Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Galactic Alliance vs Phantom Hegemony

[Silenceo]

Before we get too far away from the topic of suppliers, what would the GA receive from the Yutrane-Trackata that they can make use of here, I wonder?

 

MOOOORE TANKS!

 

MZ-8 Mobile Pulse Cannon

T1-B hovertank

T2-B repulsor tank

T3-B heavy attack tank

T4-B heavy tank

Yutrane-Trackata mining vehicle

 

The Pulse Cannon is an extremely powerful gun that even in small doses, could prove quite lethal, perhaps collapse a few choke points, or cause avalanches? The entire T-B line up are all great and work well with the specforce and their preferred tactics. Perhaps get a few T2's to act as spec forces transportation through warzones.

 

While it is useless in most situations... The mining vehicle could prove useful in this battlefield... I shall elaborate once I have given Karadron to think of the possibilities.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

Beni, nowhere in my sources, which are noted as linked to that specific quote, mentions of any 'extra' stealth training, so the saboteurs don't have extra stealth training, they all have the same.

*shrug* The point that I was trying to make is that in order to receive extra training in something, you have to have been trained in it in the first place. However you've since made clear that all Storm Commandos are trained in stealth.

[Beniboybling]

It's always good to see new participants.

It is indeed nice to see a new face... to bad he picked the wrong side.

[Beniboybling]

Before we get too far away from the topic of suppliers, what would the GA receive from the Yutrane-Trackata that they can make use of here, I wonder?

 

MOOOORE TANKS!

 

MZ-8 Mobile Pulse Cannon

T1-B hovertank

T2-B repulsor tank

T3-B heavy attack tank

T4-B heavy tank

Yutrane-Trackata mining vehicle

 

The Pulse Cannon is an extremely powerful gun that even in small doses, could prove quite lethal, perhaps collapse a few choke points, or cause avalanches? The entire T-B line up are all great and work well with the specforce and their preferred tactics. Perhaps get a few T2's to act as spec forces transportation through warzones.

 

While it is useless in most situations... The mining vehicle could prove useful in this battlefield... I shall elaborate once I have given Karadron to think of the possibilities.

Hmmm, perhaps Lumiya will be tempted to have Savage pay them a visit? Edited October 20, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Anyway, @new guy () I'd like to point out a couple of inconsistencies with your argument.

 

1. As I explained to Karadron, the Hegemony has the advantage of a wide variety of forces, both large and small. Choke points would not favour B2s, but they would prove a massive advantage to the infantry killing power of AT-MPs, Carbonite War Droids, Predators and even Octupurras who can deal devastating amounts of firepower to small areas.

 

I don't think I need to go into detail as to why you would not want to meet one of these in a narrow ravine...

 

I must admit, I've said this a few times already, folks need to start paying attention.

 

2. The ravines prievously mentioned act as a natural defense against flanking.

 

3. The naked eye, as we all know, is limited, all it would take is for the Hegemony's forces to move outside line of sight to remain undetected, however I'd like to expand on Mannett Point in depth when I have the time.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Beniboybling

[RDeanOU]

Anyway, @new guy () I'd like to point out a couple of inconsistencies with your argument.

 

1. As I explained to Karadron, the Hegemony has the advantage of a wide variety of forces, both large and small. Choke points would not favour B2s, but they would prove a massive advantage to the infantry killing power of AT-MPs, Carbonite War Droids, Predators and even Octupurras who can deal devastating amounts of firepower to small areas.

 

I don't think I need to go into detail as to why you would not want to meet one of these in a narrow ravine...

 

I must admit, I've said this a few times already, folks need to start paying attention.

 

2. The ravines prievously mentioned act as a natural defense against flanking.

 

3. The naked eye, as we all know, is limited, all it would take is for the Hegemony's forces to move outside line of sight to remain undetected, however I'd like to expand on Mannett Point in depth when I have the time.

 

I didn't fail to pay attention. I just don't buy your argument. It seems to be an attempt to spin a huge weakness into an advantage. I don't doubt that the PH forces have firepower. I doubt their ability to move effectively and operate in that terrain without exposing themselves. You have a large force that (as you already pointed out) is built to operate in large formations. This terrain will hamper that. Moving such a large force through choke points and ravines will make them sitting ducks for GA artillery as well as hit and run assaults by the GA specops.

 

Face it, you have a larger, less mobile force that is ill suited to this terrain.

[RDeanOU]

Also, the GA would not be limited to just their naked eyes. They would undoubtedly have scouts and the ability to observe a deployment like this so close to their main base. I'm saying that, apart from anything else, someone could probably stand at a high point in Fort Garnik and say, "Hey, look over there....PH ships are dropping forces at Mannet Point. Maybe we should turn Mannet point into a crater and all those PH forces into scrap."

[Selenial]

I didn't fail to pay attention. I just don't buy your argument. It seems to be an attempt to spin a huge weakness into an advantage. I don't doubt that the PH forces have firepower. I doubt their ability to move effectively and operate in that terrain without exposing themselves. You have a large force that (as you already pointed out) is built to operate in large formations. This terrain will hamper that. Moving such a large force through choke points and ravines will make them sitting ducks for GA artillery as well as hit and run assaults by the GA specops.

 

Face it, you have a larger, less mobile force that is ill suited to this terrain.

 

Woop! Go new guy!

[Aurbere]

I would agree that Beni's strategy is a bit 'loss heavy.' Instead of putting all of his eggs in one basket, there are several alternatives that he could use. Here's something I propose.

 

1. Jammers to blind enemy sensors, make them rely on sight.

2. Use the extensive sensor arrays of the Munificents to scan the planet's surface and pinpoint the location of enemy forces.

3. Use the main force as a distraction while Storm Commandos infiltrate and sabotage GA assets, particularly those AT-TEs.

 

Essentially, the bulk of the army is just something for the GA to hit.

[RDeanOU]

I would agree that Beni's strategy is a bit 'loss heavy.' Instead of putting all of his eggs in one basket, there are several alternatives that he could use. Here's something I propose.

 

1. Jammers to blind enemy sensors, make them rely on sight.

2. Use the extensive sensor arrays of the Munificents to scan the planet's surface and pinpoint the location of enemy forces.

3. Use the main force as a distraction while Storm Commandos infiltrate and sabotage GA assets, particularly those AT-TEs.

 

Essentially, the bulk of the army is just something for the GA to hit.

 

I agree 100% that this would be a far superior strategy. I'm just not sure this is the kind of thing General Grievous would do. I think he is much more likely to rely on his superior numbers and a straight-forward attempt to overwhelm the opposition.

 

I think Grievous' strengths as a commander are logistics and big picture strategy. He had an uncanny ability to marshal large forces and move them where they needed to be in the galaxy.

 

I think he has a huge gaping weakness as a tactician. His tactics are aggressive and direct. The space battle in this Kaggath is a good example. He charges enemies head on and relies on numbers and power to achieve victory. I think his tactical choices are predictable and his over-reliance on superior numbers is a big Achilles' Heal.

[karadron]

Before we get too far away from the topic of suppliers, what would the GA receive from the Yutrane-Trackata that they can make use of here, I wonder?

 

MOOOORE TANKS!

 

MZ-8 Mobile Pulse Cannon

T1-B hovertank

T2-B repulsor tank

T3-B heavy attack tank

T4-B heavy tank

Yutrane-Trackata mining vehicle

 

The Pulse Cannon is an extremely powerful gun that even in small doses, could prove quite lethal, perhaps collapse a few choke points, or cause avalanches? The entire T-B line up are all great and work well with the specforce and their preferred tactics. Perhaps get a few T2's to act as spec forces transportation through warzones.

 

While it is useless in most situations... The mining vehicle could prove useful in this battlefield... I shall elaborate once I have given Karadron to think of the possibilities.

 

Mining vehicles can...uh...mine? Put them up high fire mining lasers mine the terrain make it difficult to traverse. Mine the cliffs make them fall on the enemy. Mine the enemy...do some damage....and...profit?

[karadron]

I would agree that Beni's strategy is a bit 'loss heavy.' Instead of putting all of his eggs in one basket, there are several alternatives that he could use. Here's something I propose.

 

1. Jammers to blind enemy sensors, make them rely on sight.

2. Use the extensive sensor arrays of the Munificents to scan the planet's surface and pinpoint the location of enemy forces.

3. Use the main force as a distraction while Storm Commandos infiltrate and sabotage GA assets, particularly those AT-TEs.

 

Essentially, the bulk of the army is just something for the GA to hit.

 

1. It would take time for the PH to acquire them. During that time the PH would just sit there and wait? If they do that allows the GA to spend time either preparing or advancing, using the terrain to their advantage.

 

2. The GAs forces are sitting on an island not much else they could learn.

 

3. And what about anyone set to defend the walkers? It's not like their going to keep them unguarded. As well the black armor isn't going to blend all that nicely into a lot of the grassy terrain. Maybe if they stick to the rocky ravines where there is very little vegetation, but among the yellowish grass and brush they'll stick out like a sore thumb.

[karadron]

Just to clear some stuff.

 

The GCW 501st has only one special unit and that is those are the Imperial Commandos, other than that, they really are just regular Stormtroopers.

 

What is this about Imperial Commandos?

[Silenceo]

What is this about Imperial Commandos?

 

 

 

Side Note: As for the mining vehicles, those uses are valid, but think sneaky. Why infiltrate the PH base at all? Just drill under it to where a bomb would have the maximum effect on parts of their structure. Not necessarily set off the volcano, but collapse parts of their base.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Silenceo

[karadron]

 

 

Side Note: As for the mining vehicles, those uses are valid, but think sneaky. Why infiltrate the PH base at all? Just drill under it to where a bomb would have the maximum effect on parts of their structure. Not necessarily set off the volcano, but collapse parts of their base.

 

:eek:

 

 

How surprisingly effective.

[Wolfninjajedi]

What is this about Imperial Commandos?

 

Just as it says, Commandos, essentially former Clone Commandos really that were comprised off former Delta, Omega and Galaar squads. Their armor changed(novel doesn't really specify details other than charcoal block/grey), but they were able to keep their DC-17 IWS. The commando unit was roughly 1,000 in strength.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Silenceo]

Any idea what the number of Imperial Commandos would be, scaled down to size?

[Beniboybling]

I agree 100% that this would be a far superior strategy. I'm just not sure this is the kind of thing General Grievous would do. I think he is much more likely to rely on his superior numbers and a straight-forward attempt to overwhelm the opposition.

 

I think Grievous' strengths as a commander are logistics and big picture strategy. He had an uncanny ability to marshal large forces and move them where they needed to be in the galaxy.

 

I think he has a huge gaping weakness as a tactician. His tactics are aggressive and direct. The space battle in this Kaggath is a good example. He charges enemies head on and relies on numbers and power to achieve victory. I think his tactical choices are predictable and his over-reliance on superior numbers is a big Achilles' Heal.

I think your forgetting about Lumiya, the basic strategy the Hegemony is going to employ here is have Grievous keep the Alliance occupied with his droid armies while Lumiya works on dismantling them from the inside.

 

And in general I feel that Lumiya covers Grievous' weaknesses.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Any idea what the number of Imperial Commandos would be, scaled down to size?

 

/Shrug

 

Take 1,000 and go from there I guess. Although they probably aren't allowed for this match as they would essentially be an elite unit and Kara already has good ones anyway.

[Beniboybling]

I didn't fail to pay attention. I just don't buy your argument. It seems to be an attempt to spin a huge weakness into an advantage. I don't doubt that the PH forces have firepower. I doubt their ability to move effectively and operate in that terrain without exposing themselves. You have a large force that (as you already pointed out) is built to operate in large formations. This terrain will hamper that. Moving such a large force through choke points and ravines will make them sitting ducks for GA artillery as well as hit and run assaults by the GA specops.

 

Face it, you have a larger, less mobile force that is ill suited to this terrain.

I still don't think your are understanding my argument.

 

From a defensive perspective, I think the Hegemony 100% as a terrain advantage. They can fill choke points with infantry killers who will do their thing. In terms of offensive, I don't dispute they are at a disadvantage, and never stated otherwise. However I reaffirm the fact that the ravines will protect them from flanking maneuvers and altogether I personally do not buy that all one needs is a bit of narrow terrain to neutralize a numbers advantage.

[Silenceo]

I still don't think your are understanding my argument.

 

From a defensive perspective, I think the Hegemony 100% as a terrain advantage. They can fill choke points with infantry killers who will do their thing. In terms of offensive, I don't dispute they are at a disadvantage, and never stated otherwise. However I reaffirm the fact that the ravines will protect them from flanking maneuvers and altogether I personally do not buy that all one needs is a bit of narrow terrain to neutralize a numbers advantage.

 

Your right... You also need enough ammo!

 

As for the choke points, I am highly skeptical that the GA would march into a PH controlled defensive position so readily. First they would likely soften it up with artillery, scout it out, or just collapse it. The part that makes me most skeptical about it, is when has Grievous actually used choke points in ground warfare? Effectively I mean...

 

What I am trying to get at, is that you seem to be imagining as if the GA marched forward like you B2's, when in fact they would likely see the ambush just due to their experience, let alone their scout reports and such, that they would likely just laugh and find a way around... Or at the very least send a man or a squad to investigate, before putting more troops through. Not to mention that the GA has already opted for an almost fully defensive strategy, meaning they wouldn't even be marching through an area that could be controlled by the PH, unless they are still racing for that staging area.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

Your right... You also need enough ammo!

 

As for the choke points, I am highly skeptical that the GA would march into a PH controlled defensive position so readily. First they would likely soften it up with artillery, scout it out, or just collapse it. The part that makes me most skeptical about it, is when has Grievous actually used choke points in ground warfare? Effectively I mean...

Well TBH I think the Alliance will get there first, and then the PH will clean house. But I'm writing up a anaylsis now and I'll make sure to cover those points. Bearing in mind collapsing it will block access for them too.

 

I expect I'm sounding like a broken record here, but Grievous is a master strategist with a ton of experience and victories to his name, I highly doubt he is incapable of performing a very basic strategic maneuver.

 

I mean, if you can provide some proof of Grievous recklessly throwing his troops into a meat grinder then sure, but I can think of no instances, TCW doesn't do very much to showcase his ground warfare capabilities, save Dathomir.

 

That said, Grievous decimates the Nightsisters in that battle, and makes good use of a defoliator.

 

P.S. I'd add to that that the ground vehicles of the CIS don't really lend themselves to that strategy.

[RDeanOU]

I still don't think your are understanding my argument.

 

From a defensive perspective, I think the Hegemony 100% as a terrain advantage. They can fill choke points with infantry killers who will do their thing. In terms of offensive, I don't dispute they are at a disadvantage, and never stated otherwise. However I reaffirm the fact that the ravines will protect them from flanking maneuvers and altogether I personally do not buy that all one needs is a bit of narrow terrain to neutralize a numbers advantage.

 

The proposed tactics that you have put forth for the PH are not defensive. You have proposed an offensive and aggressive strategy. I think this is consistent with your leadership, and I think it will put them at a huge disadvantage given the scenario and terrain.

[Silenceo]

Well TBH I think the Alliance will get there first, and then the PH will clean house. But I'm writing up a anaylsis now and I'll make sure to cover those points. Bearing in mind collapsing it will block access for them too.

 

I expect I'm sounding like a broken record here, but Grievous is a master strategist with a ton of experience and victories to his name, I highly doubt he is incapable of performing a very basic strategic maneuver.

 

I mean, if you can provide some proof of Grievous recklessly throwing his troops into a meat grinder then sure, but I can think of no instances, TCW doesn't do very much to showcase his ground warfare capabilities, save Dathomir.

 

That said, Grievous decimates the Nightsisters in that battle, and makes good use of a defoliator.

 

P.S. I'd add to that that the ground vehicles of the CIS don't really lend themselves to that strategy.

 

So your saying you think the 501st will get a great choke point...and lose it to B2's?......

 

*Looks to the side* I...

 

*Looks back* ... How do...

 

*shakes head* I disagree!!!

 

As for the enemy vehicles, do you not think they would have vehicle support of their own? Heck, collapsing it would help them anyways. It would prove one less route for the PH to reach their artillery.

[Beniboybling]

The proposed tactics that you have put forth for the PH are not defensive. You have proposed an offensive and aggressive strategy. I think this is consistent with your leadership, and I think it will put them at a huge disadvantage given the scenario and terrain.

Capturing the choke points in the center of the island to prevent the Alliance from attacking the Hegemony's base is in my mind a defensive strategy, albeit operating under the notion that the best defense is a good offense.

 

If you'd like to be specific in relation to that then fire away. But right now I don't see how your arguments apply.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Beniboybling