Legacy datacrons

[Torvai]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's ALL ABOUT THE STATS.

Of course it is

Yet there are things like the companion affection bonus that is legacy wide once it's done.

If Datacrons had no stats and just some Codex entries nobody would care. The fact that they do, and insignificant they may be, is the only reason these posts get made.

At least on my part, you are correct on this.

People try and blow them off (stat bonuses) as being insignificant, well, if they are then why do you want them so badly? The fact is that the stat bonuses *are* signficant and *are* meaningful and so going out and making a small amount of effort to get them is a fair deal.

You know, I'm a raider. And in NiM content, every little bit that gives you more dps, healing or lets you take more damage(in my case, since I'm a tank^^) can make a difference. Same for rated pvp. In all other cases they're nice to have, at most.

When it's all said and done you've got approximately an extra (free) +50 to every stat for doing nothing more than walking around and picking up glowing boxes each time you level a new character.

Basically you are right again. But I just don't get why this isn't done, or even considered. Maybe Ratajack can provide me with the link? I seemed to have missed it

Things like that are done throughout the gaming industry. Give people the choice to either "grind and save money" or "pay and save time". Heck, it has been done even in swtor. Look at HK. You have to grind him once, and on other toons you get the choice to not get him at all, do it again or just pay for it and be done. It's not that it is p2w, since you can get them anyway. It's rather a pay to save time that is then actually spent playing and not jumping around. Or standing like dumb on this damned baloon for 45 mins, where you can't even go afk.

And yet again, there are stat boni you can get for all characters, totaling to 1% of crit, surge and accuracy, more healing reveived and a tad more hp by maxing out affection(yeah, you probably all know this ). And you CAN ACTUALLY BUY them in the form of companion gifts. Nobodys complaining about this eiither.

I still don't know why these discussions even happen. They've said they aren't doing it and there's no plans to do it other than the Codex entries. They've printed it (Ratajack posts the link all the time) and they've personally said it to my face at a Cantina stop. It's going nowhere and all these do is make people mad at each other and are a complete waste of time since they're never doing it.

I don't get mad at others for having a different opinion about something, as long as its reasoned and not just "cause, potatoes". And at most it's a waste of my work time, so who cares

What I still don't get though is Ratajacks "It has to be in the game to be implemented into the game" Stance. Or at least this is how I understood it the whole time

 

Anyway, I've been around long enough(not posting, but reading) to know that this has come up a million times already and probably will so in the future. I just stay patient, sooner or later it will come

Edited October 9, 2014 by Torvai

[Torvai]

I hope they never introduce legacy datacrons and so far everything I've seen and heard indicates that they have no intention to ever introduce legacy datacrons. I've provided the link to support this and other posted have provided their conversations with the devs. If you've had a conversation with a dev who said otherwise, please feel free to provide your experience.

Nothing I'm aware of. But it wouldn't be the first time they implement something that they said would never come

 

That said, if they ever choose to introduce legacy datacrons, I would hope they do it in something like this fashion.

 

1) Legacy datacron is faction specific and must be earned separately for each faction

 

2) ALL datacrons must be found by a single character to unlock legacy datacrons for that faction.

 

3) The unlock should carry a HIGH cost, whether that cost be in CC's or credits.

 

4) Stat bonuses are not "awarded" until a character reaches max level. If a player wants the bonus from a particular datacron prior to reaching max level, they can find that datacron.

Exactly what i said. A perk that gets unlocked only if you have the Datacron Master achievement. And you would have to pay for every character you want to have it on, not once for the whole legacy. Pretty much the way the HK-51 unlock works. Get the option to pay for it, grind them again or just ignore them.

I wouldn't say max level, but something like lvl 40. Since you are theoretically able to get all of them at around that level. Although that would probably include alot of dying

 

And as a sidenote: Even if it would be implemented, i wouldn't get it for all toons. Since like most people I have a few toons i barely play, so why bother with it?

Edited October 9, 2014 by Torvai

[MagikFingerz]

That said, if they ever choose to introduce legacy datacrons, I would hope they do it in something like this fashion.

 

1) Legacy datacron is faction specific and must be earned separately for each faction

 

2) ALL datacrons must be found by a single character to unlock legacy datacrons for that faction.

 

3) The unlock should carry a HIGH cost, whether that cost be in CC's or credits.

 

4) Stat bonuses are not "awarded" until a character reaches max level. If a player wants the bonus from a particular datacron prior to reaching max level, they can find that datacron.

 

I would be fine with all of that, and I think anyone who wants this would too.

 

And seriously, you're being incredibly nitpicky about the class buffs. Yes, since they expire they're TECHNICALLY temporary, but the fact that you can reapply them at any time negates their expiration in any practical sense. It's a stupid argument to make, which also applies to the link to a year and a half old website (that isn't even official) about them not PLANNING on implementing it at a certain point in time. Even if you linked to someplace where a dev said they would never do it, it still wouldn't be a good argument because nobody can predict the future. Hell, even YOU might change your mind about this in the future, we just don't know

[TravelersWay]

I would oppose making them Legacy-wide, unless you are just talking about codex entry unlocks. The unique issue we have with the 'crons are the stat and matrix shard rewards you get for "finding" them on each toon.

 

The main issue I have with the 'crons is the platforming necessary to get to a few of them. That's the real onerous part. For the most part, up to the point where I am at in the game, most of them aren't really that bad. A better suggestion would to be implement a system that offers an alternative to the platforming aspect of the game. That way, people who enjoy the asinine and annoying jumping puzzles can still continue to do them to their heart's content, and those that don't can eliminate that aspect, but are still at least required to go to the location of the 'cron in order to unlock the rewards.

 

The simplest thing to do would be to implement Legacy abilities that allow our characters to "jump" to a specific point in the area surrounding them. We already have a couple Legacy skills implemented (companion dance, unarmed brawling skills), so this would not be out of the ordinary. These new skills can be honed to fit the individual classes - Force Jump for the Jedi/Sith; Rocket Boost for the BH; Grappling Hook for the IA, Smug, and Trooper. Targeting for these abilities would be no different than targeting for some AoE skills - click the skill, move the reticule to the desired location, and (if in range/accessible), click again to "jump" to that location. Naturally, the range of these skills would be such that it makes reaching the more onerous 'cron locations less onerous and less reliant on outside factors such as lag and hardware which very much affects the current jumping mechanics in the game.

 

I still don't know why these discussions even happen. They've said they aren't doing it and there's no plans to do it other than the Codex entries. They've printed it (Ratajack posts the link all the time) and they've personally said it to my face at a Cantina stop. It's going nowhere and all these do is make people mad at each other and are a complete waste of time since they're never doing it.

 

At one point, they also said that there would never be player housing ...

 

Quite frankly, comments like this are completely asinine. I lost count of the times, years ago, on how many things were said by a developer of a game only to have been proven "wrong" at some other point down the line when a feature was implemented or not implemented. So pointing out links or what have you to what devs have said in the past or recent history are ultimately pointless. Regardless of the time that it takes, there is no reason to not suggest a desired feature for a game. In my anecdotal experience, more often than not, requests actually do come to fruition at some point.

Edited October 12, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Ratajack]

I would oppose making them Legacy-wide, unless you are just talking about codex entry unlocks. The unique issue we have with the 'crons are the stat and matrix shard rewards you get for "finding" them on each toon.

 

The main issue I have with the 'crons is the platforming necessary to get to a few of them. That's the real onerous part. For the most part, up to the point where I am at in the game, most of them aren't really that bad. A better suggestion would to be implement a system that offers an alternative to the platforming aspect of the game. That way, people who enjoy the asinine and annoying jumping puzzles can still continue to do them to their heart's content, and those that don't can eliminate that aspect, but are still at least required to go to the location of the 'cron in order to unlock the rewards.

 

The simplest thing to do would be to implement Legacy abilities that allow our characters to "jump" to a specific point in the area surrounding them. We already have a couple Legacy skills implemented (companion dance, unarmed brawling skills), so this would not be out of the ordinary. These new skills can be honed to fit the individual classes - Force Jump for the Jedi/Sith; Rocket Boost for the BH; Grappling Hook for the IA, Smug, and Trooper. Targeting for these abilities would be no different than targeting for some AoE skills - click the skill, move the reticule to the desired location, and (if in range/accessible), click again to "jump" to that location. Naturally, the range of these skills would be such that it makes reaching the more onerous 'cron locations less onerous and less reliant on outside factors such as lag and hardware which very much affects the current jumping mechanics in the game.

 

Like you, I support legacy codex entries for the datacrons, but not legacy stat bonuses. I would also support a legacy means to make the few "platform" ones easier to obtain, such as a grappling hook, provided that legacy ability was faction specific and could not be unlocked for a faction until a player had found ALL the datacrons with a single character in that faction.

 

 

At one point, they also said that there would never be player housing ...

 

Quite frankly, comments like this are completely asinine. I lost count of the times, years ago, on how many things were said by a developer of a game only to have been proven "wrong" at some other point down the line when a feature was implemented or not implemented. So pointing out links or what have you to what devs have said in the past or recent history are ultimately pointless. Regardless of the time that it takes, there is no reason to not suggest a desired feature for a game. In my anecdotal experience, more often than not, requests actually do come to fruition at some point.

 

Providing links to dev statements is not a bad thing, nor is it completely asinine. Providing links to dev statements can support a claim that a specific request has been made over and over again by those too averse to the minimal effort and time required to actually EARN something and that the devs have recognized these requests and have decided not to cater to those making the requests.

 

Is anything in these games subject to change? Yes, but that does not mean that if the whiners who are too averse to the minimal effort to find the datacrons with every character for which they want those stat bonuses continue to pester "Mommy" (BW) that the devs will cave and give them what they want.

 

Yes, those whiners can continue to make as many threads and posts as they choose, but I, and others, will continue to voice our objections and the latest dev statements on this subject.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Ratajack

[TravelersWay]

Like you, I support legacy codex entries for the datacrons, but not legacy stat bonuses. I would also support a legacy means to make the few "platform" ones easier to obtain, such as a grappling hook, provided that legacy ability was faction specific and could not be unlocked for a faction until a player had found ALL the datacrons with a single character in that faction.

Here I would have to disagree. These Legacy abilities should not be tied to anything except for a certain legacy level or something else legacy related. Quite frankly, though these skills could be used to reduce the platforming aspect of datacrons, their use/fun factor can and would go beyond just that use, therefore they should not be tied to anything other than the legacy feature, like all the others. Personally speaking, I don't know why we wouldn't have had skills like these since launch since they are so iconic to the classes we have in the game, and would tie in directly to things we witnessed in the original six movies. Not to mention the fact that these abilities would have gotten characters on my daughter's account out of far too many a /stuck situation that only Qing for a FP/WZ was able to solve. And I would not want to put any other player who winds up on that team through that experience again.

 

Providing links to dev statements is not a bad thing, nor is it completely asinine. Providing links to dev statements can support a claim that a specific request has been made over and over again by those too averse to the minimal effort and time required to actually EARN something and that the devs have recognized these requests and have decided not to cater to those making the requests.

 

Is anything in these games subject to change? Yes, but that does not mean that if the whiners who are too averse to the minimal effort to find the datacrons with every character for which they want those stat bonuses continue to pester "Mommy" (BW) that the devs will cave and give them what they want.

 

Yes, those whiners can continue to make as many threads and posts as they choose, but I, and others, will continue to voice our objections and the latest dev statements on this subject.

 

Well, maybe not completely asinine, but asinine in some part nonetheless. Again, I harken back to the history of the industry itself (and I am not just talking about MMOs), in that these "Whiners" as you call them are why many things have improved in the industry, and more specifically why countless devs and games have seen many, many features and gameplay elements implemented in them. So from my standpoint, QQers pester away. It's ultimately the only thing that has been proven to get the community the features and things that they desire. The only guarantee that silence grants is that nothing will ever change.

Edited October 12, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Ratajack]

Here I would have to disagree. These Legacy abilities should not be tied to anything except for a certain legacy level or something else legacy related. Quite frankly, though these skills could be used to reduce the platforming aspect of datacrons, their use/fun factor can and would go beyond just that use, therefore they should not be tied to anything other than the legacy feature, like all the others. Personally speaking, I don't know why we wouldn't have had skills like these since launch since they are so iconic to the classes we have in the game, and would tie in directly to things we witnessed in the original six movies. Not to mention the fact that these abilities would have gotten characters on my daughter's account out of far too many a /stuck situation that only Qing for a FP/WZ was able to solve. And I would not want to put any other player who winds up on that team through that experience again.

 

Tying those "legacy abilities" to the requirement that the unlocks be faction specific and that ALL datacrons be found with a single character would ensure that that player did find all the datacrons as they were designed and intended to be found.

 

 

Well, maybe not completely asinine, but asinine in some part nonetheless. Again, I harken back to the history of the industry itself (and I am not just talking about MMOs), in that these "Whiners" as you call them are why many things have improved in the industry, and more specifically why countless devs and games have seen many, many features and gameplay elements implemented in them. So from my standpoint, QQers pester away. It's ultimately the only thing that has been proven to get the community the features and things that they desire. The only guarantee that silence grants is that nothing will ever change.

 

Everything is subject to change. That does not mean that everything SHOULD be changed or that something WILL be changed simply because those too averse to putting forth the minimal effort and time required to actually EARN something for a specific character continue to pester for that change.

 

Many have argued that the stat bonuses are minimal and therefore should be made legacy wide. On the flip side of that argument, if the stat bonuses are so minimal, then if a player chose not find them with a specific character, not having them on a specific character would have little effect on that character. That leaves the player free to decide whether or not those bonuses are worth the minimal time and effort required to actually earn them for that character.

 

If making the datacron stat bonuses legacy wide would entail a complete overhaul of the current datacron system, for example, then maybe it should stay the way it is. That would leave development dollars for other things, rather than spend those development dollars on something that would have minimal effect on characters.

[TravelersWay]

Tying those "legacy abilities" to the requirement that the unlocks be faction specific and that ALL datacrons be found with a single character would ensure that that player did find all the datacrons as they were designed and intended to be found.

But again, that is tying Legacy abilities to something in the game that has nothing to do with Legacy whatsoever. That's like saying no one can play GSF until they have completed all PvE space missions with their bonuses at least once on each faction. It would make no sense. That fact that people may or may not use these abilities to get the datacrons is ultimately irrelevant. They still would have to go through the actions of reaching those datacrons, which seems to be the main point of contention. The effort would still be there, it would just be done in a slightly different manner, much like the habit now of one player pulling another to certain datacrons (except of course, the legacy abilities would require more of an effort on the part of the player desiring the 'cron).

 

 

Everything is subject to change. That does not mean that everything SHOULD be changed or that something WILL be changed simply because those too averse to putting forth the minimal effort and time required to actually EARN something for a specific character continue to pester for that change.

 

Many have argued that the stat bonuses are minimal and therefore should be made legacy wide. On the flip side of that argument, if the stat bonuses are so minimal, then if a player chose not find them with a specific character, not having them on a specific character would have little effect on that character. That leaves the player free to decide whether or not those bonuses are worth the minimal time and effort required to actually earn them for that character.

 

If making the datacron stat bonuses legacy wide would entail a complete overhaul of the current datacron system, for example, then maybe it should stay the way it is. That would leave development dollars for other things, rather than spend those development dollars on something that would have minimal effect on characters.

 

And again, I cannot count the number of times over the years that something has been implemented in a game precisely because of the "whiners who do not want to put forth the effort" and the game ultimately became better for it. Many of those times, I railed against said feature, such as you are doing now, but in the end, I could not deny the benefit it brought to the overall game and community.

 

As I said before, I agree that it should not be a Legacy unlock - that obviously would be far too much resource-wise to implement for too little benefit, hence my suggestion. Sometimes it seems people try to over-analyze something far too much and overlook the simplest and easiest solution. There is no denying that the Legacy system was designed and meant as a means of making some of the more grindy aspects of the game less so (or bypass them altogether). Having more legacy abilities would also make it more interesting and useful while still fulfilling that purpose. It would also do in a way that would require a lot less effort and resources on the part of the dev team as opposed to some of the other suggestions here and elsewhere. It also covers the issue on both sides of the coin here by making the platforming less troublesome, while still requiring the effort of getting to each datacron, thus satify the "earning" requirement.

Edited October 12, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Ratajack]

But again, that is tying Legacy abilities to something in the game that has nothing to do with Legacy whatsoever. That's like saying no one can play GSF until they have completed all PvE space missions with their bonuses at least once on each faction. It would make no sense. That fact that people may or may not use these abilities to get the datacrons is ultimately irrelevant. They still would have to go through the actions of reaching those datacrons, which seems to be the main point of contention. The effort would still be there, it would just be done in a slightly different manner, much like the habit now of one player pulling another to certain datacrons (except of course, the legacy abilities would require more of an effort on the part of the player desiring the 'cron).

 

Tell me, does completing chapter 2 of a class story have anything to do with legacy? NO. It has to do with that specific character only, and yet they tie the legacy class buff to completing chapter 2 of the class story.

 

The game is full of things that have nothing whatsoever to do with legacy themselves and yet provide legacy bonuses.

 

Why not ensure that player A has to find the datacrons at least ONCE as the devs intended them to be found?

[TravelersWay]

Tell me, does completing chapter 2 of a class story have anything to do with legacy? NO. It has to do with that specific character only, and yet they tie the legacy class buff to completing chapter 2 of the class story.

 

The game is full of things that have nothing whatsoever to do with legacy themselves and yet provide legacy bonuses.

 

Why not ensure that player A has to find the datacrons at least ONCE as the devs intended them to be found?

 

And the inverse is also true - even more so.

 

And the 'crons would still be found as the devs intended them to be found - as a small perk to exploration; going off the beaten path. That would not change. The only thing that would actually change is that reaching some of them would offer the option of clicking the mouse instead of pressing the spacebar. Therefore there is no need to tie the proposed Legacy skills to anything but as a Legacy unlock. And before you say that they were intended to be found using the spacebar, then we would need to ensure that no one could rebind the spacebar key, and we would have to ensure that any skill that allows one player to jump to or be pulled by another player is also unavailable until said player finds all the datacrons once per character on each faction.

Edited October 13, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Ratajack]

And the inverse is also true - even more so.

 

And the 'crons would still be found as the devs intended them to be found - as a small perk to exploration; going off the beaten path. That would not change. The only thing that would actually change is that reaching some of them would offer the option of clicking the mouse instead of pressing the spacebar. Therefore there is no need to tie the proposed Legacy skills to anything but as a Legacy unlock. And before you say that they were intended to be found using the spacebar, then we would need to ensure that no one could rebind the spacebar key, and we would have to ensure that any skill that allows one player to jump to or be pulled by another player is also unavailable until said player finds all the datacrons once per character on each faction.

 

I would argue that the devs intended that some datacrons be reached by jumping, or balloon ride in the case of Tattooine, (solo) or by cooperation between players (pulling by another player, or using a skill to jump to that player) , or those datacrons would have been designed differently.

 

Once again, I support making the datacrons easier to reach on subsequent characters. I just think that a player should find them at least once as they were apparently designed to be reached.

[TravelersWay]

I would argue that the devs intended that some datacrons be reached by jumping, or balloon ride in the case of Tattooine, (solo) or by cooperation between players (pulling by another player, or using a skill to jump to that player) , or those datacrons would have been designed differently.

 

Once again, I support making the datacrons easier to reach on subsequent characters. I just think that a player should find them at least once as they were apparently designed to be reached.

 

And intentions change all the time. We can also say that the devs never intended reaching some of the 'crons to be as onerous as many players find them. We can say that Strongholds, Freestyle Space PvP, the Disciples feature, and double/12x XP bonuses should never have been implemented in the game because the game was not originally designed to support those systems, and in the case of one, the devs flat out stated their intention was for the game to never have it. Yet, the game is better off with those systems implemented, regardless of what one player or a group of players may think of the usefulness of said systems.

 

The "intention" of something is an irrelevant argument because there will always be a reason to do something based on intention and conversely an equally valid reason not to do something based on the same intention. Ultimately, the choice boils down to whether the something benefits the game or not, regardless of original design or intention.

 

One can extrapolate that the original design and intention of the datacrons are as a reward for exploration, and that there are different options in how to go about obtaining said reward - including options that aren't immediately available when one would be in a position to come across said datacron through normal progression, such as being able to use Sprint, Stealth, Rocket Boost, or a Speeder on the early level planets. Adding Legacy abilities whose primary purpose would be to enhance the gameplay experience like the current ones (Companion Dance and Brawler Skills), but have the added benefit of being another option for players to use to obtain the datacrons would not change that original design or intention. Therefore there need not be any other prereqs required to use them.

Edited October 13, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Ratajack]

And intentions change all the time. We can also say that the devs never intended reaching some of the 'crons to be as onerous as many players find them. We can say that Strongholds, Freestyle Space PvP, and double/12x XP bonuses should never have been implemented in the game because the game was not originally designed to support those systems, and in the case of one, the devs flat out stated their intention was for the game to never have it. Yet, the game is better off with those systems implemented, regardless of what one player or a group of players may think of the usefulness of said systems.

 

The "intention" of something is an irrelevant argument because there will always be a reason to do something based on intention and conversely an equally valid reason not to do something based on the same intention. Ultimately, the choice boils down to whether the something benefits the game or not, regardless of original design or intention.

 

One can extrapolate that the original design and intention of the datacrons are as a reward for exploration, and that there are different options in how to go about obtaining said reward - including options that aren't immediately available when one would be in a position to come across said datacron through normal progression, such as being able to use Sprint, Stealth, Rocket Boost, or a Speeder on the early level planets. Adding Legacy abilities whose primary purpose would be to enhance the gameplay experience like the current ones (Companion Dance and Brawler Skills), but have the added benefit of being another option for players to use to obtain the datacrons would not change that original design or intention. Therefore there need not be any other prereqs required to use them.

 

There also is no reason not to require that all datacrons be found by a single character to unlock those skills for that faction on subsequent characters within that faction.

 

As you said, it is all up to the devs. So far, they have chosen to leave the datacrons and their stat bonuses as designed and on a per character basis.

[TravelersWay]

As you said, it is all up to the devs. So far, they have chosen to leave the datacrons and their stat bonuses as designed and on a per character basis.

 

And that is no reason why is should not be changed. Either now, or some time in the future. As far as we know, their intention is to do the very thing that I or others suggest. There can be myriad of reasons why they have not done so at this point in time - just as there was for Customizable UI, hood toggles, chat bubbles, chair sitting, and all those other things I mentioned. Again, just because something is the way it is in the game (or any game for that matter) does not mean it should always be that way.

Edited October 13, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Ratajack]

And that is no reason why is should not be changed. Either now, or some time in the future. As far as we know, their intention is to do the very thing that I or others suggest. There can be myriad of reasons why they have not done so at this point in time - just as there was for Customizable UI, hood toggles, chat bubbles, chair sitting, and all those other things I mentioned. Again, just because something is the way it is in the game (or any game for that matter) does not mean it should always be that way.

 

The fact that something CAN be changed does not mean that it SHOULD be changed. Not all changes are good for the game and some changes that may seem to be good can have adverse affects.

 

Let's not forget what happens when you give a mouse a cookie. All you need to do is look at these forums to see what has happened almost every time BW has made a change to make "the game easier".

 

They gave us a double XP weekend, and when that weekend was over the forums exploded with clamoring of "when's the next double XP event", "Give us permanent double XP legacy unlocks" and "it's not fair that I missed out on double XP since I didn't play during the double XP weekend (for whatever reason) and you owe me BW".

 

They give us 12x XP so that players can level through class stories only and make the skills training free and the forums are full of complaints that they are not giving us free gear all the way to 55 and that players actually have to upgrade their gear.

 

They give us legacy storage and the forums are full of complaints that there is not enough space, or that there is no legacy credit storage.

 

What will the next demand be if they cave on this issue and give us legacy datacrons?

 

Maybe this is one cookie that the devs should not give that mouse.

 

Datacrons are one of those things that should remain in the "have to be earned per character" category, IMO. In addition, IMO, they should have to be earned at least once as designed before any unlocks to make them easier to obtain on subsequent characters be made available.

[TravelersWay]

EDIT: reply moved to other thread for simplicities' sake at this point:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7727252#post7727252

Edited October 13, 2014 by TravelersWay

[James_Mcturney]

Since datacrons give a stat bonus, wouldn't that be pay-to-win?

Since you have to pay to reach lvl 50+, do ops, warzones, gsf, etc... freely on each toon... isn't that pay to win?

[BlackSilverRoar]

*Signed. I've 22 max level toons and to get all the datacrons for each one is a NIGHTMARE.

 

Absolutely YES to Legacy datacrons. A definite must.

[Heromofo]

/signed