type orders / ideas to the disorganized team. even if you could ... how would anyone know who to listen to.

 

No. The ships are intended to be balanced in the sense that you can pick whatever. A team of all bombers or all gunships or all scouts has plenty of weaknesses that a more balanced team can exploit. This is not particularly obvious as the game starts new players with a niche support scout and special type of full-offense dogfighter, instead of the more generalist sorts of ships you might expect.

 

I understand the intent .. that was not a concern ,,, the issue is the Gs's have too many buffs ,and that makes it unreasonable to effectively destroy the threat .. for instance .. (note I have been playing starfighter from the first day it started .. experience is not in question (however my knowledge maybe)) the gs's have feedback shields ,,, 3x the range on secondary weapons ,, they can stop on a dime and turn to face their targets immediately ,,, they even have a model with cluster missiles 1.2 sec lock on. so here is what I see ... lone gs sitting by an asteroid, I dive under thrust to cover the 15k distance .. start missiles at range followed by laser , (tier 3+ on my ship) by the time I get to my target ,, I have effectively killed his shield and caused maybe 15% hull damage ... his response is to activate his feedback and flee... my next hit sets off the feed back and takes out my shield ,, my hull goes yellow .. I repair and re-shield while giving pursuit ... need to activate engine recharge ...once he is back in range .. I open with missiles and lasers again ... he quick stops .. I slow but glide past .. he instant turns to target and opens with quads ... (maybe they hit maybe not ) they can do good damage .. (this is also where he uses clusters I he has them (sure death on my already damaged ship) if I survive to that point we get into a rotational loop and I get a hit with lasers every now and again (why I he able to arc almost as well as me???) he activates feed back again and that one will trash my ship .. by now he has called for help and I have additional enemy concerns (game over!)

 

or he flat out runs to a satellite or capitol ship forcing me to turn back ..just so he can lob an ion blast and shut me down (the ion blast upgrade arcs to hit up to three ships (not cool.

 

Soo tell me again .. how they are actually even??? cause I am missing something here.

 

They used to, but there were two strategies that were bad. One, a team would get kills and then get back to their cap ship on all gunships. If the opposing team adopted a similar strategy, they would simply hide in a cranny of the ship, letting the timer win them the game. This strategy was very very rare. A more common scenario would be a better team pushes a worse team back to cap ship, and the nubs on the better team feed so much and so hard into the cap ship turrets that the game actually switches and the better team loses. Basically, this removed a deviant strat. It was not the best way to do it. In the meantime, simply select a different spawn point than the one that has the campers- even a 12v12 can't camp all three spawns.

 

Ok ... I understand and agree ... but they need to eliminate them all together ,,, it gives the gs's a hiding place .. and at 3x the range .. does not balance the game. and yeah .. they can ... here is how ... they park a gun ship behind a spawn point (opponents span in front of gs ..with gs at on flank ... they have at least one bomber (sometimes 2) dropping ordnance in front of spawn point (that comes to 3 mines and a sentry or additional mines (per bomber) right in the span zone ... then they have a scout or strike or 2 (depending on bomber strength) ... the gs uses ion .. kills ship ordnance converge on dead ship .. fighters also to mop up ... re-spawn is up to 15 seconds ... easy to recycle kills with 4 ship formations at each spawn.

 

Scouts, the battle scout (type 2, flashfire/sting/IL-5) in particular, are excellent against gunships. They can deal far more dps than anything a gunship or bomber can bring to bear, and in the case of a gunship, can effortlessly outmaneuver them.

 

OK ,,, now this confuses me ... I like the ff a lot ... but I find it harder to use against a gs than the nova dive .... the laser are low powered and the the heavy missiles are slow lock .. the clusters don't do enough damage ... if you think this ship can be effective against the gs .. I am all ears .. cause I am missing something .... and as I stated prior ... I don't feel the game should be about thugery .. it should be skill based .. and that means .. un-upgraded ships should have a reasonable chance to be effective against another ship.

 

This is the best quote, because so little is even correct.

Gunships have 5% damage reduction, and a hull that is the second weakest in the game. "Heavy armor", however you mean it, has absolutely no logic here. "modable to have more speed than a scout with recharge" is also entirely delusional- gunships have a lower speed and less boost efficiency than scouts.

 

ok .. I didn't clarify that I meant hull strength ..health and shield ability combined when I used the term ARMOUR ... point was .. if I unload missiles and lasers on a target that is not moving or directly ahead and moving away ... I destroy it in 2-3 seconds ... but not the gunship (like 5 seconds maybe ,, and not the bomber. that gives them too much advantage

 

I would assume you are new to the game, and have very little clue what's going on around you yet.

 

yeah ... REALY ... not new .. and don't appreciate being berated on here because I have a concern! .. Game should be fun and enjoyable for all players .. not just those whom only play starfighter and think that a 10000 pt to 100 pt / or / 50 pt to 5 pt .. showing ...is " a Good Game" those a re down right slaughters and not enjoyable or fun for anyone .. not even the winning team.

[phalczen]

yeah ... REALY ... not new .. and don't appreciate being berated on here because I have a concern! .. Game should be fun and enjoyable for all players .. not just those whom only play starfighter and think that a 10000 pt to 100 pt / or / 50 pt to 5 pt .. showing ...is " a Good Game" those a re down right slaughters and not enjoyable or fun for anyone .. not even the winning team.

 

None of what you say specifically refutes anything Verain posted, other than to basically say that unbalanced matches are not fun ... this is a point upon which we all agree. However, the presence of unbalanced matchmaking can be, and is in fact, an entirely separate and unrelated issue to individual ship balance.

 

So, I agree with you that unbalanced matches aren't fun. There isn't one magic bullet for that, except maybe cross server queues which will come around the same time as cross server queues for ground pvp which is to say not in the foreseeable future. Hopefully, as more and more people become involved in Conquest and the starfighter objectives therein, and with the accelerated requisition gain coming in 3.0, more people will queue up on all the servers and matchmaking will improve.

 

But your experience with the flashfire being suboptimal against gunships, for example, I have to admit that has not been my experience, either on the giving or the receiving end, nor does it appear to be the conventional wisdom among the experienced pilots who post on the forums. Quite simply, the type 2 scout is one of the most powerful starfighters in the game and is a staple in the bar of most experienced pilots. Another example, you presume that the Novadive/Blackbolt (type 1 scout) is designed to dogfight because of its maneuverability, but in fact it is better suited to hit and run tactics. Get to a satellite first, and hold it until the slower but more durable ships arrive (type 1/3 strikes, type 1/2 bombers, maybe a gunship). Approach someone in TDM unnoticed, unload a lot of damage, and then zoom away. Do not mistake its maneuverability for the notion that it will win turnfights ... I made that mistake too many times. I hate to use a meme for this, but in this case I really do believe there may be a "L2P" component to many of your observations. I highly recommend watching Drakkolich's streams and reading Stasie's guide to starfighter builds to find some builds with proven efficacy.

Edited November 7, 2014 by phalczen

[DerGevatterTod]

How many games of GSF have you played so far?

[sintunevar]

Most of the flaws you've found mainly revolve around precious few games played.

 

It is very cool you are passionate enough about GSF to write such long criticism. GSF most certainly has it's own cruel little learning curve. It also has it's issues. Virtually all of the 'issues' you covered have less to do with GSF and more to do with you having precious few (25?50?) games under your belt. Almost everything you've said is plain wrong - These things feel broken, weird or imbalanced to you because guy who just killed you has..say, 1000 more games than you..and raw talent and ships to match the numbers.

 

If you enjoy it, keep at it! You get better, your ships get better and you'll start having more fun.

 

Main problem of GSF? GSF is, by far, the most awesome&unique part of this 300 million MMO. yet, it runs on coupon-to-Mcdonalds budget.

Edited November 8, 2014 by sintunevar

[MiaowZedong]

ok .. I didn't clarify that I meant hull strength ..health and shield ability combined when I used the term ARMOUR ... point was .. if I unload missiles and lasers on a target that is not moving or directly ahead and moving away ... I destroy it in 2-3 seconds ... but not the gunship (like 5 seconds maybe ,, and not the bomber. that gives them too much advantage

This is the one thing that isn't really a mistake on your part. You're probably encountering a gunship using Fortress Shield. Fortress Shield is actually a bad ability, because it prevents the gunship from moving, but because of your inexperience you are letting him use it and beat you. What you should do is fly behind him—he will either take a very long time to turn around and get you back into his arcs (and if he's not dead by then, which he really should be, you can just fly behind him again) or he will move and break his Fortress Shield, effectively wasting his shield ability completely.

 

If your Flashfire/Sting has a few upgrades, it actually becomes possible to just pop cooldowns and faceroll him, but you should practice the skillful way to beat it rather than crutch on the raw power of a battlescout.

Edited November 8, 2014 by MiaowZedong

[Drakkolich]

Hi Worldwyde I'm seeing a lot of confusing statements from you and if you don't mind I have a few questions that might help figure everything out for you.

 

You talked about how your experience was not in question since you've been playing since it first came out, if you wouldn't mind could you let us know how many games you've played?

 

You also said that you prefer the novadive over the flashfire for killing gunships as a scout. If you could let know know the components and upgrades you use for these scouts maybe we could find out why you're having so much trouble.

 

I'm curious on what server you play on, maybe I could come play a few games with you and see how you fly if you're interested in something like that.

 

 

Now onto a few mistakes you mentioned.

 

Gunships actually have the second lowest health, but also has second highest shields of the 4 classes. They are broken down as thus:

Scout: Base hull: 950 Base shields: 1300

Gunship: Base hull: 1250 Base shields: 1700

Strike Fighter: Base hull 1450 Base shields: 1800

Bomber: Base hull 2000 Base shields: 1500

 

You mentioned that with upgrades a gunship could be mod able to have more speed then a scout with recharge .(I'm going to assume you meant regeneration thrusters here)

 

A Scouts Base turning is 1.8 Pitch and 1.08 Yaw, its base speed is 780m per second.

 

A Gunships Base turning is 1.5 Pitch and 0.9 Yaw, its base speed is 696m per second.

 

Now the only one gunship can even be modded for more speed, because only one of them has a thruster.

If we were to give the Jurgoran/Condor Speed Thrusters and were going to assume they are mastered here.

 

The Gunships speed can go up to 765.6m per second.

 

Even with the speed thrusters a gunship cannot exceed a Scouts speed. If you are going to argue that you can get more speed from an upgrade on your engine component the scout also has access to that upgrade making that argument invalid. On top of that the scout in this setup is using regeneration thrusters to have more engine power instead of more speed and is still faster then the gunship.

 

 

I think that if you are as experienced as you say you are, you're either fighting gunships that are much better then you at the game or are using a build that isn't that great against gunships. I look forward to hearing your answers.

If you have any questions on anything I posted feel free to let me know.

 

I'd also like to mention that the dots you put in between everything you type make it very hard to read your posts. What's the reason you are adding them in between everything anyways?

Edited November 8, 2014 by Drakkolich

[tunewalker]

Hi Worldwyde I'm seeing a lot of confusing statements from you and if you don't mind I have a few questions that might help figure everything out for you.

 

You talked about how your experience was not in question since you've been playing since it first came out, if you wouldn't mind could you let us know how many games you've played?

 

You also said that you prefer the novadive over the flashfire for killing gunships as a scout. If you could let know know the components and upgrades you use for these scouts maybe we could find out why you're having so much trouble.

 

I'm curious on what server you play on, maybe I could come play a few games with you and see how you fly if you're interested in something like that.

 

 

Now onto a few mistakes you mentioned.

 

Gunships actually have the second lowest health and shields of the 4 classes. They are broken down as thus:

Scout: Base hull: 950 Base shields: 1300

Gunship: Base hull: 1250 Base shields: 1500

Strike Fighter: Base hull 1450 Base shields: 1800

Bomber: Base hull 2000 Base shields: 1700

 

You mentioned that with upgrades a gunship could be mod able to have more speed then a scout with recharge .(I'm going to assume you meant regeneration thrusters here)

 

A Scouts Base turning is 1.8 Pitch and 1.08 Yaw, its base speed is 780m per second.

 

A Gunships Base turning is 1.5 Pitch and 0.9 Yaw, its base speed is 696m per second.

 

Now the only one gunship can even be modded for more speed, because only one of them has a thruster.

If we were to give the Jurgoran/Condor Speed Thrusters and were going to assume they are mastered here.

 

The Gunships speed can go up to 765.6m per second.

 

Even with the speed thrusters a gunship cannot exceed a Scouts speed. If you are going to argue that you can get more speed from an upgrade on your engine component the scout also has access to that upgrade making that argument invalid. On top of that the scout in this setup is using regeneration thrusters to have more engine power instead of more speed and is still faster then the gunship.

 

 

I think that if you are as experienced as you say you are, you're either fighting gunships that are much better then you at the game or are using a build that isn't that great against gunships. I look forward to hearing your answers.

If you have any questions on anything I posted feel free to let me know.

 

I'd also like to mention that the dots you put in between everything you type make it very hard to read your posts. What's the reason you are adding them in between everything anyways?

 

Have to correct your numbers drak sorry.

 

Scout health correct

Gunship Hull strength Correct, Base shields on the other hand is 1700 ( you can double check, have Disto + large reactor and no +10% from crew member, OR just put on Feedback shield and move both the reactor and the Crew guy)

Bomber Hull Strength Correct, Shield Strength 1500 (double checked through similar means (checked it 3 times to make sure everything was right), also can check with Repair probe, though when I double checked with that one it kept coming out to 1725, which didnt sound right, the calc on Dulfy (i know not really reliable) shows the 1500 as well.)

 

But ya Gunships DO have the second strongest shields next to strikes, though they have the second weakest hull.

[Drakkolich]

Have to correct your numbers drak sorry.

 

Scout health correct

Gunship Hull strength Correct, Base shields on the other hand is 1700 ( you can double check, have Disto + large reactor and no +10% from crew member, OR just put on Feedback shield and move both the reactor and the Crew guy)

Bomber Hull Strength Correct, Shield Strength 1500 (double checked through similar means (checked it 3 times to make sure everything was right), also can check with Repair probe, though when I double checked with that one it kept coming out to 1725, which didnt sound right, the calc on Dulfy (i know not really reliable) shows the 1500 as well.)

 

But ya Gunships DO have the second strongest shields next to strikes, though they have the second weakest hull.

 

Yep you're right I misread my notes good catch. Thanks.

[MaximilianPower]

yeah ... REALY ... not new .. and don't appreciate being berated on here because I have a concern! .. Game should be fun and enjoyable for all players .. not just those whom only play starfighter and think that a 10000 pt to 100 pt / or / 50 pt to 5 pt .. showing ...is " a Good Game" those a re down right slaughters and not enjoyable or fun for anyone .. not even the winning team.

 

I don't think you'll find a single person in this forum who will argue that what you're describing represents a "good game". I'm sure there are players who get a kick out of those roflstomps, but if you play a lot - as most of us here do - games like that get really old, really fast.

 

I suggest you dial back the defensiveness just a little, open yourself up to the possibility that there are a few folks who might have a little more experience than you, and maybe even learn a thing or two. There are a lot of genuinely helpful and knowledgeable people around here.

Edited November 8, 2014 by MaximilianPower

[Worldwyde]

Hi Worldwyde I'm seeing a lot of confusing statements from you and if you don't mind I have a few questions that might help figure everything out for you.

 

You talked about how your experience was not in question since you've been playing since it first came out, if you wouldn't mind could you let us know how many games you've played?

 

You also said that you prefer the novadive over the flashfire for killing gunships as a scout. If you could let know know the components and upgrades you use for these scouts maybe we could find out why you're having so much trouble.

 

I'm curious on what server you play on, maybe I could come play a few games with you and see how you fly if you're interested in something like that.

 

 

Now onto a few mistakes you mentioned.

 

Gunships actually have the second lowest health, but also has second highest shields of the 4 classes. They are broken down as thus:

Scout: Base hull: 950 Base shields: 1300

Gunship: Base hull: 1250 Base shields: 1700

Strike Fighter: Base hull 1450 Base shields: 1800

Bomber: Base hull 2000 Base shields: 1500

 

You mentioned that with upgrades a gunship could be mod able to have more speed then a scout with recharge .(I'm going to assume you meant regeneration thrusters here)

 

A Scouts Base turning is 1.8 Pitch and 1.08 Yaw, its base speed is 780m per second.

 

A Gunships Base turning is 1.5 Pitch and 0.9 Yaw, its base speed is 696m per second.

 

Now the only one gunship can even be modded for more speed, because only one of them has a thruster.

If we were to give the Jurgoran/Condor Speed Thrusters and were going to assume they are mastered here.

 

The Gunships speed can go up to 765.6m per second.

 

Even with the speed thrusters a gunship cannot exceed a Scouts speed. If you are going to argue that you can get more speed from an upgrade on your engine component the scout also has access to that upgrade making that argument invalid. On top of that the scout in this setup is using regeneration thrusters to have more engine power instead of more speed and is still faster then the gunship.

 

 

I think that if you are as experienced as you say you are, you're either fighting gunships that are much better then you at the game or are using a build that isn't that great against gunships. I look forward to hearing your answers.

If you have any questions on anything I posted feel free to let me know.

 

I'd also like to mention that the dots you put in between everything you type make it very hard to read your posts. What's the reason you are adding them in between everything anyways?

 

 

Thx for the feed back , it is appreciated

 

OK where to go?

 

I play Harbinger. and unfortunately .. on this server it is too common for routes .. and sadly a lot are 10000 - 42 or 50 - 0. in a day of playing (depending on if large guild presence might get half a dozen actually good games.

 

My Experience (this I will try to answer, but also avoids one of my points) I have 10 AV's I use .. and I try to play my Starfighter Dailey's (2- pts per day per av) if I manage to pull that off early (games queue fast) then I play an AV and still queue Starfighter. this comes out to a minimum of 10 games a day 5 days a week .. most weeks - and occasionally 20+ games in a day . Most Av's have 5 ships (a few have 3-4) and all are tier 3+.

 

I am a fair pilot and generally rank top 5 in a field hitting top spot on occasion .. and even in routes I will be top 3 for my sect (Republic is all I play because I find server loyalty an issue - as in .. why be my friend on a server one second and then my enemy the next)

 

The flashfire is no doubt an able fighter .. honestly my fav... but it seems to me that the Novo with the dumb fire rocket pod can inflict more damage on an attack run than the ff .. before the gs runs away and I have to turn and give chase or let him go and know he will be looking to snipe me there after.

 

when (if) I said the gs was mode-able to be faster .. I was actually meaning that by the time I blew my thrust and had to quick recharge ... (from covering the 15k distance to make an attack run .. he could flee/thrust and I could not catch him b4 I ran out of thrust and by then he would be seeking refuge at a capitol ship or satellite and turning to snipe at me.

 

Yea .. I have used a FF to kill gs's .but it certainly requires a less than able GS pilot to let you sit behind him and blast him to bits

 

but back to my concerns:

 

the GS is the only ship that has a feed back shield / fortress shield (which I care not about) / 15k range on a 2 gun platform that changes immediately and can one shot kill or one shot disable (up to 3 targets) / instant stop ability / and / ability to turn immediately toward their target - all other ships share systems and the GS also shares systems with the other ships (like dog fight missile pods??)

 

and my main and original concern: any ship with any weapons (even un upgraded) should have at least a reasonable chance of killing one ,,, obviously the better your ship/experience , the better/faster you will be able to kill them (or any other ship) but the way it is now .. an experienced GS pilot in a maxed ship .. will virtually rule the "Space"

 

for instance .. I attack a GS and destroy it (cause that what I try to do) it re-spawns .. one shots me cause I am tangling with his scouts while dodging fire from 3 other gs's and didn't see him return. while in the re-spawn queue, I see him kill 3 more ships. re-spawn takes upto 15 seconds - that is me dead and another ship every 4-5 seconds from the same ship??? and there are 5-6 gs's on the opposing board - well that explains the rout to me wow - look at that , I got the only kill in a 50-1 rout

 

its not cool and it is not a good game and yeah maybe some of the pilots on my team are not s experienced, but not all of them aren't. the 2-way communication and excessive use of the gs in guild play can only be thwarted by an opposing guild.

 

but if the game was less thug based (massive oneshot weapons with excessive range and the gs 's losing some survivability skills - then a ragtag squad of no names could at least enjoy the match as they gain experience as pilots

 

not to mention the large contingent of players that quit a game b4 it starts when they see who they are matched against and the ones that leave in the middle of a rout - oohhh and got to love the ones that get 10 kills behind and start intentionally crashing their ships as they re-pawn - Thanks for the team effort guys!

 

personally .. I like the crew skills ... I think it would be a better game if the crew members enhanced the ship abilities and all the other upgrades were cast aside. atleast it would be a skill based game which the more experience you have , the better you would be instead of creating weapon differences that give too big a firepower bonus.

 

Anyway ... enough .. I originally sent a note to the game people on a ticket .. they said I had to post here or it wouldn't get read by the right folks ... I knew I would be dis-satisfied with the forum format .. too many GS purists that want to keep their slaughtering abilities to have an open enough mind to accept the fact that there are issues - afterall ... when is the last time you saw a know GSer in a scout ... there is a reason for that! and they know what their reason is!

[Worldwyde]

I don't think you'll find a single person in this forum who will argue that what you're describing represents a "good game". I'm sure there are players who get a kick out of those roflstomps, but if you play a lot - as most of us here do - games like that get really old, really fast.

 

I suggest you dial back the defensiveness just a little, open yourself up to the possibility that there are a few folks who might have a little more experience than you, and maybe even learn a thing or two. There are a lot of genuinely helpful and knowledgeable people around here.

 

The FACT that a lot of folks on here have more experience than I is not now or ever was a question . the fact that there are "TACTICS" to build a scout and kill a GS are also not in question (I do it everyday).

 

Problem is they are broken and if only by a little .. it is too much.

 

the standard start up for f2p is a scout and a strike. for sub's scout strike and GS. why do so many accounts have 3 GS's and nothing else on them .. or my favorite 3 GS's and 2 bombers?

Because they generally (not always) occupy the top 3-6 spots on the leaderboard. - Now a discerning individual might stop and think "Why are soo many players stocking up on a specific ship type (that requires buying)?

 

so call it "Defensive" .. but make no mistake - I have a very open mind and have played all ship types, I am able to identify an issue or at the very least , the fact that an issue exists.

 

and as stated previously .. there are multiple abilities that only the gs's have where as other ships share their abilities and they share them with the GS"S as well ... it is unbalanced!

[btbarrett]

The flashfire is no doubt an able fighter .. honestly my fav... but it seems to me that the Novo with the dumb fire rocket pod can inflict more damage on an attack run than the ff .. before the gs runs away and I have to turn and give chase or let him go and know he will be looking to snipe me there after.

 

when (if) I said the gs was mode-able to be faster .. I was actually meaning that by the time I blew my thrust and had to quick recharge ... (from covering the 15k distance to make an attack run .. he could flee/thrust and I could not catch him b4 I ran out of thrust and by then he would be seeking refuge at a capitol ship or satellite and turning to snipe at me.

 

Yea .. I have used a FF to kill gs's .but it certainly requires a less than able GS pilot to let you sit behind him and blast him to bits

 

Can I ask what you use as your engine ability? Personally, what I do on all of my gunship hunters is to run w/ barrel roll or power dive. I use my engine ability as my gap closer typically pointed well above the gunship so they lose me from their LoS. With barrel roll this means I am usually w/in 5-6km by the end of my roll and am often behind them. This has the benefit of preserving almost all of my engine power for giving chase if/when the gunship breaks away after I open up on it. The other bonus of barrel roll is that for most gunship pilots it makes you a VERY hard target to hit while you are closing the gap. With regular boosters you really aren't that challenging of a target: particularly if you are flying straight so often times by the time you get to your target gunship you have taken a shot from his friend.

 

I think you main issue with the Flashfire is that you simply have a sub-optimal build for gunship hunting. The Flashfire is capable of doing everything the NovaDive can do, and doing it with more shields to boot. You like rocket podding gunships? Me too! The Flashfire does that every bit as well as the Nova Dive. Do you like bursting them down w/ primary weapons? Me too! The Flashfire does that even better than the Nova Dive in most situations with BLCs that ignore armor and the option for Blaster Overcharge or TT. The only things the Flashfire lacks that the NovaDive has are Laser Cannons (great weapons, but suboptimal for bursting down gunships) and a sensor component (almost totally useless) . In exchange you get a wider variety of (in my opinion) better primary weapons offerings, access to blaster overcharge, and a shield component to make you tankier.

 

There is a fair chance that you have more invested in your Nova Dive, req-wise, since it is one of your starter ships, but that isn't really the Flashfire's fault. If you switched to the Flashfire you would quickly discover that it is a superior ship in just about every way conceivable.

[btbarrett]

Problem is they are broken and if only by a little .. it is too much.

 

the standard start up for f2p is a scout and a strike. for sub's scout strike and GS. why do so many accounts have 3 GS's and nothing else on them .. or my favorite 3 GS's and 2 bombers?

Because they generally (not always) occupy the top 3-6 spots on the leaderboard. - Now a discerning individual might stop and think "Why are soo many players stocking up on a specific ship type (that requires buying)?

 

...

 

and as stated previously .. there are multiple abilities that only the gs's have where as other ships share their abilities and they share them with the GS"S as well ... it is unbalanced!

 

I really don't think they are broken. I think they hava a lower skill cap to play passably well, but that doesn't make them easier. If you look at the threads on this forum you will see that you can't go a single page w/o finding a thread saying scouts, or gunships, or bombers are overpowered. They aren't all overpowered: they are pretty well balanced. The only folks with a legitimate gripe, in my opinion, are the strike fighter pilots.

 

I am also not convinced that the prevalence of gunships is a good indicator that they are superior to other ships. The sniper play-style appeals to a lot of people. Go into any FPS ever, just about, and you will find an over-abundance of snipers. That doesn't mean that they are the best class, it simply means that people like playing them the most.

 

As for gunships having abilities that others do not, so does every class of ship. Name a non-scout w/ booster recharge or targeting telemetry or blaster overload. Name a non-strike that has quick-charge shields. Name a non-bomber that has any mine ability or rail-gun drone or interdiction drone. The point is that all classes have things that are unique to them, and for the most part they all have strong usage in the current meta. Aside from rail guns, I would assert that the gunship's unique abilities pale in comparison to that of bombers or scouts.

[SammyGStatus]

The FACT that a lot of folks on here have more experience than I is not now or ever was a question . the fact that there are "TACTICS" to build a scout and kill a GS are also not in question (I do it everyday).

 

Problem is they are broken and if only by a little .. it is too much.

 

the standard start up for f2p is a scout and a strike. for sub's scout strike and GS. why do so many accounts have 3 GS's and nothing else on them .. or my favorite 3 GS's and 2 bombers?

Because they generally (not always) occupy the top 3-6 spots on the leaderboard. - Now a discerning individual might stop and think "Why are soo many players stocking up on a specific ship type (that requires buying)?

 

so call it "Defensive" .. but make no mistake - I have a very open mind and have played all ship types, I am able to identify an issue or at the very least , the fact that an issue exists.

 

and as stated previously .. there are multiple abilities that only the gs's have where as other ships share their abilities and they share them with the GS"S as well ... it is unbalanced!

 

Aces will still top you in any ship unless you are an ace of equal skill in the ship you fly, or better. Unfortunately, you aren't using facts and instead are basing much of your gripe from an assumption "specifically, why do so many accounts have 3 GS's". That shows player preference, not ship ability. There are two players who I will admit score better numbers than me, and they both play scout. I don't understand where you are coming from at all, as whenever scrab and are facing off, he doesn't leave me alone. If ere is a GS on e other side, regardless of if you "want" to engage it, you freakin have to. That's YOUR job, and experience says that scouts are the best at nullifying e effectiveness of gunships..

 

You want GS to be less OP. I submit that you need to get better. Not insulting you, not diminishing your abilities, but from my 3900+ games, I can confirm that you are confused about who will win this fight (especially wi RNG and evasion both stacking on the side of the scout).

[Fractalsponge]

The most dangerous build for gunships is actually a T1 scout with telemetry/laser/rockets and shield to engine. This can run anything down and power very evasive approach to target, even without dfield. However, few pilots run that build as their primary ship, as it requires disproportionately more work to produce great results compared to the garden variety battlescout, and is very much limited in its ability to dogfight compared to a cluster-equipped T2 with difeld.

 

Another reason to not run it is that the generalist dogfighting T2 scout can also burst down gunships and chase about as well for the short period of gunship engine endurance. Only the best GS pilots will be able to kill or evade such a scout without assistance or something to distract the scout, and it's only really consistently doable when there is a skill delta.

 

The only folks with a legitimate gripe, in my opinion, are the strike fighter pilots.

Name a non-strike that has quick-charge shields.

...

 

Aside from rail guns, I would assert that the gunship's unique abilities pale in comparison to that of bombers or scouts.

 

Minor gripe: battlescout can take quick charge. The only unique strike component options are repair probes on the T3, which goes a long way to explain why imperium/clarion is pretty much the only kind of strike worth seriously flying. Strikes are fun, but just not competitive at the high end of play for the same effort - though I would say the class is intrinsically limited in its ability to produce top-flight results in the current meta.

[nyghtrunner]

Minor gripe: battlescout can take quick charge. The only unique strike component options are repair probes on the T3, which goes a long way to explain why imperium/clarion is pretty much the only kind of strike worth seriously flying.

Minor gripe #2. Ion Cannons on the T1 are unique. But I also was about to point out that the T2 scout has access to Quick Charge Shield. I largely agree with the rest of your strike assessment, though. I love flying the T1, but not because it's a beast. It's just fun to fly.

 

To the OP - It looks like most of your gripes center around Gunships. I can definitely understand that, since, as a scout pilot, they really, really annoy me at times with their range, and occasional elusiveness. I'll note, though, that it's really only the best of the best that can truly make it difficult for me to catch and end them when I'm in a Scout.

 

As for the T1/T2 debate as a counter to Gunships, I do think the T1 has a slight edge in the case, but the reason is that it is a specialized build, and you don't often specialize the T2 in the same way. But you can definitely make a GS hunter out of a T2, and one equipped with Barrel Roll, Quads, Pods, and BO can truly make short work of a GS.

 

The thing with the T2 is that you're often looking for a balance between being really good at taking out gunships/bombers, and being really good at dogfighting. There are very few "wrong" ways to build the T2, but I think it's very true that the further you take it in specializing in turning battles, speed, or burst damage, the worse you make it in the other areas. It's just something to keep in mind.

 

It also sounds like you're making an error on approach, and I would guess it's similar to one I used to make. I found myself overshooting GSers before they were dead because of RNG/Evasion, Fortress Shields, etc, and once I passed them, it made finishing them EXTREMELY difficult. I'd have to turn around, find them again as they ran (or stayed), and line up another pass, but in that kind of tight operational space (especially if they stay put), you run the risk of turning too early, and not giving yourself another good pass before you go beyond them again. If they run, you're out of position, and you give them an extremely solid head start, which makes catching them very difficult.

 

Try parking the car. Not for long, but try to fly into your damage range (not long range, especially if they're not aware of you). That's usually somewhere between 500-1500m. Then hit "x" to stop, and open up with weapons. If I'm rocking Clusters, I'll often forego the lock if I know they haven't seen me, because I don't want to let them know I'm there audibly. So I will often rely simply on BLCs in that situation, and then use Clusters if/when they run.

 

By doing this, you actually force them to run or die. And then you are in prime position to follow. You don't want to stay parked too long because you're a sitting duck when you do it, but you can usually allow yourself the time for 4-6 BLC shots, which should be enough to chew through a GS. If you're running Rocket Pods, you speed up the clock considerably, into the 2-3 "volley" range ("volley" defined by clicking both mouse buttons at the same time to fire 1 BLC shot and 1 Pod).

 

The "bomberball" strat to a TDM is annoying because it is very effective, and requires a lot of team coordination to break up. It's so easy to set up that it can make collections of good pilots who may or may not know each other look like a premade, and it comes close to needing a premade/voice to counter. Or at a minimum, someone who is willing to be a team player, and swap to a sub optimal ship to deal with the bombs, and then let his friends go in and clean up. As a solo-queueing scout, it's not the sort of thing you can truly counter on your own, but this is kind of as it should be, because if you make it too easy to break up, then you kind of invalidate a very good team strategy.

 

Honestly, one of the best things BioWare could do to "fix" this would be to actually have the EMP effects match their tooltips, or maybe even buff them slightly. Right now, it's the sort of effect you want on the bar to deal with bomberballs, but it is a highly specialized ship with only one real role, which keeps most people from playing it. To the solo-queuer, flying it effectively means nerfing yourself to bolster your team, which isn't an appealing option, especially if you feel like you're the most capable killer on the team.

 

Personally, I prefer EMP missiles, and actually have a Quell build I will put on my bar that is specifically set up to go in after bomber nests. EMP from range, Clusters and Quads for when you get in close, and all the Damage Reduction I can throw on it. It's a garbage ship for real dogfighting, or going after gunships, but it can go in and clear out bombs. And now that I think about it, it might be better with Heavies and Concussions over Quads and Clusters because of the armor ignore and extra range... But the point is the same. It is a ship that has exactly 1 purpose, and it sucks for pretty much all other scenarios.

Edited November 13, 2014 by nyghtrunner

[Fractalsponge]

Minor gripe #2. Ion Cannons on the T1 are unique. But I also was about to point out that the T2 scout has access to Quick Charge Shield. I largely agree with the rest of your strike assessment, though. I love flying the T1, but not because it's a beast. It's just fun to fly.

 

Ions, of course! A good component, but not really definitive in the way that telemetry, railguns, or mines are.

[nyghtrunner]

Ions, of course! A good component, but not really definitive in the way that telemetry, railguns, or mines are.

Oh, absolutely not. Was just being nit-picky.