Since we can't swap components once we're at the Ready Screen.........

[Karlbadmanners]

....how bout they let us slot a duplicate of any ship we have slotted. For example: Slot 1: S-13 Sting with X/Y/Z components and in Slot 2: S-13 Sting with A/B/C components, Slots 3-5: Whatever else. This seems like a totally reasonable work around to not being able to modify our component load-outs once we see the map type opponents ship choices. I know I'd much rather bring a Sting with my BLCs for Domination maps, and another Sting at the ready with my LLCs for Deathmatch maps.

 

 

What do you guys think?

[SammyGStatus]

....how bout they let us slot a duplicate of any ship we have slotted. For example: Slot 1: S-13 Sting with X/Y/Z components and in Slot 2: S-13 Sting with A/B/C components, Slots 3-5: Whatever else. This seems like a totally reasonable work around to not being able to modify our component load-outs once we see the map type opponents ship choices. I know I'd much rather bring a Sting with my BLCs for Domination maps, and another Sting at the ready with my LLCs for Deathmatch maps.

 

 

What do you guys think?

 

Purchase a cartel ship. You can have two different load outs specifically for that purpose.

[Ryuku-sama]

Purchase a cartel ship. You can have two different load outs specifically for that purpose.

 

But I want 5 Novadive!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Verain]

As pointed out, it's definitely intended that you have to spend your hangar slots like this. It's also a big perk of getting all the ships.

 

I would be very opposed to anything that was such a massive nerf to cartel ships, and also opposed to anything that lets players slot out multiple copies of already cheesy ships with 0 effort expended.

 

 

Poor idea all around.

[Verain]

What we should at least get, is the ability to upgrade and edit ships NOT queued up.

 

But what we should REALLY get is the ability to constantly switch and change components until the MOMENT the queue pops as ready. It is only then that you could possibly learn who you are up against and take advantage.

 

 

The claim that it is for matchmaking is obviously silly. Just the other day I queued solo, on a character with multiple completed* ships (and EVERY ship mastered**, including cartel ships), and got slotted next to a four man premade, all of whom also have all mastered ships. Another solo guy with five ships and two-four mastered was next to us.

 

The enemy team was all two shippers.

 

 

It was a wargame.

 

 

 

So whatever matchmaking is buying, it isn't much, but what this "feature" is costing me is the ability to edit and diddle around with my ships during the time that this matters. I don't want to edit the ships when I have to run to work, I can't edit them in queue, which is five seconds to twenty minutes, I can't edit them in game, I can't edit them after a game but before the next because I'll cost my group their queue spot and we might miss a game, and and after editing a ship you normally want to play to try it out, which you can't do, because you just stopped playing for the night.

 

 

 

 

Lots of annoyance spent, zero anything gained.

 

 

 

 

*A "complete" ship has EVERY available component purchased. If there is NOTHING you can spend ship requisition on on your ship, it is "complete". If there's anything left to buy (ex: weapon power converter, regenerative reactor), even if you don't intend to buy or use it, your ship is not complete.

 

**A "mastered" ship has at least one component mastered in every slot- 150k requisition or so. This does not refered to the "counts as mastered" silver mastery that cartel ships come with, which ultimately ends up saving you about 13k req earned, at most. Really actually mastered.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Verain

[Karlbadmanners]

*Golfclap*

[Karlbadmanners]

Thanks for going on a completely side-track diatribe of your own and then dismissing my idea without any further discussion as a 'poor idea all around', really classy way to respond to someone, disagreeing is all well and good when you actually talk about why you do, and can manage not to come across as having the tactfulness of a **** habilis Edited September 14, 2014 by Karlbadmanners

[Verain]

I dismissed your poor idea as a poor idea, *then* talked about how the actual concern should be fixed. Order matters!

[Karlbadmanners]

Noooo! My refutation, turned to dust in the blink of an eye!!!

[Verain]

I'll go into a bit more detail, since you sorta asked.

 

....how bout they let us slot a duplicate of any ship we have slotted.

 

So, here's my reasons why this is not the way to solve the problem.

 

1- This would represent a pretty big buff in player power, mostly aimed at veterans.

This isn't a reason to dismiss an idea, but the idea needs to be cool enough to get over this speed bump. If your idea will help people who are amazing at the cost of those who are fresh, in a game where about a quarter of the threads are about this very issue, I think it would need to be a home run to be a good idea.

 

2- This would reduce play depth.

The meta would definitely shrink a bit. Many of the ships have multiple viable builds, and choosing betwixt them is a pretty big choice. Gaining the play experience of having the perfect sting for each occasion is solid and cool, but should your enemies have to fly against Sting Squadron?

 

3- Encourages players to tunnel a ship...

It's easier to play a good ship than a bad one, and if you have a ship that has 50k req, it's much easier to play that one than one with 10k req, and if you have a mastered ship it's much easier (and you gain more ship req) to just play that one than to switch to a lesser ship that has less everything. By allowing players to queue multiple copies, they would be encouraging this a LOT- you greatly ramp the rewards for continuing to gear your already mastered ship, by basically getting free copies of it that are gearing rapidly and easily. The game has a lot of "identity politics" for a game that lets you queue five ships at the same time. I mean, we already see whole game modes that a build (or even a ship) can be very bad at, so the game should encourage more diversity here, not less.

 

 

4- Specifically YOUR ship (battlescout)...

In the olden days I would spend a lot of my time on these forums being very attackyface towards "the battle scout class forums". This hasn't been a very big issue for awhile- but the fact remains- the battle scout's extreme power at its role, dogfighting, has made it a darling to MANY players, who were seeking a ship that would respond to their commands precisely, allow you to evade most enemy attacks with exceptional flying and skill (the skill delta between you and your opponent is a big determiner of damage taken, moreso than some of the other ships). Additionally, many players came here to dogfight, or enjoy burst damage, as these are effective in general and VERY effective at some play actions that are often popular. I have no doubt that many players would queue nothing but 5x Sting, vastly moreso than those that would queue 5x Pike, a ship that in theory has a similar number of viable builds.

BLC/Cluster/TT/Disto/Retro

BLC/Pods/TT/Disto/Barrel

BLC/Cluster/BO/Disto/Barrel

Quads/Pods/TT/Disto/Dive

BLC/Cluster/BR/Disto/Dive

This is a lot of ships out of a relatively few components (BLC, Quads, Cluster, Pods, BO/TT/BR, Barrel/Retro/Dive, Disto). Any of these builds is better than MOST ships in the game already.

 

 

5- This ramps up the value of the hangar slots.

While the devs have no intention of growing the hangar, this change would make any future expansion VERY good indeed. Right now a seven ship hangar would gain you some amount of utility. That amount would be vastly enhanced should you gain the abiilty to do this.

 

 

6- This tanks the cartel ships.

Cartel ships offer a minor amount of player power in exchange for real dollars. A lot of ideas are pretty passive aggressively aimed at these ships. The idea "just happens" to eliminate any vestigial utility that the cartel ships have, and the moment someone points this out IT'S A TRAP and suddenly the thread is some screaming tantrum against "pay to win" (which by NO definition is this game).

The idea you specifically pointed out- the ability to queue TWO type 2 scouts- is already in the game. You can run an IL-5 (Ocula/Skybolt), which appears on the GTN and can also be bought with real dollars. You do have to req this guy up from scratch, which is one of the two reasons you don't see more players doing this (the other reason is that he's kind of an ugly ship to start with). Most players don't want to req up the second identical ship on that character, and most don't, but your idea would give EVERYONE this for FREE- and, just coincidentally, take away the one actual gameplay reason to ever own one of these ships.

 

 

 

So those are my reasons, and I suggested instead what would be a nicer way of handling the inability to dink with ships during queue, mostly which comes down to "let us do that instead of not, seriously".

 

 

 

In the meantime, I would suggest:

 

1- Get an IL-5. This will let you get what you want, and you'll have earned it by putting req on the ship, and have something that most players don't- the ability to choose betwixt your favorite battle scout style.

2- Consider looking into other cartel ships. The type 1 gunship clone is definitely weaker (you can't tell which weapon is active), but it is nice to switch out the barrel roll speed <-> turning, and also the slug and ion talents each have a variable you might want to look at. The type 2 bomber is a nice deal as well, allowing for a close range and long range pair.

3- Consider a type 1 scout instead of a type 2 scout. The type 2 is a better ship, but the things the type 1 are better at are pretty pleasing.

[LilSaihah]

I might be okay with it if you can't change between loadouts in the middle of the match.

 

Say, you have Sting A and Sting B. Once you spawn in on Sting A, you can't spawn Sting B at any point in the match.

 

Also on cartel ships being a workaround the current system: I think running Sting + Ocula (and other Cartel ships, though this is the most egregious) just so you can run two of the same ship is dumb. You could make a case that it's P2W. I think the difference should just be a cosmetic one.

 

Two other things I would really really like:

Deslotting a ship doesn't reset its component upgrades. So often I've fiddled around with components on my T3 scout and entered a match with the wrong Disto and Interdiction upgrades.

Ship "loadouts" so you can swap between, for example, a sprinter Blackbolt and an EMP blackbolt with one button. Not in the middle of the match, but outside of the match, just so that you can very quickly change your loadouts between queue. Possibly even save entire ship lineups so you can have your mercy shipline and your gameface shipline.

Edited September 15, 2014 by LilSaihah

[Verain]

Also on cartel ships being a workaround the current system: I think running Sting + Ocula (and other Cartel ships, though this is the most egregious) just so you can run two of the same ship is dumb.

 

So you don't have a problem with it? You don't do it yourself, right?

 

You could make a case that it's P2W.

 

Whoa, wait, no! You think it's too powerful!

 

I think the difference should just be a cosmetic one.

 

So you posted to ask that Cartel ships be nerfed from their intended performance on live. That's a real shame. It's definitely not pay to win, given that you can get these ships from the GTN, and to even appreciate these supposed advantages you need to level two whole ships.

 

In any event, you believe that the one non-cosmetic feature of the existing ships- notably, the ability to run two of them- should be removed, because... no reason, you just hate cartel ships.

 

 

Sad.

[Karlbadmanners]

Excellent response to my post Verain, I really appreciate you breaking it down for me. I do agree with you for the most part, and really the whole point of my post was to see what others thought about the idea so I got the feedback I needed

[LilSaihah]

So you don't have a problem with it? You don't do it yourself, right?

 

No, I don't do it. I try my best not to be a hypocrite.

I think it's dumb from a game design standpoint, not from a player standpoint.

 

Whoa, wait, no! You think it's too powerful!

 

I think there are larger balancing concerns, but this is a minor one that annoys me.

 

So you posted to ask that Cartel ships be nerfed from their intended performance on live. That's a real shame. It's definitely not pay to win, given that you can get these ships from the GTN, and to even appreciate these supposed advantages you need to level two whole ships.

 

I did not request any change of this kind. I posted my opinion. If my post was unclear in this regard, I apologize.

It seems I don't define pay-to-win in the same way as you do. As the item does enter the economy as a result of Cartel Market action (as opposed to play)- and it does grant an advantage over players without the item- I'd say it's pay-to-win.

How much effort you need to put into actualizing your advantage is irrelevant; you do ultimately end up with an advantage.

 

In any event, you believe that the one non-cosmetic feature of the existing ships- notably, the ability to run two of them- should be removed, because... no reason, you just hate cartel ships.

 

If it wasn't clear in the context of the rest of my post; I don't like having two loadouts of identical ships as an option. There is an opportunity cost involved in building a ship in a particular way. CC ships circumvent that rule, and I don't think they should.

If it is going to be an option, I would rather it not be locked behind items entering the economy through the Cartel Market.

 

Sad.

 

The theatrics aren't necessary. If you want a discussion, or for me to clarify my point of view, I'm happy to accommodate, but I'm not very interested in talking with you if you're going to continue peppering your posts with gems like this.

[nyghtrunner]

It's slightly off topic, and probably not what people are talking about, but I wish there was a way to "downgrade". I've actually contemplated buying the cartel battle scout just so I can start back at square 1 (or close to it) when I see the enemies of a match. If it's a bunch of 2-shippers, I feel like it's overkill to take my completed Sting/Flashfire out there, even though it's the ship I enjoy flying the most. And on some of my alts, I'm getting to the point where I don't really have a "downgraded" option available that I enjoy flying. I'm left with flying things like Gunships or Bombers, both of which tend to have a bit of a reputation as being "unfair" (I don't care, myself, but it's the optics at this point. My bombers and gunships are usually the least upgraded, and I'm not very good in their cockpits, so it's actually trying to nerf myself... But it won't look that way). Or I'm rolling out a mastered or completed build of a ship I enjoy flying, and feel like it's wrong to keep my foot on the gas.

 

A couple people on my server have started toons that run stock ships (or maybe L0 upgrades so they can swap components?) for this reason, but then they run into a premade or something, and don't have an option to step up to a similar component level, and have to go against a premade of named pilots in mastered ships in their stock rycer/blackbolt. That can be fun, but can also be frustrating if you're getting rolled, and start thinking about "what if I could ignore the armor on the stupid turrets? Would that change the outcome?"...

 

Rather than having the option to have multiple loadouts of the same ship, I'd prefer an option to strip the ship of all the upgrades. Paying money to buy a cartel ship to use as a "downgrade" seems counterintuitive. Even if it's only between matches, I could rig up a happy medium of a mastered ship I enjoy for "real" matches, and an unupgraded rinky-dinker that I like to fly for the matches I get matched up against newblets. But the only way I know of to "downgrade" is to swap to a component with no upgrades, which on completed ships, isn't even an option.

 

So rather than the OPs suggestion, I'd prefer being able to set the level upgrade of my components.

 

Getting into swapping components on the match screen is getting into the same issue that could pop up in the 4-man PVP matches, where someone could respec heals waiting for the match to start after seeing the makeup of the opposing team. Insofar as that's concerned, you go to war with the resources you have in place applies.

 

I'd also not be surprised if I'm in the minority on wanting a way to downgrade, but it's definitely something I've wanted for a short while now.