Is anything going to be done so that guild conquests aren't quantity > quality?

[ivanhedgehog]

There's a guild on our server (I'm not going to mention the name) that is considered the worst across Imps and Reps. They have a full 500 members and don't allow alts in the guild. They are dreaded in PvE, lose the vast majority of their warzones and their open-world PvP is beyond pitiful.

 

However, they are millions above the second place all the time simply because of the fact that they have the largest amount of people farming a level 10 flashpoint. How this can be considered a healthy way of compelting conquests is BEYOND me.

 

why is this any different from last week when crafters were amassing huge point totals simply because they had the cash to buy mats? its not as if they did anything meaningful for those points. if they mess with the fp's to appease whiners they will mess with the people running their friends through esselles/bt for gear or for social/rep points. just so you wont be hurt that someone dozens of mind numbing repetitions of black talon.

[ivanhedgehog]

You misunderstand or maybe I explained myself poorly earlier.

 

When it comes to BT and Esseles for example, the least they could do is to offer those in its HM treatment for LV50+ characters as part of the Guild Conquests. The flashpoints are already there so why not just use them?

 

Why have LV55's speedrunning a LV10 flashpoint, when there's an alternative with those two?

 

so my level 14 cant contribute but my level 15 crafter can get 100k points just by sending out companions.....great idea

[Kalfear]

What about people who want to run a friend through say... Taral V to get them the loot that drops there?

 

ummmm, whats stopping you?

 

If your friend getting 1 shoted from your content, maybe the problem is not the content

maybe the problem is you trying to twink out your friend in content to high for him

 

Whats stopping him from running content with a group his own level to get the items?

 

Honestly just the fact you ask this question that you did show cases one of the biggest issues in modern day MMORPGs. Unrealistic and frankly lazy demands put on developers for easy mode content.

 

Oh and your question wouldn't be a question if mentoring was put in game.

Mentoring was one of the most requested systems before game was in any stage of beta and during the closed beta.

 

EQ2 has a excellent mentoring system SW:TOR could have utilized and copied

[Brewski]

Tell me this isn't a good idea:

This isn't a good idea.

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

In all seriousness though, I think if you add a diminishing return mechanism on individual contributions you will cause the forums to crack in half and explode. The forums posts that start with "Why should my contributions count less, just because Gary can play more?" will be everywhere.

 

If you wanted to do something like this, you would have to put a diminishing return mechanism on a guild as a whole based on their earn rate, but even that's not going to help. Gamers throughout time have proven that the more complex the system, the easier it is to find cracks, loop holes and exploits to game the system.

 

Simple is better. Is the current system completely fair? No. But we know the rules because they are simple, so it's at least understandable. Should they tweak it? Yeah, that would be a good idea, but in small steps. The system just launched, so lets give it a month or two before we tear it down to much.

 

So, just so I don't sounds like someone shooting down every suggestion without making any of my own...

 

I would suggest they consider adding a cap on the repeatable objectives. So maybe crafting earns 500 per point, but you cap the total at 10k points. If all categories are capped at 10k, you could limit the farming to a more reasonable level without forcing people to complete objective types they hate or completely scrapping the system.

[mpddispatch]

Another great example how everyone these days want something for nothing. They want no competition. They want everyone on an equal playing field. I say phooey!!! If you want to compete for the top 10 leaderboard, join a larger guild, get your guild's membership up. Why should large guilds suffer because your little guild cant compete? If you as a player want the benefits of being on a winning team, join one or become one. Oh, and no, Im not in some huge mega guild, Im the GM of a medium sized casual guild. We do conquest knowing we dont have a chance but thats ok, conquest has brought us much more than being an elite winner. Its brought people back to our guild that quit playing, its brought us more together by doing stuff as a group, and its brought us some new members. I get so sick of people complaining there is no competitveness in this game and its too easy, and then when they add something thats got some competition behind it they whine because they dont come in first.

[JediMasterSLC]

Another great example how everyone these days want something for nothing. They want no competition. They want everyone on an equal playing field. I say phooey!!! If you want to compete for the top 10 leaderboard, join a larger guild, get your guild's membership up. Why should large guilds suffer because your little guild cant compete? If you as a player want the benefits of being on a winning team, join one or become one. Oh, and no, Im not in some huge mega guild, Im the GM of a medium sized casual guild. We do conquest knowing we dont have a chance but thats ok, conquest has brought us much more than being an elite winner. Its brought people back to our guild that quit playing, its brought us more together by doing stuff as a group, and its brought us some new members. I get so sick of people complaining there is no competitveness in this game and its too easy, and then when they add something thats got some competition behind it they whine because they dont come in first.

 

Inviting as many people as possible to guild =/= competition. Read the thread title fool. Quality > quantity.

[Master_Hitsugaya]

I'm of the opinion that each guild's conquest should be scored based on the points of the top 100 (or more) legacies in the guild.

 

You can disagree or agree with the above, it's subjective, but it's just my opinion.

 

However I think it's really silly that this week's conquest is going to be decided by which guild is going to have the most 55s speedrunning. They should have kept the daily reward requirement for conquest points like last week because this is simply absurd.

I'd be fine with that my guild grievance only has 90 unique accounts finished at 4 for alderan last week and are 3rd for balmora right now so we would still get all our points.

[TUXs]

Inviting as many people as possible to guild =/= competition. Read the thread title fool. Quality > quantity.

Quality gets you 186 gear. Quantity gets you unlocks on the guild ship.

[Kalfear]

Another great example how everyone these days want something for nothing. ...

 

ummmm did you even read the thread at all?

 

Most of the thread is about making thing harder and more meaningful

 

rather then 55s running through level 10 flashpoints and heroics

 

Try reading and comprehending the thread next time before you reply as you are only making YOURSELF look like you want it all with no effort.

 

You are the one wanting everything for nothing

[JacksonMo]

ummmm did you even read the thread at all?

 

Most of the thread is about making thing harder and more meaningful

 

rather then 55s running through level 10 flashpoints and heroics

 

Try reading and comprehending the thread next time before you reply as you are only making YOURSELF look like you want it all with no effort.

 

You are the one wanting everything for nothing

 

The level 10 flashpoint isn't even the easiest way to do it. You're barking up the wrong tree. And in any case, doing something repeatedly hour upon hour is not sustainable. People get worn out after a while. In the end, all you're going to do is prevent people from farming social points, which they've been doing since launch.

[Drockter]

Why not scale it as XP scales?

 

If its above your level, you get bonus points... on level you get standard points, below level severely reduced points. I believe a 54 running essles SM gets 6 XP points. If the content is so far below your level, it makes sense that you dont get as much XP from it. Nor should you get the same conquest points.

 

This is a mechanic already in game, it just needs to be applied to the conquest system.

 

I don't want to see anything removed, as someone said earlier, by having all the different types of missions, it gives all players a chance to participate in the conquest system. Nor do I have an issue with the mission selections...

 

But, if you reduce the Conquest Points earned for a 55 running a LvL 10 SM FPS... it loses their interest, and farming becomes more difficult. Which, to some degree, reduces the gap of points. Since 100 55's farming easy content wont make as much as 10 players hitting on level content...

[Khevar]

But, if you reduce the Conquest Points earned for a 55 running a LvL 10 SM FPS... it loses their interest, and farming becomes more difficult. Which, to some degree, reduces the gap of points. Since 100 55's farming easy content wont make as much as 10 players hitting on level content...

That wouldn't change much.

 

Battle of Ilum is a level 50 flashpoint, and you can skip 90% of it, finishing in just a few minutes. Eliminating points for storymode BT/Esseles would just shift to focus to that one.

 

Edit: Turns out the repeating flashpoint points will be changed next patch:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7637259#post7637259

Edited August 28, 2014 by Khevar

[Drockter]

That actually makes much more sense... (FPS not meant to be repeatable, other than the ones you can only run via GF (Daily reward only).

 

Great change

[discbox]

More member will ever beat less member.

 

Only way to solve this:

 

points gained / # of players = total result

[Khevar]

More member will ever beat less member.

 

Only way to solve this:

 

points gained / # of players = total result

This would have the side effect of encouraging guilds to boot members for not making enough conquest points.

 

Not much of a solution, in my opinion.

[TUXs]

This would have the side effect of encouraging guilds to boot members for not making enough conquest points.

 

Not much of a solution, in my opinion.

 

Good point!!!

[Infernixx]

Some might remember that I made a post a little while back while this was still on PTS warning that the current system would heavily favor Mega-guilds and offered a possible solution.

 

Now, we're seeing that the largest guilds are dominating like I suspected that they would. Perhaps it's time to address the problem and not the symptoms.

[Khevar]

Now, we're seeing that the largest guilds are dominating like I suspected that they would. Perhaps it's time to address the problem and not the symptoms.

While it's true that the largest guilds are winning top spot (unsurprisingly), a number of small guilds are placing in the top 10.

 

I'd also like to submit that my own small guild won Voss last week, and our primary competition (neck-and-neck with us all the way) was ALSO a small guild.

[Elminster_cs]

Some might remember that I made a post a little while back while this was still on PTS warning that the current system would heavily favor Mega-guilds and offered a possible solution.

 

Now, we're seeing that the largest guilds are dominating like I suspected that they would. Perhaps it's time to address the problem and not the symptoms.

 

You know... it require... too much coding, too much time, too much effort... tecnically impossible... etc.

[JacksonMo]

While it's true that the largest guilds are winning top spot (unsurprisingly), a number of small guilds are placing in the top 10.

 

I'd also like to submit that my own small guild won Voss last week, and our primary competition (neck-and-neck with us all the way) was ALSO a small guild.

 

Well, this wouldn't be an issue if people weren't creating their own micro vanity guilds.

No one has answered the other question. Why does a micro-guild deserve to take over an ENTIRE PLANET?

 

If you just want to be in a guild with 3 of your closest friends and never branch out and meet new people, that's fine. But don't tell me the 4 of you deserve to be on an equal footing with a guild that spans multiple games and often goes back to the very beginnings of MMO's.

[Darth_Wicked]

Well, this wouldn't be an issue if people weren't creating their own micro vanity guilds.

No one has answered the other question. Why does a micro-guild deserve to take over an ENTIRE PLANET?

 

If you just want to be in a guild with 3 of your closest friends and never branch out and meet new people, that's fine. But don't tell me the 4 of you deserve to be on an equal footing with a guild that spans multiple games and often goes back to the very beginnings of MMO's.

 

That seems a little extreme, as far as e-peen is concerned.

[Khevar]

Well, this wouldn't be an issue if people weren't creating their own micro vanity guilds.

No one has answered the other question. Why does a micro-guild deserve to take over an ENTIRE PLANET?

 

If you just want to be in a guild with 3 of your closest friends and never branch out and meet new people, that's fine. But don't tell me the 4 of you deserve to be on an equal footing with a guild that spans multiple games and often goes back to the very beginnings of MMO's.

Hmm. Was your point directed at me?

 

I'm happy to be in a small guild, and I'm happy for the chips to fall as they may. We did well in Conquests the first week, not so well this week. No big deal.

 

The reason I wrote the post you quoted, was to combat the idea that the size of one's membership roster is the ONLY thing that matters. I don't believe that to be the case. A large guild will have an easier time, of course, but a smaller one can still be very competitive. Particularly in view of the fact that there are 50 spots on the leaderboards this week.

 

It doesn't always have to be about the #1 spot.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[JacksonMo]

That seems a little extreme, as far as e-peen is concerned.

 

I'm not the one claiming that anyone who doesn't play the game exactly like me cannot possibly be a "quality" gamer.

 

Hmm. Was your point directed at me?

 

I'm happy to be in a small guild, and I'm happy for the chips to fall as they may. We did well in Conquests the first week, not so well this week. No big deal.

 

The reason I wrote the post you quoted, was to combat the idea that the size of one's membership roster is the ONLY thing that matters. I don't believe that to be the case. A large guild will have an easier time, of course, but a smaller one can still be very competitive. Particularly in view of the fact that there are 50 spots on the leaderboards this week.

 

It doesn't always have to be about the #1 spot.

 

Well this thread seems to be dominated by people who believe that any guild capable of mustering the numbers to over-run an opposing faction's base, cannot possibly be made up of worthwhile people.

May I present an example:

 

Quality gets you 186 gear. Quantity gets you unlocks on the guild ship.

 

Until just recently, when they patched it, it was possible to down Nefra in NM mode with minimal talent/gear.

On the Conquest side, a much smaller guild used the Battle of Illum exploit to amass several million conquest points in a single night. This was also patched so that the BOI reward is now one time, as intended.

 

Looking through this thread I notice a couple things.

1. Nobody wants to specify what makes their small guild so special that larger guilds should be ham-strung to give them a better shot at planetary conquest.

2. There isn't a single suggestion made towards ham-stringing larger guilds that doesn't still leave the larger guild at a decided advantage.

Edited August 31, 2014 by JacksonMo

[LydMekk]

If you are not eligible for 1st. Place in Conquests: don't spend time doing it at all. Not worth it,

[ivanhedgehog]

I'm not the one claiming that anyone who doesn't play the game exactly like me cannot possibly be a "quality" gamer.

 

 

 

Well this thread seems to be dominated by people who believe that any guild capable of mustering the numbers to over-run an opposing faction's base, cannot possibly be made up of worthwhile people.

May I present an example:

 

 

 

Until just recently, when they patched it, it was possible to down Nefra in NM mode with minimal talent/gear.

On the Conquest side, a much smaller guild used the Battle of Illum exploit to amass several million conquest points in a single night. This was also patched so that the BOI reward is now one time, as intended.

 

Looking through this thread I notice a couple things.

1. Nobody wants to specify what makes their small guild so special that larger guilds should be ham-strung to give them a better shot at planetary conquest.

2. There isn't a single suggestion made towards ham-stringing larger guilds that doesn't still leave the larger guild at a decided advantage.

 

here is the problem...at some point you disincentivise the activity for enough members of small and medium guilds tot the point that they give up and you start to lose subscribers at a high rate. and the devs find themselves at a spot too far from any useful content release to stop the bleeding.