To all the 1v1 posters here...

[MatchlessGlory]

I love the dynamics of the classes in this game and the ability to team play. Healers are weaker than most games I've played but in team settings are great. Tanks are absolutely awesome when guarding, etc.

 

Well played.

[TheFishes]

If people think anyone is going to stop complaining about this game not being balanced around 1v1 they are bigger idiots than those complaining.

 

It never stops. It never will. It is like this in every game that comes out.

 

I like where you're head's at...

 

I'd like it more if it was in a fire...

 

That's how productive you sound!

[Birdflew]

If/when they implement 8v8 premades, I think we are gonna witness some insane battles.

 

Allmost feels like that´s what they have been aiming for.

[Bosseking]

Bg kind of play is for teamwork, arena kind of game is for skill. Simple as that. You don't really need to know how to play your class to be effective in bgs, as long as you are working for your team.

[Birdflew]

Bg kind of play is for teamwork, arena kind of game is for skill. Simple as that. You don't really need to know how to play your class to be effective in bgs, as long as you are working for your team.

 

This is just so wrong.

 

If you have 2 teams, both with good teamplay, obviously skill counts.

 

Hell! Teamplay is a skill of its own.

 

 

/Bird

[TheFishes]

Bg kind of play is for teamwork, arena kind of game is for skill. Simple as that. You don't really need to know how to play your class to be effective in bgs, as long as you are working for your team.

 

People still aren't getting it...

 

In this game, "Skill" is a team working together...

 

Ignore the WZ objectives for a minute, you NEED to be playing as a team to have any success in this PvP system, no matter if it be Warzones, World, or god forbid if it's ever implemented Arenas...

 

It was always that way in W:AR, and guess who developed the PvP in this game!

[Jnaathra]

I like where you're head's at...

 

I'd like it more if it was in a fire...

 

That's how productive you sound!

 

Yes I am right. You are wrong.

[Dwighty]

It's quite simple...

 

This pvp system is based around teamwork. I've seen the following type posts, and I'd like to respond how I did after I got over the rage...

 

1 - I'm a tank spec tank class that can't kill anyone 1 on 1:

 

No, you can't, because it's not your job... Team based PvP means, given the tools you have, that it's your job to roll around with the light armor dps and healers. Have you ever noticed that they are the ones targeted first? Guardians/Juggernauts, you get your force charge not so much to go after the enemy, but rather to get back to the guy beating on your healer, he's stunned now, reapply guard, taunt him, and keep him controlled til your dps can get on him. Same thing goes for you Powertechs that have a pull, but in reverse, so you can peel the threats off of your "clothies."

 

2 - I'm a healer and I can't out heal a dps 1 on 1:

 

No, you can't, because it's not your job... You have, as a healer, a great many tools at your disposal (stun breaks, knockbacks, instant cast stuns, sprints and slows) to allow you to control the target that jumped you and kite him back towards the tanks/dps. If the tank is doing his job, you can stand there all day and spam heals on yourself, but if you're all by your lonesome, don't expect for a minute that it will work... Constant movement and fluid adaptations to situations are what win in team based pvp...

 

3 - I'm a melee dps and I can't kill the ranged players 1 on 1:

 

Nope, no you can't, not if you keep running right at him while he kites you... Have the tank that should be running around with you pull him in, or stun him and sprint up. Perhaps look into using the enviornment to break LoS and let the fool run up looking for you. This is just unexcuseable for everyone, even the WoW junkies... Would you let a frost mage or hunter kite you til you're dead? Really? cause 2+2=dumb... don't pick ranged targets halfway across the field, and expect to own them...

 

4 - I'm a PvPer and Huttball is the worst game ever cause I never win...

 

Right... Ok... Play the game of Huttball, not the game of Mr. Stabby McStabberson... Kill the ball carrier when he picks it up in the middle, pass it to a teammate on the upper tier, as the dps jumps him, he'll stun break and pass the ball further down the field. Score, win, get stuff... The only thing in Huttball needing fixed is the ability to queue as an Ops group, (As I am sick of us queueing 2 groups seperately and winding up on different sides...) and those damn jets need to put you onto a random catwalk every time... I don't care which one, just make sure it doesn't waste 4-5 tries only to be thrown back into the middle...

 

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I know I'm not...

 

Would be nice, but u forget one thing. The level differencies and with that, the skill differencies. I mean skills, what u get from your trainer. On higher lvls u have more ways to keep ur allies alive, or hold/kill ur enemies. I think the classes are well balanced around same lvls, so I dont agree people who crying for nerfs. But fight against lvl 30+ 40+ 50 players around lvl10-20 is totally a joke. U just get ganked most times. Some said, fight against higher lvls is fine, because lower lvl players can learn from highers some technics. Really? What? All they can learn is how they keep their energy on 100% by just using basic hits against newbies. Good lesson, thank you. So not the classes are unbalanced, but Warzones themselves without brackets. I could talking about some skills, like knockbacks, force leap, force run in Huttball for example, and some others, but until lvl10-50 players are fighting in same Warzones together, those unbalanced skills really does'nt matters too much.

[TheFishes]

Would be nice, but u forget one thing. The level differencies and with that, the skill differencies. I mean skills, what u get from your trainer. On higher lvls u have more ways to keep ur allies alive, or hold/kill ur enemies. I think the classes are well balanced around same lvls, so I dont agree people who crying for nerfs. But fight against lvl 30+ 40+ 50 players around lvl10-20 is totally a joke. U just get ganked most times. Some said, fight against higher lvls is fine, because lower lvl players can learn from highers some technics. Really? What? All they can learn is how they keep their energy on 100% by just using basic hits against newbies. Good lesson, thank you. So not the classes are unbalanced, but Warzones themselves without brackets. I could talking about some skills, like knockbacks, force leap, force run in Huttball for example, and some others, but until lvl10-50 players are fighting in same Warzones together, those unbalanced skills really does'nt matters too much.

 

It is assumed that this post is in fact referring to players of roughly equal levels... You're just stating the obvious. I'm in my 40's as are most of the people I'm in PvP groups with, and when facing those of equal level, everything in the OP applies...

 

It's $15/month to play this game, but grammar and punctuation are free...

[Riahen]

Well, some of those things -are- possible if you have skill. PVP is very skill oriented. Sometimes you just need to outsmart the enemy, even if the cards are stacked against you.

 

 

Though obviously some classes are better then some jobs then others. On my sniper I love DPSing and picking off huttball carriers, and dread having to carry it.

[Dwighty]

It is assumed that this post is in fact referring to players of roughly equal levels... You're just stating the obvious. I'm in my 40's as are most of the people I'm in PvP groups with, and when facing those of equal level, everything in the OP applies...

 

It's $15/month to play this game, but grammar and punctuation are free...

 

Yeah, thanks for the "fee lesson" but but a language class is not free, dont forget, not english the only language in the World. Maybe i dont speak it very well, but as I've seen you mostly understood, what I've talking about.A full language course in my country is around 800$, my salary is around 400$/month, so if you want me to speak and write better, any amount is appreciated;)

Edited December 24, 2011 by Dwighty

[TheFishes]

And now I feel like a jerk...

 

only a little though, I am a horrible person...

 

But the truth in my OP is still there...

[Repefe]

Nice post +1.

[Bosseking]

People still aren't getting it...

 

In this game, "Skill" is a team working together...

 

Ignore the WZ objectives for a minute, you NEED to be playing as a team to have any success in this PvP system, no matter if it be Warzones, World, or god forbid if it's ever implemented Arenas...

 

It was always that way in W:AR, and guess who developed the PvP in this game!

 

I think I said it wrong. I agree there, it's all about teamwork. You don't need to really know how to counterspell perfectly, fake heal, make great use of los, know every ability of every class and their weaknesess (which are the skills arena requires) as long as you are working for your team. It is more important to defend, go for objectives etc., and that is what swtor pvp is all about at the moment. In terms of induvidual play, arena type is obviously much more demanding, but it's not easy to coordinate bigger team in bg's either.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Bosseking

[TheFishes]

I think I said it wrong. I agree there, it's all about teamwork. You don't need to really know how to counterspell perfectly, fake heal, make great use of los, know every ability of every class and their weaknesess (which are the skills arena requires) as long as you are working for your team. It is more important to defend, go for objectives etc., and that is what swtor pvp is all about at the moment. In terms of induvidual play, arena type is obviously much more demanding, but it's not easy to coordinate bigger team in bg's either.

 

True, but that's why I've been lobbying for the IHL (Intergalactic Huttball League) for ages as a form of rated WZ's... It's easy to min max 2-3 people and have them work as a team, it's a lot harder to get 8 people to do it...

[GoLoT]

Wrong. Healers are supposed to keep someone (themselves) alive until they run out of mana, that's their only goal, because they have a limited ammount of force and they should be able to DO THEIR JOB until they run out power. That's how it should be.

Healers should be able to outheal a single player DPS because that's their job, DPSers do damage, healers heal it and there should be a balance between the two. If healers can't counter a DPS then they are useless. It's stupid to say healers are supposed to die everytime they face someone and their only job is to run around and maybe find someone else to help them survive a bit longer.

 

Tanks can soak up a lot of damage, they can stand a long time vs 2, 3 and even 4 players attacking them (I've seen it happen many times, at least until their buffs and CDs were gone). That's their job and they can do it because they have skills and stats to support it.

 

DPSers can do a lot of damage. Some do burst damage (sins/shadows doing quick 3k+ dmg hits), some do constant dps with dots or channeled skills. That's their job and they can do it right, because the game allows them to do it.

 

Healers with HEALING SPEC (I'm talking about healers spending every single skill point in the healing tree and using UPGRADED light armor, as I'm playing a sorc and can't really talk about other healing classes) are supposed to heal and keep their OR (not and, just ONE at a time) someone else's hp up. If you think it's fair for heales to die in seconds to a single DPSer or think that the healer classes are ok as they are, then you clearly haven't played a healer. You even said in your post IT'S OKAY FOR HEALERS TO DIE TO ANYONE BUT TANKS. I'm sorry but I have to disagree, healers only have one purpose: Healing. If their healing is so weak and useless they can't stand a single player while they still have force to keep casting, then something is wrong. I bet you would be ok with tanks dying in 2 hits, just because you aren't playing one and it doesn't really affect you. And also if dpsers did the same damage as tanks, as long as your class had the advantage over the rest. But, of course, if some class could counter your DPS, then it would be wrong. That's why people that don't play healers don't want them to be able to stand in a fair fight.

 

Keep thinking healers are only some annoying class that only runs around until a dpser 2-hits it and you'll end up doing flashpoints with your healing companions. Healers are useless right now unless you are playing vs PUGs that don't attack the healers, but that's not PvP, that's abuse. If nothing changes soon people will just respec or reroll dps and we will be fked without healers.

 

And people, please, before saying l2p or anything, please play a 50 healer and show us how to do it right. Then, after proving you are better than everyone else playing healers and that healers aren't underpowered, maybe you'll be in position to tell someone else to learn to play their own classes.

 

PS: I'm not asking for anything. Not asking to remove the stupid 30% reduction debuff in PvP that ONLY AFFECTS HEALING. Not DPS, not defense, not shield rate. Only healing afaik. And not asking for a nerf for the assassins/shadows that a lot of people is asking for, even the other dpsers that keep dying to them. I just give my opinion based on playing a healer for 50 levels. I really hope it will get better for us with full PvP stuff and some defense/alacrity stuff, but I'm not counting on it.

Edited December 25, 2011 by GoLoT

[Birdflew]

Healers should be able to outheal a single player DPS because that's their job, DPSers do damage, healers heal it and there should be a balance between the two. If healers can't counter a DPS then they are useless. It's stupid to say healers are supposed to die everytime they face someone and their only job is to run around and maybe find someone else to help them survive a bit longer.

 

Tanks can soak up a lot of damage, they can stand a long time vs 2, 3 and even 4 players attacking them (I've seen it happen many times, at least until their buffs and CDs were gone). That's their job and they can do it because they have skills and stats to support it.

 

DPSers can do a lot of damage. Some do burst damage (sins/shadows doing quick 3k+ dmg hits), some do constant dps with dots or channeled skills. That's their job and they can do it right, because the game allows them to do it.

 

Healers with HEALING SPEC (I'm talking about healers spending every single skill point in the healing tree and using UPGRADED light armor, as I'm playing a sorc and can't really talk about other healing classes) are supposed to heal and keep their OR (not and, just ONE at a time) someone else's hp up. If you think it's fair for heales to die in seconds to a single DPSer or think that the healer classes are ok as they are, then you clearly haven't played a healer. You even said in your post IT'S OKAY FOR HEALERS TO DIE TO ANYONE BUT TANKS. I'm sorry but I have to disagree, healers only have one purpose: Healing. If their healing is so weak and useless they can't stand a single player while they still have force to keep casting, then something is wrong. I bet you would be ok with tanks dying in 2 hits, just because you aren't playing one and it doesn't really affect you. And also if dpsers did the same damage as tanks, as long as your class had the advantage over the rest. But, of course, if some class could counter your DPS, then it would be wrong. That's why people that don't play healers don't want them to be able to stand in a fair fight.

 

Keep thinking healers are only some annoying class that only runs around until a dpser 2-hits it and you'll end up doing flashpoints with your healing companions. Healers are useless right now unless you are playing vs PUGs that don't attack the healers, but that's not PvP, that's abuse. If nothing changes soon people will just respec or reroll dps and we will be fked without healers.

 

And people, please, before saying l2p or anything, please play a 50 healer and show us how to do it right. Then, after proving you are better than everyone else playing healers and that healers aren't underpowered, maybe you'll be in position to tell someone else to learn to play their own classes.

 

 

There's one "truth" you got wrong. It made the whole post false.

 

A healers job is not just healing.

 

If you knew how to use your other skills you would know that healing isn´t all you can do to keep your friends alive.

 

 

 

Noone is saying healers should get 2-shotted and die, which they don't, unless you play them wrong.

I can outlast a dps for quite some time. But not forever. Even two I can manage for a while.

 

You are thinking from a 1v1 perspective, and that is just wrong. It's wrong until they release 1v1 warzones atleast.

 

You have friends around, you should play like a team.

 

 

As for the last part. YOU play a 50 healer. And then after proving you are better than everyone else (lol), maybe you're in a position to blah blah blah....

 

 

l2p

Edited December 25, 2011 by Birdflew

[Knifewrench]

Every healer in here wants to be like WoW healers... the ability to hold off many other players while having infinite mana and eventually getting DR'd to the point where they cannot be stunlocked and there's not enough interrupts to stop their topping. And if they stay alive long enough, THEIR teammates will kill off the assailants.

 

Don't act like you're dying in two shots because dedicated healing somehow equals low HP & defense. There are no special rules in place for mediocre players to mash a couple keys and outlast someone.

[Rasstavad]

Every healer in here wants to be like WoW healers... the ability to hold off many other players while having infinite mana and eventually getting DR'd to the point where they cannot be stunlocked and there's not enough interrupts to stop their topping. And if they stay alive long enough, THEIR teammates will kill off the assailants.

 

Don't act like you're dying in two shots because dedicated healing somehow equals low HP & defense. There are no special rules in place for mediocre players to mash a couple keys and outlast someone.

 

Most of my 3's matches last season lasted less than a minute. I ran Frost DK, Warrior, RSham. Every team we fought had at least 1 healer with the occasional double healer dk/warrior to annoy us. I played at 2K+ (where TSG topped out). Healers only seem godmode in random BG's where people were undergeared/sucked or lacked the communication to properly CC and interrupt a healer. It's a different story against competent players.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Rasstavad

[Caeliux]

It's quite simple...

 

This pvp system is based around teamwork.

 

Amen and a +1 for that ^^

[GoLoT]

Again, are you playing a 50 healer or are you talking as a dpser that kills the healers? If you don't play a healer, don't talk about what healers can or can't do, or what healers should or shouldn't do. Or if you do, show it and prove me wrong.

 

I take 3k+ damage from single hits very often. I have 11k HP (so they take almost a 30% of my HP in a single hit) because I filled my mods with as much def, alacrity and power I could to be more effective at healing. As a healer I can CC once, that's it, ONCE every minute, and also cast a cool bubble that can't be cast again for 20 seconds and breaks with the first hit from a dpser. If I run I can't heal myself and they just keep attacking me until I die (sorc healers have a 1.5s cast time, and that's the lowest heal, that heals for less than 1k and can't be cast while moving). If I stop to heal they outdps my heals even killing me before the first heal I cast goes off (every hit has pushback, even with the skill to reduce it, and makes it go from 2.5s for Dark Infusion to 4s+ cast time, that's if they don't CC or break your cast, and everyone has many skills to do this).

 

That is, every 4-5 secs standing I can heal for 2-3k. In 5 seconds some DPSers can do more than 10k damage if they pop the right skills at the right time, or they just CC to break the heal at the last second and get some extra seconds to finish you, and also some more seconds after you break the CC because you have to start casting the heal again.

 

Again, play a 50 sorcerer healer before you say anything. I only see people agree that healers are fked in 1v1 and they should stay that way because they don't play one and it only helps them. Period.

[Birdflew]

Again, are you playing a 50 healer or are you talking as a dpser that kills the healers? If you don't play a healer, don't talk about what healers can or can't do, or what healers should or shouldn't do. Or if you do, show it and prove me wrong.

 

I take 3k+ damage from single hits very often. I have 11k HP (so they take almost a 30% of my HP in a single hit) because I filled my mods with as much def, alacrity and power I could to be more effective at healing. As a healer I can CC once, that's it, ONCE every minute, and also cast a cool bubble that can't be cast again for 20 seconds and breaks with the first hit from a dpser. If I run I can't heal myself and they just keep attacking me until I die (sorc healers have a 1.5s cast time, and that's the lowest heal, that heals for less than 1k and can't be cast while moving). If I stop to heal they outdps my heals even killing me before the first heal I cast goes off (every hit has pushback, even with the skill to reduce it, and makes it go from 2.5s for Dark Infusion to 4s+ cast time, that's if they don't CC or break your cast, and everyone has many skills to do this).

 

That is, every 4-5 secs standing I can heal for 2-3k. In 5 seconds some DPSers can do more than 10k damage if they pop the right skills at the right time, or they just CC to break the heal at the last second and get some extra seconds to finish you, and also some more seconds after you break the CC because you have to start casting the heal again.

 

Again, play a 50 sorcerer healer before you say anything. I only see people agree that healers are fked in 1v1 and they should stay that way because they don't play one and it only helps them. Period.

 

 

If you can only CC "ONCE EVERY MINUTE", then maybe you should put your other CC abilites on your gosh darn actionbars.

 

Geez!

[GoLoT]

Every healer in here wants to be like WoW healers... the ability to hold off many other players while having infinite mana and eventually getting DR'd to the point where they cannot be stunlocked and there's not enough interrupts to stop their topping. And if they stay alive long enough, THEIR teammates will kill off the assailants.

 

Don't act like you're dying in two shots because dedicated healing somehow equals low HP & defense. There are no special rules in place for mediocre players to mash a couple keys and outlast someone.

 

And ofc you didn't read my post. First I don't play WoW, I don't like WoW and I quit before burning was out. No one is asking to have limitless force, no one is asking to be able to keep a full party at 100% hp at all times just spamming a key, and no one is asking to be immune to everything. I'm stating a fact. No one of you has played a sorcerer healer and don't know what you are talking about, you are OK with healers as they are because it's easy for you to kill them.

 

As I said, I find it unfair that any DPSer can kill a healer without effort, no matter what the healer does. And we have a limited force pool, but it doesn't matter because you die before it goes below 50%. We should have a chance to keep ourselves alive at least until we run out of force, that's it.

 

Look at it this way: Your attacks have a fixed cast time, some of them instant. To counter a single attack that usually takes 1.5 seconds (GCD) we need to cast 1 heal that takes almost 3 seconds to cast, more if you take damage while casting. We can't break your instant casts, you can break our heals easily. We can CC for 4 seconds to cast a single heal and heal 2-3k hp that you can take away again in 1.5 seconds. You can CC for some seconds too breaking the current healing, preventing a healer from healing for that time, and making him start casting again when the cc goes off. You can drop him to 0% hp in that time and if he survives the CC or breaks it, you can break his next healing again and finish him.

 

To be clear, I'm talking about SORCERERS here, that's the class I play and unlike you, I talk from the experience and about a class I know. We don't get spammable instant heals like some other classes, we don't have medium/heavy armor like other classes, and we don't get a shield for dmg absorb like other classes do.

 

It's funny because people seem to be hurt when a healer complains about healers being underpowered when they don't even play one.

 

And yeah, I know this game is based on teamwork, but that doesn't make it less true that healers are underpowered in PvP (at least sorcerers) and are close to useless unless you have a good team setup and your rivals are noobs that don't focus on you. I sometimes cast a heal on someone and 2-3 enemies jump on me, CC me and kill me before the CC is over. And even if they don't CC me, I can't cast at all because of the pushback and the looong cast time.

[Birdflew]

Have you read my signature?

[GoLoT]

If you can only CC "ONCE EVERY MINUTE", then maybe you should put your other CC abilites on your gosh darn actionbars.

 

Geez!

 

What other CCs are you talking about? Enlighten me. We have 2 CCs. Whirlwind (1 min CC for sorcs that breaks if they take damage, 1 min CD) and Electrocute (4s stun, 1 min CD). If you cast WW they break it. If you cast shock it gives you 4 seconds to cast 1, maybe 2 heals and heal for less than 4k HP. Again, that's what some DPSers do with a single skill.

Edited December 25, 2011 by GoLoT