EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I've never once said I believed the earth was flat. So idk what you're trying to prove. Page 12, Bottom of the Page. And if you read my post above I have already proven that you are a "flat earth believer". I am not saying you literally think the earth is flat. I'm saying you're the kind of person who would think those things to be true, because I have given you clear evidence and you still refuse to accept it. Edited November 10, 2014 by EvenHardNiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 You can't prove I'm wrong either... the fact is, you don't see a problem with ripping off other humans. Good for you, go have a cookie... There is no ripping off because the information on the GTN is right there, clear as day. Please tell me where you're being ripped off because you can't possibly be ripped off when the information is available to you to make an informed purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Why are you digging this crap up now?! Its already been put to rest! Clearly it hasn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's against the TOS, it's trickery and deceit. It is interfering with users enjoyment of the game when players intentionally put up prices and put up the numbers in a way that it tricks players into buying these items. I have given you clear evidence and still you refuse to accept the black and white evidence for this. You cannot prove what a seller's intent is. That's pure speculation at best since a seller can list any item they want for any price. There is no trickery or deceit going on, so it's not against the TOS. The only thing on the GTN is straightforward information about the item you are going to buy, you cannot be scammed. And if you read my post above I have already proven that you are a "flat earth believer". I am not saying you literally think the earth is flat. I'm saying you're the kind of person who would think those things to be true, because I have given you clear evidence and you still refuse to accept it. You have yet to give me clear evidence that there's a scam going on, only paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 multiple posts does not equal a big problem though. Its only one or two people posting about this over and over again and it has generated a bit of debate as to the veracity of the argument. I really dont think more than a handful of people are ever "affected". Most people who make a mistake on the gtn probably dont blame anyone but themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) You cannot prove what a seller's intent is. That's pure speculation at best since a seller can list any item they want for any price. There is no trickery or deceit going on, so it's not against the TOS. The only thing on the GTN is straightforward information about the item you are going to buy, you cannot be scammed. You have yet to give me clear evidence that there's a scam going on, only paranoia. It's against the TOS, I have clearly listed parts of the TOS which show that this kind of behavior, tricking and misleading players (deliberately putting a certain price on the GTN to make it look like a lower price) is against the rules because it interferes with users enjoyment of the game. There is evidence with the sellers intent when they sell many of the same item for a ridiculously high price, it's highly likely they are doing this to trick and mislead other players and exploit the GTN. Are you denying the pure evidence I have shown to you? Are you really that desperate? Edited November 10, 2014 by EvenHardNiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 There is no ripping off because the information on the GTN is right there, clear as day. Please tell me where you're being ripped off because you can't possibly be ripped off when the information is available to you to make an informed purchase. I did, you chose not to listen... I can't help you if you won't pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I did, you chose not to listen... I can't help you if you won't pay attention. He is wrong. He has been proven wrong, he is just desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's against the TOS, I have clearly listed parts of the TOS which show that this kind of behavior, tricking and misleading players (deliberately putting a certain price on the GTN to make it look like a lower price) is against the rules because it interferes with users enjoyment of the game. Are you denying the pure evidence I have shown to you? Are you really that desperate? Where is this magical rule that states you have to price an item at a certain price? You are being Paranoid because someone listed a item at a price you didn't like but bought anyways. You didn't have to pay that price but you did. The seller is justified in listing any item he wants at any price he wants and BW will fully support him on this matter. There is no deceit or trickery going on that you can prove other than speculation and paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I did, you chose not to listen... I can't help you if you won't pay attention. All you guys did was bring up morals and immorals which are irrelevant to the matter at hand since you cannot be scammed on the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 All you guys did was bring up morals and immorals which are irrelevant to the matter at hand since you cannot be scammed on the GTN. Ahh, you missed it then... It is in there, it has been shown to you... go back and reread it if you like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) It's not really a scam. It's unethical to say the least, but hardly a scam. It relies on the victim not paying attention to what they are doing, but they are not actually breaking any rules. It's kind of like the change raising scam. (which is indeed illegal, but that's besides the point here) Now, if this was being done in real life, then it probably would be considered illegal. But so would 90% of the stuff we do in-game, so that's a moot point. In this case, nobody is losing any real currency, so at best it's unethical. And if BW were to do anything about it, it wouldn't be banning people for trying it, but rather changing the GTN system to make it harder to do this. (Oh and btw. I did lose nearly 10 million to this "scam" one late and tired night, so it's not like I don't have sympathy for anyone who falls for it) Edited November 10, 2014 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Where is this magical rule that states you have to price an item at a certain price? You are being Paranoid because someone listed a item at a price you didn't like but bought anyways. You didn't have to pay that price but you did. The seller is justified in listing any item he wants at any price he wants and BW will fully support him on this matter. There is no deceit or trickery going on that you can prove other than speculation and paranoia. The rule is in the TOS, where it says you can't interfere with other users enjoyment of the game. Deliberately exploiting the GTN by putting up high prices to make it look like lower prices in the hope that someone will be tricked into buying the item, is against the rules, because it is tricking and misleading the buyer. You claim it's paranoia. This is evidence which shows you are getting desperate, because you have lost the argument long ago. I don't see why you're continuing. Oh, I know why, you're desperate. You simply cannot admit that you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Ahh, you missed it then... It is in there, it has been shown to you... go back and reread it if you like... Shure give me the page number I will gladly re-read your posts where you've failed to prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's unethical to say the least, In this case, nobody is losing any real currency, so at best it's unethical. And if BW were to do anything about it, it wouldn't be banning people for trying it, but rather changing the GTN system to make it harder to do this. Exactly. Unethical = interfering with users enjoyment of the game. And that is against the TOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Great, Oddball. Now you too have joined the Flat Earth Society! You get a choice of cookie, pie, or ... DEATH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The rule is in the TOS, where it says you can't interfere with other users enjoyment of the game. Deliberately exploiting the GTN by putting up high prices to make it look like lower prices in the hope that someone will be tricked into buying the item, is against the rules, because it is tricking and misleading the buyer. You claim it's paranoia. This is evidence which shows you are getting desperate, because you have lost the argument long ago. I don't see why you're continuing. Oh, I know why, you're desperate. You simply cannot admit that you are wrong. But it's not interfering with other user's enjoyment of the game. They arn't being forced to buy the seller's item. If they were being forced to buy it, it would be a different story. But a seller can list any item they want for any price and a buyer can choose whether or not to buy said item. No scam, no trickery, no deceit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Great, Oddball. Now you too have joined the Flat Earth Society! You get a choice of cookie, pie, or ... DEATH! Cake would be a choice but I ate all the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) But it's not interfering with other user's enjoyment of the game. They arn't being forced to buy the seller's item. If they were being forced to buy it, it would be a different story. But a seller can list any item they want for any price and a buyer can choose whether or not to buy said item. No scam, no trickery, no deceit. They are interfering with other users enjoyment of the game. They were tricked and deceived into buying items because of the way the numbers were displayed on the GTN, by sellers who deliberately put these numbers to make it look like a lower price. It is simply against the TOS because it interferes with other users enjoyment of the game. Still you are denying evidence. Edited November 10, 2014 by EvenHardNiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 In fact it is trickery. There is no specific rule but it's against the TOS. Please just accept you're wrong so we can end this silly discussion. It's trickery and misleading plain and simple. It's trickery... sure. So are magic shows, and people pay to watch those. In fact, you could say that all magic shows are scams to trick people out of their money and that it's immoral to do so. Still doesn't make it illegal. And where exactly is this against the ToS? Feel free to point out exactly how this violates the ToS? Becasue I've looked and I can't find anything. I looked in the rules of conduct too and found nothing. So please, enlighten us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Exactly. Unethical = interfering with users enjoyment of the game. And that is against the TOS. No, you allege it is against the 'Rules of Conduct.' Not the 'Terms of Service.' Do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic and using the Service in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of EA in maintaining the Service for the enjoyment of all its users. And then only by a great big stretch whereby this is actually a scam and not just people being jerks. And where Bioware agrees with you that the confirmation dialog box is, in fact, not sufficient for you to see what it is in fact you are paying. It is painfully apparent that you do not agree that is the case and the rest of us agree that short of Bioware calling to ask you if you really want to buy that ... there isn't anything else that needs to be done. No question of ethics or morality or legality. Just plain old, 'pay more attention.' Rules of Conduct Edited November 10, 2014 by thewitchdoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 They are interfering with other users enjoyment of the game. They were tricked and deceived into buying items because of the way the numbers were displayed on the GTN, by sellers who deliberately put these numbers to make it look like a lower price. It is simply against the TOS because it interferes with other users enjoyment of the game. Still you are denying evidence. Since you ignored the post you quoted I'll post it again for you to try and understand. But it's not interfering with other user's enjoyment of the game. They arn't being forced to buy the seller's item. If they were being forced to buy it, it would be a different story. But a seller can list any item they want for any price and a buyer can choose whether or not to buy said item. No scam, no trickery, no deceit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) And where exactly is this against the ToS? Feel free to point out exactly how this violates the ToS? Becasue I've looked and I can't find anything. I looked in the rules of conduct too and found nothing. So please, enlighten us. I shall quote it again. To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior: Do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic and using the Service in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of EA in maintaining the Service for the enjoyment of all its users. Tricking users by deliberately putting high prices and making it look like lower prices on the GTN because of the way the numbers are displayed is against the TOS because if a user is tricked into buying that item, it interferes with their enjoyment of the game. Checkmate. Edited November 10, 2014 by EvenHardNiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) The rule is in the TOS, where it says you can't interfere with other users enjoyment of the game. Deliberately exploiting the GTN by putting up high prices to make it look like lower prices in the hope that someone will be tricked into buying the item, is against the rules, because it is tricking and misleading the buyer. You claim it's paranoia. This is evidence which shows you are getting desperate, because you have lost the argument long ago. I don't see why you're continuing. Oh, I know why, you're desperate. You simply cannot admit that you are wrong. Oh thaaaat rule... Yeah I had a good long look at that one since that's the only one that even remotely fit. "Do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic and using the Service in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of EA in maintaining the Service for the enjoyment of all its users." That's the full rule btw. You do realise that me accidentally wiping a group in a flashpoint could constitute "interfering with the ability of others to enjoy playing SW:TOR" right? At least if you apply the rule as loosly as you do. Heck, I could claim that just seeing your character in-game interferes with my ability to enjoy the game. No, this does not apply to the GTN "scam". So, you can withdraw your cute little "checkmate" Edited November 10, 2014 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I shall quote it again. Tricking users by deliberately putting high prices and making it look like lower prices on the GTN because of the way the numbers are displayed is against the TOS because if a user is tricked into buying that item, it interferes with their enjoyment of the game. Checkmate. No it's not because a Seller can list any item they want for any price they choose and the buyer has a choice whether or not to buy said item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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