Weekly server maintenance EU times?

[Atroxy]

Firstly I am not defending anyone intentionally. I have no side in this at all. I am simply trying to explain to those with less insight into these things, some relevant factors as I do happen to have alittle experience in this area.

 

Secondly As I stated, it is apparent that BW cannot do US and EU maintenance independently, meaning when the realms are down for US, they must go down for EU too. The middle of the night for EU is evening for US. So they cannot do maintenance at that time.

 

Third your comment about wow maintenance times and changes to them is completely made up. Sorry but WoW has never intentionally had EU maintenance during EU peak hours or at the same time as the US. Their regions aren't even connected. (which meant they could do independent maintenance)

 

Actually thats a good thing to clear up;

 

You notice when you log into wow, you only see EU or US realms. This is because the regions are seperate. The authentication for logging in is seperate.

 

Now the reason you see both US and EU on SWTOR is because they are not seperate, and they share the same authentication. So to stop people logging into the game in one region, they have to disable authentication for everyone.

 

Sorry for the wall of text.

 

You are stating something that can be changed. And you are defending them. Everything your posting is not for the community but in their favor.

 

If blizzard can arrange their server shutdowns during the night so can BW. And because wow has been out for a long time, why hasn't BW used the same strategy? If both EU and US servers are connected and cannot be disconnected sepperatly, than BW has made some serious mistakes and clearly left the EU community in the dark. Why should it be our concern that BW has been that ignorant that they do both maintenance periods the same time?

 

You are forgetting that we still lose 48 days a year. Will they compensate the EU community? Will they give us 48 days of free playtime?

 

I think changing their server setups will be more cost effective than refunding hunderds of thousands of EU players. But I as a EU player does not accept chris collins reply to this thread and they know this topic is the first of many. And people will be asking for a refund. Same as they did with blizzard and wow. And they are in their right.

[TheHauntingBard]

Forums got wiped out remember .

But yes people from the EU have been asking for it and they got a response from BW about it stating they won't take servers down during the EU day time/prime time.

There have been quite some topics about this matter back in beta.

 

They tend to change their mind a lot, look up the LFG tool comments on twitter.

Same deal in beta BW stated they where working on it, no dice either.

 

 

Edit:

 

Telling your costumers to suck it up and that it isn't bad when an extended maintenance is going far into EU prime time is just arrogant.

That or you're basically telling ' we don't care about the EU or their subs' in that case your loss as company since poor costumer service will bite back *coughs* Warhammer.

 

Besides Blizzard has sublime costumer servers, that's the new standard.

Sadly it makes Bioware/EA look like amateurs, I think that's pretty sad for such a huge company.

 

I don't buy the ' the game is new' either, they knew the standards and they released the game.

It's their mistake if they can't handle it.

Edited December 28, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[Atroxy]

Its this type of response that depresses me the most.

 

We are not defending anyone, we are simply trying to offer you some insight as to why it is the way it is.

 

I haven't once said if I think its a good or a bad system. I have simply explained the system and a very probable reason for it, to you.

 

And you are? BW sidekick? BW rep? Or are you just sucking this intel out of your thumb as you go along?

 

We get depressed that people like you are taking the sides of those who take your money and leave us hanging.

[Archannon]

Dekey, I'm starting to wonder... are you living in the EU or in the US?

 

I will not be surprised if maintenance is going to be extended quite a few times. As I see it now, that's not a problem for the US, but it is a problem for the EU.

 

I get the feeling you don't have any impact from these maintenance times, which makes it easy to defend them. I'm not saying I want the US to suffer instead of us.

 

What I want is to be treated equally. And hell, if that means seperating the servers.. Give people from the EU the option to join the US servers instead and vice versa, just seperate the servers.

 

But hell, I'm done discussing this with you to be honest. It's obvious we have different viewpoints on the matter. I realise the issue is a difficult one with various aspects. I just feel that this current maintenance impacts a large amount of customers. But with no way to back those feelings up (instead of alot of these threads having been closed and this one having grown quite rapidly in size..), I think the best way is to see what happens with the next few maintenances. If the same stuff happens I reckon this topic will be discussed many times in the future..

 

And if not, I was wrong.

[Syas]

Peak is not between 10am and 4 pm

[dekey]

You are stating something that can be changed. And you are defending them. Everything your posting is not for the community but in their favor.

 

I am part of the community. I post in no-ones favor, I simply tolerate and comprehend the situation.

 

If blizzard can arrange their server shutdowns during the night so can BW. And because wow has been out for a long time, why hasn't BW used the same strategy?

 

I have answered this several times, you have even quoted my answer.

 

You are forgetting that we still lose 48 days a year. Will they compensate the EU community? Will they give us 48 days of free playtime?

 

Everyone loses "48" days a year. The exact same days. If My free time happened to be 1am>9am, and maintenance was moved to this time, should I feel entitled because I would lose "48" days a year?

 

I think changing their server setups will be more cost effective than refunding hunderds of thousands of EU players. But I as a EU player does not accept chris collins reply to this thread and they know this topic is the first of many. And people will be asking for a refund. Same as they did with blizzard and wow. And they are in their right.

 

You aren't entitled to a refund and you wont get a refund. Review the terms of service. WoW has also never given a refund for extended maintenance times. Only occasionally have they given free play time at a day or two amounts as a gesture of goodwill. Please stop making these statements up.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dekey

[TheHauntingBard]

Peak is not between 10am and 4 pm

 

Most players use central European time which happened to be 11:00 up to 17:00 that is going into peak time.

The moment something goes wrong with a minor patch it goes far into peak time.

Last patch is a nice example 11:00 up to 19:30, that's simply embarrassing.

 

A big patch will result in the servers being up when people go to bed.

 

 

You aren't entitled to a refund and you wont get a refund. Review the terms of service. WoW has also never given a refund for extended maintenance times. Only occasionally have they given free play time at a day or two amounts as a gesture of goodwill. Please stop making these statements up.

 

When you buy the game from Origin you got 14 days after the release date to ask for a refund, after it tough luck.

You can't get a refund because servers are down during horrible times, you agreed with that they can do it when ever they want.

 

The fact Blizzard is a polite company that did hand out free days a lot because of the server crashes and plans their maintenance on convenient times just shows that they are a good company with courtesy.

 

Recall I got like 1 month + of free time from WOW , even got a day when their maintenance lasted 3 hours longer.

But enough about Blizzard , this is EA so fat chance about courtesy seems even a small chance that they bother fixing the maintenance.

 

Ah well good service and good costumer support goes a long way, let's see when it starts to bite back.

Edited December 28, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[dekey]

Dekey, I'm starting to wonder... are you living in the EU or in the US?

 

I will not be surprised if maintenance is going to be extended quite a few times. As I see it now, that's not a problem for the US, but it is a problem for the EU.

 

I get the feeling you don't have any impact from these maintenance times, which makes it easy to defend them. I'm not saying I want the US to suffer instead of us.

 

I'm in EU and infact this last maintenance time was actually the only part of the day when I CAN log in and play. So this will effect me completely every single time.

 

But hell, I'm done discussing this with you to be honest.

 

Then don't start by asking me a question

Edited December 28, 2011 by dekey

[Atroxy]

Well blizzard has given refunds and moren than once. Not to forget they do have shutdowns during the night. And no those refunds were not just a gesture. You are forgetting that the community feeds them. In order to keep order you must give. Same policy BW will have to apply. They will have to adjust their current maintenance periods for the EU.

 

BW has no excuse. Really. And yes, the us community loses maybe 2 or 3 hours during the morning. That is a not a day according to my calculations. Shutting the servers down from morning till evening, is... .

[Archannon]

I'm in EU and infact this last maintenance time was actually the only part of the day when I CAN log in and play. So this will effect me completely every single time.

 

Then you are stronger in the Force than I am.

[dekey]

And you are? BW sidekick? BW rep? Or are you just sucking this intel out of your thumb as you go along?

 

We get depressed that people like you are taking the sides of those who take your money and leave us hanging.

 

I have no affiliation with Bioware, nor EA. I am simply another player like yourself. The only difference is I have worked in this industry and have an understanding of the problems inherent with things like this.

 

Once again I am taking no-ones side. I wasn't even aware we were supposed to choose one. I'm just trying (in vain it seems) to explain to you and your kind that this really isn't done to simply piss you off.

[Lolliipopp]

'Server will shut down in 10 minutes, please check the forums for further info'

 

*Typing swtor.com*

 

'The website is currently undergoing maintenance'

 

 

Yeah right.....

[TheHauntingBard]

Well true it's a smart business move from Blizzard to do so.

Both the maintenance and the refunds, but as costumer I appreciate it.

Not because I care much about the money for one day.

It also shows the company isn't hiding behind their EULA they could easily state' you agreed so /care'.

 

They are right if they say that but the other way wins your costumers.

Bioware on the other hand says in both cases /care.

 

I don't see how any European costumer can appreciate that.

[dekey]

Well true it's a smart business move from Blizzard to do so.

Both the maintenance and the refunds, but as costumer I appreciate it.

Not because I care much about the money for one day.

It also shows the company isn't hiding behind their EULA they could easily state' you agreed so /care'.

 

They are right if they say that but the other way wins your costumers.

Bioware on the other hand says in both cases /care.

 

I don't see how any European costumer can appreciate that.

 

I get the impression from other areas that Customer Service isn't at the top of the agenda yet so I wouldn't have to great an expectation for it with this case.

[Atroxy]

I have no affiliation with Bioware, nor EA. I am simply another player like yourself. The only difference is I have worked in this industry and have an understanding of the problems inherent with things like this.

 

Once again I am taking no-ones side. I wasn't even aware we were supposed to choose one. I'm just trying (in vain it seems) to explain to you and your kind that this really isn't done to simply piss you off.

 

Me and my kind... .

 

You mean people who don't just throw in the towel?

 

I do understand the situation, but again, why should it concern me that their server shutdown arrangement is unlogical? Should I say, yes BW thanks for taking away 4 days a month which I do pay for. Seriously?

 

If I buy a car and my car works perfectly fine for 6 days a week. And on one day it doesn't. One day a week that I can't use it. But I did pay for it. This may be a dumb comparison, but I'm sure you get the picture.

 

I do believe the community has something to say about these things. This is only the first real big maintenance. Wait till next week and the week after that and so on.

 

But really, the only reason your here is not to support the community but just to show others how wrong the community is and how easily we have to accept things we shouldn't.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Atroxy

[TheHauntingBard]

Well in all honesty I don't think Bioware will bother with proper EU maintenance or good costumer support for a while.

Lets be fair most people won't cancel their sub over one or two slip ups or an arrogant CM.

 

How ever if you keep rubbing your costumers the wrong way and mess up more you can expect it to have consequences.

 

Of course it's much smarter to fix that before it happens.

This nice feedback thread is a good reminder about the fact people aren't happy.

As said not every one that is unhappy about it will voice their opinion, but a sub is a sub.

If you can keep subs with a good service why risk losing them by doing this?

 

Let's be honest they are a rich company and hiring a second team to do a maintenance in Ireland during EU down time isn't a huge problem.

Neither will EU people zerg the US servers at 4:00.

 

I can see why Bioware has this attitude, I just think it's a bad idea.

It's not the first or the last time a company loses subs/costumers because they treat their costumers poorly.

[Atroxy]

Well in all honesty I don't think Bioware will bother with proper EU maintenance or good costumer support for a while.

Lets be fair most people won't cancel their sub over one or two slip ups or an arrogant CM.

 

How ever if you keep rubbing your costumers the wrong way and mess up more you can expect it to have consequences.

 

Of course it's much smarter to fix that before it happens.

This nice feedback thread is a good reminder about the fact people aren't happy.

As said not every one that is unhappy about it will voice their opinion, but a sub is a sub.

If you can keep subs with a good service why risk losing them by doing this?

 

Let's be honest they are a rich company and hiring a second team to do a maintenance in Ireland during EU down time isn't a huge problem.

Neither will EU people zerg the US servers at 4:00.

 

I can see why Bioware has this attitude, I just think it's a bad idea.

It's not the first or the last time a company loses subs/costumers because they treat their costumers poorly.

 

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.

[Ackzabar]

And that seems correct in the US, but in europe the time is 10AM to 4PM.... How is that in anyway during off peak-hours. Its in the middle off the day.

 

At this time on Tuesdays people are at school/work, so yeah, it's off peak-hours. Staying at home all day playing games is not the norm. I can't believe people have a problem with downtime in this timeframe.

[dekey]

Me and my kind... .

 

You mean people who don't just throw in the towel?

 

No I mean people who, despite having things explained to them, continue to question why. Irrationals.

 

I do understand the situation, but again, why should it concern me that their server shutdown arrangement is unlogical?

 

Because it's how they are doing it and it effects you, so you should know their reasons. You don't however have to agree with them of course, just understand that there are reasons.

 

If I buy a car and my car works perfectly fine for 6 days a week. And on one day it doesn't. One day a week that I can't use it. But I did pay for it. This may be a dumb comparison, but I'm sure you get the picture.

 

If your car came with a manual that said "This car will be taken down for maintenance and will be unavilable for driving", yes.

 

 

I do believe the community has something to say about these things. This is only the first real big maintenance. Wait till next week and the week after that and so on.

 

But really, the only reason your here is not to support the community but just to show others how wrong the community is and how easily we have to accept things we shouldn't.

 

Again the reason i'm here is to try and explain to people more rational to yourself that may be reading this thread, that this isn't all in an effort to piss of EU, as your posts would have them believe.

 

Also please stop making statements that place me in opposition to the "community". I am as much a part of this community as you are and my opinion is just as valid.

 

Freedom of speech isn't about being able to say what you want, it's about accepting the words of others. Every post I have made has been passive and explanatory. Every post you have made has accused me of being "anti-community" and on the take. Quite aggressive.

[itzSeraph]

The Maint' times should be brought forward by 2-4 hours, and then that would be perfectly acceptable for us european players.

[TheHauntingBard]

At this time on Tuesdays people are at school/work, so yeah, it's off peak-hours. Staying at home all day playing games is not the norm. I can't believe people have a problem with downtime in this timeframe.

 

Can't believe that it's hard to understand that.

 

A: For most EU countries it's 11:00 up to 17:00 (even later for more Eastern EU countries)

B: Extended maintenance will go far into prime time like last time, 19:30.

C: Not all people work from 8 to 17:00.

D: Not all people work during week days, some work in a weekend.

E:Part of the costumers are students/teen agers they are pretty much free around that time.

 

All that aside my biggest issue is that an extended maintenance will be in the EU prime time.

 

As I stated above if you can keep subs by providing good service to every one why not do so, you don't lose anything.

There will be no harm in doing the maintenance during the night/early morning for the EU.

 

Flip side providing a mediocre service and risking angry costumers will cost you subs.

There is no real gain in doing this, it's just bad PR.

Taking down the forums as well to prevent people from voice their opinion is just fueling it.

 

 

I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

As for people their personal opinion, I think costumers that don't demand are the reason why companies release broken games.

 

Ubisoft released HOMM6 in a horrible state and people on the forums where actually defending it that it was alright that the game was unplayable at launch.

I just don't get why would any one would want to talk this right.

Edited December 28, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[Ackzabar]

Can't believe that it's hard to understand that.

 

A: For most EU countries it's 11:00 up to 17:00 (even later for more Eastern EU countries)

B: Extended maintenance will go far into prime time like last time, 19:30.

C: Not all people work from 8 to 17:00.

D: Not all people work during week days, some work in a weekend.

E:Part of the costumers are students/teen agers they are pretty much free around that time.

 

All that aside my biggest issue is that an extended maintenance will be in the EU prime time.

 

OK, I can agree with you in that extended maintenance is a problem in Europe, but I'm still of the opinion that the people who are able to play during the day on Tuesdays are a minority. Of course downtime is always going to affect someone, but the important thing is to place it when it affects as few people as possible, not when noone is affected. If downtime were at night, some people would complain even then.

[TheHauntingBard]

I think up to 15:00 would be perfectly fine for an EU maintenance.

Even when you extend it the servers will be up around 18:00 GMT +1 which isn't something all that bad.

Sure some would prefer it in the morning but it is hardly something to complain about.

 

Thing is that even with small patches an extended maintenance isn't all that uncommon in the first half year of a new MMO.

Taking your EU costumers into consideration and adjusting the times a bit is simply smarter.

 

Turn it around how will US costumers respond if every patch will result in the servers being down during prime time.

I'm pretty sure they will not be all that happy.

Edited December 28, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[Mandrax]

At this time on Tuesdays people are at school/work, so yeah, it's off peak-hours. Staying at home all day playing games is not the norm. I can't believe people have a problem with downtime in this timeframe.

 

That MIGHT be the case, but there are better times to do it when even less players are on.

[Lady_Femke]

Wrong, it is not off peak. Off peak is a term applied to a period of time to denote when there is not a fairly large audience participation.

 

More and more of us old fogies, who are young pensioners, are getting into the games market, and for us, EU prime time is this stupid time that BW/EA are using as their best time to maintain the servers.

 

This presumption that only children and youngish adults are the ones that should be catered to is very irritating. It costs me the same amount of cash each month as it does young people, so why should I not receive that same amount of available uptime as them.

 

I appreciate that major patches and expansions will nesecitate longish downtimes, but bug fix patches do not need such a huge amount of downtime unless the client your working on has substandard code. Judging by the amount of claimed dev money spent on this game the code should be very streamlined and needing the lowest amount of downtime of all MMO's right from the get go. Sadly this isn't happening.

 

I see no reason why this extended downtime cannot start at 24:00 CST and finish around 06:00-07:00 CST at the worst so by EU lunchtime it will be all over. This would cause only an hour or two disruption to the American market prime time while only interfering with EU prime time (Day Time) by about 2-3 hours.

 

Dev answer please.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Lady_Femke