Conquest and Screwing PVEr's

[Khevar]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone being bothered to do old irrevelant Flashpoints repeatedly IF, mind you, FP rewards were normalized to 500 as they should be. But no, instead of doing that they make them Weekly 1000's.

 

As someone who's solo'd Ess, Battle of Ilum and False Emperor I can tell you easy it's not a quick hop and a skip through and is brutally slow to the point I could do multiple PvP/GSF in the time it took to do one.

So. It's "brutally slow" to do FPs, but you want to cut the conquest points in half?

 

I'm asking for more variety. You're asking for more grind.

 

Lawdy, I hope Bioware has you on ignore.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Khevar

[gabrielbr]

they completley broke ilum for this conquest event what it is is the guilds that were behind couldnt handle it and now everyone else has to pay for it. I mean look at ilum compared to the other planets balmorra has 19 heroics and pvp bonus and gsf bonus same with hoth ilum had none of those things just the bonus to fps and 2 count them 2 heroics oh yeah did i mention no crafting bonus get yours **** togeteher bioware or i know alot of people personally who are gonna unsubscribe enough people do and youll be out of a job

[ryniloym]

they completley broke ilum for this conquest event what it is is the guilds that were behind couldnt handle it and now everyone else has to pay for it. I mean look at ilum compared to the other planets balmorra has 19 heroics and pvp bonus and gsf bonus same with hoth ilum had none of those things just the bonus to fps and 2 count them 2 heroics oh yeah did i mention no crafting bonus get yours **** togeteher bioware or i know alot of people personally who are gonna unsubscribe enough people do and youll be out of a job

 

can i have your stuff? lolol....

 

out of a job....heh. they survived the mass exodus of 2012, they'll survive the loss of you and your 8 free to play friends.

[paspinall]

I just don't feel like compiling conquest points by PVE activities should equal PVP activities. Just on the face of it I would feel that PVP activities deserve higher recognition with respect to conquest activities.

 

I mean, that is how it has been in most games with some type of factional contest....pve content has been supplemental. Folks that wish to only PVE can contribute to the cause, but the folks that really make it happen are the ones that risk life and limb.

 

That doesn't mean I am against the idea of high points for Flashpoints as they are now. Id be fine with that, or fine with the nerf. I'm just pointing out how I view the conquest system.

 

except this isnt a PvP centric game, and on PvE servers there are a lot of people who dont PvP at all, not to mention this isnt just faction vs faction is it.

[Versath]

Because conquering a planet shouldn't involve fighting some sort of war, PVE outside of crafting/world PVP quest area's shouldn't even be apart of planetary conquests.

[paspinall]

Because conquering a planet shouldn't involve fighting some sort of war, PVE outside of crafting/world PVP quest area's shouldn't even be apart of planetary conquests.

 

Because of course wanting to conquer a planet makes all the people who already live there stop existing of course.. thats what the PvE is.

[TravelersWay]

Because conquering a planet shouldn't involve fighting some sort of war, PVE outside of crafting/world PVP quest area's shouldn't even be apart of planetary conquests.

 

Got news for you pal, there are many different ways to fight a war, or to contribute to said war. Welcome to the 21st Century. Aside from that, this is a game ... a story driven PvE centric game. There's no problem in ensuring that each aspect of gameplay is a well represented and viable way to achieve the goal.

[Twin]

It's kinda funny tbh, how when PvPers ask for things like increased WZ payouts to avoid being forced to PvE to be viable for PvP - the responses are often "Do dailies or craft and stop crying" and simular replies.

 

Where are these replies from the PvE community now?

 

However, i will be the greater man and not say "Do WZ's or craft and stop crying". Because just like when it's the other way around i understand you and agree that there should be equally viable ways to earn conquest-points - unless they're considering it to actually be a PvP feature. (Which i dont think they do?)

 

So yes, i support PvE and PvP being -equal- in ways to gain Conq-points.

[GadgetDon]

Again, for those who are saying it's just GREAT that PVE isn't repeatable - almost all of the complaints can be fixed by tying the repeatable flashpoint award to the Group Finder. Makes sure that it's roughly near your level, avoids the "stealth to the end and invite people in" aspect, and even adds the queue time. It also means that we can earn conquest points by doing something (a) interesting and (b) with rewards like XP and useful drops.

 

Yes, this week, you can get a lot of points by doing heroics against foes so gray they're almost transparent, hacking and slashing with no challenge, no interest, no fun. Not all weeks will be on planets with this many heroics and in any case, I'd really like to do something enjoyable. Just like you'd like to do something enjoyable and so aren't happy when PVErs are entering warzones with the goal of being killed out ASAP. Beyond back to back rounds of Black Talon against gray foes was "unfair" it also was "unfun".

 

And as for "you can just PVP" - no. That's not an option. First, my reflexes and such are plenty good for PVE, not great for PVP and would be hopeless at GSF. Second, it's a factor I call the AAAP, The Average Alpha (mumble) Rating, the percentage of people you encounter who want to prove they are the Alpha (mumble). In multiple games, I've found the AAAP for PVP is just way too high for my enjoyment. In fact, another thread is about how people are griefing the attempt to kill the Commanders, which is the AAAP in action. It's possible the AAAP for PVE is as high, but there's less motivation to play alpha (mumble) games and even less opportunity to ruin one's gaming experience.

 

Now that's just me. Maybe other people's tolerance for dealing with alpha (mumble)s is higher than mine, maybe they can just accept it as part of the competition as they pit their ability to be the alpha (mumble) against the opposition. For me, the AAAP of real life is high enough and I play games to get away from it.

 

Now if Bioware wants to say "some of you have the wrong idea, Conquest is supposed to be a PVP activity, the PVE stuff is just a bit of flavoring", that would change things. I'd say that they presented it very poorly, that they have enough PVE that it seems like you're supposed to be able to be successful with just PVE (just made a few short sighted decisions that limit that ability unpleasantly) and should probably remove the PVE completely. Or frankly, they may be thinking they don't care if people participate or not, in which case I'd really question all the resources they put into creating it.

 

But barring any such statement, the system should be designed so that both PVErs and PVPers can participate while still progressing with the larger game, it does not become the total focus of the game, and people are having fun in the activities as opposed to going "wheee, look at us on the leaderboard". That seems to be what BW would want out of a new addition to the game.

[Alssaran]

Alright, I've been silent for most of the week. I don't like calling out mistakes.

 

However, now I want to call out one. If people would stop making threads with agressive headlines, such as "Bioware is screwing us!", and actually make a post like: "Bioware, a few ideas for Conquest" or "PvE and Conquest: A discussion.".

 

Nobody is trying to screw anyone. Bioware is trying out solutions. There was a dire need for a solution to the lvl 10 FP problem. Running Esseles lvl 10 with a 55 180 geared character can't be an option to gain Conquest points.

 

The new solution might not be perfect, but it is a bit better than what we had before. Now we need some tuning. I'd say: Give 500-1.000 points for a completed lvl 55 HM FP. There is no need to restrict this to once per day/once per legacy. If people are really going there to farm and do 55 HM, it is alright.

[GadgetDon]

Alright, I've been silent for most of the week. I don't like calling out mistakes.

 

However, now I want to call out one. If people would stop making threads with agressive headlines, such as "Bioware is screwing us!", and actually make a post like: "Bioware, a few ideas for Conquest" or "PvE and Conquest: A discussion.".

 

Nobody is trying to screw anyone. Bioware is trying out solutions. There was a dire need for a solution to the lvl 10 FP problem. Running Esseles lvl 10 with a 55 180 geared character can't be an option to gain Conquest points.

 

The new solution might not be perfect, but it is a bit better than what we had before. Now we need some tuning. I'd say: Give 500-1.000 points for a completed lvl 55 HM FP. There is no need to restrict this to once per day/once per legacy. If people are really going there to farm and do 55 HM, it is alright.

 

That somewhat reasonable, except that it's not only limited to level 55s (meaning no characters leveling up can participate, players who are preferred or FTP and didn't unlock the expansion can participate, and if you haven't gotten geared up, you really shouldn't participate). So that's why I'd say tie it to the group finder in general.

 

And yes, I'd say the current system does screw PVErs. I don't think that's the intent, but that's the result.

Edited August 31, 2014 by GadgetDon

[DawnAskham]

That somewhat reasonable, except that it's not only limited to level 55s (meaning no characters leveling up can participate, players who are preferred or FTP and didn't unlock the expansion can participate, and if you haven't gotten geared up, you really shouldn't participate). So that's why I'd say tie it to the group finder in general.

 

And yes, I'd say the current system does screw PVErs. I don't think that's the intent, but that's the result.

 

I agree - I don't think the intent is to make one more or less attractive than the other, but rather to try and balance the time / rewards.

 

I also think the root problem is systemic / technical, and either Bioware didn't have the time / budget to address, or didn't feel it was important enough to warrant the development required to address.

 

Conquest appears to sit on top of existing rewards and tracking systems, including Missions and Achievements.

 

Missions are either once and done, repeatable once per day, repeatable once per week, or infinitely repeatable.

 

All FPs have a base mission which is infidelity repeatable, GF has a daily mission (one for each category of FP), and the Fleet terminal has additional daily / weekly missions.

 

For FPs, using the existing Mission system to award Conquest is problematic as while the GF mission is level appropriate and requires using the queue, is isn't repeatable, while the individual FP mission is repeatable but isn't level appropriate (and suffers from players gaming the system by inviting people in at the last trigger).

 

For PVP, this is not a problem as everyone must queue to join a WZ, the queue ensures the group is matched or bolstered to be level appropriate, the system handles awards at the end of the match after tabulating the score / metals (no inviting people at the last moment), and it is infinitely repeatable.

 

The alternative tracking option they seem to be using outside the Mission / GF / PVP queue systems is that which tracks achievements, and which said tracking is done at the legacy level, not the character level.

 

This is a failed option for numerous reasons. Every single item that is a once per event becomes restricted to once per legacy per cycle, simply because the system cannot or does not track at the character level.

 

It makes little sense that a 'Kill n mobs on planet Y' objective would be restricted to once per legacy. It makes even less sense when that objective is something like 'Complete specific flashpoint'' and would probably have a mass revolt if objectives like PVP WZs were handled the same way.

 

At this point, they really need to balance the two - which most likely means modifying the systems such that objectives like 'Complete specific flashpoint' and 'Kill n mobs on plant Y' are tracked and awarded completion at the character level, and things like level appropriate FPs done through GF are repeatable.

 

They should also just be honest and come out and say if they have development / system issues that make doing so a challenge, and commit to undertaking the necessary development to ensure a balanced and enjoyable conquest system.

 

The other alternative if Bioware is too lazy or cheap to do the necessary development work would be to tie all PVP / GSF objectives to daily / weekly missions just like the FPs and OPs.

 

Only level appropriate FPs and OPs are equal to WZs and GSF, as only level appropriate FPs and OPs provide meaningful and useable rewards for a players character progression.

 

So saying the two paths are already equal because someone who prefers PVE can go kill grey mobs or do lowbie heroics or craft useless items is disingenuous.

 

Those activities are NOT PVE, they are just useless time sinks designed to keep players grinding by recycling trivial content - and as such, are just as applicable to the PVP crowd as they are to the PVE crowd.

Edited August 31, 2014 by DawnAskham

[Grayseven]

I think you are missing the real point.

 

The point is to give guilds something to do together and to let guilds compete with other guilds.

 

This isn't about personal glory. It's about working towards a goal as a guild. In this aspect, it works. Our guild has always done a lot together but now we have even more incentive since we want to see our name atop the leader board.

 

Yeah, some of the content is sub-level but there are rewards there to give us something to shoot for. For a 55, it's about efficiency and speed and maybe helping guild mates gear up low level alts along the way.

 

The Conquest isn't about individuals and their stable of alts, it's about people doing things together and playing the entire game instead of ignoring one or more aspects of it. The legacy limits mean Guilds with active players working together will top the boards instead of a few people with multiple 55 alts doing so. Alt players are thrown a bone with Personal Conquest rewards without unbalancing the Guild competition...as long as bugs and exploits are taken care of anyway.

 

You have to separate the two. Personal Conquest is a completely different animal from Guild Conquest. Personal is about one toon reaching 35k while Guild is about racking up as many points as you can AS A GUILD. You don't cap at 35k which means a Guild member with one 55 can still help his guild by doing guild stuff with guild mates and a player with multiple characters can try to reach the 35k goal on all of them BUT WILL HAVE THE SAME GUILD POINT TOTAL AS THE PLAYER WITH ONE 55 GIVING THE SAME AMOUNT OF EFFORT...with two exceptions.

 

That is the key. All effort being equal, it doesn't matter to the guild if you do it on one alt or many.

 

Now, that being said, the Alt player will get a slight edge in a couple of areas: Crafting and Daily FP's. Obviously the more crafters you have the better the point opportunity and being able to do dailies on multiple toons is also an advantage, but EA/BW has to do something since they have encouraged alts since the game launched and to shaft them now wouldn't be a good idea.

 

Of course no plan survives contact with the enemy or, in this case, the players and so we will see balance tweaks in Conquest just as we see them in every other aspect of the game.

 

In all cases, exploits and unintended systems need to be fixed ASAP.

[Khevar]

Please tell me how making a former infinitely repeatable that was exploited in one (invite other players 3/4 of the way through the FP so instead of 1 person getting 4 people do) specific way into a Weekly is "increasing variety".

Don't be a fool. I'm not saying 2.9c increased variety. Of course it didn't.

 

What I am saying I want MORE variety than we have now. More different things to do.

 

You're complaining because you can't run the same easy flashpoints over and over and over. That is just a grind -- there's nothing good about that whatsoever. You want the daily 3 flashpoint-per-day limits removed, so you can go back to a grind. Doing the easiest, quickest, least-effort-possible flashpoints on repeat.

 

/shudder

 

Now, on the other hand, I would prefer Bioware to add more things to do. World Bosses and Named Champion mobs are one easy thing they could add. They're already in the game -- why not add them? Perhaps other things as well.

[DawnAskham]

I think you are missing the real point.

 

The point is to give guilds something to do together and to let guilds compete with other guilds.

 

This isn't about personal glory. It's about working towards a goal as a guild. In this aspect, it works. Our guild has always done a lot together but now we have even more incentive since we want to see our name atop the leader board.

 

Yeah, some of the content is sub-level but there are rewards there to give us something to shoot for. For a 55, it's about efficiency and speed and maybe helping guild mates gear up low level alts along the way.

 

The Conquest isn't about individuals and their stable of alts, it's about people doing things together and playing the entire game instead of ignoring one or more aspects of it. The legacy limits mean Guilds with active players working together will top the boards instead of a few people with multiple 55 alts doing so. Alt players are thrown a bone with Personal Conquest rewards without unbalancing the Guild competition...as long as bugs and exploits are taken care of anyway.

 

You have to separate the two. Personal Conquest is a completely different animal from Guild Conquest. Personal is about one toon reaching 35k while Guild is about racking up as many points as you can AS A GUILD. You don't cap at 35k which means a Guild member with one 55 can still help his guild by doing guild stuff with guild mates and a player with multiple characters can try to reach the 35k goal on all of them BUT WILL HAVE THE SAME GUILD POINT TOTAL AS THE PLAYER WITH ONE 55 GIVING THE SAME AMOUNT OF EFFORT...with two exceptions.

 

That is the key. All effort being equal, it doesn't matter to the guild if you do it on one alt or many.

 

Now, that being said, the Alt player will get a slight edge in a couple of areas: Crafting and Daily FP's. Obviously the more crafters you have the better the point opportunity and being able to do dailies on multiple toons is also an advantage, but EA/BW has to do something since they have encouraged alts since the game launched and to shaft them now wouldn't be a good idea.

 

Of course no plan survives contact with the enemy or, in this case, the players and so we will see balance tweaks in Conquest just as we see them in every other aspect of the game.

 

In all cases, exploits and unintended systems need to be fixed ASAP.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on certain points.

 

To me - the system is unbalanced and tilted in favor of PVP / GSF because regardless of whether a PVP / GSF player plays one character or an army of alts, they can repeat end-game / level appropriate content over and over and over.

 

Thus a PVP player at max level, leveling, playing one character, or playing an army of alts simply keeps doing what they do queuing up for PVP repeatedly and earns both conquest points plus level appropriate progression rewards.

 

A PVE player at max level can run three FPs a day (leveling only two), then they have to do something else that isn't level appropriate (unless they are leveling and happen to be in the range of the heroics for the week) and which does not provide any character progression rewards.

 

Of course as you pointed out, a PVE player could have an army of alts and simply run each one through the content each day, most likely capping each one by the end of the week through the dailies + the weeklies, and net the same points for their guild.

 

So I'll concede it isn't a huge OMG issue, but it does show a lack of foresight or lack of willingness to put in the appropriate level of development to offer the FP / OPs crowd the same options to repeat level appropriate and rewarding content as the PVP / GSF crowd is offered.

[Grayseven]

We'll have to agree to disagree on certain points.

 

To me - the system is unbalanced and tilted in favor of PVP / GSF because regardless of whether a PVP / GSF player plays one character or an army of alts, they can repeat end-game / level appropriate content over and over and over.

 

Thus a PVP player at max level, leveling, playing one character, or playing an army of alts simply keeps doing what they do queuing up for PVP repeatedly and earns both conquest points plus level appropriate progression rewards.

 

A PVE player at max level can run three FPs a day (leveling only two), then they have to do something else that isn't level appropriate (unless they are leveling and happen to be in the range of the heroics for the week) and which does not provide any character progression rewards.

 

Of course as you pointed out, a PVE player could have an army of alts and simply run each one through the content each day, most likely capping each one by the end of the week through the dailies + the weeklies, and net the same points for their guild.

 

So I'll concede it isn't a huge OMG issue, but it does show a lack of foresight or lack of willingness to put in the appropriate level of development to offer the FP / OPs crowd the same options to repeat level appropriate and rewarding content as the PVP / GSF crowd is offered.

 

Then you haven't experienced PvP.

 

I can easily outpoint someone doing just PvP. PvP takes more time for less points while PvE can be done solo. And don't forget crafting, which is limited only by the mats you have and can be done even while you are doing other things for points or offline.

 

PvP will be brought into better balance when wins are counted instead of just completing a match, but ultimately the only way a PvP only player could out point a PvE player is if they put in twice as much time into the game as the PvE player. But unless you've played both GSF and PvP regularly, you have no idea of the amount of time you spend waiting for your queue to pop.

[Khevar]

A PVE player at max level can run three FPs a day (leveling only two), then they have to do something else that isn't level appropriate (unless they are leveling and happen to be in the range of the heroics for the week) and which does not provide any character progression rewards.

I think this is a good point. The heriocs are definitely not level appropriate. It would be nice if there were more options available for things that are not "grey level" activities.

 

But take this situation (the only one I can thing of where the 2.9c changes are actually be a problem).

 

1. There is no PvP-only planet to invade -- and the planet your guild picked had both PvE and PvP bonuses.

2. You and your primary competitors are about the same size (in terms of active members).

3. You're specifically shooting for first place on the leaderboards.

4. You have several hours per day, every day of the week, to devote to conquests.

5. You either don't have any alts, or the alts you do have are not in the same guild.

 

Suddenly the lockouts become a problem.

 

Otherwise, the issue isn't quite as bad as it seems. Consider:

 

a. If your guild invaded a planet without a x2 PvP bonus, you're going to have the advantage.

b. If you're a small guild, you're ****ed anyway, as far as competition goes (just due to how Conquests are set up).

c. If you're not specifically shooting for first place, placing in top 10 is much much easier.

d. If you don't have a ton of time each day, than 3 flashpoints will likely fill much of your playtime.

e. If you have alts in the guild, you can switch to an alt and run flashpoints.

 

In other words, there are solutions for most of the issues presented by the current state of 2.9c and Conquests.

 

This doesn't mean that Conquests are balanced, or shouldn't be changed. As I've said before, I believe that future changes to Conquests would be best served by adding MORE different things to do.

 

But re-establishing the unlimited flashpoints per day for conquests just adds a terrible grind. Too many people will simply pick the easiest, quickest, least effort flashpoint, and run that on repeat. And if your competition is doing it, and you want to win, you're choices are 1) do the same grind, or 2) give up.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Khevar

[ghoul_drool]

I feel the PVE community got screwed with this. Yes, infinitely looping the lowbie flashpoints was perhaps a bad idea. But why not make it a daily? Once per day, just like the heroics on planets. Extra reward for using group finder as usual. But now? It's once. Per week. Per legacy. And that's too much of a nerf. Daily, per character, is the middle ground we're looking for. And while we're at it, the 250 kills on a planet should also be per character, NOT per legacy as it is now.

[Grayseven]

The level appropriate argument has merit, but when you are discussing people running gray level FP's over and over again for points...and then not even running them, more like skipping most of the content...it is a different argument altogether.

 

Sure, it'd be nice if it were level appropriate but just how would you suggest a planetary conquest of a low level planet?

[paspinall]

Then you haven't experienced PvP.

 

I can easily outpoint someone doing just PvP. PvP takes more time for less points while PvE can be done solo. And don't forget crafting, which is limited only by the mats you have and can be done even while you are doing other things for points or offline.

 

PvP will be brought into better balance when wins are counted instead of just completing a match, but ultimately the only way a PvP only player could out point a PvE player is if they put in twice as much time into the game as the PvE player. But unless you've played both GSF and PvP regularly, you have no idea of the amount of time you spend waiting for your queue to pop.

 

ROFLOL, a PvP can though do more in a day than a PvE can simply through the fact theirs arent gated as much by dailies. And even in the weekdays last week I waited like a minute tops before a PvP or GSF popped, and I was churning them out faster than I was many of the PvE content, and I dont even PvP really

[Khevar]

ROFLOL, a PvP can though do more in a day than a PvE can simply through the fact theirs arent gated as much by dailies. And even in the weekdays last week I waited like a minute tops before a PvP or GSF popped, and I was churning them out faster than I was many of the PvE content, and I dont even PvP really

A group of 4 players in a PvE guild invading Balmorra last week could make 75,000 points in 2-3 hours of repeatable daily PvE activities. If they switched to alts, they could do it again and make 150,000 points.

 

How long would it take those same 4 players to do 75 warzones? (without win-trading Ranked PvP)

Edited September 1, 2014 by Khevar

[Grayseven]

ROFLOL, a PvP can though do more in a day than a PvE can simply through the fact theirs arent gated as much by dailies. And even in the weekdays last week I waited like a minute tops before a PvP or GSF popped, and I was churning them out faster than I was many of the PvE content, and I dont even PvP really

 

Wrong, try again. And before you try to spout stupidity, make sure you have done both extensively...your falsehoods are more than easily seen through by anyone who has. Only people who haven't done PvP would believe such crap.

 

The reality is that one PvP match takes a long time. You have to wait for a queue to pop, then you have to complete the match. PvP point payouts are less than PvE in most cases as well.

 

Take Balmorra for example. 9 Heroics take you about 40 minutes to complete for a base point return of 13500 points. In 40 minutes of PvP you might be able to do 2 matches if the queues are popping. That's 3000 points if you are getting 3x points.

 

Last night it was worse for PvP. Even using guild groups on both factions and sync queuing to try to fight one another (we do this every Sunday for bragging rights and fun) we could get one match every 30 minutes from queue to completed match. We didn't have full groups so it took some time for the queue to pop.

 

To match the 40 minutes of PvE it would take a PvP player getting a 3x bonus 180 minutes to get the same amount if he or she can get 20 minutes per match/queue time...which isn't very likely.

 

I'll call BS on your 1 minute pops. While I have at times gotten instant pops the reality is that most pops take much longer.

 

Now, while it is true that given an entire 24 hour period a PvP only person can potentially make more points than a PvE only person, reality again is that everyone needs to sleep and eat and take care of other business.

 

Reality is that the amount of points a PvE player can make in a short period of time is far more realistically achieved than the same amount of points by a PvP only player given the amount of time involved for the PvP only player.

[Transairion]

Don't be a fool. I'm not saying 2.9c increased variety. Of course it didn't.

 

What I am saying I want MORE variety than we have now. More different things to do.

 

You're complaining because you can't run the same easy flashpoints over and over and over. That is just a grind -- there's nothing good about that whatsoever. You want the daily 3 flashpoint-per-day limits removed, so you can go back to a grind. Doing the easiest, quickest, least-effort-possible flashpoints on repeat.

/shudder

 

Now, on the other hand, I would prefer Bioware to add more things to do. World Bosses and Named Champion mobs are one easy thing they could add. They're already in the game -- why not add them? Perhaps other things as well.

 

 

The level of bull in this post astounds me.

 

There's barely any difference between a lvl 55 doing a lvl 10 FP repeatedly, and a lvl 55 queueing up for PvP. They're both grinding points. They're both throwing themselves at content that isn't hard (bull if you think solo queue unranked PvP is "hard", it's either your team slaughters them or the other slaughters you).

 

The difference is:

 

PvPer gets Comms, money, and Conquest Points

 

FP grinder gets Conquest points. That frigging it. What's a level 55 going to do with that lvl 10 Essessles loot that's worth about 100 credits to a vendor? Not even pick it up if they can avoid it. It's completely utterly irrevelant and the only benefit to grinding it at all is the Conquest points.

 

If you HAD actually ran Essessles, you'd know that most of the time is spent mashing spacebar and travelling.

 

Talk, get to bridge, talk some more, go down to engines, talk, fight, talk, go further to engines, talk, LS/DS option, talk, back up to bridge, fight, talk, travel to other ship, talk, fight, talk, fight again, return to another ship, talk, talk some more, return to Fleet.

 

Was it hard? No. Were you going to die? Unlikely. Did running it take forever and make you wanna gut yourself? Sure. Why do you think people found out how to exploit it? Cause running it freaking sucked, that's why.

 

 

But really, tell me how running PvP and GSF over and over and over and over isn't a grind but running a Flashpoint was. Really. Cause it's the same thing. You can even group for PvP and GSF too!

 

 

Now, on the other hand, I would prefer Bioware to add more things to do. World Bosses and Named Champion mobs are one easy thing they could add. They're already in the game -- why not add them? Perhaps other things as well.

 

And again, as I already said this doesn't work. Why?

 

Cause they tried it last week and the Ulgo Seigebreaker was camped 24/7 for Conquest Points. WB's and Named Champs have respawns, and they're just as easy to kill solo so all giving them points does is encourage them to be farmed... which happened. Named champs are already being farmed outside of Conquests for datacrons (especially Quesh as it's about the only source).

 

 

 

If PvE cannot have an unlimited repeatable activity, then PvP and GSF has to be limited to Dailies as well. You can't have it so lopsided.

 

 

 

Wrong, try again. And before you try to spout stupidity, make sure you have done both extensively...your falsehoods are more than easily seen through by anyone who has. Only people who haven't done PvP would believe such crap.

 

The reality is that one PvP match takes a long time. You have to wait for a queue to pop, then you have to complete the match. PvP point payouts are less than PvE in most cases as well.

 

Take Balmorra for example. 9 Heroics take you about 40 minutes to complete for a base point return of 13500 points. In 40 minutes of PvP you might be able to do 2 matches if the queues are popping. That's 3000 points if you are getting 3x points.

 

Last night it was worse for PvP. Even using guild groups on both factions and sync queuing to try to fight one another (we do this every Sunday for bragging rights and fun) we could get one match every 30 minutes from queue to completed match. We didn't have full groups so it took some time for the queue to pop.

 

To match the 40 minutes of PvE it would take a PvP player getting a 3x bonus 180 minutes to get the same amount if he or she can get 20 minutes per match/queue time...which isn't very likely.

 

I'll call BS on your 1 minute pops. While I have at times gotten instant pops the reality is that most pops take much longer.

 

Now, while it is true that given an entire 24 hour period a PvP only person can potentially make more points than a PvE only person, reality again is that everyone needs to sleep and eat and take care of other business.

 

Reality is that the amount of points a PvE player can make in a short period of time is far more realistically achieved than the same amount of points by a PvP only player given the amount of time involved for the PvP only player.

 

 

You need to transfer servers then because apparently your PvP population is in their graves if you takes you that long to get a pop, and 20 minutes a game too. 20?! The only way I see them last that long is if a total deadlock occurs.

 

On the Harbringer GSF is unpopular and I still got a pop within a minute or two of queuing.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Transairion

[Khevar]

The level of bull in this post astounds me.

I think what you're smelling is your own bull.

 

I noticed you were complaining in your other thread about decoration drops, and that HM FPs weren't soloable:

Half of more of old FP's only have a 55 HM, which isn't soloable. Well, maybe a 186 geared tank and a 186 geared healer companion... MAYBE. Only a couple are 50 HM's which are soloable.

You're such a fraud.

 

Had you actually been running HM FPs, through the group finder, with your guildies (or pugged), you'd be getting drops AND Conquest points.

 

But NO, you were running E-Z mode story flashpints:

That frigging it. What's a level 55 going to do with that lvl 10 Essessles loot that's worth about 100 credits to a vendor? Not even pick it up if they can avoid it. It's completely utterly irrevelant and the only benefit to grinding it at all is the Conquest points.

YOU, and people LIKE YOU, are the reason why Bioware made the change in 2.9c.

 

You found the cheapest, easiest, least effort possible to scam the system for as many points as possible.

 

And now you're here to complain about it.

 

 

Well, I'm confident that Bioware will not reverse their decision, and you will remain impeded in your quest for mediocrity.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Khevar

[Transairion]

You're such a fraud.

 

Had you actually been running HM FPs, through the group finder, with your guildies (or pugged), you'd be getting drops AND Conquest points.

 

But NO, you were running E-Z mode story flashpints:

 

HM 50 FP's... through group finder? That fact you can even still queue for those at all baffles me.

 

I was running "EZ mode" because, seemingly unlike you, if I want a decoration I don't want to drag 3 other people in with me then roll off for it. Then do it 3 more times (or more) so everyone gets one. You know when I just can do it alone a few times and then I'm done.

 

I would've gladly done SM Eessles for bonus boss as well... except you can't solo that bonus boss, it's mechanically impossible to activate 2 buttons solo. Black Talon doesn't have that mechanic for... some reason.

 

We actually did plenty of HM FP's together purely for Conquest, moreso afterwards patch since it was one-off. None of us did, NOR WANTED TO grind the repeatable version because it was boring as fudge.

 

 

YOU, and people LIKE YOU, are the reason why Bioware made the change in 2.9c.

 

You found the cheapest, easiest, least effort possible to scam the system for as many points as possible.

 

And now you're here to complain about it.

 

 

 

Well, I'm confident that Bioware will not reverse their decision, and you will remain impeded in your quest for mediocrity.

 

1) Most people who gamed the system did HM False Emperor. That's a 50 HM. They also skipped bosses. You can't really skip bosses on the lvl 10 FP. Which only awarded 1000. The HM 50's awarded 2000 per (1000 for final boss 1000 for bonus). You don't even know what the exploit they fixed was if you were think people were getting high scores for freaking SM lvl 10, lmao.

 

2) I didn't do squat with regards to FP grinding cause I already had the decorations and we didn't invade Ilum so it was a measly 1000 points for a miserable time. After patch c we did run through them all once to at least mark them off for the week.

 

3)Conquest are whoever grinded more. Unfortunatly, that means if there's an exploit people will find it and use it.

 

If running Essless normally is an exploit then freaking playing PvP and GSF is an exploit.

 

 

I never asked for the exploit to get reinstated, but there's a difference between fixing the exploit (simply changing the requirement to all bosses killed instead of final boss) and just making it a Weekly. The exploit is still there... it just can't be done twice.

 

Savvy?

Edited September 2, 2014 by Transairion