Conquest and Screwing PVEr's

[Nergherder]

Oh good. Remove the only viable way for PvE players to earn comparable amounts of points to PvP players. Well this is another garbage feature you've added to the game. It's almost as good as the two level 55 flashpoints you added that nobody ever runs more than once because 55 story mode FPs are utterly worthless to anyone who has been at level 55 for more than the hour or two it takes to complete Oricon.

 

Bang up job all around.

[Khevar]

Oh good. Remove the only viable way for PvE players to earn comparable amounts of points to PvP players. ...

/le sigh

 

I guess I'll repeat myself again.

 

1. A PvP guild trying to win is highly likely to pick a planet with a PvP bonus.

2. A PvE guild trying to win is highly likely to pick a planet with a PvE bonus that favors heriocs.

3. A quick glance at Dulfy's lists shows that these two types of guilds are likely to be on different planets.

 

A PvP'er invading Balmorra would have to do 54 warzones to make the same amount of points a PvE'er could on Balmorra doing the non-repeatable daily objectives. That doesn't exactly favor PvP, in my opinion.

 

Not to mention, that if you're the type of person who could farm infinitely repeatable PvE content to win Conquests, it is highly likely you'd have more than one level 55 alt, meaning you could do Balmorra a second time, forcing the PvPer to do 108 warzones to keep up with you.

 

How does this affect your theory that they've "Removed the only viable way for PvE players to earn comparable amounts of points to PvP players", hmm?

[Nergherder]

A PvP'er invading Balmorra would have to do 54 warzones to make the same amount of points a PvE'er could on Balmorra doing the non-repeatable daily objectives. That doesn't exactly favor PvP, in my opinion.

 

Well your 54 number is laughable, so that's why your opinion is so amazingly wrong.

 

First off, there are 8 heroics on Balmorra (not the 13 you claim) you can do every day. Also, those are level <21 quests. Doing grey quests for no reward whatsoever isn't game play, it's a job. Since I want to play a game, those are out.

 

So there's a heroic on Ilum (Only one; the conquest objective is showing you a Republic side and an Empire side quest). It's level 50, so that's technically not grey though still laughable. But we'll count it. Except there's no bonus for doing an Ilum heroic for a Balmorran invasion, so that's 500 points.

 

So back to your list of things:

1. Level 50 HM Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

2. Level 55 HM Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

3. Tactical Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

 

If I'm tanking or healing, that's probably about 1.5 hours of my time. If I'm a DPS, that's probably at least extra thirty minutes of waiting around doing nothing while the queue does its thing. The 50HM and the Tactical are utter wastes of time. The only actually useful thing from the 55 HM is the ultimate comms from the daily. There's some credits to be made (though not a whole lot) so we'll count them.

 

So my actual daily repeatable reward points total is 6500. Or 13 warzone matches. Not the 54 you pulled out of nonsense land. If we narrow our field down to the daily PvE content that might be at all relevant to me as a 55 who has run an OP or two, it's really just the daily 55 HM for 2k points, which is 4 warzone matches.

 

But wait, what if I have fine space houses? Well then I could get an extra 100% bonus on my conquest points. But that only applies to the base value, not the multiplied value, so the PvE example would get 10000 points. But in the PvP example, I'm not getting any multiplicative bonus for my poor choice of planet invasion, which makes my stronghold more valuable and I'll earn as much as the PvEr in just 10 matches. Again if we pare away the things that are irrelevant to how I actually play the game, the daily 55 HM gets me 3000 points, which is what a PvPer would get from 3 matches. As long as both queues are popping, I'm pretty sure 3 matches are actually faster than the HM will take.

 

How does this affect your theory that they've "Removed the only viable way for PvE players to earn comparable amounts of points to PvP players", hmm?

 

It's still an amazingly terrible design. PvP players get to earn conquest points by doing the part of the game that is relevant and rewarding to them. PvE players get to do boring static content that they've grossly out leveled that only really rewards them with conquest points. If I just ran the daily 55HM each day and the ops, I wouldn't even reach the 35k total I need to actually get a reward from the conquest system.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Nergherder
Math error

[Ruskaeth]

Much tears.

 

Are all of you complaining bat-sith crazy?

 

Stop feeling bad about not being able to do same FP over and over for points.

 

It's absolutely awesome BW is trying to balance conquests.

 

[Khevar]

Doing grey quests for no reward whatsoever isn't game play, it's a job. Since I want to play a game, those are out.

I just want to laugh at you for saying this.

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

So farming the same flashpoints over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over is NOT a job, but running heroics is?

 

Sorry. I've got to laugh at you again.

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

So, after I made that post at 9:22pm PST, I decided to put my money where my mouth is and give it a try. I've since run 9 Balmorra heroics (you're right that it wasn't 13, but you're wrong about the 8), 1 level 55 HM FP and 1 level 50 HM FP.

 

I finished by 11:02pm PST, 160 minutes later, with 17,500 additional conquest points. I did the heroics while waiting for the group finder pops. I suppose I could have run circles around the fleet, or run one of the many dailies that I'm extremely tired of. But Hey! Why not make some points instead?

 

Let's see now, had a PvPer been in a guild that had invaded Balmorra, he or she would have needed to run 35 (that's THIRTY FIVE just in case you were wondering) warzones to match that.

PvE players get to do boring static content that they've grossly out leveled that only really rewards them with conquest points.

Now, this I don't disagree with one bit. Conquests are uninspiring in the extreme and subside primarily on old content run a billion times before.

 

Which is why it simply ASTOUNDS me that you would complain that you are unable to run the same flashpoint 536 times in a row for easy points.

 

 

Edit: Had I run a Tac and Ilum heroics, that would have been an additional 3,000 points, requiring 41 war zones to match. So yes, my 54 was wrong (I was looking at Dulfy's list of heroics and she included non-heroic bonus series quests). But 41 is nothing to sneeze at.

 

I'll say it again: Mountains out of molehills people!

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[GadgetDon]

Let me say what I think would be fair for PVE players:

 

(1) Change the repeatable flashpoint award to be based on doing a flashpoint from group finder, period. (If you queue up as a group, you must have the flashpoint listed in your group finder to earn the points).

 

(2) Bonus boss awards are not repeatable, but they clear every day. (I would also have the Invasion Force crafting award clear every day). So, you can get the bonus boss awards 6 times throughout your legacy. Eventually, make them tracked per-character, and at the time, reduce the point value to 1000 points.

 

(3) Specific flashpoint awards, like the 2K bonus for doing Ilum, remain unrepeatable but clear every day. Esselles and BT are removed from the bonus list as just too fast to count. As with bonus bosses, if/when they can be tracked on a per character basis, reduce the award to 1000 points.

 

The result is that PVE players can indeed grind indefinitely but only with flashpoints at some reasonable approximation of the player's level. Resetting bonus boss and specific flashpoint bonuses daily means that you can spread the points through alts or, yes, get extra points on one main by doing something thematic and specific, but still with limits from being able to just repeat over and over again.

[Khevar]

GadgetDon, those are good ideas.

[Kulyok]

I agree, lock these rewards to the dailies and weeklies and be done with it. Fair for all.

 

Read it as "Fail for all". Everyone should suffer!

[Transairion]

Er, should I even bother to ask why a PvPer would invade a PvE planet if they intended to PvP?

 

 

Almost everyone (should) be invading planets based on the bonuses and the content to earn those bonuses.

 

 

So herp derp a PvP guild should be invading a PvP planet and earning 1000+ PER WARZONE (or per GSF) already.

 

Don't try and paint PvErs who get stuck with Dailies (Heroics are not repeatable buddy, they're dailies, and only give 500 a pop unless you're invading the planet. JUST LIKE PVP!) as the bad guys when PvP is both easier and earns equal if not more rewards for the same effort.

 

 

Thanks to this "exploit fix" almost, if not EVERY SINGLE PvE Objective will be a Daily and you do it once then you're done, no more points.

 

Meanwhile on PvP planet, still going all day errday. What lockout, keep going till your fingers bleed!

[Kalfear]

Simple log in another character, next day start from the beginning. 3/4 alts and you are done. Doing H is really more better than run PvP.

 

I really can't see where the problem is.

 

you REALLY dont understand what 1 a day per LEGACY means do you?

[AlaricSevGirl]

You are the minority, forcing players to play PvP in a game that is 95% PvE is silly and arguably bad game design.

 

It's also very Bioware/EA to do it. They've been doing it for awhile now. GSF, instead of doing both a PvP and a PvE version, all they did was the PvP version. Now conquest...

 

BW/EA has always been short sighted. Honestly, they were a much better company before the founders left and all the layoffs.

[Elminster_cs]

PVPers can grind endlessly, but PVEers can't. Crafting doesn't count since PVPers can do that, too

 

This is just theory and in real is not true, time is limited. Depend always on the planet your guild choose.

While you PvP as PvE I can log in alt, repeat all the H and so on. Is all daily and takes 2 hours per character to do all, 3/4 character = 8 Hours.... You are doing PvP more than 8 hours per day? Maybe but we are still close in points.

 

and again:

 

DEPEND ON THE PLANET YOU LAND. Do some math - time and find it out, is pretty simple

[Halinalle]

1 a day per LEGACY

 

Where did you get that from? It's supposed to be tied to daily quests.

That's

1 per day per character

[Danylia]

So, after I made that post at 9:22pm PST, I decided to put my money where my mouth is and give it a try. I've since run 9 Balmorra heroics (you're right that it wasn't 13, but you're wrong about the 8), 1 level 55 HM FP and 1 level 50 HM FP.

Nitpicking: It's 8 Heroics Empire side and 9 Heroics Republic side.

[Elminster_cs]

you REALLY dont understand what 1 a day per LEGACY means do you?

 

And you can't read the conquest.

You can do ALL HEROICS PER CHARACTER EVERY DAY. I'm doing it since launch. So start to read better the tooltip, is not per legacy, but PER CHARACTER.

 

Most of the people here must stop complain and start read better.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Elminster_cs

[Nylira]

When Conquest was introduced I was happy because it meant that my little PVE guild could again be motivated to do old content. We started since the game started and have gained and lost people but we had a definite hard core that stayed with us for nearly 3 years now. So here comes conquest. A competition where you could again do old content for points and fight we did for those points.

 

Like any guild we would like to expand the guild ship. So we put SO much effort into fighting for our spot and doing commanders when we could find them. But then it quickly became apparent that my 60 man guild is no competition for the 500 man guilds out there which rack points like INSANITY. Still we battled and fought for all we were worth with the PVE content. And we stuck it out to take spot nr. 6 last week. I am very proud of my guild for that.

 

But we did not fail to notice that the 'hotfixes' apparently are never for fixing a PVP objective. So surprise surprise today the message of this so called bug report fixing stuff. And in truth I could maybe even accept it if the cap was was per character. But no .. it is per legacy. That is just stupid squared. It basically tells me that if I play the PVE I enjoy I can only cap one toon since a second toon would be an infinite grind on content I do not like to get to the cap.

 

Meanwhile the PVP just do what they like and cap one toon after another. I can pretty much predict now that I am going to lose several members on the conquest front because they cant be bothered to PVP like crazy to compete. So I can say goodbye to staying on the leaderboards. The only way for us to then try and remolely do anything with our guild ship (USS MoneySink) is to try and do commanders. And guess what; this will also be impossible because the 500 person guilds are camping every planet. The planar bombardment for the controlling guild means we will never get the named commander on that planet again.

 

So yes thank you for making this content obviously something meant to be played and won by PVP players. Hilariously the PVP players I know and befriended are the ones that have ZERO interest in conquest. I am sure the irony will not be lost.

 

As for us..after this patch goes live I guess my guild will be split. One half will most likely go dormant again till 3.0 and the other half of us will be destroying pvp games and star fighter by queing and moving in circles on the battle field like a random drunk. I guess this will turn me into the thing I hate but it seems in its infinite wisdom this is how Bioware envisioned patch 2.9.

 

If you made it this far into reading this then by all means thanks for reading.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Nylira
Fixed some spelling and grammar errors

[Elminster_cs]

Not true, in lot of planets PvE guild are winning:

 

Pc Gamer Imperial Mint

Imperial Woves.

 

Big guild win, not PvP one. And they are all running Heroics on planet, FP daily and so on.

You have to LEARN how to do conquest better.

 

There are also lot of PvE guild in the top 10.

 

you have to learn a PLANET SUITABLE for your guild

[Nylira]

Not true, in lot of planets PvE guild are winning:

 

Pc Gamer Imperial Mint

Imperial Woves.

 

Big guild win, not PvP one. And they are all running Heroics on planet, FP daily and so on.

You have to LEARN how to do conquest better.

 

There are also lot of PvE guild in the top 10.

 

you have to learn a PLANET SUITABLE for your guild

 

You don't seem to understand really. They win because they have 400-500 members. If they all do cap 1 toon it is instant leaderboard. The ONLY way my 60 man guild can compete is if we cap 3 toons for every one of theirs so to speak.

 

If you remove that option by telling me that 90% of objectives are ONE TIME PER LEGACY then you are taking away my possibility of competing unless I go grind content that makes me want to throw myself off a building.

So if you know that then you know also that most of the PVE guilds that are in the top 10 are either huge or working their *** off with multiple toons. When you remove that you will see PVE guilds slowly dropping from the leaderboards with the exception of the guargantuan ones.

 

Then there is this 'find a suitable planet' nonsense you write. Again you fail to grasp the issue at hand. I can chose from 4 planets this scenario and each one of them has several PVP and huge PVE guilds on it. We are currenly trying to do Corellia because it seemed like the most level playing ground.

 

Because logically if 400 people cap once and I have 60 people that cap 4-5 times I may just have a shot at beating these people or at least staying on the board. I have people in my guild that capped 8 toons the previous scenario and were no working their way to capping 10 character. Just to fight for a spot on the leaderboard. That will not happen because you are basically telling them: No you cant win by playing what you like. You have to do the stuff you don't like if you want a shot at winning.

 

I doubt I have to elaborate how much of a fun killer this is. I have a fun guild with loads of friends that have stuck with the adventure for nearly 3 years now. I will not order them to do stuff they hate.

So really go ahead and post your awesome replies in font 40 with colors because you think that solves the problem. In reality PVE just got screwed again and since this thread exists I am not alone in my feelings towards this.

 

Even if THIS was the way they want to take this. Then throw the PVE-ers a bone and make PVE objectives completable once PER CHARACTER instead of legacy. And give smaller guilds a chance at the leaderboard. The way it is now I will have to wait for that 1 in 10 run where we get to invade 9 planets so I can compete.

 

Oh and btw thanks for reading my post mate. But next time you really don't need to use font sizes and colors to scream at me. I can hear and read just fine thanks.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Nylira
Fixing typo

[LilyJedi]

Not true, in lot of planets PvE guild are winning:

 

Pc Gamer Imperial Mint

Imperial Woves.

 

As of this morning on TRE, Mint Imperials were in second place on the world they're contesting.

Edited August 29, 2014 by LilyJedi

[Elminster_cs]

@Nylira

Wait wait, I was talking about PvE vs PvP, that people are complaining about here. They reward the same ammount, and all are just crazy with this really needed patch.

 

Your problem is small guild against bigger one right? Ok in this I agree for sure. Actually with just 15/25 player we are in the top ten... but mate so much work!!! Win is impossible, the top with 80+ online just have 3 times our points.

 

We are all aware of this problem, for now the only solution is to farm commander if you can find one.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Elminster_cs

[Elminster_cs]

As of this morning on TRE, Mint Imperials were in second place on the world they're contesting.

 

Probably tonight someone told the other guild... to farm as much as they can this exploit. I will take a look, but the top one will not be a PvP one.

[Nylira]

@Nylira

Wait wait, I was talking about PvE vs PvP, that people are complaining about here. They reward the same ammount, and all are just crazy with this really needed patch.

 

Your problem is small guild against bigger one right? Ok in this I agree for sure. Actually with just 15/25 player we are in the top ten... but mate so much work!!! Win is impossible, the top with 80+ online just have 3 times our points.

 

We are all aware of this problem, for now the only solution is to farm commander if you can find one.

 

If you are in the top 10 with 15/25 player then I am guessing you are either on a server where no one cares about conquest or the server is under populated or you are in a PVP guild. The crux of the matter is simple. I cannot cap doing ONLY PVE I can cap doing ONLY PVP. So really where is the fairness in all that.

 

*EDIT* Apparently you are on Red Eclipse so if you are not in a PVP guild then I would say good luck holding on to the top 10 spot after this patch.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Nylira
New info

[znihilist]

EDIT: Never mind, there is already a discussion about it in another thread. Edited August 29, 2014 by znihilist

[APCrol]

1. Nice rewards and eazy to get 35000 points with just weekly's.

2. Strange complain.

3. Well 30-40 guilds in top is enough for server. But im agree there must be smaller tier guild rewards.

4. Commanders got this shield by cd around some hours we killed 2 commanders on tuesday without conquering planet and it was fun. Just move your ops group in ships, send scouts to planets and send troopers after.

Edited August 29, 2014 by APCrol

[Elminster_cs]

If you are in the top 10 with 15/25 player then I am guessing you are either on a server where no one cares about conquest or the server is under populated or you are in a PVP guild. The crux of the matter is simple. I cannot cap doing ONLY PVE I can cap doing ONLY PVP. So really where is the fairness in all that.

 

*EDIT* Apparently you are on Red Eclipse so if you are not in a PVP guild then I would say good luck holding on to the top 10 spot after this patch.

 

Yes we are on balmorra and we have NEVER use this exploit. We are PvE we run HEROIC every days. We can make 11.5k in 40 min with every character.

 

The last one is at 600k from us. Here in balmorra PvP gives just 500 point per match. Guys really, learn to read.

Is not easy we know, win is impossible last week beeing in the top 10 was impossible. Is not the PvP the problem is just the size of a guild.

 

MY toons have 45k, 35k, 36k, 12k, since start. Just playing 3 hours/day.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Elminster_cs