Conquest and Screwing PVEr's

[Danw]

Understandable, and I might be wrong about this, but I think that is how they originally intended it. PVE players contribute, but PVP players dominate the system. This was a PVP feature IMO that PVE players could contribute to.

 

Again, I could be mistaken but that was my understanding.

 

Are you on a PvP server? I would expect you to be, I play on a PvE server because i don't like PvP with most MMO's (EVE Online, FireFall, and Planetside being the few MMO exceptions for me, WoT style games are not MMO's (a lobby does not make a game an mmo))...Anyway off topic....

 

PvP players are the vast minority (especially on PvE servers)...that is because most PvP in games like this (level/stat/gear based mmo's) is complete crap for "most" people who would do PvP in other genre's (FPS, RTS, etc).

 

You are the minority, forcing players to play PvP in a game that is 95% PvE is silly and arguably bad game design.

[MaximilianPower]

yeah I agree, 500 points per HM 55 flashpoint run seems fair. a HM flashpoint takes roughly as long as a PVP match to run. fairs fair

 

I must be doing something wrong, or just getting unlucky with pugs. PvP matches typically take me MUCH less time to complete than an average HM 55 FP (especially with bonus boss, if applicable, which most groups want to do these days for deco drops). With the exception of maybe a voidstar stalemate or something.

[BrianDavion]

Simple log in another character, next day start from the beginning. 3/4 alts and you are done. Doing H is really more better than run PvP.

 

I really can't see where the problem is.

 

 

maybe because the conquest goals are per character not per legacy?

[BrianDavion]

I must be doing something wrong, or just getting unlucky with pugs. PvP matches typically take me MUCH less time to complete than an average HM 55 FP (especially with bonus boss, if applicable, which most groups want to do these days for deco drops). With the exception of maybe a voidstar stalemate or something.

 

I was intetnionally lowballing the flashpoint estimate, as it really didn't hurt my arguement to do so.

[Khevar]

As a PvE player, with a guild invading Balmorra, you can do the following every day:

 

1. Level 50 HM Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

2. Level 55 HM Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

3. Tactical Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

4. Ilum Heroics (500 points x 2 heroics = 1000 points)

5. Balmorra Heriocs (500 points x3 invasion bonus x 13 heroics = 19500 points)

 

For a grand total of 26,500 points.

 

By comparison, this is the equivalent of 26 (that's TWENTY-SIX) warzone matches (if they're invading Hoth).

 

Note that if you have more than one level 55 toon, YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN ON THE SAME DAY.

 

This is just making mountains out of molehills. "Screwing PvEr's" indeed.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[Danw]

I must be doing something wrong, or just getting unlucky with pugs. PvP matches typically take me MUCH less time to complete than an average HM 55 FP (especially with bonus boss, if applicable, which most groups want to do these days for deco drops). With the exception of maybe a voidstar stalemate or something.

 

I agree

SM FP takes 15-30+ min depending on FP and group -> if they are conquest 500 points each or daily

HM FP take 20-30+ min depending on FP and group -> once a day 500 points

GF OP 30min to 2 hours depending on group -> once a week x3 only 500 points

non GF Op ... no points

Heroics 30-1hour for all on a planet (solo) -> once a day 500 points each

 

WZ/GSF 5-15min -> 500 points each no limit

[Danw]

As a PvE player, with a guild invading Balmorra, you can do the following every day:

 

1. Level 50 HM Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

2. Level 55 HM Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

3. Tactical Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

4. Ilum Heroics (500 points x 2 heroics = 1000 points)

5. Balmorra Heriocs (500 points x3 invasion bonus x 13 heroics = 19500 points)

 

For a grand total of 26,500 points.

 

By comparison, this is the equivalent of 26 (that's TWENTY-SIX) warzone matches (if they're invading Hoth).

 

And if you have more than one level 55 toon, YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN ON THE SAME DAY.

 

This is just making mountains out of molehills. "Screwing PvEr's" indeed.

 

Balmora is an exception to the Heroics and throws off the average.

[Ihlrath]

Again though you're thinking just this week. Not every week will have the same number of heroics available. I just don't see the problem in there being an even metric.

[Zoom_VI]

I assume they're probably far more time-consuming than speedrunning a LV10 flashpoint with a LV55 character.

 

To be fair speedrunning HM Ilum takes the same amount of time and gives more points than SM Esseles.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Darth_Wicked]

To be fair speedrunning HM Ilum takes the same amount of time and gives more points.

 

But one may assume that not everyone is up to it when compared to a LV10 flashpoint, at least solo that is.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Khevar]

Balmora is an exception to the Heroics and throws off the average.

Well, I glanced down the list of future conquests.

 

Most of them have between 10 and 16 heroics. Flashpoint Havok doesn't have any though. But at least that conquest has no planet with a warzone invasion bonus.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[Ihlrath]

Well and there in lies the problem Zoom. People exploiting that for an unfair advantage in conquest and what brought about the whole thing in the first place. Because, yeah you're right. When you can earn 2k points for roflstomping a level 50 hardmode (and they were allowing story mode on top of it so even faster) in 10 minutes, hell no that wasn't fair to PVP guilds because there's simply no way they could keep up.

 

THAT needed to be limited.

 

On our server for example there's a guild topping the boards that barely squeaked into the rankings last week with like around 700k points but this week on Thursday they have 2.5 million? Yeaaaaahhhhhhhh. That's some poodoo right there.

[Zoom_VI]

Understandable, and I might be wrong about this, but I think that is how they originally intended it. PVE players contribute, but PVP players dominate the system. This was a PVP feature IMO that PVE players could contribute to.

 

Again, I could be mistaken but that was my understanding.

 

False, the gameplay type that in emphasized changes each week. Last week was the Ground PvP week (or crafting week if you went for Voss), this week is the GSF, there will be PvE dominant weeks down the road.

[GadgetDon]

I did not say that.

 

What I said is that if people like me, who are expected to PvP every so often to achieve or obtain something they desire, I fail to see why other people - namely in a Guild - should not, especially when their "sacrifice"(?) is for the whole, in this case their Guild.

 

Again, no one is special.

 

Actually, I don't think you're expected to PVP every so often. You can go without, no drops or rewards are so overpowered they are vital. I do, and I don't miss it at all. What you're saying is that since people like you who decide you want stuff and are willing to do PVP to get it, everyone should have to do PVP to win conquests. A viewpoint I completely disagree with.

 

If Bioware wants Conquests to be a PVP event, they should make it as such - no PVE content, no heroics, no group finder flashpoints. But when they set it up with both PVP and PVE things to do, PVP shouldn't be given a LOT more options to get points than PVE.

[Zoom_VI]

But one may assume that not everyone is up to it when compared to a LV10 flashpoint, at least solo that is.

 

Why would your run solo? Four 55s burn through Ilum in 15 minutes for 4k points apiece. SM takes just as long thanks to the convos for only 2k.

[Darth_Wicked]

Actually, I don't think you're expected to PVP every so often. You can go without, no drops or rewards are so overpowered they are vital. I do, and I don't miss it at all. What you're saying is that since people like you who decide you want stuff and are willing to do PVP to get it, everyone should have to do PVP to win conquests. A viewpoint I completely disagree with.

 

If Bioware wants Conquests to be a PVP event, they should make it as such - no PVE content, no heroics, no group finder flashpoints. But when they set it up with both PVP and PVE things to do, PVP shouldn't be given a LOT more options to get points than PVE.

 

Again, I'm saying no one is special and if some people are expected to PvP in order to obtain something they desire, why should small-, medium- or large-sized PvE guilds be any different?

 

In regards to Guild Conquests that is.

 

I could be wrong but don't people need to get themselves flagged in order to face opposite faction Commanders for the Frameworks and stuff? Are PvE-based Guilds going to ignore that altogether and miss the chance to upgrade their Guild Ships faster?

Edited August 29, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Zoom_VI]

I could be wrong but don't people need to get themselves flagged in order to face opposite faction Commanders for the Frameworks and stuff? Are PvE-based Guilds going to ignore that altogether and miss the chance to upgrade their Guild Ships faster?

 

You are supposed to be flagged, but all of the commanders are so close to the edge of the base, that you can pull them without being flagged. So much for the WPvP

[Darth_Wicked]

You are supposed to be flagged, but all of the commanders are so close to the edge of the base, that you can pull them without being flagged. So much for the WPvP

 

That's disappointing. Thanks for the clarification.

[Ihlrath]

Yeah you can pull Commanders without flagging but it's something I thought they already said they were going to fix since you're SUPPOSED to engage in pvp for it.

[GadgetDon]

Again, I'm saying no one is special and if some people are expected to PvP in order to obtain something they desire, why should small-, medium- or large-sized PvE guilds be any different?

 

In regards to Guild Conquests that is.

 

I could be wrong but don't people need to get themselves flagged in order to face opposite faction Commanders for the Frameworks and stuff? Are PvE-based Guilds going to ignore that altogether and miss the chance to upgrade their Guild Ships faster?

 

The rest of the game is pretty well segregated between PVE and PVP. Warzones are PVP only, no PVE action in them. Flashpoints are PVE only, you aren't going to stumble upon another group of players and have to fight them.

 

Conquests is both - it has a number of options at are PVE in nature, a number that are PVP in action. Commanders are in the PVP column. (One of my complaints is that they don't label the objectives as PVE or PVP nor explain them - I was looking for elite and champion Jedis on the various planets to kill and wondering why I wasn't getting credit.)

 

And it's NOT just guild. Most of the actions are done individually and in small groups. There are nice rewards for the individual. My main is a republic troop and is in a guild that has no chance of ranking (no guild ship either) but he does them for the personal rewards. I've got an level 55 imp that is in a ranked guild (go Wolf Pack). In both cases they are my characters, they are not serfs to the guild whose action is being directed for it. We do have some PVPers in our guild, and it's great they can contribute in the ways they like including killing commanders. Me, I don't PVP so I contribute in other ways. Last week, it was so hard to get PVE points that I only did them on Kayoss,the trooper. This week, I've also been able to contribute to the imp guild.

 

Again, if Bioware wants to make it a PVP event, then make it a PVP event. Have all PVP objectives. Some normally PVE players may still participate to get the rewards, me I won't touch it with a ten foot pole. But as long as the design says "this is for both sides", have some balance.

[Elminster_cs]

As a PvE player, with a guild invading Balmorra, you can do the following every day:

 

1. Level 50 HM Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

2. Level 55 HM Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

3. Tactical Flashpoint (1000 x2 invasion bonus = 2000 points)

4. Ilum Heroics (500 points x 2 heroics = 1000 points)

5. Balmorra Heriocs (500 points x3 invasion bonus x 13 heroics = 19500 points)

 

For a grand total of 26,500 points.

 

By comparison, this is the equivalent of 26 (that's TWENTY-SIX) warzone matches (if they're invading Hoth).

 

Note that if you have more than one level 55 toon, YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN ON THE SAME DAY.

 

This is just making mountains out of molehills. "Screwing PvEr's" indeed.

 

Most of the people posting here don't have take a look at all conquest. I see some reply to this post: "ah but you are counting the bonus of balmorra"

Sure he doese because THIS TIME:

 

Warzone: The Killing Fields 500 Complete any ranked or unranked Warzone match. Hoth x2

 

JUST HOTH give X2. The base are 500 points.

 

• So if you land balmorra ----> PvE beat PvP in term of point
  
• If you land Hoth ---> Bonus to GSF most, PvP and some PvE. There GSF BEAT PvP, PvE gives x2 ON OPERATION. you can run in ONE hour EV and take 2 rewards, 4k points. So there PvP is close to PvE, just a bit better. Even here if you run daily H on balmorra you do a decent ammount of point in a short time
  
• if you land Corelia ---> most the same as Hoth, but without operation, but doesn't give bonus to PvP, GSF here dominate.
  
• if you land Ilum ---> Is only ONE time based planet, so you can run weekly, daily H or GFS that is near the same
  

 

So *** is the problem? Can't really find, because THE PLANET WHERE YOU LAND drive what you are going to do.

[Hanak]

Right now the largest GSF guild on our server running 4 man teams all day with upwards of 16 members flying at a time in the evening is still 1 million points behind a PvE guild that is doing all the above on Corellia which only provides a GSF bonus. And we don't even just do that!

 

Don't tell me PvEers are getting screwed.

[Ihlrath]

Hanak that guild is using the exploits big time. Saberwing should be winning hands down. Last week that guild barely scored 800k I think it was. THAT sort of exploiting the level 10 runs for 2k a pop.. yeah that needs to be limited to one a legacy to keep that from happening.

[GadgetDon]

Right now the largest GSF guild on our server running 4 man teams all day with upwards of 16 members flying at a time in the evening is still 1 million points behind a PvE guild that is doing all the above on Corellia which only provides a GSF bonus. And we don't even just do that!

 

Don't tell me PvEers are getting screwed.

 

The situation right now is broken. No arguments. You can churn out PVE points like there's no tomorrow - and they're doing it because there is no tomorrow for this.

 

But the way they say they will be fixing it is too limited for PVE players. So next week, like last week, far harder on PVE players than PVP players.

[Khevar]

So *** is the problem? Can't really find, because THE PLANET WHERE YOU LAND drive what you are going to do.

Actually, that's an excellent point!

 

The guild with the Hoth invasion, getting x2 bonus for Warzones, is NOT going to be competing with the guild invading Balmorra, getting x2 bonus for flashpoints and x3 bonus for heriocs.

 

If you are a PvE guild, and you invaded Hoth, then you're a fool.

 

If you are a PvP guild, and you invated Balmorra, you would have to do 54 warzones at 500 a pop to compete with the PvE player that can get 26,500 points a day on a single alt without crafting.

 

A guild that plans on making points on PvP is very likely to invade a planet with a PvP bonus.

 

Which brings me to this post:

But the way they say they will be fixing it is too limited for PVE players. So next week, like last week, far harder on PVE players than PVP players.

Why would a PvP guild invade a planet without a PvP invasion bonus? Why would a PvE guild invade a planet WITH a PvP invasion bonus? Why would these two guilds be competing?

 

Note that I'm not trying to say that all Conquests events are balanced. They aren't. I'm just trying to say that people are making mountains out of molehills.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar