Intentional suicides.

[Wasbeer]

It's been on the rise, I've noticed a gradual and now problematic increase to the amount of people who will intentionally suicide into debris/structure in GSF to deny a kill when they're about to die. It's not the first game to encounter this problem and it has a very simple and easy fix. The last player that has done at least (X)% damage to the player before they suicide/collide within the last (Y) seconds gets credit. This is something that if not resolved soon will only grow into a bigger problem. It's not too terrible yet but it certainly wont get better on its own.

[zaskar]

This comes and goes in waves based on the maturity of the server's pilot skills. Those people doing this will quit because they are not gaining more skill or will learn. I've seen this cycle happen twice in the last year.

[Ryuku-sama]

It's been on the rise, I've noticed a gradual and now problematic increase to the amount of people who will intentionally suicide into debris/structure in GSF to deny a kill when they're about to die. It's not the first game to encounter this problem and it has a very simple and easy fix. The last player that has done at least (X)% damage to the player before they suicide/collide within the last (Y) seconds gets credit. This is something that if not resolved soon will only grow into a bigger problem. It's not too terrible yet but it certainly wont get better on its own.

 

Why do you care?? the enemy is dead.... Go after the next and keep going.. Or are you just after the e-peen stroking of saying how your KDR is so high???

[Wasbeer]

Why do you care?? the enemy is dead.... Go after the next and keep going.. Or are you just after the e-peen stroking of saying how your KDR is so high???

 

Kill = EXP.

[Blackiesmith]

The suicides are not going away. It is going to become part of the game more and more because people would rather suicide than give the satisfaction of another player killing them. It is more like human nature only way to get rid of it is to penalize it otherwise good luck-Primos Edited October 10, 2014 by Blackiesmith

[Ryuku-sama]

Kill = EXP.

 

assist = same old **** as kill

[Wasbeer]

assist = same old **** as kill

Why do you have a problem with it granting kill so much? There's no reason not to implement this change. Do you just have an addiction to suicide and don't want to have things changed for that reason?

[Ryuku-sama]

Why do you have a problem with it granting kill so much? There's no reason not to implement this change. Do you just have an addiction to suicide and don't want to have things changed for that reason?

 

Honestly I don,t care. I just want to be sure you know you're losing nothing but e-peen stroking stats by letting them suicide.. hell you're probably gaining time, ammo you could have needed, engine and weapon energy you would have used.

As long as self destructing doesn't impact on the self destructing pilot otherwise than by adding a death to his stat I don't care... if self-destructing does impact more.. I would simply say there are one manoeuver, a lot of defensive flying tricks and a few offensive ones that can lead to a self destruct due to a minor mistake. I've seen vets self destruct at launch because they had forgotten they had PDie instead of Roll.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ryuku-sama

[Drakkolich]

I can see why you are frustrated by the change as you want that killing blow, but the thing is what if you did 80% of his I health, I get 1 shot in and then he suicides, that means I would get the kill. Not to mention if you have hit them and they suicide you still get an assist. An assist is worth the exact same amount of requisition as a kill, just check the requisition tab at the end of a match.

 

If we look at a situation where you do 95% of a targets health in damage and I shoot once and get the kill, that's not really any different for you then him self destructing. So in the end nothing really changes with your proposed change.

 

If there is some other reason you are talking about this I'm not seeing please let me know.

[MaximilianPower]

Why do you care?? the enemy is dead.... Go after the next and keep going.. Or are you just after the e-peen stroking of saying how your KDR is so high???

 

Agree.

 

I'm more concerned with the folks who repeatedly suicide solely in the interests of hastening a TDM. Those players are only after conquest points. That's the kind of crap that ruins games. I've seen this behavior on TEH a couple times (once with the offender explicitly admitting his intentions). Don't see it on JC as much, only suspected it once or twice. When a guy does zero damage and has 10 deaths...well, you don't have to be a detective.

 

@OP - are you certain this isn't why you're seeing intentional suicides on the rise? How do you know those guys are just trying to deny you a kill?

[Wasbeer]

Agree.

 

I'm more concerned with the folks who repeatedly suicide solely in the interests of hastening a TDM. Those players are only after conquest points. That's the kind of crap that ruins games. I've seen this behavior on TEH a couple times (once with the offender explicitly admitting his intentions). Don't see it on JC as much, only suspected it once or twice. When a guy does zero damage and has 10 deaths...well, you don't have to be a detective.

 

@OP - are you certain this isn't why you're seeing intentional suicides on the rise? How do you know those guys are just trying to deny you a kill?

 

Well if they're trying to kill me in return, evading as best they can and I've taken off 80% or more of their hull and they suddenly turn and sprint straight for a debris or structure it's usually a pretty good sign. As for people throwing deathmatches I haven't seen it yet myself. In regards to if the EXP is the same it's still being a poor sport and should be discouraged. Sure sometimes it can happen by accident and nothing can be done of that but the intentional suicides aren't good for anyone. I've held on long enough at 10-20% hull to take down an extra target or two before dying or finding another player who's dropped a repair probe. Other times I end up getting taken out and that's part of the game, but having people just take themselves out is disruptive to the game environment.

[Drakkolich]

Well if they're trying to kill me in return, evading as best they can and I've taken off 80% or more of their hull and they suddenly turn and sprint straight for a debris or structure it's usually a pretty good sign. As for people throwing deathmatches I haven't seen it yet myself. In regards to if the EXP is the same it's still being a poor sport and should be discouraged. Sure sometimes it can happen by accident and nothing can be done of that but the intentional suicides aren't good for anyone. I've held on long enough at 10-20% hull to take down an extra target or two before dying or finding another player who's dropped a repair probe. Other times I end up getting taken out and that's part of the game, but having people just take themselves out is disruptive to the game environment.

 

As to it being a poor sport absolutely, but if a player so bent on you not kill him is willing to on purpose smash his face in a wall just so you can't get the satisfaction of finishing him off, do you really think a 1 in the kill column instead of a 1 in the assist column is going to discourage him?

 

As for it being disruptive to the game environment I just can't see that. In what context is someone bashing there face in a wall that you are trying to kill disruptive? Do you mean like for your own mental health or something, that without that satisfactory killing blow your game experience just isn't complete? I mean if anything as you said a good pilot can be evasive and survive with little health till they get healed or get some more damage in. If anything the pilots doing this to you are giving your team an advantage.

 

I just don't see how that 1 in the kill column instead of the assist column is making anyone's game experience diminished. I myself am super embarrassed when the words "Drakolich has Self Destructed" go across the screen for everyone to read. When others do it I just kind of giggle or tease my teammates if it was them.

[ThutmoseV]

We've all seen where we do 90% of the damage and some other pilot finishes him off and gets the kill. We have also seen were someone else does 90% damage and we get the kill with 1 shot. It does not bother me, I like it when I get double digits in assists as much as in kills.

[Wasbeer]

As to it being a poor sport absolutely, but if a player so bent on you not kill him is willing to on purpose smash his face in a wall just so you can't get the satisfaction of finishing him off, do you really think a 1 in the kill column instead of a 1 in the assist column is going to discourage him?

 

As for it being disruptive to the game environment I just can't see that. In what context is someone bashing there face in a wall that you are trying to kill disruptive? Do you mean like for your own mental health or something, that without that satisfactory killing blow your game experience just isn't complete? I mean if anything as you said a good pilot can be evasive and survive with little health till they get healed or get some more damage in. If anything the pilots doing this to you are giving your team an advantage.

 

I just don't see how that 1 in the kill column instead of the assist column is making anyone's game experience diminished. I myself am super embarrassed when the words "Drakolich has Self Destructed" go across the screen for everyone to read. When others do it I just kind of giggle or tease my teammates if it was them.

 

It does kill some of the immersive aspect of the game yes because pilots getting suicidal with an asteroid on purpose is just dumb, and as far as game play yes because if they actually fought on they may survive and create a larger impact on the battle. It may also lure away opponents into focus firing a near dead ship because they're hungry for the kill while team mates move in on objectives or flank them as they give chase. So there are plenty of reasons that it should be discouraged.

[MaximusRex]

Honestly I don,t care. I just want to be sure you know you're losing nothing but e-peen stroking stats by letting them suicide.. hell you're probably gaining time, ammo you could have needed, engine and weapon energy you would have used.

As long as self destructing doesn't impact on the self destructing pilot otherwise than by adding a death to his stat I don't care... if self-destructing does impact more.. I would simply say there are one manoeuver, a lot of defensive flying tricks and a few offensive ones that can lead to a self destruct due to a minor mistake. I've seen vets self destruct at launch because they had forgotten they had PDie instead of Roll.

 

This, you care about your epeen so much you want to waste dev time making a meaningless change, or worse, they could potentially make a change that does more to discourage suicides and makes it harder on your team to win matches. Really selfish.

[Wasbeer]

This, you care about your epeen so much you want to waste dev time making a meaningless change, or worse, they could potentially make a change that does more to discourage suicides and makes it harder on your team to win matches. Really selfish.

So many jumping to wild conclusions, who would have thought something like this could receive so much flame from people who aren't willing to think it over or read. I've given plenty of good reasons why it's an issue, and for you here's another. You have a new player, they struggle and they're finally about to get that kill they've been working hard for through their frustrations. Now that other player suddenly rams into an asteroid. Think that might just annoy them further decreasing the likelyhood they'll keep playing GSF? There's a good chance it might do just that. Discouraging suicide by granting kill credit to the last attacker will in no way make GSF harder. I fail to see your logic here.

[MaximilianPower]

Well if they're trying to kill me in return, evading as best they can and I've taken off 80% or more of their hull and they suddenly turn and sprint straight for a debris or structure it's usually a pretty good sign. As for people throwing deathmatches I haven't seen it yet myself.

 

lol, fair enough. I guess that's obvious.

 

that said, i can't figure out why 1) you think this materially affects the state of the game (since you already whittled away ~80% of the guy's health anyway), or 2) this bothers you. let 'em self-destruct, they're only hurting themselves (literally and figuratively).

[Drakkolich]

It does kill some of the immersive aspect of the game yes because pilots getting suicidal with an asteroid on purpose is just dumb, and as far as game play yes because if they actually fought on they may survive and create a larger impact on the battle. It may also lure away opponents into focus firing a near dead ship because they're hungry for the kill while team mates move in on objectives or flank them as they give chase. So there are plenty of reasons that it should be discouraged.

 

It's definitely not immersive to have someone suicide on purpose infront of you instead of fighting until they are eventually shot I agree. However I think we need to put ourselves in the head of a person that would be willing to do such an act.

 

To be willing to kill yourself just to eliminate the chance at being killed by someone specific or even at all seems to me would be born of frustration. Imagine fighting someone superior to you over and over and having no chance at winning and the only means of satisfaction at your disposal is perhaps denying them the kill. I think this is where your self destructers heads are at.

 

Now in this scenario the frustrated pilot is just trying to get anything they can grasp at as a moral victory in their minds. This self destruct gives them that moral victory, they feel like even though they lost the fight they won a little something at the end of it. Lets assume your change went threw and instead of an assist on the scoreboard at the end, you got a kill. Do you think that would take away the moral victory this type of pilot was looking for?

 

In conclusion I have to think that even if your change went live all that would really change are everyone's kills and assists numbers. I'm pretty the players that are doing this now (which by the way in the 3500+ games I have played I can't remember a single player doing this repeatedly) would continue on just to win there tiny victories.

 

I'd also like to point out that I completely agree that said players should just fight to the bitter end, as not doing so is just giving your team a disadvantage. I just don't see your proposed fix or any I can think of changing anything said players would do.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

It's definitely not immersive to have someone suicide on purpose infront of you instead of fighting until they are eventually shot I agree. However I think we need to put ourselves in the head of a person that would be willing to do such an act.

 

To be willing to kill yourself just to eliminate the chance at being killed by someone specific or even at all seems to me would be born of frustration. Imagine fighting someone superior to you over and over and having no chance at winning and the only means of satisfaction at your disposal is perhaps denying them the kill. I think this is where your self destructers heads are at.

 

Now in this scenario the frustrated pilot is just trying to get anything they can grasp at as a moral victory in their minds. This self destruct gives them that moral victory, they feel like even though they lost the fight they won a little something at the end of it. Lets assume your change went threw and instead of an assist on the scoreboard at the end, you got a kill. Do you think that would take away the moral victory this type of pilot was looking for?

 

In conclusion I have to think that even if your change went live all that would really change are everyone's kills and assists numbers. I'm pretty the players that are doing this now (which by the way in the 3500+ games I have played I can't remember a single player doing this repeatedly) would continue on just to win there tiny victories.

 

I'd also like to point out that I completely agree that said players should just fight to the bitter end, as not doing so is just giving your team a disadvantage. I just don't see your proposed fix or any I can think of changing anything said players would do.

 

Pretty much this. I think if someone's got it in their heads that suicide is a moral victory for them they'd do it regardless of whether it gave you an assist or a kill.

[Verain]

Briefly:

 

I feel Drako is correct that YOUR response to this is under your control. Marcus Aurelius would approve! You should choose to not be bothered by the enemies flying into walls. Perhaps it can amuse you, because if your foes must kill themselves, if that is the one comfort you have left them, then you have won such a complete victory that it is indescribable.

 

However- I feel that the devs should do something similar to this suggestion. The map is not the territory: the scoreboard is not the game. But the scoreboard guides many players. If the scoreboard was not there, if there were no record of kills at all, then those players would not be encouraged by the combination of their own fundamentally broken priorities and their desire to cause you harm in the one way left to them- so the solution is to, upon a player dashing into a rock, sometimes assign a kill, based upon factors that the devs could decide (for instance, if you have dealt a lot of damage and have a missile in flight, that would be a kill, but if you hit their shield once and they ran into a wall, or if Drako hit them for 400 once after you took them down to low, it would not). I doubt they would do something like that: they would probably just make it count as a kill.

 

Once it counts as a kill, it would stop encouraging the very terrible and dense players who do that, to do that. That would then be better for the game: the scoreboard should not be bribing players to act irrationally, even if the only players so bribed are fools.

 

 

 

Still, which of these do you have control over? The answer is, you have control over your response to the player doing that. You can be amused by their meaningless struggles, themselves a profound act of submission.

[Arkerus]

You don't look at kills as a primary "skill" indicator. You look at damage done, received and objective.

 

Damage done shows that someone is at least contributing to the success of the team. Suicides don't matter in the least.

[Salakast]

I'm not bothered by swapping a kill for an assist by someone suiciding, but struggle with the mentality of it. if you're going to reach the asteroid before whoever's behind you can blow you up, why not try nipping behind it to LOS them? Ok 9/10 they're gonna get you anyway, but on the 10th you might get away. No one would voluntarily take a lower health pool into a GSF match, so why give that last bit away?

 

I have definitely seen Conquest farmers ruining games though, most noticeably in a TDM our side lost 24-50 with one idiot having 26 suicides. Ruined a potentially hard fought game for the sake of saving himself a few minutes

[nyghtrunner]

Honestly, the only point at which I think it would be a problem is in the situation described above, where a player or series of players is trying to farm conquest points by suiciding their team, and I've never seen that, only heard of it. I did see someone get pissed off and suicide our team because we weren't typing the answers to his questions fast enough...

 

Anyway, I think that people who intentionally suicide to the tune of 26 deaths should be disciplined (if it can be proven), because that's obnoxious. I was pissed at the one guy, but I'm not going to pass judgement. It was a close game that he ruined the end of, but it is what it is, and I guess I still understand the 4 year old mentality?

 

Otherwise, when I'm flying, I truly don't give a damn if someone suicides as I'm about to kill them. Or if a teammate comes through and steals the kill. That just means I'm clear to go after my next target. If they do it to "deny me the kill", more power to them, but the only thrill they'll get is in imagining my frustration. Assist MVPs are harder to get for a scout pilot anyway, so every little bit helps.

[arkanone]

I see alot of gunships doing it but its actually the smart play if you've been chasing them around long enough and they're way out of position. Respawning gets you off their back and may put them closer to their camping spot.

[arkanone]

I see alot of gunships doing it but its actually the smart play if you've been chasing them around long enough and they're way out of position. Respawning gets you off their back and may put them closer to their camping spot.