EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 But there is no misleading here, because a Seller can price an item however they want. That's why there is no scam going on because you cannot prove someone was scammed. Ermmm but there is misleading because the seller is tricking the buyer with the way the numbers are displayed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The heart wants what the heart wants. Next example? Do you think cheating on someone is immoral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Ermmm but there is misleading because the seller is tricking the buyer with the way the numbers are displayed.... No they are not. They are listing it at a price that they want to sell their items for, someone bought their items for the price listed. No trickery at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Reno, I take it you are a die-hard (Legal) Positivist? This thread is making my day, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Do you think cheating on someone is immoral? No. The heart wants what the heart wants, if it was meant to be the person wouldn't have cheated. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No they are not. They are listing it at a price that they want to sell their items for, someone bought their items for the price listed. No trickery at all. Yes they are. They are misleading someone by tricking people in the way the numbers are displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Reno, I take it you are a die-hard (Legal) Positivist? This thread is making my day, frankly. I'm just waiting to be magically proven wrong about this so called scam and it's yet to appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled-Phoenix Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Is this like one of those sarcasm threads? Cuz its not a scam if you forgot the extra 0... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yes they are. They are misleading someone by tricking people in the way the numbers are displayed. You goofed up and can't own up to your mistakes. Since a seller can list any price they want on the GTN there is no trickery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It is not the parent companies responsibility to protect you from yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No. The heart wants what the heart wants, if it was meant to be the person wouldn't have cheated. Next? Well i'm glad we've made it clear what kind of person you are Someone who thinks cheating on someone, breaking a persons heart, destroying them inside. isn't immoral. Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Sadly the idiocy of american jurists has forced companies to put that kind of stupid messaging on everything. Its sad but it would appear lots of jurists consist of people who think other people should be responsible for their own mistakes. Warning on a bad of salted peanuts: Caution! Contains Nuts! - GEE YA THINK?! edit: removed "like you" because it was uncalled for and an inaccurate accusation Like it or not, we have collectively decided that we don't wish to live in a "buyer beware" world. We want to have recourse in the event we're not happy with something. You don't have to like it. But that is how it is today. In this case, the seller is doing business in bad faith, in my view. This view is not shared by all, but it is shared by many. At the end of the day, if enough people share that view, then it becomes the "accepted view". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 You goofed up and can't own up to your mistakes. Since a seller can list any price they want on the GTN there is no trickery. Actually there is trickery because the seller is deliberately putting the price so that it looks like it's a lower price (because of the way the numbers are displayed). The seller is exploiting the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If it's not illegal, it's okay. Simple as that. You need to realize this. Two things... First, you're making the assumption that it isn't illegal. It might very well be. Doing business in bad faith has long been declared illegal by Judges in most civilized places. Second, it doesn't have to be illegal for Bioware to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Well i'm glad we've made it clear what kind of person you are Someone who thinks cheating on someone, breaking a persons heart, destroying them inside. isn't immoral. Oh dear. Not shure what this has to do with the GTN but okay? Actually there is trickery because the seller is deliberately putting the price so that it looks like it's a lower price (because of the way the numbers are displayed). The seller is exploiting the GTN. Actually there isn't. Where is this rule where a seller HAS to list a certain price? Please find it for me and end this silly discussion. But you won't because a seller can list a item at any price they want to. No trickery, no deceit, just plain black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Two things... First, you're making the assumption that it isn't illegal. It might very well be. Doing business in bad faith has long been declared illegal by Judges in most civilized places. Second, it doesn't have to be illegal for Bioware to do something about it. Again I point you toward the 100 Mile Long AC Change thread that got so much noise! And not a single notice by BW. Nothing is going to happen because nothing needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I totally get that point of view, mistakes happen, people learn from them. However... If those mistakes are caused by someone else doing business in bad faith, then they don't have to just accept it and move on. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/bad+faith "bad faith 1) n. intentional dishonest act by not fulfilling legal or contractual obligations, misleading another, entering into an agreement without the intention or means to fulfill it, or violating basic standards of honesty in dealing with others. Most states recognize what is called "implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing" which is breached by acts of bad faith" Read into that what you want, it is really not your opinion or my opinion that matters, it is a Judge's opinion that matters. I'm sure you could find a Judge somewhere that doesn't think this situation is bad faith, and I'm equally as sure that I could find one that does. My lawyers job is to try and get the case in front of the latter Judge (which is why good legal council is worth its weight in gold). Yup sadly there are many lawyers who have such a way with words that they can weasel their way into and out of any situation no matter how ridiculous of a strawman argument is made. The point im making is that it doesnt matter even IF i listed the price in "bad faith" (the correct legal term is mala fide). For it to truly be mala fide there has to be limited recourse for the buyer to have access to the true picture of what they are getting into before the transaction takes place. This is simply not the case here. The seller can list an item for any price he wants. Any person can come buy and take up the seller's offer. If the buyer misread the price and accepted the offer thinking they were getting a good deal, only to later realise that they misread the price and paid more than they thought they would be paying, that doesnt make the seller liable. for the uyer's mistake It doesnt matter how the seller priced the item. It doesnt matter why the seller priced it at whatever price he priced it at. (now some judges might take exception to the fact that the seller intentionally priced it at a figure he knew some people were likely to misread). However all the information was available to the buyer up front. The buyer pressed the buy button and the listed value was deducted from his account. There was no coercion or deception or obfuscation involved. He made a conscious choice to press the buy button and in doing so he entered into an agreement to pay the listed price in exchange for the item. Now of course a judge has the discretion to reverse the agreement or order a partial refund or whatever, by taking into account all the extenuating circumstances; but it doesnt negate the fact that the buyer entered into an agreement to purchase entirely voluntary and that the seller doesnt OWE him anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Actually there isn't. Where is this rule where a seller HAS to list a certain price? Please find it for me and end this silly discussion. But you won't because a seller can list a item at any price they want to. No trickery, no deceit, just plain black and white. In fact it is trickery. There is no specific rule but it's against the TOS. Please just accept you're wrong so we can end this silly discussion. It's trickery and misleading plain and simple. Edited November 10, 2014 by EvenHardNiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 But there is no misleading here, because a Seller can price an item however they want. That's why there is no scam going on because you cannot prove someone was scammed. The issue is that you keep posting things as if they were facts, yet even you admit they are your opinions in other posts. You say "but there is no misleading here". My reply is, "nonsense, yes there is". I think the sellers are very much being misleading, you think they are not. These are both opinions. Even if were both layers, they would still just be opinions. Only a ruling from a Judge would carry any weight. As it stands, this subject will keep coming up because this behavior continues, and it needs to be stopped. The irony is, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it is legal or not. Bioware can choose to put a stop to it regardless of the law, it is their game and unless ordered to do otherwise by a court of law, they can mostly do what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 In fact it is trickery. There is no specific rule but it's against the TOS. Please just accept you're wrong so we can end this silly discussion. It's trickery and misleading plain and simple. Please quote where it's against the TOS to list a item at any price the seller chooses. I'll be waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The issue is that you keep posting things as if they were facts, yet even you admit they are your opinions in other posts. You say "but there is no misleading here". My reply is, "nonsense, yes there is". I think the sellers are very much being misleading, you think they are not. These are both opinions. Even if were both layers, they would still just be opinions. Only a ruling from a Judge would carry any weight. As it stands, this subject will keep coming up because this behavior continues, and it needs to be stopped. The irony is, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it is legal or not. Bioware can choose to put a stop to it regardless of the law, it is their game and unless ordered to do otherwise by a court of law, they can mostly do what they want. There is no misleading because you can't be misled. The information is right there on the GTN clear as day, why are you not getting this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Like it or not, we have collectively decided that we don't wish to live in a "buyer beware" world. We want to have recourse in the event we're not happy with something. You don't have to like it. But that is how it is today. In this case, the seller is doing business in bad faith, in my view. This view is not shared by all, but it is shared by many. At the end of the day, if enough people share that view, then it becomes the "accepted view". Yup if enough people share the view then its the accepted view aka a social norm. I get that. I do not think it is currently the socially accepted view. Also just because something is the accepted view or is socially acceptable does not making it right or wrong. Racism, sexism, religious intolerance, etc have all been socially acceptable at one point or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Trying to equate an MMO GTN to contract law? Awesome. Why not? All transactions are contracts, even verbal ones. All that is required for a contract is consideration, and since this game is paid for with real money and items can be purchased with real money via the cash shop and those can be traded on the GTN, contract law very much does come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Reno, I take it you are a die-hard (Legal) Positivist? This thread is making my day, frankly. If he is, he is a bad one... His understanding of contract law is pretty piss poor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No. The heart wants what the heart wants, if it was meant to be the person wouldn't have cheated. Next? Wow... that is... just sad..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts