Seems Wildstar ain't faring as well as some said...

[Jeweledleah]

well seeing as how the game actually IS built on an unfinished engine and it suffers from that FACT its not much of an opinion now is it?? and taking a look at a lot of the press and articles kinda shows its not all that admired as a company anymore. and kotor was a star wars game so if they are playing it because it is a sequel to kotor then they are playing it because it is star wars. if this game had no star wars at all im willing to bet half the of the players would have never touched it and wouldn't be playing it now.

 

oh lordie.

 

for example. I picked up KOTOR, not becasue it star wars, but becasue its a bioware rpg and I've been told by multiple people that it's fantastic (that and I enjoyed other bioware games before) and guarantee you that I'm not the only one. that its star wars? is incidental. NOT primary motivator. some people picked up SWTOR because its KOTOR sequel specifically. yet others because - bioware rpg. but please keep trying to convince yourself that this being star wars is the only thing that matters. becasue I'm so very sorry to burst your bubble, but if star wars was THE thing that mattered? SWG would have been a much more popular thriving game and it would still exist. becasue it would have been profitable enough to renew the license. and that's the sad truth. more people enjoy SWTOR than they EVER enjoyed SWG.

[jedimessiah]

are you new?? its a known fact that swtor was built on an alpha version of the hero engine and a finished MMO engine is one that is NOT in the alpha stage or beta stage B^P

 

SWG didn't go free to play because it wasn't an option for them. If SWG had launched after say 2005 or later, it would have been gone free to play.

 

Swtor's engine is based off an alpha version of the Hero engine that is correct. To call the engine we currently use the hero engine is just false. It was so heavily modified before the game even launched (as game devs do to all engines) it is no longer recognizable as such. There is no such thing as a "finished game engine" in the MMO world.

[Icebergy]

and yet SWG was a sub based game all the way up till it closed down B^P....the reason SWTOR failed to remain a sub-only game is because it just wasn't good enough to be a sub-only game. that being said it has gotten a lot better, though im still not sure it is worth a monthly subscription fee

 

Patently false. This game added a free option because the people in charge figured out that they would make more money by doing so than they would by keeping it sub only. That is the only reason.

[Edzew]

oh lordie.

 

for example. I picked up KOTOR, not becasue it star wars, but becasue its a bioware rpg and I've been told by multiple people that it's fantastic (that and I enjoyed other bioware games before) and guarantee you that I'm not the only one. that its star wars? is incidental. NOT primary motivator. some people picked up SWTOR because its KOTOR sequel specifically. yet others because - bioware rpg. but please keep trying to convince yourself that this being star wars is the only thing that matters. becasue I'm so very sorry to burst your bubble, but if star wars was THE thing that mattered? SWG would have been a much more popular thriving game and it would still exist. becasue it would have been profitable enough to renew the license. and that's the sad truth. more people enjoy SWTOR than they EVER enjoyed SWG.

 

yea yea yea but if you took away the star wars from this game it would have even less players.... that is my point!! yea YOU like it kuz its bioware but there a LOT of people that are only playing it because its star wars.

 

SWG didn't go free to play because it wasn't an option for them. If SWG had launched after say 2005 or later, it would have been gone free to play.

 

Swtor's engine is based off an alpha version of the Hero engine that is correct. To call the engine we currently use the hero engine is just false. It was so heavily modified before the game even launched (as game devs do to all engines) it is no longer recognizable as such. There is no such thing as a "finished game engine" in the MMO world.

 

why wasn't it an option?? there were plenty of free to play games back before SWG closed down?? the reason it didn't was because somehow it was still making money from its subscribers.

 

and yes they modified the heck out of it that is why they have so many problems with it.. they rushed it and it was incomplete but they used it any ways. because of that we cant have a lot of things in game.

[Edzew]

Patently false. This game added a free option because the people in charge figured out that they would make more money by doing so than they would by keeping it sub only. That is the only reason.

 

yea after they lost a crap load of subscribers after the first month and continued to loose subs B^P

[Arkerus]

are you new?? its a known fact that swtor was built on an alpha version of the hero engine and a finished MMO engine is one that is NOT in the alpha stage or beta stage B^P

 

I can only /facepalm. You missed the point completely.

[Heal-To-Full]

and yet SWG was a sub based game all the way up till it closed down B^P....the reason SWTOR failed to remain a sub-only game

No.

Wrong premise.

SWG failed and in part because it was a sub-only game.

SWTOR was a moderate success and its limited f2p contributed to it.

[Callaron]

EQN has been out for months.

 

I think that's EQ Landmark. EQ Next definitely isn't out yet.

And yes, some are already starting to call it the next "WoWkiller".

The crowd that originally hailed Wildstar as the "great destroyer" has probably forgotten that the game even exists these days.

[lukrlrrr]

yea yea yea but if you took away the star wars from this game it would have even less players.... that is my point!! yea YOU like it kuz its bioware but there a LOT of people that are only playing it because its star wars.

 

 

 

why wasn't it an option?? there were plenty of free to play games back before SWG closed down?? the reason it didn't was because somehow it was still making money from its subscribers.

 

and yes they modified the heck out of it that is why they have so many problems with it.. they rushed it and it was incomplete but they used it any ways. because of that we cant have a lot of things in game.

 

I play this game because it's fun not because it's star wars

[branmakmuffin]

I think that's EQ Landmark. EQ Next definitely isn't out yet.

Yeah, I thought EQN came out in April. I see that's not so.

[Icebergy]

yea after they lost a crap load of subscribers after the first month and continued to loose subs B^P

 

This happens to every single MMO in the history of ever except WoW. Even WoW though only has about a 20-25% retention rate...Remarkably this is approximately the same rate as SWTOR's. WoW just was in the right place at the right time with the right list of features to have a lot more players give it an initial try.

[TheNahash]

This happens to every single MMO in the history of ever except WoW. Even WoW though only has about a 20-25% retention rate...Remarkably this is approximately the same rate as SWTOR's. WoW just was in the right place at the right time with the right list of features to have a lot more players give it an initial try.

 

Which, incidentally, was the same time as SWG.

Yet, apparently the "awesomeness" that was SWG somehow didn't manage to survive.

I guess there must have been a sinister conspiracy that prevented such a perfect game from succeeding and led it a slow and painful death

 

Of course you are wasting your time trying to explain that to Edzew.

He's just going to pretend SWG was a success and the only reason it died was SWTOR. You can't have a rational discussion with people who just don't want to see the truth and would rather blame something marginally relevant instead.

Edited September 20, 2014 by TheNahash

[Callaron]

Of course you are wasting your time trying to explain that to Edzew.

He's just going to pretend SWG was a success and the only reason it died was SWTOR. You can't have a rational discussion with people who just don't want to see the truth and would rather blame something marginally relevant instead.

 

SWG's Indoctrination program may have failed on most people, but boy, on those that it did succeed on it did an awesome job.

[Edzew]

Which, incidentally, was the same time as SWG.

Yet, apparently the "awesomeness" that was SWG somehow didn't manage to survive.

I guess there must have been a sinister conspiracy that prevented such a perfect game from succeeding and led it a slow and painful death

 

Of course you are wasting your time trying to explain that to Edzew.

He's just going to pretend SWG was a success and the only reason it died was SWTOR. You can't have a rational discussion with people who just don't want to see the truth and would rather blame something marginally relevant instead.

 

o don't be daft!

 

its kinda funny how you bioware yes men try and tear down and talk down anyone that dont think this game or other bioware games aren't all that great.

 

 

ive been playing landmark for a while now and i must say its one of the prettiest games i have seen so far, its also a LOT of fun... if you like exploring and building things. BUT you need a good computer to run it which means you will need a good computer to run EQNext. have also been playing archeage which reminds me a lot of SWG. these two games are the reason im leaving TOR. TOR could have been great!!! but it is just too limiting in every aspect of the game, the storys are a bit boring after the first chapters and it still feeling like a single player game B^( i had high hopes when they announced GSF and that's what initially brought me back, then it hit and i saw that it was just a crappy knock off copy of Star Conflict.. and when i was about to cancel they announced strongholds which was a huge let down once again.

[TheNahash]

... im leaving TOR

 

Great

[Callaron]

Great

 

He'll be back.

[Edzew]

He'll be back.

 

oh please please please hold your breath!!!!!

[Sangrar]

This game is doing better than some others. As it is I remember specifically a lot of people claiming Wildstar would destroy this game and force it to shut down in months. They said its devs "cared" and would make sure a "disaster" like this game would never happen again. HOWEVER, despite stuff including "cross server at launch" and "40 man raids" in the end the devs have had to announce server mergers IN HALF THE TIME IT TOOK SWTOR TO GET TO THAT POINT. Say what you want about this game, its made mistakes, but its still fared pretty well despite what others may have you believe, and compared to the competitors.

 

 

To be fair I knew the Wildstar claims were full of crap when the games own devs claimed "one day a game will come along and beat WoW" and heavily implied it would be them.

[Edzew]

This game is doing better than some others. As it is I remember specifically a lot of people claiming Wildstar would destroy this game and force it to shut down in months. They said its devs "cared" and would make sure a "disaster" like this game would never happen again. HOWEVER, despite stuff including "cross server at launch" and "40 man raids" in the end the devs have had to announce server mergers IN HALF THE TIME IT TOOK SWTOR TO GET TO THAT POINT. Say what you want about this game, its made mistakes, but its still fared pretty well despite what others may have you believe, and compared to the competitors.

 

 

To be fair I knew the Wildstar claims were full of crap when the games own devs claimed "one day a game will come along and beat WoW" and heavily implied it would be them.

 

 

just because WIldstar didn't wait till it was almost too late to merge server don't mean anything!!! TOR should have merged servers after the first month and a half after launch!! B^P and at least their deves listen to their players because they are going in and changing things up.

[Sangrar]

just because WIldstar didn't wait till it was almost too late to merge server don't mean anything!!! TOR should have merged servers after the first month and a half after launch!! B^P and at least their deves listen to their players because they are going in and changing things up.

 

now they are but they are having to adapt and change away from the direction they wanted at launch. And I honestly do not know how long they will be able to keep up a sub only model, I know some people said how the devs claimed the game would shut down before going f2p lets hope for their sake they change their minds. I mean who knows how long that will be profitable with sub only. I can see them making a recovery but again my point is that the "swtor-killer" is going through something similar to us, and that at least we are doing better. from what I have gotten the game is still at a stable million and is s till making good money which means at least for the while we got some decent security to keep us through until 3.0. I know a few guys who have come back to level alts and get ready for 3.0 as with being a few months away they want to get back into the feel for things.

[Eldrenath]

just because WIldstar didn't wait till it was almost too late to merge server don't mean anything!!! TOR should have merged servers after the first month and a half after launch!! B^P and at least their deves listen to their players because they are going in and changing things up.

 

Yes, I have read many, many posts from WildStar players saying how great their devs are at listening to them. /rolls eyes

 

WildStar is not a failure, it's just absolutely never going to be as popular as it's adherents think it will be. Neither will EQNext. Neither was SWTOR. I remember before launch how many players swore that SWTOR was going to be the best, was going to crush every other MMOs. And surprise surprise, it didn't.

 

I really like SWTOR. It isn't perfect, and I've taken breaks from it. There are things about it that have frustrated me a lot. But I keep coming back, and likely will keep coming back. And not because its Star Wars. I don't particularly like or dislike Star Wars. I've seen the movies a few times. I read one trilogy of books. I didn't start playing SWTOR because of Star Wars, I started because my brother (who also doesn't like Star Wars) wanted to play and I wanted to game with him. So I bought it and I think it's great. I've read a LOT about SWG pre- and post-NGE and it sounds like something I absolutely would have hated. Does that mean it was bad? Nope, just didn't appeal to me (or many other players for that matter, ZING!)

 

As for the constant "People would play SWTOR if it wasn't Star Wars!" I ask this: SO WHAT?! It IS Start Wars. Saying "if it wasn't Star Wars..." is meaningless because that is part of what people like. So it's part of the game, and part of the enjoyment.

[Callaron]

This game is doing better than some others. As it is I remember specifically a lot of people claiming Wildstar would destroy this game and force it to shut down in months. They said its devs "cared" and would make sure a "disaster" like this game would never happen again. HOWEVER, despite stuff including "cross server at launch" and "40 man raids" in the end the devs have had to announce server mergers IN HALF THE TIME IT TOOK SWTOR TO GET TO THAT POINT. Say what you want about this game, its made mistakes, but its still fared pretty well despite what others may have you believe, and compared to the competitors.

 

 

To be fair I knew the Wildstar claims were full of crap when the games own devs claimed "one day a game will come along and beat WoW" and heavily implied it would be them.

 

To be honest most of the SWTOR haters have moved on, even if you mention the game on MMORPG.com these days you'll find quite a few people supporting the game, and it used to have a high concentration of "haters".

A lot of players have even come back. Now it's mostly just SWG vets that are proclaiming TOR's the worst failure evah, and the Anti-Christ to boot.

 

oh please please please hold your breath!!!!!

 

See you in a couple of months!

Edited September 22, 2014 by Callaron

[WSRB]

You know, I've been playing Wildstar since the beta. I think there is a lot of fantastic things going on there: paths are an interesting addition; not being hard so much as it's eliminated the hand holdy-ness that has become so prevalent in video games is an absolute breath of fresh air; the combat is fast and fun; and the graphics, lore and stories create the feeling of playing within the world of a really cool Saturday morning cartoon.

 

That having been said, and as much as I love the game, unless the devs at Carbine pull off a miracle with their next game update I honestly don't see it making it to 2016, regardless of whether or not they move to some time of free to play model. I really don't. More than any other "boom to bust" MMO launch of the last five years, the fault for the rapid loss of players is squarely the fault of the Developers than it is on "changing market forces" or whatever external forces you want to blame. There is the saying that insanity is defined as doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results, and NC/Carbine did exactly that with Wildstar, only worse: they saw all the mistakes the others had made, made plans to avoid those mistakes, and then ignored the plan and did what all the others did.

 

As much as you see raiders complaining tedious endgame grinds, they weren't the ones who began the exodus: it was solo/non-raiders, who had been assured that for the first time there was going to be content and progression for them at max level, were the ones who began leaving without a word. They'd been lied to yet again, only it was even worse: instead of reaching a dead end within two or three weeks of hitting max level, this time the best gear that they were ever going to see was available on the auction house the moment they hit level 50 because there was no real progression planned for them, and alt-ing is a tedious/unrewarding process due to the complete lack of variation in leveling. The majority of these players don't give an MMO a second chance, so now NC/Carbine are left the "hardcore raiders" ("hardcore" yet they find the raiding attunement process too difficult) whose numbers are not sufficient enough to support a triple A MMO. "Casual players", aka "the silent majority", don't trust these guys any more and it's a huge uphill battle that they're looking at to get them back, whether they go free to play or not.

 

I would love to be wrong about my prediction because I honestly do enjoy Wildstar, but even with the players having free transfers to consolidate on certain servers before the magaservers are in place, more and more players are leaving. Yeah a bunch will come back to check out Drop 3 (including me), but from all indications they're still going to find too much of what drove them away to begin with: too much RNG, a tedious raiding attunement process, and no meaningful endgame progression for non-raiders. I'd love to be wrong, but even when they change their business plan (which I expect sometime from November to January), I think that NCSoft will still be announcing server closures by late-September next year to sunset the game by December 2015.

[Heal-To-Full]

The majority of these players don't give an MMO a second chance, so now NC/Carbine are left the "hardcore raiders" ("hardcore" yet they find the raiding attunement process too difficult)

Never made it that far, but from the people I know who have, the challenge in the attunement process is not the one designed into it; rather it's the large number of show-stopping bugs in the game that make some of the instance-based requirements impossible to complete as intended, barring one from advancing unless they're in a guild that knows the problem, knows a workaround and can commit the resources to perform it.

[nkarabats]

as for eso....never buy an mmo that is coming to consoles also.