2nd star wars mmo

[Heat-Wave]

200k subs? Where are you getting that info?

 

EA stopped reporting sub numbers when it dropped below 500k...

 

If a million people are logging in each month, in a F2P game, it strikes me as reasonable that 1 out of 5 people are a sub.

 

I'd be open to other reasonable suggestions, it might be 300k or even 400k. I don't believe it is any higher than that, surely not from all the F2P people I come across in the game.

[Heat-Wave]

There has been talk of a second Star Wars The Old Republic that the developers have talked about. I've read a little about it. It's still in the infancy stages, right now. And about 5 years from launch. The things that they need to do in the next game is a lot, in my opinion. I will name a couple things they need to get rid of, or change. First get rid of Alacrity, it's useless. Second, better character face and body modification from the start. And my last point, for now, is a much better, saner, and workable crafting system. I would make companions who didn't have efficiency in one particular crew skill or another. Rather, those would come as time, affection, and crafting/gathering come along.

 

Alacrity isn't useless, it is very nice to have as a healer, who is the only role that should take it.

 

I agree on the character models, those could use some work... Perhaps one of the challenges is to avoid having a million and one 3D models in the game, if having them all more or less the same is easier on the game engine, that is understandable...

 

If Bioware could somehow ensure that everyone had a quad core system with 16GB of RAM and a 3GB add in video card, then yea, they could do some amazing stuff.

 

But at the end of the day, they have to program this game to work on Intel integrated graphics and/or AMD dual core CPUs (both of which suck).

 

It would be nice if there were a dual tier system, one graphic engine for crappy graphics and CPUs and another for high end, but that just isn't likely to happen. The dev resources to do it would be better put into content, I think most people would agree with that.

[Callaron]

Given the fate of SWG and that SWTOR manages to stay afloat solely because of the store; it's unlikely anyone, anywhere, will be beating the doors down to invest in another Star Wars MMO. For whatever reason, the license just can't hold a sizable audience in this format.

 

BioWare (or whomever) would be better served putting resources into another KOTOR / Star Wars single-player game. Huge up-front profit and no maintenance staff or long-term support.

 

Step into 2014 bro, they've earned their initial expenses back a long time ago and have been operating at a profit for years.

There are plenty of MMO developers out there who'd love to get the chance to "fail" so hard.

 

Next up: the guy who makes a stupid MacDonalds analogy.

[Heat-Wave]

BTW, regarding sub numbers... anyone notice that EA touted the 1 million logins per month, and not the number of hours player, number of subs, or anything else?

 

That means that every person who just logs in to play for an hour and quits, counts... every person who comes back every so often to try it again for a few hours, only to leave again, counts...

 

I have no idea what percentage of players that might be, but wouldn't average number of hours played, or sub numbers, actually mean more?

[Heat-Wave]

Step into 2014 bro, they've earned their initial expenses back a long time ago and have been operating at a profit for years.

There are plenty of MMO developers out there who'd love to get the chance to "fail" so hard.

 

Next up: the guy who makes a stupid MacDonalds analogy.

 

If this were all that EA did, then sure, that might make sense.

 

But that isn't how it works at the corporate level for publicly owned companies.

 

The fact is, SWTOR did not have an attach rate that EA was hoping for, the sub numbers bleed very fast the first 6 months and they were not prepared for that. When a company invests $150 million into a game like this, they are looking for more than to "make a profit", they want to hit it out of the park.

 

Keep in mind that EA funds things that don't make money, some of the profit from the hits has to pay for those. There is also the issue in how profits are accounted for and what the cost of investment is.

 

Just making a profit isn't always enough.

 

If SWTOR had 2 million subs right now, I think we'd be seeing major expansions every year, and minor ones every 8 weeks. EA would be going after WoW in a big way, but as it stands, they understand that isn't going to happen, so they are invested a small amount of money to keep the game open and return a modest profit, with the understanding that Battlefield 5 is going to produce a better return on investment than major expansions for SWTOR will.

[Callaron]

EA already said that they adjusted their expectations and are pleased with the results shortly after the game went F2P.

Not much more to say than that, other than that of course they were disappointed that they couldn't dethrone WoW, every MMO developer has felt that bitter sting of defeat. (And will most likely continue to feel it for a while longer)

[Darth_Wicked]

* snip *

Star Wars: The Old Republic needs only 500K subscribers - EA

CEO John Riccitiello claims that the forthcoming sci-fi MMORPG will be "substantially profitable" with just a half-million subscribers.

 

And that was before(!) launch, without the Cartel Market. You need to try again.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Arkerus]

If this were all that EA did, then sure, that might make sense.

 

But that isn't how it works at the corporate level for publicly owned companies.

 

The fact is, SWTOR did not have an attach rate that EA was hoping for, the sub numbers bleed very fast the first 6 months and they were not prepared for that. When a company invests $150 million into a game like this, they are looking for more than to "make a profit", they want to hit it out of the park.

 

Keep in mind that EA funds things that don't make money, some of the profit from the hits has to pay for those. There is also the issue in how profits are accounted for and what the cost of investment is.

 

Just making a profit isn't always enough.

 

If SWTOR had 2 million subs right now, I think we'd be seeing major expansions every year, and minor ones every 8 weeks. EA would be going after WoW in a big way, but as it stands, they understand that isn't going to happen, so they are invested a small amount of money to keep the game open and return a modest profit, with the understanding that Battlefield 5 is going to produce a better return on investment than major expansions for SWTOR will.

 

A lot of talking with no point. No on is debating how corporate profit or investments work. Can you clarify what point you are making?

 

If there is any debate to this game staying around or long term profitability, it's well established this game is doing more than "just ok."

Edited September 5, 2014 by Arkerus

[Heat-Wave]

Star Wars: The Old Republic needs only 500K subscribers - EA

 

 

And that was before(!) launch, without the Cartel Market. You need to try again.

 

Two things...

 

First, I don't think they have 500k anymore, or they'd be talking about it...

 

Second, you picked out the headline without providing the meat and potatos:

 

"We previously described to folks that 500,000 subscribers saw the game as substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing that we would write home about," he said. "[but] anything north of 1 million subscribers is a very profitable business."

 

Notice the "not the kind of think that we would write home about", and the comment that what they were hoping for was north of 1 million subs...

 

It didn't go F2P for no reason you know.

[Heat-Wave]

If there is any debate to this game staying around or long term profitability, it's well established this game is doing more than "just ok."

 

I would disagree with your view there... It is NOT well established...

 

What is clear is that the money is not being pumped back into the game... It cost about $150 million to make, it made (gross of course) more than that last year, yet we haven't seen anything remotely come out in the past year that indicates the same level of development is taking place.

 

$50 million would get us 8 more class stories of similar length to what launched. Clearly that isn't being spent.

 

GSF and GSH together appear to have cost about $5 million, give or take.

 

It is a very small amount of money compared to what the CM is bringing in.

[theUndead]

Given the fate of SWG and that SWTOR manages to stay afloat solely because of the store; it's unlikely anyone, anywhere, will be beating the doors down to invest in another Star Wars MMO. For whatever reason, the license just can't hold a sizable audience in this format.

 

BioWare (or whomever) would be better served putting resources into another KOTOR / Star Wars single-player game. Huge up-front profit and no maintenance staff or long-term support.

 

I disagree with this. I do not believe this game is afloat just by the market. I believe this game stands up on it's own merits including the store. More importantly, exactly what do you mean by "can't hold a sizable audience in this format"? Are you referring to the time commitments of MMO players?

[Arkerus]

I would disagree with your view there... It is NOT well established...

 

What is clear is that the money is not being pumped back into the game... It cost about $150 million to make, it made (gross of course) more than that last year, yet we haven't seen anything remotely come out in the past year that indicates the same level of development is taking place.

 

$50 million would get us 8 more class stories of similar length to what launched. Clearly that isn't being spent.

 

GSF and GSH together appear to have cost about $5 million, give or take.

 

It is a very small amount of money compared to what the CM is bringing in.

 

 

All I need is...

 

Citation needed. Amusing though....

 

Classic "opinion or conjecture presented as fact" argument. Please continue. What will you bring up next?

 

I get my facts from public information, nothing more, nothing less. Everything else is armchair analyst hubaloo.

[tdmaha]

EA stopped reporting sub numbers when it dropped below 500k...

 

If a million people are logging in each month, in a F2P game, it strikes me as reasonable that 1 out of 5 people are a sub.

 

I'd be open to other reasonable suggestions, it might be 300k or even 400k. I don't believe it is any higher than that, surely not from all the F2P people I come across in the game.

 

Wow that big pile of crap up there is really creating a heat-wave...

 

So you say 200k until called out now you are up to 400k?

[Jrr_hypernova]

Here's a thought, since The Old Republic isn't considered part of the Star Wars Legends canon at this point, you can remove many logical inconsistencies by simply asserting that TOR is in fact an alternate universe right in the same timeline as the movies.

 

Think about it, it never made much sense that TOR has the same tech by and large, that weapons of planetary destruction are just as available if not better, that 3000 years go by and the only real advancement is that cloning en mass is easy. I've heard the argument that the galaxy hit an apex in terms of tech, but I'm going to come right out and call bull. Even in the dark ages of the last 2000 years, humanity has progressed by leaps and bounds if you look into what the Arab world was doing during the time of European medieval-ism.

 

What the Old Republic does instead is that via an alternate universe you get a glimpse into the possible workings of the prime universe by which Star Wars operates. Consider Alderaan, a planet of nobles, it would have been boring had they done it in a film without the civil war going on. it's still kind of boring in this game. But by the virtue of an all out civil war, Alderaan carries enough interest to get a glimpse into how it must have worked prior to its destruction via the Death Star. How about the Sith? The Old Republic offers a better glimpse into the Sith and how they operate and their philosophies in a way the movies could not nor could have the time to explain unless you wanted a very boring prequel of a prequel.

 

Oh and as far as the Death Star goes in case somebody thinks that is somehow superior tech. Nah, that's just a basic necessity to Galactic conquest when you don't have the force sensitive manpower that the Sith have in The Old Republic. If you play the Jedi Knight story line, there are plenty of instances of world dooming tech that is just as powerful and in some ways better, but it certainly wouldn't have fit the needs of Palpetine. The Death Star is a feat of engineering and resources, not a technological leap forward.

 

my god you really think rendering a planet uninhabitable and destroying it it so utterly the gravity holding it together is the same thing? there an energy difference of several thousand orders of magnitude there. Think light bulb vs nuke. the energy the death star would have used to blow up alderaan would have been the same as the sun gives off in a week and you think the planet prison or one of the other TOR super weapons is even in the same league?

[Darth_Wicked]

Two things...

 

First, I don't think they have 500k anymore, or they'd be talking about it...

 

Second, you picked out the headline without providing the meat and potatos:

 

"We previously described to folks that 500,000 subscribers saw the game as substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing that we would write home about," he said. "[but] anything north of 1 million subscribers is a very profitable business."

 

Notice the "not the kind of think that we would write home about", and the comment that what they were hoping for was north of 1 million subs...

 

It didn't go F2P for no reason you know.

 

You missed the point: The game with 500k subscribers was to be profitable enough.

 

This even before(!!!) the CM.

 

Regardless, I've provided an official statement from an EA rep. You on the other hand - as usual - have this habit of trying to pass personal "ASSUMPTIONS" as some sort or "EVIDENCE".

Edited September 5, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[SirTwist]

Have you played Star Trek Online? That has a far more complicated body system than SWTOR, and it can handle them with less resources needed. I will not, ever, say that their system is perfect. It is, however, better than SWTOR's.

[Floredon]

I would totally play an MMORPG based on Darths and Droids. Cheddar Monks everywhere. With blasters. And laser swords. And rolls.

[mokkh]

how do you guys feel about a second mmo in the episode 7 universe or do we just stay in the swtor world forever? Some of us like to be current!

 

There is nothing current about "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..."

[Desolaytore]

how do you guys feel about a second mmo in the episode 7 universe or do we just stay in the swtor world forever? Some of us like to be current!

 

Wouldn't that be a Galaxies 2.0 ?

 

I would like sw mmo in that era again but I don't want EA running it. Don't want another cash shop mmo.

[Callaron]

Wouldn't that be a Galaxies 2.0 ?

 

I would like sw mmo in that era again but I don't want EA running it. Don't want another cash shop mmo.

 

I hate to say it but... pretty much all MMOs are cash shop MMOs these days, with a rare few exceptions (and it still remains to be seen whether they remain exceptions since some of them have only been out for a few months).

You as well get used to the idea.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Callaron

[Nightfalll]

Im almost certain theres another Star Wars MMO in development/Pre dev right now..

 

 

 

Remember, 2015 is a HUGGGGGGE year for Star Wars. Its popularity will be restored. Toys, shows etc will be hot property again.

[hunterraaze]

The ability to destroy a planet once every 24 hours (first version) or once every few hours (second version) with a single shot laser, is indeed beyond any tech in the TOR era.

 

Many people have not put it together, but the Emperor wasn't really building Death Stars for terror. That was the obvious purpose, but not the real one. If that is the goal, you only need 1 of them...

 

He was building dozens of them...

 

He needed them to fight the Yuuzhan Vong whom he knew was coming. Thrawn was made aware of them from Kinman Doriana:

 

"There's an invasion coming. A massive assault force of dark ships, shadowy figures, and weapons of great power, based on organic technology of a sort we've never seen before. We believe these Far Outsiders, as we call them, already have a foothold at the far edge of the galaxy, and even now have scouting parties seeking information on worlds and peoples to conquer."

 

The first of their probes arrived in our Galaxy in 3997 BBY (even before the time of TOR). Canderous Ordo was the first group of humans (and in this case, Mandalorians) to make contact with the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

Palpatine had knowledge of them by at least 27 BBY, he ordered the Outbound Flight Project destroyed to prevent its occupants from falling into the hands of the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

--------

 

The real purpose of the Death Stars was to destroy the WorldShips of the Yuuzhan Vong, not to blow up valuable planets of the Empire. If you've read up on that invasion, you'll know that even Super Star Destroyers were largely ineffective against the WorldShips.

 

The estimate is that about 365 trillion sentients were killed in the invasion, Palpatine was building up the Imperial Navy and the Death Stars to try and prevent this.

 

So frankly, the Rebel's actions caused the worst loss of life in the history of the galaxy. Nothing Palpatine did was remotely in the same league as the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

You just destroyed my mind.

[ValeGreiger]

The ability to destroy a planet once every 24 hours (first version) or once every few hours (second version) with a single shot laser, is indeed beyond any tech in the TOR era.

 

Many people have not put it together, but the Emperor wasn't really building Death Stars for terror. That was the obvious purpose, but not the real one. If that is the goal, you only need 1 of them...

 

He was building dozens of them...

 

He needed them to fight the Yuuzhan Vong whom he knew was coming. Thrawn was made aware of them from Kinman Doriana:

 

"There's an invasion coming. A massive assault force of dark ships, shadowy figures, and weapons of great power, based on organic technology of a sort we've never seen before. We believe these Far Outsiders, as we call them, already have a foothold at the far edge of the galaxy, and even now have scouting parties seeking information on worlds and peoples to conquer."

 

The first of their probes arrived in our Galaxy in 3997 BBY (even before the time of TOR). Canderous Ordo was the first group of humans (and in this case, Mandalorians) to make contact with the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

Palpatine had knowledge of them by at least 27 BBY, he ordered the Outbound Flight Project destroyed to prevent its occupants from falling into the hands of the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

--------

 

The real purpose of the Death Stars was to destroy the WorldShips of the Yuuzhan Vong, not to blow up valuable planets of the Empire. If you've read up on that invasion, you'll know that even Super Star Destroyers were largely ineffective against the WorldShips.

 

The estimate is that about 365 trillion sentients were killed in the invasion, Palpatine was building up the Imperial Navy and the Death Stars to try and prevent this.

 

So frankly, the Rebel's actions caused the worst loss of life in the history of the galaxy. Nothing Palpatine did was remotely in the same league as the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

Well this might be off-topic but you piqued my interest: Why didn't Palpatine simply informed the Rebels about this? Stands to reason if he showed them evidence of third-party invaders, maybe the empire and the rebels would've put aside their differences to repel the third-party invaders.

[Heat-Wave]

Well this might be off-topic but you piqued my interest: Why didn't Palpatine simply informed the Rebels about this? Stands to reason if he showed them evidence of third-party invaders, maybe the empire and the rebels would've put aside their differences to repel the third-party invaders.

 

That is a fair point, and the question is, would the democracy minded Rebels have been willing to exterminate a whole race?

 

Probably not... After all, Alpha Red was created by New Republic scientists to exterminate the invaders and the Jedi did not agree and a rebel Jedi destroyed the project.

 

The question for any reasonable people is... Is there ever a time when peace cannot be had? When genocide is a reasonable option? It would have saved 365 trillion people, is that enough of a reason to wipe out a race?

 

I don't know the answer, I have an opinion, but that doesn't make it "the" answer.

 

Perhaps Palatine felt that only a single minded ruthless leader could do what needed to be done?

[AmericanNate]

Im almost certain theres another Star Wars MMO in development/Pre dev right now..

 

 

 

Remember, 2015 is a HUGGGGGGE year for Star Wars. Its popularity will be restored. Toys, shows etc will be hot property again.

 

Wasn't It on these very forums that it was revealed that EA had exclusive rights to create Star Wars based mmos? I'm almost positive I read that. So, I don't see how that's even possible considering that information.