Beniboybling Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well, I think we should move on from the whole thing.Very well... for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Sure, but that would tailor to only a certain type of faction. For example with droids is not about using them wisely, its about overwhelming your opponent with sheer numbers. Having suppliers just adds more realism to the Kaggath I feel, expands the battlefield and adds significance to space. But....then how would a faction win, if a droid faction could just keep producing troops? That faction could then just win via attrition, would they not? The other faction wouldn't be able to get through them if they just kept coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) But....then how would a faction win, if a droid faction could just keep producing troops? That faction could then just win via attrition, would they not? The other faction wouldn't be able to get through them if they just kept coming.Attrition is a valid means of victory. Refer to other Kaggaths, lots of victories. Remember that you can't produce everything i.e. people, and that suppliers can be cut off, destroyed etc. but what it mainly comes down to its that you need more than vehicles to win. Of course with droids its a different story, but what you just said is basically what the CIS did. Edited October 17, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Attrition is a valid means of victory. Refer to other Kaggaths, lots of victories. Remember that you can't produce everything i.e. people, and that suppliers can be cut off, destroyed etc. but what it mainly comes down to its that you need more than vehicles to win. Of course with droids its a different story, but what you just said is basically what the CIS did. Right but this isn't a galaxy spanning war, none of these factions have full access to anything and so on. Sure Suppliers can be cut off, but how's that gonna happen when the space battle is over? That then just ensures the other faction with droids, could win with the enemy not getting close to touching the leaders. It's just 2 battles with the last taking on a single planet. But....meh, just think it defeats the purpose of labeling X amount of units for droid factions, if you could just make more of them. Essentially loses don't really matter in the end in terms of troop number for droids. Anyway I digress, moving on. Edited October 17, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Right but this isn't a galaxy spanning war, none of these factions have full access to anything and so on. Sure Suppliers can be cut off, but how's that gonna happen when the space battle is over? That then just ensures the other faction with droids, could win with the enemy not getting close to touching the leaders. It's just 2 battles with the last taking on a single planet. But....meh, just think it defeats the purpose of labeling X amount of units for droid factions, if you could just make more of them. Essentially loses don't really matter in the end in terms of troop number for droids. Anyway I digress, moving on.Well your talking very much conceptually when it appears to work in practice. But yes moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Alright, I'm going to steer this debate in another direction. Let's talk Intelligence networks. I'm sure we can agree that the Bothan Spynet is the superior network, but how will either of them impact the Kaggath? How will they undermine each other? What kind of impacts can they have on suppliers? Which side will be able to spy on the other more efficiently? With such prominent spy networks operating on both sides, I think their impact will be very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Alright, I'm going to steer this debate in another direction. Let's talk Intelligence networks. I'm sure we can agree that the Bothan Spynet is the superior network, but how will either of them impact the Kaggath? How will they undermine each other? What kind of impacts can they have on suppliers? Which side will be able to spy on the other more efficiently? With such prominent spy networks operating on both sides, I think their impact will be very important.Well from my perspective while the Bothan Spynet have superior intelligence, in terms of infiltration, counter-infiltration and counter-intelligence. Imperial Intelligence is superior. The Bothan's are a third party, a mere supplier of information, they neither have the ability nor the interest it protecting the Alliance from being infiltrated and even fed false information. Which is all the Hegemony is interested in. How will the Hegemony undermine the Bothan Spynet? Well you just wait and see... *cough* defection *cough* Edited October 17, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 How will the Hegemony undermine the Bothan Spynet? Well you just wait and see... *cough* defection *cough* I really do not see ANY reason at all for the Bothans to join the PH. 0. Well, I should say any believable reason really, since there are always ludicrous reasons for things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well from my perspective while the Bothan Spynet have superior intelligence, in terms of infiltration, counter-infiltration and counter-intelligence. Imperial Intelligence is superior. The Bothan's are a third party, a mere supplier of information, they neither have the ability nor the interest it protecting the Alliance from being infiltrated and even fed false information. Which is all the Hegemony is interested in. How will the Hegemony undermine the Bothan Spynet? Well you just wait and see... *cough* defection *cough* If given the proper reason, I'm sure the Bothans could be persuaded to aid the Alliance against the Hegemony. And, in my opinion, the Bothan Spynet possesses superior infiltration ability, which is what Wookieepedia heavily implies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 I really do not see ANY reason at all for the Bothans to join the PH. 0. Well, I should say any believable reason really, since there are always ludicrous reasons for things. Oh Silenceo, I afraid it is you who are mistaken. I suggest doing some research on the Bothans, I can assure you that they are quite susceptible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Oh Silenceo, I afraid it is you who are mistaken. I suggest doing some research on the Bothans, I can assure you that they are quite susceptible. Individuals, perhaps. But the entire organization? No. I know this because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHQzlb6QHwc ... /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 If given the proper reason, I'm sure the Bothans could be persuaded to aid the Alliance against the Hegemony. And, in my opinion, the Bothan Spynet possesses superior infiltration ability, which is what Wookieepedia heavily implies.But the issue with that is that they are not integrated into the Alliance's structure, and integrating them with involve allowing the Bothans to be privy to all their secrets, something the Alliance can hardly risk. I won't deny they'll be able to help in some form, but the Alliance will keep them at arms length. Imperial Intelligence however, can be trusted, and like with the Empire will be deeply embedded and so provide better protection. Perhaps, but I feel the Empire would have far more resources at its disposal. Lets say aggressive infiltration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Individuals, perhaps. But the entire organization? No. I know this because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHQzlb6QHwc ... /sarcasmYou'll see Silenceo... YOU'LL ALL SEE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 You'll see Silenceo... YOU'LL ALL SEE! Funnily enough... This reminds me of yet ANOTHER . Bah, guess it is just one of those days, curse you youtube! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Funnily enough... This reminds me of yet ANOTHER . Bah, guess it is just one of those days, curse you youtube!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUIEFp9_1nI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUIEFp9_1nI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Yes the various clans that make up the Bothan Spynetwork have allied with various factions.. Each Bothan clan operates its own portion of the overall Spynet. These clans treat eachother with suspicion and the competition can be fierce. Over the years, the various clans have allied with criminal organizations, the Empire, the Hutts and the Rebel Alliance to get a leg up on the other clans. - Taken from Rebellion Era Sourcebook So unless Karadron has a specific clan involved here, then you could very well have other clans trying to get one up over the other clans. The Bothans watch everyone and sell information to the highest bidder, they don't really have any alliance given they are all different clans, working with/against different organizations and the like. Edited October 17, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes the various clans that make up the Bothan Spynetwork have allied with various factions.. So unless Karadron has a specific clan involved here, then you could very well have other clans trying to get one up over the other clans. I'm guessing this guarantees that some Bothans would 'defect', right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) I'm guessing this guarantees that some Bothans would 'defect', right? The Bothans don't really have any alliance to soley anyone due to the different clans running their own portions, they sell information to the highest bidder and work with anyone as the quote above shows. Bothans watch everybody, selling information to the highest bidder. - Taken from SOTE Sourcebook In fact the Empire allowed this to keep tabs on the Alliance, the Bothans and other organizations. The Bothans also did provide Intel for the Empire. The Empire allows this espionage activity because it is both a participates in and benefits from the situation. Imperial Intelligence can keep track of the Rebellion, the Bothans and various criminal organizations, monitoring these various groups and activities. Although the Bothan spynet sometimes supplies the Rebellion with information, it also furnishes intelligence for the Empire. - Taken from same So...yes, a clan could 'defect' if you will. Edited October 17, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 So here's a couple of opening points. Now that I'm relatively free I should have more time to get some points out. A little on Leadership The leadership of the GA revolves around cooperation between what were at one time enemies due to the leadership of Pellaeon—the main proponent of peace between the Empire and New Republic. The work he did was furthered by people like bel Iblis during the Vong War. Pellaeon also has a very good relationship with the Jedi Order—compound that with the Rebel love of Jedi and that helps to unify the faction. Tholme is a mastermind of complex plans, a master infiltrator, and worker of intelligence—add to that the fact that he is an unknown to the enemy and his potential for damage goes off the charts. Jaina is the daughter of two rebel heroes, a Jedi, and the wife of Jagged Fel—the man who eventually was proclaimed emperor. If anyone embodies this spirit of cooperation it’s her. A little on terrain One of the most important factors in any battle is the terrain. The battlefield for the Kaggath is on an island. The two bases a volcano for the PH and Fort Garnik, which is the islands leading spaceport, for the GA. They are in fairly close proximity to each other, but are separated by a winding path made up of narrow pathways, beaches, and a rocky plain. Other points of interests are several other small towns and Mannett Point. By all appearances this will make any large scale action all but impossible, but if a faction does pursue such an action they will have to overcome the terrain to do so. The GA will have a much better grasp on the terrain because of Pathfinders and Wilderness Fighters. Compound that with a force that can operate either as a traditional army or equally as well in small groups and the terrain advantage swings in favor of the GA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just wanted to point out real quick while I have a small break in the Scenario crafting *for Survival game* that neither side appear to have much of a "money advantage". Since individuals do not keep their personal fortunes, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Edit: Wait nvrm. Edited October 17, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just wanted to point out real quick while I have a small break in the Scenario crafting *for Survival game* that neither side appear to have much of a "money advantage". Since individuals do not keep their personal fortunes, correct? That is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Edit: Wait nvrm. Sil, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Sil, I think. Ya I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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