Revan, 3.0 & the Infinite Empire

[Darth_Wicked]

This is a rather lengthy post so I tried to format it to the best of my ability, to make the reading more agreeable.

 

Here goes.

 

- - - -

 

With the release of the

for 3.0 last tuesday, a lot of questions popped up:

 

Where is Revan? Is that a temple of some sorts? And if it is, who built it? And where? Come to think of it, is that even Revan to begin with? And what about that... thing behind him? Is it a Sith artifact or something else? Something more?

 

While I think no one can answer to the above questions for sure, solely relying on the teaser itself, we can probably try to explore what came before it and the center of it all.

 

Before doing that however, I've written a few words on Revan, seeing that I believe it is fundamental we understand his journey, from the humblest beginnings.

 

As most people surely know by now, Revan was initially a Jedi Knight who disobeyed the Jedi Council, and chose to fight the mandalorians lead by Mandalore the Ultimate, thus making a name for himself during the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Once the war ended, Revan traveled into the Unknown Regions with Malak, where they eventually encountered the Sith Empire reborn, being lead by an all-powerful self-proclaimed Sith Emperor.

 

Faltering in their devotion to the Light even before that encounter, they eventually succumbed to the Dark side and became servants to the Sith Emperor, tasked with the objective of discovering the location of the "Star Forge", a monstrous space station from the time of the "Infinite Empire", the Golden Era for a species known as the "Rakata".

 

, the Star Forge was one of three legendary space stations that changed the course of nations, the other two being the Foundry and one unnamed space station that xenoformed planets.

 

As seen in the first Knights of the Old Republic, the Star Forge was destroyed by the end of the game, with most of the wreckage finding its way to Rakata Prime, also known as Lehon, the capital planet of the Infinite Empire.

 

The Foundry on the other hand, after having been appropriated by the Empire, was repurposed by the Schism Collective at the behest of Darth Malgus, the latter bent on using it to fuel his revolution to enforce change to the Empire. In the end, it shared the same fate as its sibling 300 years prior.

 

However, all things considered, there is the slight possibility that one of these legendary space stations still exists, somewhere, out there.

 

And with that, comes the weaving thread that connects them all: Revan.

 

It is time to go back to him.

 

- - - -

 

On Nar Shaddaa, in the Industrial Sector, Imperial characters have the opportunity to aid General Kolvin, of the Imperial Reclamation Service. He has a mission, one we can help him with: Infiltrate a compound left centuries ago by Revan, after he was reborn as a Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

Inside lies something of value to the Empire, namely the Infinite Engine. Assuming you already know all that, I'll fast-forward and get to the point. Also inside the compound is

, which one may assume was written before Malak betrayed him. In it, it reads the following:

 

Fools on both sides. All who thought the Star Forge a mere weapon, they didn't know. They never wanted to know.

 

It is the seed of worlds. Such power, even in a fragment...

 

A fleet, that's what I made of it. Almost laughable now. What of its smallest piece? It cannot build ships, no; What useless fragments does it generate?

 

Air. Life.

 

It feeds on the Force, on energy, on mass, on whatever you give it. And it creates. That is its nature.

 

It begins where we all began. A breath of air, a drop of water, the first chains of carbon.

 

Why bother with fleets, when one day we might build our own galaxies?

 

And now onto the next stage of my little tale or hypothesis...

 

After completing part two and three of Forged Alliances, Smugglers are privy to a couple of mails available here and here, respectively from Beryl Thorne and Master Sumalee. I shall quote only the sections that are of relevance:

 

In fact, I'm leaving for the Rishi Maze.

 

When you speak to the bird, it will be time.

 

The first one is no big secret. Checking its Legends section on Wookieepedia, it reads:

 

The Rishi Maze, formally known as Companion Aurek, was a dwarf satellite galaxy orbiting the galaxy. The satellite derived its name from the planet Rishi, the most popular starting location for hyperspace travel to the Rishi Maze.

 

The second one, as someone was kind enough to point out on Reddit, is probably an allusion to the winged native species on Rishi.

 

Rishi was a tropical planet in the Rishi system wich was located in the Outer Rim Territories. Rishi is the home of the Rishii. The Rishii are a winged species, wich lives in nests on the mountains of Rishi.

 

If you read this far, you're probably asking yourself: HOW IS THIS RELATED TO REVAN, YOU FOOL?

 

If I may be so bold, I ask you to indulge me for a bit longer, please.

 

- - - -

 

Do you know by any chance what a "dwarf galaxy" is? I didn't quite honestly and as such, I took a peak at it:

 

A dwarf galaxy is a small galaxy composed of up to several billion stars, a small number compared to our own Milky Way's 200–400 billion stars.

 

Further below:

 

Current theory states that most galaxies, including dwarf galaxies, form in association with dark matter or out of gas containing metals. However, NASA's Galaxy Evolution Explorer space probe identified new dwarf galaxies forming out of gases lacking metals. These galaxies were located in the Leo Ring, a cloud of hydrogen and helium around two massive galaxies in the constellation Leo.

 

Going back to the game, do you remember the

? Why he received such a harsh punishment?

 

I sought to dance among star temples and understand dark time. In truth, I remember little.

 

Would you still remember what Revan wrote down earlier in his

?

 

It is the seed of worlds.

 

What of its smallest piece?

 

What useless fragments does it generate?

 

Air. Life.

 

Why bother with fleets, when one day we might build our own galaxies?

 

Do you still remember what I said earlier, concerning the Star Forge and its siblings?

 

, the Star Forge was one of three legendary space stations that changed the course of nations, the other two being the Foundry and one unnamed space station that xenoformed planets.

 

However, all things considered, there is the slight possibility that one of these legendary space stations still exists, somewhere, out there.

 

Do you still have in mind what the Rishi Maze is?

 

The Rishi Maze, formally known as Companion Aurek, was a dwarf satellite galaxy orbiting the galaxy. The satellite derived its name from the planet Rishi, the most popular starting location for hyperspace travel to the Rishi Maze.

 

If you do, then onward.

 

- - - -

 

In Hinduism, there is a concept known as the "Trimūrti", further elaborated upon below:

 

The Trimūrti, Tri Murati or Trimurati, is a concept in Hinduism "in which the cosmic functions of creation, maintenance, and destruction are personified by the forms of Brahma the creator, Vishnu the maintainer or preserver and Shiva the destroyer or transformer." These three gods have been called "the Hindu triad" or the "Great Trinity", often addressed as "Brahma-Vishnu-Maheshwara." They are different forms of the One person called the Supreme Being or Svayam Bhagavan/Lord Krishna/Parabrahman.

 

On Rakata Prime, a towering statue of Revan has a plaque at its feet. It reads:

 

"Destroyer. Protector.

Twice he has come to our world.

One day he will return again."

--THE REVAN

 

, the plaque refers to him as "THE REVAN". Just as he returned "to our world" twice, he has taken on two roles, namely that of a Destroyer and Protector.

 

Maybe something else would be in wait around the corner.

 

- - - -

 

Now that I hope I've been able to convey where I'm coming from, this is what I'm trying to say:

 

I think the next logical step for Revan would be to take on the mantle of a Creator, after having been both Destroyer and Protector at different intervals. You may be asking: How do the Rakata factor in all this?

 

As implied above, it would seem the Rakatan Infinite Empire had at one point the technological prowess to create galaxies if need be.

 

His reference to "Dark Time"?

 

I believe he was actually referring to something akin to Dark Energy or Dark Matter, the former a key aspect in the Mass Effect series earlier on. In other words, it is possible he was punished for the fact he was trying to rise above his people and create a galaxy of his own.

 

I find your galaxy wanting. I choose to remake it and to give birth to a new Infinite Empire.

A bit of a stretch? Perhaps. Impossible? Not really.

 

, something to which Wookieepedia can attest, there was space station capable of xenoforming planets. Again, what would be the logical next step for said station?

 

Once more, remember the Rishi Maze? And the theoretical principle behind dwarf galaxies? Is it possible something like the Rishi Maze is the Infinite Empire crowning achievement? An entire new galaxy for them to submit, way, way further down the road? Is it possible Revan is following once again in their footsteps?

 

As someone once said:

 

Deviance! By definition, the Infinite Empire cannot "fall."

 

Plus, when you read something such as this:

 

Over twenty thousand years ago, the Rakata ruled an empire hundreds of worlds strong. They enslaved armies of lesser beings, but slavery and war were only incidental to the Rakata way of life. Their Infinite Empire was built on the promise that the Rakata could reshape existence to suit themselves–they would warp space, peer through time, create and destroy species at a whim. To humanoid minds, the Rakata of old were mad hedonists and philosophers without conscience. For all their arrogance and their eventual fall (and they did fall, in time, when their power mysteriously faded and their slaves revolted en masse), the Rakata were supreme at their peak. They effortlessly merged their strength in the Force with technological genius, creating nightmarish and brilliant devices. Their achievements may never be matched; perhaps this is for the best.

 

It doesn't seem that unlikely, does it?

 

For what is worth, I don't believe for one second what I wrote above is a possibility or even remotely close to what we're bound to get with 3.0 but it was fun writing it. I hope you enjoyed reading it.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Darkelefantos]

You forgot mentioning the technology that allows the Rakata to create exact replicas of existing planets (Belsavis) should they so desire.

 

That said, I find your theory of Revan sitting in a temple on Yavin to be less of a stretch than Revan creating new galaxies . Although Manaan was first hinted at through mail from the Forged Alliances storyline (i.e. Tai Cordan to the JC), so I wouldn't completely rule out Rishi becoming a thing in this game.

[Darth_Wicked]

You forgot mentioning the technology that allows the Rakata to create exact replicas of existing planets (Belsavis) should they so desire.

 

My first "draft" actually included that as well, plus the fact the Empire sought to "build" a second Belsavis further down the road according to Commander Vorel.

 

However, the final text is long enough as it is and I ended up cutting it.

 

That said, I find your theory of Revan sitting in a temple on Yavin to be less of a stretch than Revan creating new galaxies . Although Manaan was first hinted at through mail from the Forged Alliances storyline (i.e. Tai Cordan to the JC), so I wouldn't completely rule out Rishi becoming a thing in this game.

 

As I say at the end of the post, I really, really don't expect anything of the above to happen but again, it was fun writing it nonetheless.

 

EDIT:

 

It helps to pass the time between the now and until more details are revealed concerning 3.0.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[CrutchCricket]

I believe he was actually referring to something akin to Dark Energy or Dark Matter, the former a key aspect in the Mass Effect series

 

 

Uhm... so does this prove IT?

 

Sorry, the length of the post, the amount of speculation and the number of separate quoted things just... reminded me of something.

 

To respond to your ideas, uhm... maybe? Frankly I hope they don't go with something this convoluted. The exposition would be so poor in this format and I don't think it really fits the theme and feel of the game. What happened to simple Republic vs Empire, Jedi vs Sith? I feel like all endgame content just gets further and further from that. If we're talking about creating galaxies now, who even cares about the war, or even what the Emperor was up to?

[Darth_Wicked]

 

Uhm... so does this prove IT?

 

Sorry, the length of the post, the amount of speculation and the number of separate quoted things just... reminded me of something.

 

To respond to your ideas, uhm... maybe? Frankly I hope they don't go with something this convoluted. The exposition would be so poor in this format and I don't think it really fits the theme and feel of the game. What happened to simple Republic vs Empire, Jedi vs Sith? I feel like all endgame content just gets further and further from that. If we're talking about creating galaxies now, who even cares about the war, or even what the Emperor was up to?

 

I'd like to get to that eventually, seeing that I already had part of it covered as well. I just ended up removing most stuff pertaining the Emperor since the post was big enough as it is and wanted to focus mostly on both Revan and the Infinite Empire.

 

I may do a finale of sorts, assuming people would have the patience to indulge me.

[Darkelefantos]

 

Uhm... so does this prove IT?

 

Oh god, the memories of that thread on the Mass Effect board

[Darth_Wicked]

Oh god, the memories of that thread on the Mass Effect board

 

Are you referring to the one early one, when Mass Effect 2 was first released and there was the whole thing concerning Haestrom's sun or this pertaining Drew?

[MegatronShredder]

I was under the impression that there was a possibility that the Rakata had constructed multiple Star Forges, but I guess that was only wishful thinking on my part.

 

This theory is really good. I wonder how well this will predict the future content of the game.

[Darth_Wicked]

I was under the impression that there was a possibility that the Rakata had constructed multiple Star Forges, but I guess that was only wishful thinking on my part.

 

This theory is really good. I wonder how well this will predict the future content of the game.

 

They did.

 

I even bring that up in my post.

 

As you can see, Darth Malgus talks about three space stations, with Moff Phennir referring to them as the "Star Forges". Again, one of them is unaccounted for at the moment but that doesn't mean there aren't others Malgus knew nothing of.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Darkelefantos]

Are you referring to the one early one, when Mass Effect 2 was first released and there was the whole thing concerning Haestrom's sun or this pertaining Drew?

 

Neither. The thread about Indoctrination Theory (IT).

[Darth_Wicked]

Neither. The thread about Indoctrination Theory (IT).

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOO...!!!

 

I had completely forgotten about that. I hated it to such an insane degree.

[Darkelefantos]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO...!!!

 

I had completely forgotten about that. I hated it to such an insane degree.

 

Yup. It was... bad, to say the very least. How you could forget this is beyond me, it must be some sort of inner protection mechanism.

Seriously, the ME board was one of the worst places to be after people saw the ending.

[Darth_Wicked]

Yup. It was... bad, to say the very least. How you could forget this is beyond me, it must be some sort of inner protection mechanism.

Seriously, the ME board was one of the worst places to be after people saw the ending.

 

Indeed.

 

I can't honestly remember the last time I thought of the whole indoctrination theory and I have a fairly good memory. "Inner protection mechanism" sounds about right.

[CrutchCricket]

I'd like to get to that eventually, seeing that I already had part of it covered as well. I just ended up removing most stuff pertaining the Emperor since the post was big enough as it is and wanted to focus mostly on both Revan and the Infinite Empire.

 

I may do a finale of sorts, assuming people would have the patience to indulge me.

What I meant is, I think the story that is best served by the format of this game is the dregs and back and forth of a seemingly perpetual war between the Republic and the Empire. "A third threat greater than all of them" seems to be popping up every expansion and it's beginning to have the feel (and problems) of "the villain of the week" syndrome. Plus, using Revan again and all this Rakata stuff in particular is also getting a little comic bookish: "he's dead, but now he isn't! And he's got a ridiculously complex plan for doing something ludicrously grand and convoluted using unique, rare and crazy technology that's also quite abundant for some reason". Not that I don't appreciate that kind of stuff in the right place. But I don't think this medium and this story is the right place.

 

Plus we've got enough crazy stuff closer to home and already introduced, to tie off.

Schrodinger's Emperor (as much as it ***** on the Knight story), the Star Cabal (whether the remnants or to explain why the Agent with that much power still isn't able to do much with it and it) and so on. I'm sure I'm missing a few.

 

 

 

Yup. It was... bad, to say the very least. How you could forget this is beyond me, it must be some sort of inner protection mechanism.

Seriously, the ME board was one of the worst places to be after people saw the ending.

To be fair, the whole ME experience was one of the worst places to be after the ending. But yeah, some people really went crazy over there.

[MegatronShredder]

They did.

 

I even bring that up in my post.

 

As you can see, Darth Malgus talks about three space stations, with Moff Phennir referring to them as the "Star Forges". Again, one of them is unaccounted for at the moment but that doesn't mean there aren't others Malgus knew nothing of.

 

Oh, I meant more of the star forge that makes fleets of ships and droids using the dark force energies that it uses to power itself that was destroyed by the republic fleet.

[AshlaBoga]

I'd forgotten about the Rakatan Infinite Empire terraformer.

 

Also, I LOVED that Nar Shaddaa mission:D

[Darth_Wicked]

* snip *

 

Believe me... There's nothing I'd like more than to see Bioware pushing the envelope and make the war feel somehow relevant again.

 

I just don't think it will ever come to pass.

 

Until EA pulls the plug to this game, I think we're condemned to face ever emerging third factions which will slowly but surely wear down both the Republic and Empire. Every resource both factions manage to pull will be spent on fighting these would-be galactic powers, leaving no chance for the war to come into play again.

 

There will probably be minor skirmishes here and there but I really think we'll forever be stuck in this loop.

 

I'd forgotten about the Rakatan Infinite Empire terraformer.

 

Also, I LOVED that Nar Shaddaa mission:D

 

Same.

 

I like Imperial NS a lot to be honest, especially that bit in the Industrial Sector and even before, in the Duros sector, fighting the Flame and what not.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[MegatronShredder]

Was the Foundry constructed by the Rakata or was it something Revan designed based off the Star Forge because I remember that the Star Forge could make fleet of ships & make an army of droids. I had the idea that Revan made the Foundry or had something to do with it's construction if the information from the cut content of the HK Factory in KotOR II: The Sith Lords is taken as true that Revan made the factory for the HK-50s and possibly the HK-51s.

[Darth_Wicked]

Was the Foundry constructed by the Rakata or was it something Revan designed based off the Star Forge because I remember that the Star Forge could make fleet of ships & make an army of droids. I had the idea that Revan made the Foundry or had something to do with it's construction if the information from the cut content of the HK Factory in KotOR II: The Sith Lords is taken as true that Revan made the factory for the HK-50s and possibly the HK-51s.

 

[MegatronShredder]

 

Oh, okay so Revan designed the Extermination droids but not the foundry itself.

 

Anyone think there is a possibility that we might see a HK Factory or HKs used in "Revan's" army?

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2014 by MegatronShredder
Video Links and a typo

[Darth_Wicked]

Oh, okay so Revan designed the Extermination droids but not the foundry itself.

 

Anyone think there is a possibility that we might see a HK Factory or HKs used in "Revan's" army?

 

I doubt the factory would be mentioned but seeing a new wave of HK droids wouldn't surprise me,

[MegatronShredder]

Just added a couple of links to my previous post but I don't know how to quote it to include the links. XP

[ForceMasterer]

I think your idea of Revan creating a new galaxy would definitely be interesting. Honestly I hope he is truly part of something this epic. Of course his appearance in KOTOR 1&2 was of epic proportions and left everyone obsessed with him. The way that he was brought back then (for all we knew) killed off in SWTOR seemed like too much of a letdown. I was expecting something epic like Revan and the Jedi Knight joining together in the final battle of the Jedi Knight quest line. This theory would far surpass that in epic-ness, needless to say. Whatever they do, I just hope it's 1. epic and 2. not him getting killed off. Hopefully he's not a Sith again though. I liked him best when he was a follower of the light side, but didn't follow the Jedi Council.