Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[andrewjf]

Don't turn this game into wow, please don't. We don't need dual spec because it just takes away from the roll-playing story immersion that swtor uses.

[Sendrel]

In the end my opinion is worthless because I am one of those who does not have any problems doing every quest, everything with a healer spec. Been doing so since ages, but more-so in WoW. It also does not kill my fun because I don't feel married to big numbers and neither I am in a hurry. In my opinion patience and survivability outweighs the need for speed.

 

You could be describing me as well. I'm leveling 3 characters at this point because I just can't pin down the one I like best. I've filled up my allotted character slots on one server because I intend to have one of every AC. None of my current characters are out of their 20's yet. In short, I'm putzing. And I'm enjoying the pace I'm setting.

 

I favor dual spec (or multi-specing) because it varies the playstyle from day to day. It allows options and increases replayability considerably. And it doesn't impact any other playstyle at all.

[Jethillex]

Don't turn this game into wow, please don't. We don't need dual spec because it just takes away from the roll-playing story immersion that swtor uses.

 

Since when did the dialog choices you can make depend on your spec?

 

I suppose spamming LFM Healer for 45 minutes to an hour is more immerse though.

[Airinya]

It allows options and increases replayability considerably.

 

I'm sorry, can you please clarify how dual spec increases replayability?

[Deffin]

Since when did the dialog choices you can make depend on your spec?

 

I suppose spamming LFM Healer for 45 minutes to an hour is more immerse though.

 

It forces you to go out and try to find people. Are you some type of loner?

 

 

Also I play on a server that is nearly full 24/7. I wait 30 minutes for a queue. I have NO problem getting a group for a quest within 5-10 minutes. Oh and while I wait and not spam General. (I do it once every few minutes). I do other quest.

 

WHAT DOING OTHER THINGS!?!??! THE HORROR!

 

Do another quest and waiting for people? WHAT IS THIS????

[Gleneagle]

Yes you seem to be the final say on whether someone's argument against yours is valid. You contradict yourself more and more each post. If you can't see the valid arguments made by Niacin (or whatever his name is on the previous page) then it shows you're just blind to your own side. It's fine that you feel the way you do, but don't say that everyone's argument is valid and then continue to berrate everyone else who has an opinion that differs from yours.

 

Dual (not duel by the way) spec:

 

Reduces in game immersion. It's a ROLE playing game. Whether you choose to actual RP or not (I don't) isn't the point. When you are creating and developing a character you are choosing to fulfill a certain ROLE.

 

You have eight character slots, use them.

 

If you're a guild leader and you're having a hard time filling out the proper roles in your raid then you're obviously not doing an adequate job of recruiting the right classes.

 

Actually Western Civilization has been built in part around the principles of Logic and Rhetoric: You have been outclassed by someone actually educated.

 

Back to the subject: seems to me a simple thing to put just enough points into healing to do the job and the rest into survival/dps skill tree categories.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Gleneagle

[pauledangerously]

I'm on board with this. And a group finder while we're at it.

 

This^^^^^^^^^^^

[Thiussat]

My last MMO was Rift, and it spoiled me in this regard. There you can have up to 5 different specs. Each role slot costs a lot of money but once you unlock it, you have it permanently and can change specs on the fly.

 

This type of thing is needed since PvP specs will often be very different from a PvE/leveling spec. Are we supposed to respec each time we want to do a warzone? C'mon.

[Sendrel]

I'm sorry, can you please clarify how dual spec increases replayability?

 

Poor word choice. By replayability I meant player retention. When you're able to experiment with different specs within an AC, I think it holds your interest longer.

[Deffin]

My last MMO was Rift, and it spoiled me in this regard. There you can have up to 5 different specs. Each role slot costs a lot of money but once you unlock it, you have it permanently and can change specs on the fly.

 

This type of thing is needed since PvP specs will often be very different from a PvE/leveling spec. Are we supposed to respec each time we want to do a warzone? C'mon.

 

You "want" to do a warzone. Keyword there. "Want" If you want to do a warzone you should go respec. You don't NEED a pvp spec. You just "want" one.

[Wazooty]

I havent had problems finding a group to anything even once, why introduce this communtiy destructive tool?

 

Don't ever implement this, plz. tyvm

 

Yup, your sole personal experience means no one else is having issues.

 

I haven't found a group in 10 levels because everything is a dead zone.

[Airinya]

Actually Western Civilization has been built in part around the principles of Logic and Rhetoric: You have been outclassed by someone actually educated.

 

Back to the subject: seems to me a simple thing to put just enough points into healing to do the job and the rest into survival/dps skill tree categories.

 

Cute, I'll match wits and education with you anytime. As my post pointed out his arguments lacked logic as he contradicted himself the more he posted.

[Deffin]

Poor word choice. By replayability I meant player retention. When you're able to experiment with different specs within an AC, I think it holds your interest longer.

 

I can do that. It's called GOING TO MY CLASS TRAINER AND RESPECING!

 

*Dies from madness overload*.

[Wazooty]

You "want" to do a warzone. Keyword there. "Want" If you want to do a warzone you should go respec. You don't NEED a pvp spec. You just "want" one.

 

 

Its a friggin game, were here to have fun. You only WANT to play a game, you dont need to play it.

 

People seem to forget that we play this game to HAVE FUN.

[Xzulld]

I am only going to respond to the non-hyperbolic parts of your post.

 

 

Reduces in game immersion. It's a ROLE playing game. Whether you choose to actual RP or not (I don't) isn't the point. When you are creating and developing a character you are choosing to fulfill a certain ROLE.

So it increases Immersion to allow respecs at a cost? How often can it occur before the immersiveness is ruined? What exactly is the realistic relationship between respecing at a cost vs respecing without a cost vs dual specing?]

 

 

You have eight character slots, use them.

 

If you're a guild leader and you're having a hard time filling out the proper roles in your raid then you're obviously not doing an adequate job of recruiting the right classes.

I do, I tend to level 3-5 max level toons in games like this.

 

To your second point, its not about me, its about the people in my guild who want to be viable from one boss fight to the next and not get sat out just so we can down the next boss. Its about QOL for the process of putting together a good mix and not sitting poeple out, options are a good thing in theses kinds of games.

 

The entire nature of an MMO is to tweak your character to move through content, gear, talents, which abilities are used and in what order.

 

My argument is that respecing your character is just as foundational to this type of game as is changing out gear and that dual spec, or free respec only increases the ability of the player to engage in this game at all levels of play.

 

So far NO one has come up with an objective refutation to this conclusion. Nothing wrong with subjective, it just doesn't touch the validity of my argument.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Xzulld

[Deffin]

Yup, your sole personal experience means no one else is having issues.

 

I haven't found a group in 10 levels because everything is a dead zone.

 

Why is it my problem that you rolled on a dead server?

[Sendrel]

You "want" to do a warzone. Keyword there. "Want"

 

Well... yeah.

 

I thought we'd moved beyond the semantics portion of the conversation.

[Airinya]

To your second point, its not about me, its about the people in my guild who want to be viable from one boss fight to the next and not get sat out just so we can down the next boss. Its about QOL for the process of putting together a good mix and not sitting poeple out, options are a good thing in theses kinds of games.

 

The entire nature of an MMO is to tweak your character to move through content, gear, talents, which abilities are used and in what order.

 

My argument is that respecing your character is just as foundational to this type of game as is changing out gear and that dual spec, or free respec only increases the ability of the player to engage in this game at all levels of play.

 

So far NO one has come up with an objective refutation to this conclusion. Nothing wrong with subjective, it just doesn't touch the validity of my argument.

 

First, respec costs, particularly scaling ones, will minimize people swapping roles (hence increasing in-game immersion).

 

Your assumption is that you will need to be able to constantly swap out raid members in order to ensure that your raid will be able to down bosses. Please provide ANY SHRED of evidence that this will be the case in SWTOR.

 

Second your assumption about the "nature of an MMO" is just that - an assumption. WoW and Rift has been the only MMOs that have allowed for this type of on the fly role switching.

 

As far as your last point, the fact that "NO one has come up with and ojbect or refutation to this conclusion," that is again you judging the validity of other people's arguments and, quite frankly, your judgement/opinion doesn't mean anying.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Airinya

[Sendrel]

I can do that. It's called GOING TO MY CLASS TRAINER AND RESPECING!

 

*Dies from madness overload*.

 

So the tediousness of going back to the trainer every time you want to respec doesn't bother you? Different strokes I guess.

 

Thanks though for agreeing that dual spec is no different in theory than what we have now. Since its so similar, I'd assume you won't mind when they implement it?

[zandadoum]

This game probably isn't for you if this is a huge problem. Find a group. I don't have this problem with the healers in my guild regardless if they're grouped or solo.

 

BTW, as a secret, healers are usually the first person to get grouped so finding one shouldn't be a problem for you.

 

i am on a low populated server. i have been on every single planet after lvl 34 ALONE

i had to skip all planets heroics for lack of partners

 

i have tried to do flashpoints with others, we have had to wait until we got a healer up to 3 hours (doing other stuff meanwhile ofc). the fact the LFG system is utter crap was ofc part of the problem

 

i have tried playing as healer myself and had to respecc because it took ages to kill a group of mobs while leveling up. even with epic geared dps or tanking companion.

 

 

so, if YOU don't understand the need of a dual specc option, that's YOUR problem. don't like it? don't use it. but don't talk against it because you have obviously no idea about WHY we're asking for it in first place.

 

not everyone is in a 30ppl. guild on a full server, you know.

[Xzulld]

First, respec costs, particularly scaling ones, will minimize people swapping roles (hence increasing in-game immersion).

 

Your assumption is that you will need to be able to constantly swap out raid members in order to ensure that your raid will be able to down bosses. Please provide ANY SHRED of evidence that this will be the case in SWTOR.

 

Second your assumption about the "nature of an MMO" is just that - an assumption. WoW and Rift has been the only MMOs that have allowed for this type of on the fly role switching.

 

As far as your last point, the fact that "NO one has come up with and ojbect or refutation to this conclusion," that is again you judging the validity of other people's arguments and, quite frankly, your judgement/opinion doesn't mean anying.

 

It has already been stated by devs that encounters in SWTOR are not going to follow the standard format of a single boss tank and spank on every encounter. They actively want to create encounters that will be varied. It is this variation that creates the dynamic of needing a certain quantity of a given role/spec. That is why it is foundational, becuase for a game like this to create variable content it must make changes which setup an encounter to favor certain group dispositions. I made this clear in my original argument, I can see you are having trouble following this basic concept.

 

Any time a single operation has 1 boss that needs 1 tank, and another that needs more than 1 tank you are already running into an example of what I am referring. Do you really think there will not be these kinds of operations?

[Jethillex]

It forces you to go out and try to find people. Are you some type of loner?

 

 

Also I play on a server that is nearly full 24/7. I wait 30 minutes for a queue. I have NO problem getting a group for a quest within 5-10 minutes. Oh and while I wait and not spam General. (I do it once every few minutes). I do other quest.

 

WHAT DOING OTHER THINGS!?!??! THE HORROR!

 

Do another quest and waiting for people? WHAT IS THIS????

 

Very rarely will I see a group forming for a flashpoint on a planet, it happens in the fleet. It's also kind of hard to quest on a planet while looking for a healer or tank for a flashpoint groups form for those in a different location.

[Airinya]

It has already been stated by devs that encounters in SWTOR are not going to follow the standard format of a single boss tank and spank on every encounter. They actively want to create encounters that will be varied. It is this variation that creates the dynamic of needing a certain quantity of a given role/spec. That is why it is foundational, becuase for a game like this to create variable content it must make changes which setup an encounter to favor certain group dispositions. I made this clear in my original argument, I can see you are having trouble following this basic concept.

 

Any time a single operation has 1 boss that needs 1 tank, and another that needs more than 1 tank you are already running into an example of what I am referring. Do you really think there will not be these kinds of operations?

 

Again, please show me anywhere that a MOD or SWTOR rep has stated that you will need to be able to actively switch out members of your raid party, or alternatively have dual spec, in order to fill given roles for different bosses within a single raid.

[Xzulld]

Again, please show me anywhere that a MOD or SWTOR rep has stated that you will need to be able to actively switch out members of your raid party, or alternatively have dual spec, in order to fill given roles for different bosses within a single raid.

 

It follows logically. It has been done in every AAA mmo ever. Its ok bud if you want to stick your head in the sand.

[Nanfoodle]

I want more then dual spec. I want quad spec. 1 spec for PvE healing, 2 for PvP healing, 3 for PvE DPS 4th for PvP DPS spec. I have way outgrown just having 2 specs. Get with modern times BW.