Bioware: Is Crafting to Win™ intended?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Too many pages to read.

 

Anyway crafting for conquest seems fine to me. What do you really get out of it other than your guild name in lights ( that are gotten within a few hours of said conquest event ending ) and a rather crappy small weekly reward?

 

There is of course a downside to trying to get on top via crafting too and that's the huge money sink needed to buy up materials or the lost income using already gathered ones on war supplies.

 

Personally of bigger issue to me are guilds I hear ruining gsf matches to quickly build up participation points or colluding on preformed wz's for the same purpose. In fact there have been many dubious ways guilds have exploited systems to get points ( most talked about in depth, some even fixed ) yet crafting is at least a legit way of amassing points with a consequence as noted above.

 

Personally I'm happy to do my 35k via crafting for my guild and then put crew skill resources back to making myself credits.

The upsides of many guilds so eager to build up mass conquest points via crafting is more demand / less supply for materials and thus better prices for materials I gather and also less competition in the crafting market for items I craft and sell ( as many people are wasting time on war supplies ) which rewards me better prices and faster sales ( and surprisingly most profit margins have increased more than what they were before even with the increased material cost ).

 

I've never really found it as easy as it is now to make so much credits, I managed to fill up about 8 bays with cartel market hypercrate items the other day out of boredom of what to do with all these credits ( sort of regret it now as now I've got the tedious task of selling most of it ). I've probably casually made around 100M since GSH launch just on my 2 toons, hate to think what people with a full toon count solely trying to make credits are earning. Anyone hit 1 billion yet?

 

So I'm all for keeping it as it is because I really don't care about rankings that much as they don't mean anything. If guilds want to continue to go that hard out and make my credit making that much easier then I'm all for it.

 

I agree there are many better ways that conquest points could be done to make them more meaningful but before punishing crafting in any way I think all the expoitable methods need to be tightened up ( especially gsf and wz's ). Personally though I think it's not going to happen too much against crafting because this is the big money sink that BW seemingly wanted anyway ... now for some more gambling opportunities to waste even more credits on.

[CrownofGold]

I strongly believe that Crafting is INTENDED to be the strongest route towards winning for one purpose ONLY: with the coming expansion, all of our current mats will no longer matter so instead of allowing the player base to be stuck with all of these useless mats they have given us a fun way to use them up leading into 3.0.

 

I imagine the focus changing to something else later on.

 

And yeah, my guild has been top 10 on PoT5 every week since Conquest came out. However, I am curious as to WHY Bioware is trying to fake that the competition is Cross Server? I am on Prophecy of the Five and the system thinks that we are on the L I B R A R Y OF O S S U S server competing against guilds on the F A T M A N SERVER AND OTHER "made up" ones.

 

 

What gives?

[bdatt]

I didn't read all of this, but looking at your math if they added a unique mechanic where crafting progress on war supplies only counts when one is logged in and further cut the points given by 1/5. This effectively cuts down crafting by 15x (1/5 for raw points and ~33% assuming someone hardcore plays 8 hrs a day). Would bring it down to ~9k similar to the other activities in the example you noted.

 

Apologies if someone already suggested this. Looking at your 42 million though shows something is unbalanced.

Edited September 30, 2014 by bdatt

[bdatt]

I strongly believe that Crafting is INTENDED to be the strongest route towards winning for one purpose ONLY: with the coming expansion, all of our current mats will no longer matter so instead of allowing the player base to be stuck with all of these useless mats they have given us a fun way to use them up leading into 3.0.

 

I imagine the focus changing to something else later on.

 

And yeah, my guild has been top 10 on PoT5 every week since Conquest came out. However, I am curious as to WHY Bioware is trying to fake that the competition is Cross Server? I am on Prophecy of the Five and the system thinks that we are on the L I B R A R Y OF O S S U S server competing against guilds on the F A T M A N SERVER AND OTHER "made up" ones.

 

 

What gives?

 

Those are legacy servers pre-merger that must still exist behind the scenes. And mats will always be relevant. I only craft armorings when I make alts and could for other professions too. They did add usefulness to the alien data cubes, rakata things, etc. that hadn't been used since the days of columi gear.

Edited September 30, 2014 by bdatt

[JINeziz]

Except they're not two separate issues when one specifically mitigates the other.

 

 

 

Actually they are two separate issues. Especially since fixing one of them won't fix the other. At least not completely. They are indeed separate because one can be fixed without overhauling the conquest system. Namely, BALANCING CRAFTING.

 

Just because 2 issues are related doesn't mean they are the same. EXP: If i need to get to the gym to workout (health being the issue), but my car stops working (transportation to the gym), is that really the SAME issue just because they're related? No. They do however effect eachother. Still, one problem ya can get around without really adressing the other.

 

Know the difference.

[JINeziz]

Too many pages to read.

 

 

Which is why everything you've said has already bn stated and addressed. Particularly how the prizes and rewards are irrelevant. Its the competition itself that many enjoy. Coordinating entire guilds to focus on goal against another guild going after the same thing. People who dont really care about or enjoy conquest really dnt hv anything to add to his discussion about Balancing Crafting points in conquest. Since it is a method that by any1's math, especially on the first page of thread, is far more overpowering pve or pvp combined.

 

Also, pvp and pve have both been severely nerfed and that was smthing that happened weeks ago. Crafting, however, hasnt even been touched. Which is the issue. Doubt any1 enjoys crafting more than or as much as pvp or pve. Balancing it would make more room for focus on gameplay for all and increase overall for for those of us who r interested in the event.

[JINeziz]

It was a dark and stormy night in the produce section...the carrots shivered in fear in their spot next to the rutabegas as they knew the morning would bring a terrible slicing. The celery was crying softly in their beds waiting for their turn at the knife.......

 

I think we have a winner here!!! Im off to finish the great american shopping novel!!!

 

LOL^. I love it. Tell me more, tell me more. thx for bringing humor back to this thread.

[CaptRogue]

this post is so full of stupid, le sigh.

 

1. without a doubt having to craft to win is undesirable, yes, as you mentioned you can do without it, if you want to lose.

2. not liking something doesn't mean you don't do it, that mentality is for children and imbeciles, many people don't like going to work, but they do because of the benefits of doing so. We very much disliked having to craft in order to win, but we did it because of the benefit of winning.

3. the question for bioware is not "is crafting a bug", rather "seeing as crafting is the only way to win against another focused guild, is your intention for it to be the only way to solidify victory"

 

Your post is so full of stupid, le sigh.

I already stated my pub guild has been number 1 since conquest & not yet have we had to craft to win. And there is some strong competition. So next ignorant statement.

 

BUT I think I will talk my small Imperial guild into crafting to win! That way we can place in the top!

 

BTW why are you complaining, you freaking won the dang planet?! I could understand if you were WOOK on here upset bc you spent all those creds & still lost. lolz

[JINeziz]

 

Feels like a big part of what the OP really had a problem with was the amount of crafting conquest points needed to beat a competitive guild rather than just coast to an easy win.

 

Although it's not like the mega guilds will ever regularly directly compete often at all, there's no smart percentage in doing so.

 

Wrong on both counts. Have you even seen what other planets Triumph has conquered and what they had to do to win them. Did you know that they specifically chose that planet for the competition and couldve dodged their top rival instead? And I'm sure you didnt know that they could do it again week after week...

 

Secondly, Base Raiding against imps/imp guilds, fighting over commanders in open-world pvp with against both pub/imps coalitions IS a regular occurrence in conquest each week. Some guids even hv the reputation for "stealing" Commanders.

 

And if they wanted the easy route, they wouldnt be heavily involved in pvp. Trying pvping ur way to victory on pub side with a bunch of pve morons jumping in evry match and goin afk. nt to mention the imps on server having a high number of skill pvpers. Its not about ez, we all want competition. We just want to hv more fun doin it in actual gameplay. Nt sending out companions to win conquest for us. Adapting to a planets bonus is a huge part of the competition. Esepecially whn it doesnt play to ur guilds strengths.

 

I'd be fine with each toon being able to craft only enough points to reach conquest goal for the week. which varies.

Edited September 30, 2014 by JINeziz

[Failtima]

Which is why everything you've said has already bn stated and addressed. Particularly how the prizes and rewards are irrelevant. Its the competition itself that many enjoy. Coordinating entire guilds to focus on goal against another guild going after the same thing. People who dont really care about or enjoy conquest really dnt hv anything to add to his discussion about Balancing Crafting points in conquest. Since it is a method that by any1's math, especially on the first page of thread, is far more overpowering pve or pvp combined.

 

Also, pvp and pve have both been severely nerfed and that was smthing that happened weeks ago. Crafting, however, hasnt even been touched. Which is the issue. Doubt any1 enjoys crafting more than or as much as pvp or pve. Balancing it would make more room for focus on gameplay for all and increase overall for for those of us who r interested in the event.

 

But you know, it really isn't the competition that matters to most...not all...of the mega guilds. If it was then you'd be seeing them go directly against each other week after week, but you don't. the ones that do are the exception to the rule. So far it's been the exception and not the rule when the mega guilds face each other in a real challenging competition in a week. Usually, so far with very few exceptions across the various servers, they're each on different worlds, each facing weak competition that can't possibly beat them for the number one spot.

 

There's nothing wrong with maximizing ones chances to win, but don't pretend it's about the challenge of the competition and the thrill of battling it out for victory when most weeks real challenging competition was deliberately avoided.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Failtima

[JINeziz]

Y

BTW why are you complaining, you freaking won the dang planet?! I could understand if you were WOOK on here upset bc you spent all those creds & still lost. lolz

 

Can you not read the opening post? Where is the complaint about winning? No where is that even remotely mentioned to be the issue. Its clear that the competition was greatly enjoyed by spectators and participants alike.

 

Do you enjoy crafting more than actual gameplay? Do you like the fact that crafting hasnt been at all balanced or modified like pvp and pve conquest objectives hv bn? Do you think this is imbalance was/is intended by BW? THOSE are the issues. Not about how hard it was to win. thats actually fun. Triumph has has to work hard to win b4 and if they wanted an ez victory pvp wouldnt be such a large part of what they do.

 

Focus on the topic or stop posting. Put yourself in there shoes versus a guild that crafts hvy. How would u win by not crafting? Whats your master plan? And would u ENJOY it? This is about the desire for conquest to be more gameply, strategy, and skill focused. And less about resources, companions, and materials. Why do u hv a problem with that?

[JINeziz]

But you know, it really isn't the competition that matters to most...not all...of the mega guilds.

There's nothing wrong with maximizing ones chances to win, but don't pretend it's about the challenge of the competition and the thrill of battling it out for victory when most weeks real challenging competition was deliberately avoided.

 

I didnt say it was for all. I said it was for many. And as stated b4, people who DONT wanna enjoy competion stay out of pvp, (excpt for the moronic pve comms farmers) which is one of the centerpeices of conquest for Triumph. Theres nothing "pretend" about that. AND even when guilds arent fighting on the same planet doesnt mean they arent competiing with one another. Especially since open-world pvp has bn one of the most FUN aspects of conquest and happens all the time each week with mega guilds. Therein, they compete over a resource instead of a planet. "Thrill of battling it out for victory" is always fun. Just less so wn its a crafting battle. And sm guilds will always dodged competition, nothing can be done about that. Thats more of a pve-mindset tho. Scripted, predictable fights instead of challening, random real people.

 

I'm guessing you r a pve person. Balancing crafting would allow opportunities/incentives for direct head-to-head battles. Period.

[Failtima]

Gonna kinda go out on a limb and say the OP might have something to do with a certain guild spending somewhere around 500 mill credits to win a conquest in one week.

 

Why is crafting the way it is, conquest wise? A credit sink, no more, no less. And as a credit sink it's probably not only working as intended, but working even better than was initially intended. And a guild spending that many credits to win over the course of a single week? Yeah, proof that it's a credit sink that's been very very effective.

[magicallypuzzled]

am i completely wrong that this week crafting wasn't repeatable? i didn't really craft at all this week except right at the end where i crafted 5 quick war supplies to try and put just a bit of separation between a rival guild i was surprised when i longed back into find i only got 2k points for what should of been 5k worth of crafting.

 

maybe i missed them lowering the points crafting gives you but it's strange becuase i checked that speciffically before i crafted those few supplies.

Edited September 30, 2014 by magicallypuzzled

[Barcstradamus]

Honestly, is this any worse than last week when guilds ran the 16m group finder operation and then stopped before the last boss so they can split in 16 separate groups to farm one boss for huge points? Is that "playing the game"? People will find a way to get points however they want. Many of the guilds that crafted a lot this week hoarded mats for several weeks before doing it, so it won't be as big of a factor in weeks to come. Edited September 30, 2014 by Barcstradamus

[aeterno]

Actually they are two separate issues. Especially since fixing one of them won't fix the other. At least not completely. They are indeed separate because one can be fixed without overhauling the conquest system. Namely, BALANCING CRAFTING.

 

Just because 2 issues are related doesn't mean they are the same. EXP: If i need to get to the gym to workout (health being the issue), but my car stops working (transportation to the gym), is that really the SAME issue just because they're related? No. They do however effect eachother. Still, one problem ya can get around without really adressing the other.

 

Know the difference.

 

I never said they were the same problem, what I said was they're in such a correlation that if one mitigates one, it will make the other worse.

 

Know the meaning.

 

So far the scope of counterargument has been whatever the heck your post is + and what basically boils down to "we don't know or care about the other issue that's for BW to somehow figure out". Well they did. They left repeatable crafting whereby one or two dedicated individuals per smaller guild can make up the numbers allowing said guild to compete with larger guilds for top 10. You're not talking about skipping a gym session to get your car fixed, you're talking about switching to an all fast food diet to be able to afford fixing it. Which, you know, deteriorates your "health issue".

Edited September 30, 2014 by aeterno

[ParagonAX]

Honestly, is this any worse than last week when guilds ran the 16m group finder operation and then stopped before the last boss so they can split in 16 separate groups to farm one boss for huge points? Is that "playing the game"? People will find a way to get points however they want. Many of the guilds that crafted a lot this week hoarded mats for several weeks before doing it, so it won't be as big of a factor in weeks to come.

 

Yes. There is a difference. Do the maths and get back to me. I already have and I will tell you - exploiting 16m operations on multiple alts still does not give nearly as many points as crafting.

 

Nothing - no amount of wz, fp, operations, gsf - comes remotely close to the amount of points crafting puts up.

 

Herein lies the problem. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Edited September 30, 2014 by ParagonAX

[JouerTue]

the difference is big, but the cost is relevant so it's a guild's choice..hitting the top 10 helps you upgrading the ship and you can always collect the achievments once the most powerful guilds will have had all the planets once and eventually loose interest in conquest. my two cents..

[Vegihan]

So far the scope of counterargument has been whatever the heck your post is + and what basically boils down to "we don't know or care about the other issue that's for BW to somehow figure out". Well they did. They left repeatable crafting whereby one or two dedicated individuals per smaller guild can make up the numbers allowing said guild to compete with larger guilds for top 10. You're not talking about skipping a gym session to get your car fixed, you're talking about switching to an all fast food diet to be able to afford fixing it. Which, you know, deteriorates your "health issue".

 

Lets be fair. The trick to flashpoints was available well before they fixed it. It had been there from week one but there was not big reward to do it so it wasn't being used heavily. Once the flashpoint week came, that is when they saw the issue. I believe this week has help show the issue with crafting. I would hope bioware would look at this and see the issue as some in the community see it. If not and they keep it the way it is, expect for big guilds to store up mats and stay on top. Even if a small guild can stay close, if the leader has the numbers and the mats they can stay ahead.

 

As a member of one of the other major Shadowlands guilds, we have also had to fight it out several weeks as well and instead of turning to running content, we had to turn to crafting. I saw conquest as a way to get people back into the game. How does crafting do that? Running flashpoints, warzones, galactic star fighter, and operations gets people back into the game.

 

I have no problem with crafting being the best way to get conquest points on the weeks when it is the focus. I have a problem on weeks like this week were flashpoints were suppose to be the focus and yet crafting was the quicker way to reach your goal. Why have different weeks if the best bang for your time is the same each week. And if you want to talk about mats, I have a guildmate who gets his conquest done on 11 toons on Tuesday and spends less then 2 days recovering the mats. They aren't that hard to get.

[Ruskaeth]

This thread proves people are not bothered by how crafting is currently part of Conquest system. Just a ton of messages back and forth from few active individuals pickering. In reality, people like current Conquest Crafting and it should be left as it is. Edited September 30, 2014 by Ruskaeth

[Kulyok]

No, it shouldn't stay this way. My entire guild is talking about how the current "no-limits" crafting hurts the entire conquest system, so the guilds with deeper pockets/bots win - they're just not visiting this forum, since they're Russians, so they prefer to converse in the guild forum using our first language.

 

But seriously, this is ridiculous. I saw a guy who crafted 400k, and 350more k on two of his alts, over a milion in total. I'm rich myself, but I'm not that rich - it's either hundreds of dollars in cartel coins, or bots. And even if not - with 100% stronghold bonus and three hours online each day running flashpoints/waiting for the queue, I only got 70k. On a flashpoint week. Seriously?

 

Crafting is overpowered, and it's pay to win at its most clear form. I think it should be nerfed.

[Ruskaeth]

it's either hundreds of dollars in cartel coins, or bots.

Blatant lie.

 

Crafting is overpowered, and it's pay to win at its most clear form.

A huge lie. I know a lot of people who can make 10 x more points than what you described yourself being capable of. Pst. They have not used cartel coins to acquire their wealth or materials. These accusations just stink of "I lost buhuhu".

 

On TRE, one Russian guild, after having their bottoms handed to them with a deep-space-nine level wedgie, decided that the right course of action is to write tickets about winning guild cheating. What did you say winning against your guild was called, botting? Are you on TRE by chance? Blaming people of botting or using cartel coins (allowed) and basing that on your inability to do more points is priceless.

 

zergs have no shame.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Ruskaeth

[Kulyok]

Blatant lie.

 

That's a personal attack, while I've done nothing to you. And you're insulting Russians, which are my nation. You want to get reported, keep it up, but I'd rather not see racism and nationalism on the official forums.

 

I've just been on vacation, playing basically 10-12 hours a day. Well, decorating my barbie houses, mostly - I don't do conquest points beyond the daily flashpoints(which, like I wrote, don't compare to crafting on the effort/time ratio). And you know what? While playing 10 hours a day, I kept sending my companions on grade 2/grade 3 missions for materials, full bonuses, the best missions, and I still barely filled half of one bay. In two weeks.

 

Okay, I also craft and sell, so let's make it one bay. But it's certainly not enough to make a million points. You got to spend the stacks, or buy, or bot(I dearly hope no one does, frankly, but I know that's way too optimistic). Or forfeit sleep.

 

I understand that you're in favor of using "allowed" cartel coins to spend money to buy the victory? Well, I'm not. I have eighteen alts in various guilds, and I like the spirit of competition, the spirit of cooperation. I like when people get the chance by not opening their wallets. And currently, alas, it's untrue.

 

Hence, I want a cap on crafting. And you know what? I think it'll get implemented.

[FalmeseReb]

lmao that is insane. you are literally crazy for spending that many credits on mats.

[JINeziz]

I never said they were the same problem, what I said was they're in such a correlation that if one mitigates one, it will make the other worse.

 

Know the meaning.

 

So far the scope of counterargument has been whatever the heck your post is + and what basically boils down to "we don't know or care about the other issue that's for BW to somehow figure out". Well they did. They left repeatable crafting whereby one or two dedicated individuals per smaller guild can make up the numbers allowing said guild to compete with larger guilds for top 10. You're not talking about skipping a gym session to get your car fixed, you're talking about switching to an all fast food diet to be able to afford fixing it. Which, you know, deteriorates your "health issue".

 

You said they werent two separate issues. You were wrong then and you're wong now. Especially thinking that small guilds can compete with big ones on crafting. They really cant unless the larger guild is lax about crafting or negates it entirely. Small guilds will never be able to compete with the bigger ones if they pursue the same objectives with equal dedication. Balancing crafting would allow guilds of every size to spend more of their valuable time focusing on gameply. Nstead of mats, creds, sending companions to do all the work.

 

Also, who said anything about skipping a gym session?? Narrow minded thinking on a hypothetical situation, how pathetic... Especially since money was never said to be an issue. Every heard of a bus? Or jogging for that matter?

 

Its called BALANCE. By taking an alternate route. The only solution thats bn asked for this whole time is for it to be balanced while not threatening the means people use to quickly attain personal conquest goals. A possible cap of 35-50k per toon would suffice. Then we could get back to focusing on gameplay.

Edited September 30, 2014 by JINeziz