WilliamSteeves Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) We have all seen the Clone wars lasted T.V. show on teletoon network I presume. So we all should know of the episode where Yoda go on his own force journey to get answer for who the sith lord is. When he meets Darth Bane. But wait Darth Bane is not cannon any more is he according to Disney Star Wars book and game not are released before their purchase of Star Wars are not cannon. Darth Bane is based off of the books call the The Darth Bane trilogy which includes the three books in the trilogy Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Darth Bane: Rule of Two, and Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil. But your asking what dose this half to do with Swtor and Kotor Well In the trilogy they talk about how Darth Bane was trained by Revan (via holocron) and who do u play ask in Kotor Darth Revan and u hear a lot of about Revan in Swtor from the order of the Revan (Revanites) So in conclusion either Swtor and Kotor has to be cannon or Disney will have to make brand new story for Darth Revan and Darth Bane Edited October 13, 2014 by WilliamSteeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Darth Bane was created way before Karpyshyn messed him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamSteeves Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Darth Bane was created way before Karpyshyn messed him up. I had to use a example and that was those book were the one that poped into my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I had to use a example and that was those book were the one that poped into my head Well, your premise is that if Bane is canon, then Revan is canon, which means SWTOR/KOTOR and all of that is canon. Fact is that George Lucas created Darth Bane quite some time before the Bane trilogy was written. So there is no real reason to make that stuff canon just on these grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Darth Bane was created way before Karpyshyn messed him up.Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Ouch. Isn't it true, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Isn't it true, though?Well, I myself quite enjoyed the Bane Trilogy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Well, I myself quite enjoyed the Bane Trilogy... The books were fine, I had a problem with how the Rule of Two came about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The books were fine, I had a problem with how the Rule of Two came about.Cause Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Cause Revan. Well, yes. To me, Darth Bane's situation should have made the Rule of Two an obvious solution to Sith infighting. But apparently Bane needed some 2,000 year old relic to tell him that, even though Revan never implemented it in the first place and goes completely against what we are told about him in KOTOR 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Well, yes. To me, Darth Bane's situation should have made the Rule of Two an obvious solution to Sith infighting. But apparently Bane needed some 2,000 year old relic to tell him that, even though Revan never implemented it in the first place and goes completely against what we are told about him in KOTOR 2.Well, I thought it provided an elegant solution to the whole Master & Apprentice paradigm we see in KOTOR, despite the absence of the Rule of Two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Well, I thought it provided an elegant solution to the whole Master & Apprentice paradigm we see in KOTOR, despite the absence of the Rule of Two. Or Bane, the lore-junkie the Bane trilogy makes him out to be, could have used it as an example and formed the Rule of Two from it. You can include Revan if you want, but don't take away from the greatness of another character to do it. That way, Bane is still a smart guy and Karpyshyn gets to include the object of his obsession. Edited October 13, 2014 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Or Bane, the lore-junkie the Bane trilogy makes him out to be, could have used it as an example and formed the Rule of Two from it. You can include Revan if you want, but don't take away from the greatness of another character to do it. That way, Bane is still a smart guy and Karpyshyn gets to include the object of his obsession.Overall, I liked the Bane trilogy, but yeah the "he got it from Revan" origin/retcon of the Rule of Two was... not the high point of the series. I mean even before there was any indication of "one Master, one Apprentice" in G-canon, we had the Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith comic where Marka Ragnos' force ghost specifically shows up to stop Sith in-fighting by ordaining Exar Kun as Master and Ulic Qel-Droma as Apprentice. Seems like, if anything, Bane should have gotten inspiration from Ragnos (Ghost!Ragnos: "no, really, this time it'll work! I swear!") or at least have Darth Revan tracing his own Master/Apprentice ideology back to that pairing, so that it would seem like part of a longer evolution of Kun/Qel-Droma -> Revan/Malak -> Bane(/Zannah). At the end of the day, having the Rule of Two originate at the same time the Sith are believed to go extinct never made much sense, anyway. The whole "Kibh Jeen tells them about it, but most Jedi think he's crazy" explanation just didn't work that well - it was such a blatant attempt to fix a plot hole (though at least they made the attempt, I guess). Edited October 14, 2014 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) We have all seen the Clone wars lasted T.V. show on teletoon network I presume. So we all should know of the episode where Yoda go on his own force journey to get answer for who the sith lord is. When he meets Darth Bane. But wait Darth Bane is not cannon any more is he according to Disney Star Wars book and game not are released before their purchase of Star Wars are not cannon. Darth Bane is based off of the books call the The Darth Bane trilogy which includes the three books in the trilogy Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Darth Bane: Rule of Two, and Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil. But your asking what dose this half to do with Swtor and Kotor Well In the trilogy they talk about how Darth Bane was trained by Revan (via holocron) and who do u play ask in Kotor Darth Revan and u hear a lot of about Revan in Swtor from the order of the Revan (Revanites) So in conclusion either Swtor and Kotor has to be cannon or Disney will have to make brand new story for Darth Revan and Darth Bane Saying:"Darth Bane (the character) is Canon, therefore the Path of Destruction novel is Canon" is no more true than saying: "Obi-Wan Kenobi is Canon, therefore the Star Wars Annual 1: The Long Hunt comic book is Canon" Most of the EU works that are now "Legends" feature Canon characters and describe events from those characters' lives - but simply featuring a Canon character does not mean the Legends stories about them become Canon, too. Edited October 14, 2014 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galdos Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Saying:"Darth Bane (the character) is Canon, therefore the Path of Destruction novel is Canon" is no more true than saying: "Obi-Wan Kenobi is Canon, therefore the Star Wars Annual 1: The Long Hunt comic book is Canon" Most of the EU works that are now "Legends" feature Canon characters and describe events from those characters' lives - but simply featuring a Canon character does not mean the Legends stories about them become Canon, too. I always find it funny when people think that because a canon story mentions something from Legends, it means that said Legends story is canon also. If it did that Episodes 7,8,9 would run into issue as the Thrawn trilogy would be canon still. After all it was the Thrawn trilogy that named Coruscant Coruscant, not George Lucas. GL simply liked it so he kept it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguiluna Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Darth Bane was created way before Karpyshyn messed him up. THANK YOU. Honestly, despite how much I appreciate the Bane trilogy, the whole "Revan invented the Rule of Two first" idea was one of the worst retcons in the Legends timeline. I wouldn't have minded a reverent Revan mention at some point, but what Karpyshyn did with the Rule of Two, that was some Karen Traviss-level BS there, and it just reeked of fanboyism of a game developer who had such a hardon for his own character that he couldn't resist diluting the legacy of possibly the most important Dark Lord in the history of the Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamSteeves Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 THANK YOU. Honestly, despite how much I appreciate the Bane trilogy, the whole "Revan invented the Rule of Two first" idea was one of the worst retcons in the Legends timeline. I wouldn't have minded a reverent Revan mention at some point, but what Karpyshyn did with the Rule of Two, that was some Karen Traviss-level BS there, and it just reeked of fanboyism of a game developer who had such a hardon for his own character that he couldn't resist diluting the legacy of possibly the most important Dark Lord in the history of the Sith. But revan was a lunatic that want the Jedi and sith order to lose not like Darth bane who want to make the best sith empire ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Well, I myself quite enjoyed the Bane Trilogy... The Bane trilogy was tripe, only the first novel was anywhere close to good. Seriously, Bane had the same character explanation and depth as that one Sith guard we met outside Korriban that one time in Kotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The Bane trilogy was tripe, only the first novel was anywhere close to good. Seriously, Bane had the same character explanation and depth as that one Sith guard we met outside Korriban that one time in Kotor.Uh huh. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrr_hypernova Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 But revan was a lunatic that want the Jedi and sith order to lose not like Darth bane who want to make the best sith empire ever The empire that lasted a few decades and had its boss killed by neophyte jedi and a crippled cyborg? They did have a ****** fleet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Hmm *smiles' all very interesting, but, how about giving the kid an answer on the OP!? My take? well, by that TCW episode we know the following: 1) There were a Sith Lord named Darth Bane, and the operative word being were as Yoda lets us know his dead and no more is a threat. 2) Darth Bane explicitly is named, by Yoda, as the creator of 'The Rule of Two'- The Conclusions? There were in some time of Galaxy history a Sith Lord named Darth Bane and he created 'The Rule of Two', BUT, from that nothing else can be made Canon; meaning we know nothing about the Why, the How and the When, that is still to be delivered by Disney ... so the why, how and when is still Legend . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 its already been confirmed Darth Bane started the rule of two a thousand years before the movie. Darth Bane An ancient and legendary Sith Lord, it was Darth Bane who saw that the Sith traditions of old were ultimately a dead end. All too often, squabbling Sith in their bid for power upended carefully laid plans. After the Sith were decimated by the Jedi Knights of a thousand years ago, Bane enacted the Sith rule of two: there would be only two active Sith at one time -- a Dark Lord to embody the power, and an apprentice to crave it. These Sith would operate in the shadows, favoring guile and conspiracy to bring down their opponents rather than brute force -- that is, until it was time to rise and subjugate the galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 its already been confirmed Darth Bane started the rule of two a thousand years before the movie. Darth Bane An ancient and legendary Sith Lord, it was Darth Bane who saw that the Sith traditions of old were ultimately a dead end. All too often, squabbling Sith in their bid for power upended carefully laid plans. After the Sith were decimated by the Jedi Knights of a thousand years ago, Bane enacted the Sith rule of two: there would be only two active Sith at one time -- a Dark Lord to embody the power, and an apprentice to crave it. These Sith would operate in the shadows, favoring guile and conspiracy to bring down their opponents rather than brute force -- that is, until it was time to rise and subjugate the galaxy. Still having problem putting a source to your knowledge!? We know the legend lore mate, the question was what after the Disney purge can be considered Canon, and a statement claiming to be Canon must by definition be accompanied by a source . . . And that source must be considered official . . . well, it feel we went over this before ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Still having problem putting a source to your knowledge!? We know the legend lore mate, the question was what after the Disney purge can be considered Canon, and a statement claiming to be Canon must by definition be accompanied by a source . . . And that source must be considered official . . . well, it feel we went over this before ...That is a quote from Darth Bane's Databank entry, so that is the extent of his canonical story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Still having problem putting a source to your knowledge!? We know the legend lore mate, the question was what after the Disney purge can be considered Canon, and a statement claiming to be Canon must by definition be accompanied by a source . . . And that source must be considered official . . . well, it feel we went over this before ... clearly you yourself didnt know the lore if you had to state this. Edited October 17, 2014 by Girdeux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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