Sents: Underpowered and squishy? We playing the same game?

[Lord_Lunacy]

31 is where I had my issues with the sentinel, Alderaan specifically. No patience leveling a headache ultramicromanage class, so on to something else. Edited January 3, 2012 by Lord_Lunacy

[wcucarter]

I just hit 50 tonight and I must say I didn't really have a problem with anything levelling from 10-50 as combat spec. One of my favorite moments on the journey to 50 was a huge battle that I had with an elite mob on Hoth that was 4 levels higher than me. He killed me, but must have had 2 hp left. I got so much confidence from that fight and didn't hesitate to jump head first into a battle from there on out. I routinely finish solo quest boss battles with more than 75% health. I don't know what to say to the folks that are struggling, but it IS doable. I haven't pvp'd hardly any, so I can't really speak on that situation. Edited January 3, 2012 by wcucarter

[Losikar]

LV 35 here, yeah i've had some issues, but usually because of not paying attention to CD, or most case scenarios i get a major i hit the button for x ability and nothing happens (think it's bugged) and mash on the x button till it actually goes. I know from 24 to 30 i kept a stash of med packs handy for elite/champion/bosses. Also I'm combat spec. I'm in no way saying I'm awesome at it, but I haven't had multiple deaths over and over again either.

 

I realize the mistake and i corrected, have to be more focused on what your doing and what the NPC's are doing.

[Vibeth]

Ok, I've done a lot of reading on "Sent is ok/underpowered" topic, but I seriously doubt this is only a L2P issue.

 

What I would like to see is both sides (people who had problems leveling and people who say it was fine to level) post their build (or which tree they took) and which companion they used for most encounters.

I think that would help clear this thing a bit, I believe this is more of a build/companion issue.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Vibeth

[PinnyFox]

Ok, I've done a lot of reading on "Sent is ok/underpowered" topic, but I seriously doubt this is only a L2P issue.

 

What I would like to see is both sides (people who had problems leveling and people who say it was fine to level) post their build (or which tree they took) and which companion they used for most encounters.

I think that would help clear this thing a bit, I believe this is more of a build/companion issue.

 

Sure, why not. I'm currently only level 21 on my sentinel, but I've had no problems leveling. Here's what I am so far: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbk.1

 

Planning this when I reach 50: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbRrRMfGzZhMMz.1

 

I'm using Kira as my companion.

 

What am I doing so far? It depends on the encounter. If it's just a group of 3 enemies, I target the guy with the most people around him (because at this point groups are usually two enemies close together, with the third off on their own), force leap to him, force sweep, then I pick a target and Zealous Strike for focus, then I more or less Blade Rush/Slash everything to death. I also use force kick any time I see one trying to cast a skill.

 

Against a group of 1 strong and 1-2 normals, I use Rebuke BEFORE entering combat, I force leap to the strong, then in mid-leap I use Overload Saber, then I zealous strike, cauterize, slash, then master strike. At this point, the strong enemy is dead, or close to it, in which case my strategy becomes the same as above.

 

Against an elite: Rebuke before combat, force leap in, overload saber mid leap, zealous strike, saber ward when I start being attacked, cauterize, slash. If I have Zen ready, I use it before entering combat along with rebuke so when I get all my burns in I get a small burst of health. Then I fight the same way as with a strong. After my burns are up, I use master strike, blade storm, slash. When overload saber comes off CD, I repeat, though at this point the elite is pretty much dead.

 

With champions, I'd probably do the same as I do with elites.

 

 

I'm also biochem/bioanalysis/diplomacy, and I made myself the reusable medpack that heals up to 1000 HP, and the reusable battle stim, which gives +16 str and +6 power. I keep the stim up 24/7. And of course I plan to upgrade my reusable medpack/stims when I can.

 

 

Yes, I'm only level 21 right now, but I don't see my strategy changing, even when I get new abilities. Sure, I'll add them into how I fight, but I don't see any radical changes to my fighting. The only thing that -might- bug people is that I have to rest every 1-3 fights, but to be perfectly honest I don't mind, since every class was given a self heal for a reason.

Edited January 3, 2012 by PinnyFox

[SunwindIon]

I think i've discovered the sentinel problem: we are very gear dependant.

 

I used to think we were underpowered and squishy, but now i'm doing things like this every time I PVP and I constantly take on groups of enemies and win etc, we can be very tough to kill.

 

anyway, just gear up a bit and you'll see that we scale really well with gear.

Edited January 3, 2012 by SunwindIon

[Urza]

Personally, through my 47 levels of playing a Combat specced Sentinel, here is my opinion:

 

I used T7 until I got Kira, who I pretty much used until I picked up Doc. During that period I didn't have much of a problem with leveling. I could complete all my quests, kill what needed to be killed, and occasionally I'd make some mistakes that would get me killed a few times (always came back and gave it a fresh start with all the cooldowns refreshed and won).

 

I did have trouble against the boss at the end of Chapter 1, I believe I died around 3-4 times before altering my tactics and succeeding against him with very little life left.

 

I also had trouble against the Elites you fight during the Interlude between Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. After dying a few times in a row, I grew frustrated and simply stopped, went to the next planet, leveled around 3 levels and completed it with less difficulty at that point.

 

I also had trouble with an encounter sometime post-Hoth with a boss who had several pets with it. I tried to take aggro and down all the pets before taking on the boss but found it a little hard to do. The issue was that Doc would pull the main boss aggro while I was working on the adds. I don't quite remember what I did there, but I'm fairly certain I either did it slightly differently, or I left and leveled a couple times before attempting it again.

 

That's pretty much the only pvp issues i've had. I have run one FP which I was a couple levels high for but did enough dps to complete the Mando FP after I replaced a guy around 8 levels lower than me. No serious aggro issues there.

 

I am Valor rank 21 for whatever that is worth (I consider myself a pretty average pvp player, by no means a good one). In pvp I notice that I have trouble really only against Smugglers and Agents (I can beat them one on one if they are played by average or below average people). Their cover prevents cap closing abilities and their CC (I think that's their CC move) kicks me away and roots me where they spam snipe until I'm at unsustainable health levels. I am not specced with more that one CC-breaking move (although I could with 2 of my last three spec points).

 

I seem to average 100k-150k damage in most Warzones, with kills ranging around 15-20 with my highest DPS being just shy of 200 per second and highest number of kills at 35. I will admit though, I tend to aim for the weakest member of the group in pvp whether that be lowest leveled or people with the lowest health at the moment (I mainly focus on killing people so that we maximize time with a manpower advantage).

 

I do notice that Bounty Hunters regularly put up absurdly higher numbers than myself, with some hitting my bests much more frequently than myself. But I've also seen a lot of bad Bounty Hunters or people who just seem to spam that stupid fire spray move which is easily interrupted.

 

I am wearing all the level 40 pvp gear with some upgrades in items or mods here and there, I don't know my rotation because it's not particularly memorable but it makes heavy use of all the key abilities. I don't have a mouse at the moment, so I've only been using two bars worth of skills, and half of that is normal stuff that I don't use in combat (quick travel, mount, etc for example). Statistically I'm around 23% crit chance, 11k health, and 99% accuracy.

 

I don't know if you call it underpowered or not, I am not quite sure how attuned the bosses and such are for Sentinels. I assume that the devs have datapoints on this and figured it wasn't much of a problem in testing. It really wasn't a serious issue for me. I have noticed that my level 50 friend had an issue with one of the bosses of his story on Corellia, so I think the issue is just certain ACs being harder than others in certain aspects.

 

I do feel like the bosses challenge you every once in a while to learn something you can already do (but don't realize it). For example, learning to kick in order to defeat a certain boss who would kill me with his casting was extremely important. It felt like Bioware had the story challenging me so that I would try a few different things and learn something when I completed it. Since then I've expanded it to using it frequently in pvp which I likely wouldn't had a certain boss not forced me to.

 

But I admit the pve side of the game got a decent chunk easier when I got Doc, so maybe that says something.

[Etayne]

I don't understand the mentality behind these complaints. When I first started Sentinel in the Beta I was having difficulty keeping up with friends playing other classes. Instead of worrying about how other classes positives at that level were better I decided that I wasn't specced properly for what I wanted to be able to do with my character. So the answer was regear and respec. I have now, on several occasions, taken a skill - then found it lacking so went back to eliminate it from my tree. The same can also be said of training certain tactics then not liking the damage output or time constraint, while unfortunately you can't get credits back for a skill, just because you paid for it doesn't necessarily mean you have to use it.

 

I, personally, have found that Focus (with splashes) is the tree I prefer and seems to be the highest damage dealing tree available. However I'm only at level 32 atm and could find in a level or two that my DO is not as high as someone specced differently.

 

The thing to remeber is that EVERY class has to swap gear and since this game is so new, there aren't many, if any, true guides as to how to master a class perfectly on your first attempt. I don't like using a guide because I feel that it takes away from the experience of designing a character and playing that character to it's full potential, but I realize that not every gamer feels the same way. In that case I suggest that people that are unsatisfied with Sent, search the forums and google to see if they can find a better build, or perhaps try (what they think) is an easier class.

 

My only grief with SWTOR so far is that even though I'm only level 32 so far I haven't been able to change up my gear very quickly. I'm currently sporting 5 Purple Clothing Items and both sabers are orange but have been modded with purple mods so almost every quest reward (gearwise) falls WAY below what I have currently equipped. I'm not sure if it is because I do the flashpoints, and heroics or if it is a result of my slicing/treasure hunting skills. I honestly can't remember exactly where I picked up my gear but to date I have yet to purchase anything on the auction house.

[PinnyFox]

 

My only grief with SWTOR so far is that even though I'm only level 32 so far I haven't been able to change up my gear very quickly. I'm currently sporting 5 Purple Clothing Items and both sabers are orange but have been modded with purple mods so almost every quest reward (gearwise) falls WAY below what I have currently equipped. I'm not sure if it is because I do the flashpoints, and heroics or if it is a result of my slicing/treasure hunting skills. I honestly can't remember exactly where I picked up my gear but to date I have yet to purchase anything on the auction house.

 

That's kind of the point, really. Oranges are suppose to be a completely different gear set than green/blue/purples. If you have an orange item with up to date blue mods (from commendations or otherwise) it's going to be leagues better than any quest reward or blue drop you find. Orange item is starting to become worse than your quest rewards or items you're finding? Time for an upgrade!

 

And the gap between orange and green/blue/purple items becomes even bigger if you're slotting the orange with PURPLE mods. Then you can probably go even longer without swapping mods than you could if you just used commendations.

 

The way I see it, oranges are used for the people who like keeping a certain piece of gear forever, since they can change mods. It does mean that suddenly quest rewards appear to become garbage, but in that case just pick the commendation: Which is your true quest reward because it allows you to continue upgrading your mods.

[thanealpha]

The only mobs that survive two rounds of overload saber are boss level.

 

So you're using watchman? Combat isn't as powerful...yeah I've tried both...Combat is SEVERELY lacking.

 

Seriously people, upgrade your (and your companions) terrible greens, read your skills and l2 use defensive cooldowns and you'll be fine.

 

Of COURSE you'll be fine if you do those things, PvE in this game is EASY. PvE in EVERY game is EASY these days. The public wouldn't pay for anything really challenging.

 

I think the point that is being made, and the point I agree with, and the point you seem to be missing is OTHER classes DO NOT NEED to do those things.

 

In PvP this becomes very apparent when facing off with an equally skilled opponent.

 

Knights (in particular Sents) have less effective CC in PvP.

Sents (in particular Combat) HAVE to start with defensive skills...this means at LEAST 1.5 seconds of GCD before any damage is done to our opponents...up to 6 seconds depending on what skills you're playing out there to be defensive are being wasted being defensive. Other classes do not need to do this.

 

Add in those lost seconds with the fact that we start with ZERO focus and need to build to then start to deal real damage (again unlike other classes) and we're at an even greater disadvantage.

 

Those lost 3-12 seconds while we enagage, defense, build are a VERY large issue when facing opponents who have no such issues, greater CC options, and often greater mobility options. AND can attack from range.

 

The issue is with Sents that our trees look like this:

 

Damage/Damage/Damage

 

We have NO functional off spec to help us out. So we see issues with battlefield medals, because we aren't ranking up heals/defender/protection medals along with our dps like other classes. Our AoE options are very limited relative to many classes so the big big damage numbers are really not as common from Sents. And our survivability is CONTRARY to what we DO do well out there which is damage. Wasted GCD cycles trying to stay alive instead of dealing damage.

 

We should be OBLITERATING our opponents if/when we can successfully stay within melee range. Instead we barely do more damage than others who are not bound by needing to be in close and tight to their opponents. In fact, often less.

 

---

 

Can we do fine in PvE? Absolutely.

Can we do fine in PvP? Absolutely.

 

Are we weaker than many, if not most, of the other classes? IMHO yes.