Random thoughts after a long absence

[Vego_Mohenjo]

Some thoughts on my return to TOR. I've been away a while, and there have been some additions to the game that bear examination.

 

First, Starfighter Combat. My initial experience of this is not encouraging. I entered the queue, meaning it's all PvP. I don't like PvP, it brings out the worst in people. But, I put that aside to try it out. I tried out the three classes of ships: Scout, Strike and Gunship. (Of course, I did the tutorial first)

 

I started in the scout. Being new, I thought it prudent to follow in with the rest of the team. Going off by yourself is never a good idea. Well, there's a bunch of red squares in front of me, so I begin closing. Suddenly I blow up, someone killed me, somehow. There was no indication of where the attack that killed me came from, no sign of blaster fire approaching the ship, nothing. This happened a few times, so I respawned in the Strike Fighter.

 

Once again, I began approaching the enemy Everyone was out of range, yet somehow I was being missile locked. I barrel rolled to evade it, but it just locked on again as soon as the roll was finished. There was still no one in range that I could see, so I started jinking and turning to avoid fire (I assumed someone had some ability that could conceal them from sensors). Now, I've played flight sims for a LONG time, so I'm a darn good pilot, even when not using a joystick. Even so, I was destroyed again without ever seeing an enemy.

 

I respawned in the Gunship after several more deaths, and tried the sniping weapon. I targeted a player ship, and fired - with no apparent effect. I then blew up, apparently from foes that had approached while my ship was evidently sitting still to snipe. So, I respawned and tried to get into the melee. Once again, I was destroyed a couple of times as I approached, usually by a cacophony of missile locks by foes I couldn't even see, but eventually I got into gunnery range.

 

I moved in toward a foe, the leading reticle was grey. It turned red for a millionth of a second as he blew past me, and I didn't even have time to fire a shot. I never saw him again, as the Gunship can't turn around in a dogfight. Evasive maneuvers were again useless, and a deluge of missiles again ended it.

 

Dogfighting, I decided, mandates maneuverability, so back to the Scout I went. Once more, I had to put up with several defeats as I tried to approach the battle, but eventually I did once more get to gunnery range. Once again, the enemy flashed across the screen so fast I barely had time to even see him, let alone fire at him. This proved to be the norm. Enemies flashed on the screen for a fraction of a second before I would just suddenly blow up. Looking for some more resiliency, I went back to the Strike Fighter, but once again, I couldn't turn with my foes, and was massacred by missiles and foes I couldn't even see.

 

Final score for that match was about 50-2, so clearly I wasn't the only one having trouble. Someone commented that the group we were against was clearly well geared. I scratched my head at that, why would they pit people who have never flown before against people who have top end gear? There would be, and was not, any way for us to compete, and that's the whole point of PvP - competition. It was like they dropped a 6 year old into an NHL game.

 

Needless to say, I wasn't very impressed, and am not particularly inspired to bother with it again.

 

To me, this is a crippling blow. I was one of the many who strongly advised the devs that they needed a decent space game, as far back as the original betas. That THIS is what they ended up with is disappointing, to say the least.

 

The only thing I had looked forward to more than space flight was player housing.

 

I'm one of those who likes to immerse myself in the setting. In Galaxies, I spent most of my game time just driving around planets looking for places to put a house. In the end, I had several homes - a villa on a ridge overlooking Mos Eisley and another on a butte overlooking an oasis on Lok, and then more permanent homes, one among the trees along the river near Tyrenia on Corellia, the other high in the hills overlooking Keren on Naboo.

 

It took me months to settle on those locations, and many more months to decorate the houses. I then ran my business from them (I was a crafter). It was wonderful.

 

So, when I heard Strongholds were coming, I was understandably excited. It didn't last long, alas.

 

I fired up my free Nar Shaddaa stronghold, and went to check it out. A nice entry area, stairs down and several doors. I found most of them were locked. Not unexpected, but the COST was. 350,000 credits to unlock ONE room. If I combined all the cash on all 15 of my characters, I wouldn't have that much, and that's just one room. The strongholds have several.

 

So, I tried checking out some other people's homes, and they were often excellent. I rather liked the Dromund Kaas homes, with the rain falling on the windows, and of course, I was delighted by the HUGE Tatooine home, just because I love the desert, and it reminded me a little of Galaxies. Some of the furnishings look rather nice too, so I thought I might just make do with the couple of rooms I had in my stronghold. Of course, then I found out it was 2.5 MILLION credits (meaning I'll NEVER have the cash to buy it.)

 

So, I went to shop for furniture. To my frustration, I found the basic things were startlingly expensive, often costing thousands of credits. I would bankrupt myself trying to decorate one room. Most decorations, however, seem to involve tokens or cartel currency (ie. REAL money). In other words pretty much EVERYTHING about Strongholds is priced beyond my means.

 

Strongholds should have been implemented in different sizes, so I wouldn't be locked out of 90% of my own home. More, they should have been FAR less expensive. I mean, I don't have 350,000 to open a room, how do they expect me to pay 2.5 MILLION for a Tatooine home?

 

So, once again, I find myself horribly disappointed by The Old Republic. Content I had been looking forward to has been implemented poorly and/or priced out of reach. More, the cash grab has infected these new elements, with the use of cartel funds (again, REAL MONEY) being the only truly viable way to use the new content.

 

I'm sickened and disappointed. I've been here in the Old Republic since the beginning, and my experiences have been almost entirely negative. My initial impression of the game was very positive. Sure, it had room to grow. There was little depth, nothing to do besides combat, no space game... but these kinds of things could be added later. I had confidence in Bioware.

 

Then they went free to play, and everything went right to hell. They consolidated servers, and took my characters' names away. As a roleplayer, that was devastating, but I soldiered on. I figured, I was being moved to someone else's server, so they had dibs on the names. They they consolidated again, and once again my names were taken away. Once again, I adjusted and carried on. Then they did one more merge. This time, people were moving onto the server I was on, so now I had dibs - and yet they gave my names away AGAIN. By now, I was feeling pretty victimized.

 

So, I lost much of my desire to play and after a bit, left the game for a while. Now I'm back again, and what do I find? New content badly implemented or designed to suck as much actual cash out of us as possible, even though we're actually subscribed! There is STILL no depth to the game. All there is to do is combat. There's not even a crafting game, as all you do is assign tasks to the NPCs. I'd LOVE to do some of the missions they get sent away on. There's no Sabacc, not even Pazaak. We've been asking for Pazaak since GALAXIES was live. There's nowhere to explore, all the worlds are just adventure zones where every living thing will try to attack you. There's no WORLD, just little chunks exclusively for questing. There's NO DEPTH.

 

In short, I feel victimized AGAIN. There's nothing to do but combat. The space game is ALSO all combat, and PvP at that. Housing has been priced beyond reach. Classes that were once carefully balanced have been unbalanced by legacy powers (and possibly pay to win gear), and repeated nerfs and redesigns. My characters all have bizarre ugly names with accents and weird letters because my names have been stolen from me several times. My main character has been ruined for me by giggling his way through every fight, which is inappropriate for his personality. Everything I might have enjoyed about this game has disintegrated bit by bit until I really lack any desire to play.

 

I want to like the game. It has a lot going for it. It's Star Wars. You get to make CHOICES and they actually MATTER. It has good voice work, nice graphics, great music and so on. There's just been too many bad choices, bad designs, and far too much greed and ignorance.

 

Apologies if this all seems disorganized, I've been writing it a bit at a time while I'm at work.

[ELRunninW]

This is a very long read and I can not comment on everything, I would like to make few points thought. When you fly towards another ship in star fighter, that is travelling in your direction, it is rather obvious they will fly by you, rather very soon.

Supposedly high costs of strongholds does not stop people from owning them. Just check the public listing. These are public listings alone. You may not be able to afford it, I will not disagree. Obviously, BW did not use you as a player base to design their updates.

[Mubrak]

First, the Coruscant/Korriban apartments ar far less expensive: http://tor-decorating.com/coruscant-skyrise-apartment/ Nar Shadaa is your exclusive Las Vegas penthouse, Tatooine is a chateau.

 

Second, you obviously were absent for a very long time, the prices reflect the current player wealth. 350k won't get you very far, actually that's the max sum a "preferred" free to play player can have. Enough to get by, but not enough to buy the nice stuff from the GTN, To earn 350k all you need to do is doing the the dailies in the old level 50 areas for 2 days.

 

Most dedicated players can afford to expand their Nar Shadaa home, and a some can show their wealth by owning a stately mansion in Tatooine's nicest countryside. So instead of expanding your exclusive Nar Shadaa Sky palace, start with an appartment on your capital world. You'll need quite a bit of money to actually furnish it.

 

 

And no, there is no pay-2-win - unless you consider the option to buy vanity stuff from the cartell market, and sell it on the GTN to earn the credits to buy yourself good crafted equipment to be pay-2-win, still the highest tiers of equip can't be crafted, only earned by running ops.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Mubrak

[LyraineAlei]

Galactic Strongholds are a credit sink, they're also new. Just wait a bit for the big decorating rush to slowdown (or not, snag the common ones for cheap when everyone is trying to sell sell sell)

 

Capital World strongholds are much cheaper (5k to buy, and a fee tens of thousand to expand for the most part).

 

But it is all new, which is why they're so expensive.

 

Starfighter, well, I avoid it personally because I found the tutorial's lack of specific detail on how everything works (including combatting someone shooting back) ... Disturbing, to steal Vader's line.

[DSpectre]

Can't give my take on GSF, since i've never touched it since release and also my opinion on PvP is the same as yours. I rather like the co-optiveness in people rather than battling other people. I don't like confrontation like that.

 

 

However, as said above, GSH is a credit-sink. and a good one at that. 350k really isn't much, as all of my combined characters have a few BILLION in credits. (Play the GTN, it's easy money). Home-world strongholds (Coru, and Kaas) are cheaper in terms on unlocking the space. And basic furniture from the vendor doesn't exceed 5k (To the best of my memory).

 

Credits are extremely easy to make in SWTOR now (Been playing since release) and people have accumulated ridiculous amounts of wealth. Coming back from a hiatus would leave you in this disposition. Despite having many "falling-outs" with the game (I go in and out of binging this game from playing constantly to logging on for 3 hours a week), i still upheld my crafting and merching on the GTN, and kept up with buying and selling.

 

 

It's unfortunate you have the situation of being "poor" In-Game, but if you put a couple hard-hours into questing over the weekend and you will have a couple Million very quickly.

[Infernixx]

Your post leads me to believe that you're a time-traveler from the year 2012.

[Essence_of_Light]

Your post leads me to believe that you're a time-traveler from the year 2012.

 

Le gasp! What if he is?!?!

 

Also, welcome back OP!

[ghoul_drool]

Your GSF experience sounds familiar. But don't forget you are facing off against people who have fully upgraded their ships months ago. If you're being swatted like a fly, that's why. Yeah, that's a design error - new GSF players get put into teams with players whose craft are vastly superior. There's no solution that that but DIE an awful lot, get the requisition anyway, and upgrade yourself.

 

As for Strongholds, you should definitely give that another chance. It's not meant to be unlocked and decorated all at once, nor should it be. Don't let yourself get blinded by players who have accumulated vast fortunes. Even I, sitting comforably at 75 million, won't open up all of Tatooine in one go because yes, it's bloody expensive, and I guard my credits like a Hutt.

 

As for decorations, get your legacy together, and get all the crafting skills working in unison. Crafting REALLY pays off again, as there's a whole pool of decorations (and hopefully soon to expand) that can be bought with the crafted prefabs.

[XiamaraSimi]

As another player stated, play the GTN & do dailes. I don't PvP, don't do Starfighter, don't do FPs or OPs. Yet I have all the SH, unlocked and at 100%, as well as have all 5 legacy bank tabs unlocked. I have also taken several hiatuses from the game, I stopped playing months before the game went F2P, and came back months after it was F2P.

 

Myself I just do crafting and GTN wrangling (note, the -only- thing I buy and sell off the GTN are crafting schematics, the rest is selling stuff I craft and the occasion junk from shipment packs I don't want from boxes I've opened)

 

I'll occasionally do some dailies if I want something from a rep vendor but I only do it on one char who is able to do them easily. (It took me a few months to get Czerka to max so that says how slowly I puttered through it) I might be done with Oricon faction in November if I remember to go do them a couple days a week ^_~

 

So it is doable, you just have to be in the right mindset. I'm the last person anyone would say is a powergamer, I prefer to run around on my 14th alt seeing different conversation results or -gasp- RP.. So it can be done.

 

Yes the Strongholds aren't like everyones Rose Tinted memories of Galaxies. But they are a damn sight better then the class ship and that creepy droid constantly offering me a foot massage...

 

I am sad my ships parked in the Tat and Nar Strongholds are so tiny though, its especially noticible on the Nar platform

Edited September 9, 2014 by XiamaraSimi

[LordArtemis]

Although i certainly do not agree with everything the OP said...ESPECIALLY about the game being better before F2P (I have the exact opposite view) I would say that the points about GSF and GS are telling IMO.

 

GSF, in my view, did not generate the kind of interest of player retention/recruitment it should have, and mistakes were made in the design of Strongholds as well (though the QoL improvements that Strongholds provides mitigates this to some extent for me personally).

 

There is no hope for GSF at this point. It has been too long and the damage is done IMO. They could make many positive changes, but in my opinion it would only serve to improve participation at this point.

 

I also think the writing is on the wall for Strongholds. Most of the reviews that I have read have been either reports or moderate to poor in judgement on specifics, some posts from returning players seem to follow a theme that demonstrates they are not that impressed with the design, so I fear that I may have been right about this feature as well....like GSF, IMO, this will do little to recruit or hold players.

 

However, IMO changes could be made to strongholds now to reverse that possible outcome since it is early in it's implementation. I will not list my suggested changes here, I will only state that I believe Bioware needs to actually LISTEN to those that tested the system.

 

They have already been told what needs to be done by the testers.

Edited September 9, 2014 by LordArtemis

[CmdrShpd]

 

I also think the writing is on the wall for Strongholds. Reviews have been moderate to poor...

 

[citation needed]

[Muljo_Stpho]

GSF is supposed to have some sort of matchmaking to ensure that the teams are balanced, but it gets pretty broken when it's not getting enough people queuing. It's also possible that an experienced player could start over on a fresh character (so they'd have fresh stats and look the same as a noob to the matchmaking algorithm) and even without all the best upgrades they can still be a bit of a beast to go up against. And lately with conquests there is unfortunately the potential for ending up with players who will throw the match to get it to end quicker so they can farm conquest points.

 

I have been on both sides of those terribly one-sided matches where one side just completely dominates and the other team struggles to get even a few points. I have also been in really intense close matches where the score is tied or just a few points apart at all times. The close matches tend to be the really interesting ones no matter which side you're on.

 

The in-game tutorial for GSF shows you a couple things but it's pretty poor about preparing you for most things. This has been a common complaint from the start. For some tips and suggestions to help you get the hang of it, you might start with this guide from the GSF forum:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=729222

 

Since you mention a lot of issues with the range of weapons, a few numbers for you:

* Gunship range is 15k

* Railgun sentry drones and ships with specific missiles (proton torpedo and I think one other) have a range of 10k

* Missile sentry drones most types of ship missiles have a range of 7k

* blaster weapon ranges depend on the type of weapon and if it's upgraded, but these are usually somewhere between 4k and 6k

* Drones that aren't railgun drones also have blaster fire, and the range on that is usually 5k.

* Mines usually trigger when you pass within something like 3k, I think (I may not be remembering that right but it should be close)

 

(Oh yeah, by the way. There's a bomber type of ship too. You already had a gunship by default because of being a subscriber at a certain time (most will only have the strike and scout as options when they start) but nobody gets a bomber by default. They're out there though and they can plant mines and drones.)

 

A couple more quick tips: Press tab a lot (cycles between nearby targets) and sometimes R can be useful too (targets whoever attacked you). Little red arrows in a circle around your screen show which direction the enemies are in, and your current target's arrow will be marked in a lighter shade. Try to turn towards the arrow to get your target in sight. (You may want to rotate with A or D for this. The ships turn faster if you're turning up/down relative to the ship instead of left/right. You can also throttle your speed down with S for a tighter turn or up with W for a wider turn.)

 

When you have an enemy targeted it will display what it is and how far away they are. Keep in mind what types of weapons have what ranges.

 

edit: You were concerned about stealth. There is currently no stealth type of ship. They almost introduced it a few months ago but it was delayed indefinitely. People can sneak around a bit and surprise you by taking advantage of you being distracted by something else, but they can't actually become invisible.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Muljo_Stpho

[Arkerus]

Although i certainly do not agree with everything the OP said...ESPECIALLY about the game being better before F2P (I have the exact opposite view) I would say that the points about GSF and GS are telling IMO.

 

GSF, in my view, did not generate the kind of interest of player retention/recruitment it should have, and mistakes were made in the design of Strongholds as well (though the QoL improvements that Strongholds provides mitigates this to some extent for me personally).

 

There is no hope for GSF at this point. It has been too long and the damage is done IMO. They could make many positive changes, but in my opinion it would only serve to improve participation at this point.

 

I also think the writing is on the wall for Strongholds. Reviews have been moderate to poor, returning players seem to follow a theme that demonstrates they are not that impressed with the design, so I fear that I may have been right about this feature as well....like GSF, IMO, this will do little to recruit or hold players.

 

However, IMO changes could be made to strongholds now to reverse that possible outcome since it is early in it's implementation. I will not list my suggested changes here, I will only state that I believe Bioware needs to actually LISTEN to those that tested the system.

 

They have already been told what needs to be done by the testers.

 

Not sure if serious...

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Your opinion of GSF echoes mine exactly, to me they made a shooter sidegame but balanced it like traditional MMO PvP in where the experienced have more gear to dominate new players rather than putting everyone on an equal footing. I actually enjoy games with aerial or space combat like for example in BF4 I was division 1 on the jets but in this game I wont touch it, it just stinks of poor balancing where the guy that played longer can own you until you eventually grind deaths in order to upgrade. I don't find that method of progression very enjoyable in a space shooter side game.

[LordArtemis]

[citation needed]

 

Citation is not needed. Rejection is allowed.

[LordArtemis]

Not sure if serious...

 

Arkerus, when have you known me not to be serious about something like this?

[Darth_Wicked]

Citation is not needed. Rejection is allowed.

 

You said reviews have been moderate to poor. By who exactly? You, yourself and thy?

[LordArtemis]

You said reviews have been moderate to poor. By who exactly? You, yourself and thy?

 

Now Darth, when have you known me to justify ANY opinion i give to anyone here?

 

Who exactly is a question for you to answer, not me. Naturally that is due to the fact that you are typing responses on an internet forum, so it is likely you have internet access...and therefore the capacity to confirm or reject my opinion on your own, as anyone can do.

 

I would suggest you do exactly that if you wish to....or you can reject my opinion out of hand. Either is acceptable and welcome.

Edited September 9, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Darth_Wicked]

Now Darth, when have you known me to justify ANY opinion i give to anyone here?

 

Who exactly is a question for you to answer, not me. Naturally that is due to the fact that you are typing responses on an internet forum, so it is likely you have internet access...and therefore the capacity to confirm or reject my opinion on your own, as anyone can do.

 

I would suggest you do exactly that if you wish to....or you can reject my opinion out of hand. Either is acceptable and welcome.

 

Last I checked, you weren't conveying an opinion but rather stating that reviews were moderate to poor.

 

Obviously, CmdrShpd saw fit to ask for a citation, which you have apparently have an issue providing. Arkerus also commented in jest that he wasn't sure if you were being serious, if not a bit of a troll.

 

So i ask again: Who are these reviewers and / or reviews you are talking about? You, yourself and thy? Each one wrote a review?

 

If you have no interest in answering the question above, then I guess it would be best not to claim something such as this.

I also think the writing is on the wall for Strongholds. Reviews have been moderate to poor...

It reflects poorly on you, assuming that is even more possible nowadays.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Drudenfusz]

Citation is not needed. Rejection is allowed.

Sure, you can reject everything you want, but to claim that reviews are a certain way, you better proof that, since your opinion is not some kind of meta-critic.

[LordArtemis]

Last I checked, you weren't conveying an opinion but rather stating that reviews were moderate to poor.

 

Obviously, CmdrShpd saw fit to ask for a citation, which you have apparently have an issue providing. Arkerus also commented in jest that he wasn't sure if you were being serious, if not a bit of a troll.

 

So i ask again: Who are these reviewers and / or reviews you are talking about? You, yourself and thy? Each one wrote a review?

 

If you have no interest in answering the question above, then I guess it would be best not to claim something such as this.

 

It reflects poorly on you, assuming that is even more possible nowadays.

 

You are welcome to feel it relfects poorly on me if you wish.

 

Rejection is a viable option, I chose what I post and the wisdom or lack thereof. That is not a choice that is made for me by anyone but me.

 

Again, you should know this about me by now Darth. The fact you act as if this is a surprise is rather odd.

[Darth_Wicked]

You are welcome to feel it relfects poorly on me if you wish.

 

Rejection is a viable option, I chose what I post and the wisdom or lack thereof. That is not a choice that is made for me by anyone but me.

 

Again, you should know this about me by now Darth. The fact you act as if this is a surprise is rather odd.

 

In other words, what you're saying is that you talked out of your backside earlier.

 

Gotcha.

[LordArtemis]

Sure, you can reject everything you want, but to claim that reviews are a certain way, you better proof that, since your opinion is not some kind of meta-critic.

 

I had better prove nothing. And that is what I will do. To insinuate this is some kind of requirement is rather silly IMO.

[LordArtemis]

In other words, what you're saying is that you talked out of your backside earlier.

 

Gotcha.

 

What I am saying is what I said. You don't get to redefine its meaning. I define what I mean.

 

But, If that is the way you wish to see it in your own mind, you are welcome to do so, as always. Funny how it works that way.

 

You are welcome to see my future posts in the same light from now on.

 

Darth, stop pretending this is something new to you. You of ALL people know this is what I do.

Edited September 9, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Darth_Wicked]

What I am saying is what I said. You don't get to redefine its meaning. I define what I mean.

 

But, If that is the way you wish to see it in your own mind, you are welcome to do so. Funny how it works that way.

 

You are welcome to see my future posts in the same light from now on.

 

The meaning is apparent.

 

Ironically, you're the only one who has an issue with understanding the same words and the context in which you chose to insert them.

 

You can't possibly claim that reviews for something have "been moderate to poor" and not expect to have that claim challenged... If you don't, then I guess that says a lot about yourself.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Darth_Wicked