Conquer and prestige points, Musco we must have some yellow.

[Elminster_cs]

So we all like the new patch, we are spending milions of dollars and credis in pack, unlock and so on. I'm having fun doing conquest and building up my houses.

 

But there are two things that are now working at all and we would like to ear something from BW: Conquest and Prestige points.

 

 

1) Prestige points are a pointless if I start placing every single speeder I have (more than 50)... ding 50k of prestige, if I start placing stuff with sense I can't grow more than 25/30k. So we actually see top leaderboards with things trowed in.

There is even more that is not working. Try to think on a bed with two bedside tables, if they are different (very orrible) you get more point than two of the same type, that is really more reasonable.

So this is a very bad system design, with no sense. Same with guild starship.

 

2) Conquer points... well is IMPOSSIBLE for mid and small guild to even arrive in the top 10. We was at 100k from the number ten, we have farm every single day with all the players online... result they was at 300k from us, and we was 15+ online. This make me really disappointed, because actually we have the best guild ship (top leaderboards of points with things placed in a correct way...) but we will never be able to unlock more, because we can't win.

You can say "recruit" but there are two problem: - people are going on the top 10, - we are a language guild. This is not fair, in europe there are lot of this guild, that pick up all the players, without guild like us lots of red eclipse players have already left the game.

 

So we would like to see something on this, because is really a bad system with a very cool and wanted patch.

Thanks.

 

NOTE: actually from the first and the second guild there are 1.8 MILION. Just because they have lot of players always online. This is pretty with no sense at all. There is no competition if you just win because you have more people online.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Elminster_cs

[Stoofa]

I must admit the "prestige" system isn't great - in my opinion of course.

Looking at the top stronghold prestige, I decided to pop along and look to see what others have done. The current top Tatooine stronghold on my server has nothing put trophys placed everywhere. The place looks a mess, but this apparently is the most prestigious stronghold on the server.

Looking at ones lower down, say around the 5k prestige and I see places where people have taken the time to set rooms up etc.

Found one stronghold with an actual ship placed in the docking bay - which looked great. However these strongholds feature so far down "the list".

Maybe prestige should suffer diminishing returns on the same item being placed over and over.

 

Anyway, I'll go back to just crafting away etc. Just need to source myself 30 Rakata Energy Nodes now and then I can have my ship in the docking bay and another ship on the outdoor platform in my Tatooine stronghold.

[Elminster_cs]

I must admit the "prestige" system isn't great - in my opinion of course.

Looking at the top stronghold prestige, I decided to pop along and look to see what others have done. The current top Tatooine stronghold on my server has nothing put trophys placed everywhere. The place looks a mess, but this apparently is the most prestigious stronghold on the server.

Looking at ones lower down, say around the 5k prestige and I see places where people have taken the time to set rooms up etc.

Found one stronghold with an actual ship placed in the docking bay - which looked great. However these strongholds feature so far down "the list".

Maybe prestige should suffer diminishing returns on the same item being placed over and over.

 

Anyway, I'll go back to just crafting away etc. Just need to source myself 30 Rakata Energy Nodes now and then I can have my ship in the docking bay and another ship on the outdoor platform in my Tatooine stronghold.

 

This is because on how the system is degnid if you place everything different is + 100 every object otherwise is just a +2. So if I place everything different (example speeders and pets) I will always have more point than others.

[Kalfear]

So we all like the new patch, we are spending milions of dollars and credis in pack, unlock and so on. I'm having fun doing conquest and building up my houses.

 

But there are two things that are now working at all and we would like to ear something from BW: Conquest and Prestige points.

 

 

1) Prestige points are a pointless if I start placing every single speeder I have (more than 50)... ding 50k of prestige, if I start placing stuff with sense I can't grow more than 25/30k. So we actually see top leaderboards with things trowed in.

There is even more that is not working. Try to think on a bed with two bedside tables, if they are different (very orrible) you get more point than two of the same type, that is really more reasonable.

So this is a very bad system design, with no sense. Same with guild starship.

 

2) Conquer points... well is IMPOSSIBLE for mid and small guild to even arrive in the top 10.

 

1) For life of me I dont get what your complaining about in Number 1? Being serious, I dont understand what your complaint is about prestige points. Please explain.

 

PS: If its about price, 50 million is not that big a ticket that its unattainable for any small or larger sized guild.

A single player going through TFB HM can earn upwards of 300,000 credits in a couple hours. 8 guild members works out to 2,400,000 credits for one guild trip each week. (just as an example).

 

There is endless ways to earn money to afford the ship.

yes smaller guilds will have more trouble fronting the cost but it is doable with only a little determination and desire.

 

honestly I do know a player who bought a guild ship for himself at release.

He is in his own guild of which only he is active and he flipped the entire 50 million credit price tag

 

Its NOT an impossible item to afford.

 

2) it should be impossible.

For life of me I do not understand why so many people think the top 10 placement should be handed out to guilds (of any size) who do not do the activities to EARN enough points to be in the top 10.

 

Please explain to me why your guild should be in top 10 ranking if you (and members of your guild) are unwilling to EARN the points required for a top 10 ranking.

 

Its a no brainer that the most active (please note thats far different from biggest sized) guilds would grab and hold the top 10 spots.

 

Now I might not agree with the over rewarding of warzones play to promote a flawed and bad PVP system. But that doesnt mean those guilds that do the content do not deserve their rankings for doing the content.

 

Your assumption that small and mid sized guilds can not hold a top 10 spot is completely wrong.

Guild IUm in holds a top 10 spot on one of the planets and they only really have 20-25 regular players (of which maybe 15 are active conquest point gather'ers). Hardly a super sized guild by todays standards. Yet they have held a top 10 spot since strong hold released for the planet they based off of.

 

A group of 8 die hard PVPers could easily push insane conquest numbers simply by doing what they have always done, PVP in warzones.

 

I have 3 characters now that I do not play (pure crafters, 2 of which only can run 3 companions at a time rather then the max allowed number of 5) who have earned the weekly 35,000 conquest points (btw, 2 of them are not guilded so receive no conquest bonuses of any type) simply by crafting the right items for the points.

 

I have 3 other characters that I do play who maxed out over the 35k in 2 days simply by doing the Makeb weekly, dailies, heroics, + a tactical and hard mode flash point each day (and some crafting).

 

If I can get 6 characters over the 35k mark in 4 days, imagine what a small guild of 10 legitimate players (plus their alts) could gather if they did that and added in PVP/OPS/what ever else.

 

Your complaint is basically your upset your guild isnt being gifted a top 10 spot because your guild doesnt want to earn the points.

 

And besides, if you dont have a guild ship or guild strong hold and your not willing to do the required content. Why exactly does it matter if your in the top 10.

 

Guild Im in will never beat out the top 3 on our server and probably struggle to maintain a top 10 spot in the long run.

That doesnt make me think any less of guild or people in it.

Sure Id love to see the full 500 roster active and working towards the same goal

Id also like to win 50 million dollars in lotto

Neither will ever happen most likely

Guild Im in might have 500 characters on roster,

only maybe 20-25-30 play with any sort of regularity (ranging from few hours casually to hard core hours, and everything in between).

 

Point is, guilds will make their own points or they will not

Size of guild really is not the biggest issue

dedication of guild playerbase is much more important

8 PVPers could easily out point 20 die hard crafters each week

20 die hard crafters could easily out point 100 uninterested or non participating players each week.

 

Guild size is not the be all, end all determination on guild rankings.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Kalfear

[Elminster_cs]

1) You don't have understand NOTHING. I'm talking about PRESTIGE POINTS. We already have a ship. Read better.

 

2) Not true, because I can have 8 players doing the whole day WZ, but the more player basis guild just have 16 doing the same thing. Is impossible.

 

The TOP one have 1.8 MILION MORE than the second one, and about 20+ players more logghed in at every our.

Same for the "low position" even between the number 9 and the number 10 there are 400k points.

 

Is actually IMPOSSIBLE any competition, any chance to win. More players = more points. Stop saying something different because this is not true, just go online, watch how many players top guild have and see that TOP = MORE PLAYERS, LOW = FEW players.

 

So we BW what that all small guild disband? Com'on.

[DisIzMe]

Mid-small guild have no chance of winning conquests,ever. Thus those guild will not participate. There are tons of mid-small guilds ,so this content will miss lots of people. Less people participating - less investment from devs. Less investment from devs - conquests system will join GSF in abandonland.

So it will hurt big guilds in long run,too.

[hallucigenocide]

yeah they could both use a little work as is.

 

especially the conquer part now that's just dominated by those who are mass inviting.. serious guilds can pretty much forget about it.

[Sabatus]

Mid-small guild have no chance of winning conquests,ever. Thus those guild will not participate. There are tons of mid-small guilds ,so this content will miss lots of people.

 

This was said over and over in the 2.9 PTS forums. Devs were busy finishing up 2.9, no-one bothered to reply. As for the only "reasonable" alternative to getting encryptions through top10, crafting dark projects at insane mats cost, 50 per framework, they specifically confirmed in the german cantina event that it is designed to be that way. Yay.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Sabatus

[Elminster_cs]

Mid-small guild have no chance of winning conquests,ever. Thus those guild will not participate. There are tons of mid-small guilds ,so this content will miss lots of people. Less people participating - less investment from devs. Less investment from devs - conquests system will join GSF in abandonland.

So it will hurt big guilds in long run,too.

 

Not even win, but also arrive in the top 10, this is the real problem. Win is not so important, but at least have a chance to reach the top 10 for the frameworks... but is impossible to!

[ugnos]

You guys do realize they said on the stream where they show off conquests that there would be weeks where there would be several planets to conquer to give smaller,medium guilds a chance at them since you can only commit to one planet.

[ryniloym]

Mid-small guild have no chance of winning conquests,ever. Thus those guild will not participate. There are tons of mid-small guilds ,so this content will miss lots of people. Less people participating - less investment from devs. Less investment from devs - conquests system will join GSF in abandonland.

So it will hurt big guilds in long run,too.

 

not really. big guilds won't really be hurt because they'll still compete with each other. they may even drive up recruitment just to try and secure a bigger score. my suggestion to you is if you're in a small guild and you want to win conquest, leave.

[Elminster_cs]

if you're in a small guild and you want to win conquest, leave.

 

This is not a good way to design a system, you have friends and people you know in real life. This system don't allow any chance to mid-smal the gap between guilds is too high.

Even if some guild will be locked in some planets, the gap between mid and small is also to high, entering in the top 10 is too hard and require too many players right now, if you just have 15 players online as avarage is not enough

[DisIzMe]

not really. big guilds won't really be hurt because they'll still compete with each other. they may even drive up recruitment just to try and secure a bigger score. my suggestion to you is if you're in a small guild and you want to win conquest, leave.

There are more people in small guilds then there are in big ones. By a significant margin ,too.

I assure you ,majority will not leave those guilds. They simply will not participate. And big guilds will compete between themself,sure. No arguement there. How many resources will devs allocate to the content that involves fraction of players - that remains to be seen.

[Pathlight-]

There are more people in small guilds then there are in big ones. By a significant margin ,too.

I assure you ,majority will not leave those guilds. They simply will not participate. And big guilds will compete between themself,sure. No arguement there. How many resources will devs allocate to the content that involves fraction of players - that remains to be seen.

 

Wrong. Smaller guilds will be absorbed by bigger ones, merge with each others or die (with the players joining bigger guilds). I can already see players looking for guilds in the fleet asking for which guild has a guildship.

 

This game has too many small guilds anyway.

[DisIzMe]

Wrong. Smaller guilds will be absorbed by bigger ones, merge with each others or die (with the players joining bigger guilds). I can already see players looking for guilds in the fleet asking for which guild has a guildship.

 

This game has too many small guilds anyway.

We shall see. Small persisting guilds are whats keeping the game alive. In my opinion ,conquests will change to include all guilds or go gsf way,but only time will judge us.

Say,same place in 1 year?

[Infernixx]

So we all like the new patch, we are spending milions of dollars and credis in pack, unlock and so on. I'm having fun doing conquest and building up my houses.

 

But there are two things that are now working at all and we would like to ear something from BW: Conquest and Prestige points.

 

 

1) Prestige points are a pointless if I start placing every single speeder I have (more than 50)... ding 50k of prestige, if I start placing stuff with sense I can't grow more than 25/30k. So we actually see top leaderboards with things trowed in.

There is even more that is not working. Try to think on a bed with two bedside tables, if they are different (very orrible) you get more point than two of the same type, that is really more reasonable.

So this is a very bad system design, with no sense. Same with guild starship.

 

2) Conquer points... well is IMPOSSIBLE for mid and small guild to even arrive in the top 10. We was at 100k from the number ten, we have farm every single day with all the players online... result they was at 300k from us, and we was 15+ online. This make me really disappointed, because actually we have the best guild ship (top leaderboards of points with things placed in a correct way...) but we will never be able to unlock more, because we can't win.

You can say "recruit" but there are two problem: - people are going on the top 10, - we are a language guild. This is not fair, in europe there are lot of this guild, that pick up all the players, without guild like us lots of red eclipse players have already left the game.

 

So we would like to see something on this, because is really a bad system with a very cool and wanted patch.

Thanks.

 

NOTE: actually from the first and the second guild there are 1.8 MILION. Just because they have lot of players always online. This is pretty with no sense at all. There is no competition if you just win because you have more people online.

 

You spent millions of dollars on packs?

[Ruskaeth]

Is actually IMPOSSIBLE any competition, any chance to win. More players = more points. Stop saying something different because this is not true, just go online, watch how many players top guild have and see that TOP = MORE PLAYERS, LOW = FEW players.

We are not a large guild by any standard and we are trying to fight for it.

[Pathlight-]

We shall see. Small persisting guilds are whats keeping the game alive. In my opinion ,conquests will change to include all guilds or go gsf way,but only time will judge us.

Say,same place in 1 year?

 

Deal

 

Btw, I like the way you can disagree without being disagreeable. Not many posters like you around here.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Pathlight-

[Elminster_cs]

You spent millions of dollars on packs?

 

We are spending, all servers. These are the most selled pack on SWTOR. Belive me.

[Elminster_cs]

We are not a large guild by any standard and we are trying to fight for it.

 

We are trying too!!! We are online as much as we can, and we constatly organize to bringh as much player to farm conquest point, but we are not even closer to the number ten. There are 450k between us and the number ten and more than 5 milions from number one.

 

There is too much disparity in the leederboards.

On makeb is winning "pc gamer imperial mint" that is of course the most populated guild in our server!!!

[Trevalon]

I see what your saying about how conquest points favor large guilds. On POT5 I am in the biggest guild on the server and we frequently have 70+ on every night. We are trouncing everyone below us by over 2 million conquest points and there is no possible way they could ever come close to beating us. We just have so many people that they could never get close. Even the uber pvp guilds are getting stomped into the ground by our superior numbers. So my mass invite guild is destroying the hardcore pvp/pve guilds at conquest just cause we outnumber 2 or 3 to 1.

 

I also completely agree with your point about how much prestige is given for items. It is completely stupid to go into the top stronghold on the server and it is nothing but the same things just dumped all over the place because that is the most efficient way of getting prestige. I am definitely for the first itme you place an item it is 100 prestige but eveyr other time you place it in that same stronghold the prestige goes down to almost nothing.

[Jamus_Divinus]

 

1) Prestige points are a pointless if I start placing every single speeder I have (more than 50)... ding 50k of prestige, if I start placing stuff with sense I can't grow more than 25/30k. So we actually see top leaderboards with things trowed in. There is even more that is not working. Try to think on a bed with two bedside tables, if they are different (very orrible) you get more point than two of the same type, that is really more reasonable.

So this is a very bad system design, with no sense. Same with guild starship.

 

I don't think you understood how prestige works. We need BW to explain it officially though as some things don't give prestige at all (speeders, pets etc). It seems clear enough but some confirmation from BW would avoid more misconceptions like the OP's.

 

I agree that the leaderboards only show the people who have the most variety of items in their personal prestige. It basically lists collectors over decorators.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Jamus_Divinus

[Icestar]

1) Prestige points are a pointless if I start placing every single speeder I have (more than 50)... ding 50k of prestige, if I start placing stuff with sense I can't grow more than 25/30k. So we actually see top leaderboards with things trowed in.

There is even more that is not working. Try to think on a bed with two bedside tables, if they are different (very orrible) you get more point than two of the same type, that is really more reasonable.

So this is a very bad system design, with no sense. Same with guild starship.

 

I agree, this system is flawed since it gives lots of points to players that place items randomly. I have seen ONE! stronghold except the one I have that is actually good above 55K. Players do not come and visit the high ranked strongholds because 95% of them are simply filled with random items spread across the floor.

 

This is only because players want the achievement and think players will visit their random junk stronghold only because they manage to bring up their points. When I check the leaderboard there are perhaps 3-5 players across the entire board that visit strongholds the rest are empty. This is simply because players has stopped caring about visiting other strongholds because it is a waste of time.

 

I suggested a voting system or even a "thumbs up or a thumbs down" option for players. It can even be optional if we want to use it or not, but please do something for us that have spent time creating a real stronghold.

 

We did it not only for ourselves, we did it for the community.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Icestar

[Jamus_Divinus]

I am definitely for the first itme you place an item it is 100 prestige but eveyr other time you place it in that same stronghold the prestige goes down to almost nothing.

 

I keep reading this more and more.

 

People are getting confused by the fact that there are 2 types of prestige.

 

Personal Prestige is what you get for adding a decoration to your collection. It's your overall prestige for the items you own. Nothing to do with placing items. You get +100 prestige for the first item type you add. You get +2 for every example of that type until you hit the cap for that particular decoration (50/50 etc). Example: the first Basic Metal Bed added gives you +100 personal prestige. The second one only +2.

 

You DON'T get personal prestige for any pets/mounts/companions etc.

 

Stronghold Prestige is basically the calculation of Personal Prestige X your completion % for that particular stronghold...then multiply the total by 2 (for being a subscriber).

 

Example, if my Personal prestige is 10,000 and I fill my DK stronghold to full capacity then my DK Stronghold prestige would be 20,000.

 

This is the prestige number others see.

 

Prestige only shows you how much of a collector the person is...not any indication of decorating talent. A voting system would be flawed and easily manipulated so we're stuck with this prestige system. A pity, I know.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Jamus_Divinus

[keimox]

I see what your saying about how conquest points favor large guilds. On POT5 I am in the biggest guild on the server and we frequently have 70+ on every night. We are trouncing everyone below us by over 2 million conquest points and there is no possible way they could ever come close to beating us. We just have so many people that they could never get close. Even the uber pvp guilds are getting stomped into the ground by our superior numbers. So my mass invite guild is destroying the hardcore pvp/pve guilds at conquest just cause we outnumber 2 or 3 to 1.

 

Imo there is nothing competitive in system that favors quantity over quality like this conquest system does.

In my server mediocre guilds with who knows how many players in their ranks are wiping floor with top progression and pvp guilds with ease. No matter how much those guild farm points they still can't compete against 3-5 or more players against 1 player ratio. And I'm pretty sure no-one is leaving top progression or pvp guild to farm some 40lvl trash for conquest points and some lousy 70k guild reward.