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PVE Scrapper Scoundrel Alternate Rotation

KantOrMill

By KantOrMill
in Scoundrel / Operative

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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

Posted
Posted (edited)

Updated for 3.0

Hello all, I wanted to make a post on the forums with a rotation that is slightly different from those in other guides. This post will be just about the rotation. The focus of this rotation is to keep Blood Boiler, Back Blast, and Bludgeon on cooldown as much as possible. This means that we will not be using Vital Shot, as we only will be getting round 2 every 12 seconds.

 

Key Skills

Back Blast (BaB)

Bludgeon (BD)

Cool Head (CH)

Disappearing Act (DA)

Flurry of Bolts (FB)

Pugnacity (PG)

Sucker Punch (SP)

Blood Boiler (BlB)

Shank Shot (SS)

 

 

Rotation

Rotation #1:

 

BaB > BlB > BD > SP > SP > SS > BD > SP

 

* Replace the Shank Shot with Pugnacity/Sucker Punch when available.

 

Rotation #2:

 

BaB > SP > BD > SP > SP > BlB > BD > SP

 

Rotation #3:

 

BaB > SS > BD > SP > SP > FB > BD > FB > (FB)

 

*Use second Flurry of Bolts if under 85 energy and Cool Head is on cool down after rotation #3

** Replace last flurry of bolts with Sucker Punch if Disappearing Act is off cool down (so Sucker Punch > Disappearing Act > Back Blast)

 

FAQ

Leave your questions in the comments below and I will do my best to answer them. If they are great questions that I hear often, or ones that I feel should be included in the guide, I'll add them in this section.

 

Hope you all found my guide useful, and let me know if it has helped your numbers at all.

Edited by KantOrMill
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Darth_Dreselus

Darth_Dreselus

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This is basically the same rotation as I am using, but I like to think of it as blocks of 4. I also tend to pair FR with FB but that does not really matter as both FB and BB cost 0.

 

following on from opener

 

BW-SP-SP-FS

BW-SP-BB-VS

BW-SP-SP-FS

BW-SP-BB-FS

 

21s rotation with 18s of VS uptime (and there is always a DoT present for SP)

 

I used to do an alternating rotation of 2x3 blocks

 

BW-SP-SP-FS

BW-SP-BB-FS

BW-SP-SP-VS

 

BW-SP-BB-FS

BW-SP-SP-FS

BW-SP-BB-VS

 

it has the same amount of SP and BB as well as full uptime on VS but it is hard energy wise I was almost never able to parse it without depleting Energy.

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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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This is basically the same rotation as I am using, but I like to think of it as blocks of 4. I also tend to pair FR with FB but that does not really matter as both FB and BB cost 0.

 

following on from opener

 

BW-SP-SP-FS

BW-SP-BB-VS

BW-SP-SP-FS

BW-SP-BB-FS

 

21s rotation with 18s of VS uptime (and there is always a DoT present for SP)

 

 

Doesn't that have 24 seconds between applications of vital shot just like my rotation?

 

I used to do an alternating rotation of 2x3 blocks

 

BW-SP-SP-FS

BW-SP-BB-FS

BW-SP-SP-VS

 

BW-SP-BB-FS

BW-SP-SP-FS

BW-SP-BB-VS

 

it has the same amount of SP and BB as well as full uptime on VS but it is hard energy wise I was almost never able to parse it without depleting Energy.

 

Yeah the second rotation is too energy intensive to stay in the maximum regen area of your energy bar over the course of a fight, doesn't have enough flurry of bolts.

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Darth_Dreselus

Darth_Dreselus

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Doesn't that have 24 seconds between applications of vital shot just like my rotation?

 

Yes, I miscalculated.

 

In other words it is missing out on 2-4 ticks (with Mortal Wound), which is nothing in comparison to the benefits of keeping BW and BB on their respective cooldowns and maximising SP use. In fact those rotations use Round Two every 12s but I don't think there is a good way of keeping on 10, at least not without delaying BW.

Edited by Darth_Dreselus
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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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Yes, I miscalculated.

 

In other words it is missing out on 2-4 ticks (with Mortal Wound), which is nothing in comparison to the benefits of keeping BW and BB on their respective cooldowns and maximising SP use. In fact those rotations use Round Two every 12s but I don't think there is a good way of keeping on 10, at least not without delaying BW.

 

Yeah that was the reasoning behind this rotation. I calculated time between activations of some of the top parses on the various leaderboards, and haven't found a rotation that has more uses of bw, bb, and sp with regard to time.

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Ardarell_Solo

Ardarell_Solo

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Yeah the second rotation is too energy intensive to stay in the maximum regen area of your energy bar over the course of a fight, doesn't have enough flurry of bolts.

 

I actually use that rotation and it's true that managing energy is quite difficult with it. I've found that the key is using FR at the very last moment before activating BB. If I succeed in doing that, I can maintain that rotation without running out of energy...

All energy problems aside, do you think the rotation itself is stronger than the one you listed?

 

Either way I will try what you suggested tonight and report back, so thanks for the info in advance :-)

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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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I actually use that rotation and it's true that managing energy is quite difficult with it. I've found that the key is using FR at the very last moment before activating BB. If I succeed in doing that, I can maintain that rotation without running out of energy...

All energy problems aside, do you think the rotation itself is stronger than the one you listed?

 

Either way I will try what you suggested tonight and report back, so thanks for the info in advance :-)

 

The problem with the rotation, even if waiting for the last second to activate BB, is that the BW - SP - BB - VS - BW - SP - SP portion would get you into the slow regen portion of your energy bar. The problem with disregarding energy issues when comparing rotations is that issue is probably the most important factor.. Take your normal rotation and replace FB with quick shot and sabotage charge when its off cd and you'll do a lot of damage, for a small amount of time.

Edited by KantOrMill
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Ardarell_Solo

Ardarell_Solo

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The problem with the rotation, even if waiting for the last second to activate BB, is that the BW - SP - BB - VS - BW - SP - SP portion would get you into the slow regen portion of your energy bar.

 

Tested it this morning, but Torparse is so darn slow atm that I couldn't compare parses regarding Crit Damage, so I'm not able to give you reliable numbers today.

But: I actually never drop to slow regen energy levels in the section you listed. That may be because I probably delay FR so much at times that I probably delay BB by a tenth of a second or so, too.

Either way, regen stays at full bars all the time in my parse - at least until the next DA/Cool Head combo comes back up.

DPS wise I think I'm better off that way, but as I said I couldn't compare numbers yet as they don't mean much without Crit Damage comparison (My parse in my "old" rotation was better dps wise...).

 

I'll go on testing and post again, when I can compare Crit Damage as well.

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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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Tested it this morning, but Torparse is so darn slow atm that I couldn't compare parses regarding Crit Damage, so I'm not able to give you reliable numbers today.

But: I actually never drop to slow regen energy levels in the section you listed. That may be because I probably delay FR so much at times that I probably delay BB by a tenth of a second or so, too.

Either way, regen stays at full bars all the time in my parse - at least until the next DA/Cool Head combo comes back up.

DPS wise I think I'm better off that way, but as I said I couldn't compare numbers yet as they don't mean much without Crit Damage comparison (My parse in my "old" rotation was better dps wise...).

 

I'll go on testing and post again, when I can compare Crit Damage as well.

 

Yeah, I tried to compare our 2 leaderboard parses, since it looks like we have comparable gear (unless you start getting a lot of NiM gear), but they were loading way to slow and I gave up. The numbers I'm interested in are the time between activations of BB, BW, and SP, because that will be the definitive answer on which rotation uses them the most frequently.

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Ardarell_Solo

Ardarell_Solo

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Funny thing, I had the same idea, when I saw both our parses on the leaderboard and compared AMRs. But didn't work for me either, Torparse really has some serious problems. I'd obviously be very much interested in the analysis you proposed and will check back here.

 

Btw not much more NiM gear to be expected on Craeg anytime soon, atm I'm just sending the occasional enhancement I can't use on my main (Sent). And since we rarely do NiM alt runs in our guild, gearing him up will be rather slow...

Edited by Ardarell_Solo
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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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I know people said that the:

 

BW -> SP -> SP -> VS ->

BW -> SP -> BB -> FB ->

BW -> SP -> SP -> FB ->

BW -> SP -> BB -> VS ->

BW -> SP -> SP -> FB ->

BW -> SP -> BB -> FB ->

 

rotation is too energy intensive, but I found a way to slightly modify it to keep in good energy:

 

BW -> SP -> VS -> SP ->

BW -> SP -> FB -> [FR] BB ->

BW -> SP -> FB -> SP ->

BW -> SP -> VS -> [FR] BB ->

BW -> SP -> FB -> SP ->

BW -> SP -> FB -> [FR] BB ->

 

AKA, swap GCD 3 and 4 around, and put Flechette round on miliseconds before backblasting.

 

Energy shouldn't drop into low regen zone, lets you have 100% uptime on vital shot (with 1/2 into Vital Shot duration)

 

As for maths to prove it!

 

Energy/GCD = 9

 

BW = 16 energy

SP = 15 energy, refunds 8

VS = 16 energy

BB = 0 energy

FB = 0 energy

FR = 15 energy

 

Accounting for the natural energy/GCD of 9, assuming energy use doesn't go above 40, the abilities are:

 

BW = -7 energy

SP = +2 energy

VS = -7 energy

BB = +9 energy

FB = +9 energy

FR = -6 energy

 

Converted into my rotation we get:

 

-7 +2 -7 +2 10 energy

-7 +2 +9 -6 12 energy

-7 +2 +9 +2 6 energy

 

-7 +2 -7 -6 24 energy

-7 +2 +9 +2 18 energy

-7 +2 +9 -6 20 energy

 

EDIT - well now that I mathed it out it fell apart :p

Edited by TACeMossie
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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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I know people said that the:

 

BW -> SP -> SP -> VS ->

BW -> SP -> BB -> FB ->

BW -> SP -> SP -> FB ->

BW -> SP -> BB -> VS ->

BW -> SP -> SP -> FB ->

BW -> SP -> BB -> FB ->

 

rotation is too energy intensive, but I found a way to slightly modify it to keep in good energy:

 

BW -> SP -> VS -> SP ->

BW -> SP -> FB -> [FR] BB ->

BW -> SP -> FB -> SP ->

BW -> SP -> VS -> [FR] BB ->

BW -> SP -> FB -> SP ->

BW -> SP -> FB -> [FR] BB ->

 

AKA, swap GCD 3 and 4 around, and put Flechette round on miliseconds before backblasting.

 

Energy shouldn't drop into low regen zone, lets you have 100% uptime on vital shot (with 1/2 into Vital Shot duration)

 

As for maths to prove it!

 

Energy/GCD = 9

 

BW = 16 energy

SP = 15 energy, refunds 8

VS = 16 energy

BB = 0 energy

FB = 0 energy

FR = 15 energy

 

Accounting for the natural energy/GCD of 9, assuming energy use doesn't go above 40, the abilities are:

 

BW = -7 energy

SP = +2 energy

VS = -7 energy

BB = +9 energy

FB = +9 energy

FR = -6 energy

 

Converted into my rotation we get:

 

-7 +2 -7 +2 10 energy

-7 +2 +9 -6 12 energy

-7 +2 +9 +2 6 energy

 

-7 +2 -7 -6 24 energy

-7 +2 +9 +2 18 energy

-7 +2 +9 -6 20 energy

 

EDIT - well now that I mathed it out it fell apart :p

 

Yeah did the same math when I first looked at the rotation, it really looks through the anecdotal evidence in this thread that there isn't really a way to keep 100% up time on VS without sacrificing something else. So it basically comes down to which you prefer for your play style. Personally I've had more luck with the rotation in my original post, but both are viable ways to play a scoundrel. (except for the energy negative best of both worlds rotation) ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...
KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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So torparse seems to be working a bit faster for the time being. Looked at our leaderboard parses, and made the following spreadsheet to show the average time between hits.

 

Spreadsheet

 

As you can see, my rotation missed out on 25 ticks of vital shot (roughly 3 activations, which is to be expected), but also, despite being 2 seconds shorter, uses more Sucker punches, blaster whips, and backblasts. Also, my rotation uses less flurry of bolts.

Edited by KantOrMill
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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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Added an average damage per hit swap for your analysis.

 

Average Damage per Hit Swap - Craeg and Slaffen

 

This basically shows that if you used the rotation in the op, while keeping the exact same damage values from your parse (identical crit rates, vs procs, etc.) that you could have squeezed an additional ~40 more dps out of your parse.

Edited by KantOrMill
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Ardarell_Solo

Ardarell_Solo

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Wow, thanks for the effort you took creating this!

 

And sry for answering late, been busy trying to get council pre-nerf, but alas... ;-)

 

Sooo: You've convinced me and I will definitely work on your rotation in the next weeks. Will keep you updated, if I can improve my parsing with it.

 

Thanks again and best regards!

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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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some of you guys who try to make an algorithm and try to squeeze out every little number you can make me laugh. This is supposed to be a fun game. You are just sucking all the fun out of PLAYING a GAME.

 

That's the great thing about playing games, everyone has their own likes and dislikes and is entitled to their opinion. <3

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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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Why do you use Flurry of Bolts? Shank Shot is a much better filler. Why do you use Blood Boiler after Bludgeon on the first rotation? Surely working with crits is better than against them?

 

He makes a good point.

 

For now, just adjust it as follows (as far as I could tell, we're going Rotation 1 -> Rotation 2 -> Rotation 3 -> Rotation 1...

 

Shank Shot = SS

 

Rotation #1

BaB > BlB > BD > SP > SP > SS > BD > SP

 

Rotation #2

BaB > SP > BD > SP > SP > BlB > BD > SP

 

Rotation #3

BaB > SS > BD > SP > SP > FB > BD > FB > (FB)

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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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Why do you use Flurry of Bolts? Shank Shot is a much better filler.

 

Yes, that is a very good point, updating in OP.

 

Why do you use Blood Boiler after Bludgeon on the first rotation? Surely working with crits is better than against them?

 

I'm pretty sure you meant to say this the other way around, why do i use Blood Boiler before Bludgeon in the first rotation? This is actually in there because I don't have the set bonus that gives the auto crit yet, so I don't know exactly how it works. Maybe someone can shed some light on this. Blood Boiler gets an auto crit after using bludgeon, once per minute. The very first blood boiler in the opener doesn't actually deal damage until about 1.5 seconds after you use bludgeon, so will the blood boiler receive the auto crit proc, or will it be applied to your next blood boiler that is activated after your bludgeon deals damage?

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mbfhl

mbfhl

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Yeah that's what I meant. I don't have it either but I thought it would work with it granting a buff, that is consumed when you activate BlB. Knowing Bioware though... I mean, they can't even spell 'Blood Boiler' correctly on the set bonus.
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KantOrMill

KantOrMill

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Yeah that's what I meant. I don't have it either but I thought it would work with it granting a buff, that is consumed when you activate BlB. Knowing Bioware though... I mean, they can't even spell 'Blood Boiler' correctly on the set bonus.

 

Yeah since I'm not sure how the set bonus works exactly, I'm going to leave it the way it is for now. Once I figure it out, I'll make any changes necessary.

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