Possible buffs

[Ryuku-sama]

I thought about mara/sent lately and all those crying for buff to mara. SO I'll propose a few simple one I kinda wish to see.

 

1° Create a new passive : Enraged Movement/Focused Movement. This passive would allow leap to be used while rooted. Right now roots and slows are the worst enemies of any mara/sent. Keep an Anni/Watchman away and he can't build up his stacks. Keep a Carnage/Combat away during Gore/PS window and it hits like a wet noodle. The only spec not really affected by roots is Rage/Focus cause they can Obliterate/Zealous Leap while rooted!!! Obviously this would affect Anni/Watchman more since they have a close quarter leap but Carnage/Combat have Force Camo to remove movement imparing effects.

 

2° Make Pulverize/Mind Sear works exactly like Pyro's PPA/Assault Spec IA. Basicly it means every second use of an ability proccing Pulverize/Mind Sear would proc it. RNG would still be in the spec since not proccing on Annihilate/Merciless Slash would force a one GCD delay later in the rotation ro realign Annihilate/Merciless Slash with the new ICD. Anni/Watchman can't keep using Annihilate/Merciless SLash > VS/Slash without running out of energy and missing a Ravage/Master Strike window. (This idea is from Benirons)

 

3° Make Slaughter/HoJ proc grants a 50% chance to proc Execute/OA on an Ataru Form strike over the normal 30%. This would make sure Carnage/Combat actually can't really do a Gore/PS window without this proc which lower DPS by quite a bit. It would be a good QoLchange without actually removing the RNG from Execute/OA.

 

4° Make CoP/Rebuke last 10 seconds baseline. Right now, CoP/Rebuke is too easy to ignore. Just a 8 sec mezz and the DCD is lost.

 

5° Revert UR/GbtF to what it was before the nerf but now UR/GbtF would reduce incoming healing by 50%. At the same time, add in Infatiguable Onslaught/Inexhaustible Zeal 'your healing from DoTs is not longer affected by UR/GbtF debuff'.

 

Thoughts and opinions????

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ryuku-sama

[Benirons]

1

 

Vigilance or vengence is pretty darn viable if not outright OP in pvp atm, so some of the skills they have would help greatly us marauders.

 

Atm our one official gapcloser is peanuts. Doesnt give any protection of any form, compared to 20% dr and 4 sec cc immunity. I think adding such a perk in for ataru form would be a very good improvement for carnage. Right now what I find myself doing a lot in pvp is running to people, wait for a knockback then leap back in only to be stunned. Force charge is just too weak.

 

Rooting is a legit ranged kiting tactic, so if melee can ignore that on a regular basis I doubt it would be balanced (the 30m gapcloser I mean). But once used, the marauder should not be susceptible to all the ridiculousness we r right now. Think environment: huttball, you leap up only to be knocked down then nuked to death.

 

2

 

 

Thanks for the credit Im having my fingers crossed for this change (oh right, also for some less crippling rng for carnage naturally XD).

 

3

 

Hm, ataru form procs r tricky. I think the proc system should be revamped and make all the procs come from massacre activations. 2 uses for execute and slaughter should do the trick, 1 too few, 3 too much. It still drives me nuts to do force charge only to get slaughter right away, doing 3 massacres back to back and not get either proc in an important burn phase or close calls in pvp. This is just me though, im very anti rng and pro reliability XD.

 

4

 

Cant comment much on this one. In pvp I get hit a bunch all the time (dots, aoes and what not) so mezzes r likely to be broken early as a result unless there is very careful control. I think its fine as it is now, I pop it and its up for 30 secs most of the time, good enough for me, not like it has a terribly long cd anyway.

 

5

 

Undying rage, the way it functions now in pvp is utter garbage, VERY situational uses like fire or acid pit in huttball, or desperate 1v1s near death. Even in operations its sucks most of the time. Okay I can say eat an orb on brontes when I want, but then I have my healers grumpling at me having to heal 20k HP again. Or when im low I use it, they top me off only to get back to 50% again.

 

The health cost is better the other way around. Also would be great to be able to use while stunned (pvp environment mostly). Hey im dying! I wanna pop my defensive! But Im not angry enough and im stunned ... and now im dead....

 

I also read somewhere a suggestion to use force camo while stunned (guess it would undo the stun as well? not sure). One or the other would be pretty nice improvement but I would prefer the undying rage change.

 

To this I would also like to add the healing in ani. Given how ****** the surviveability of that three is, having the 2% heal per crit back would be pretty sweet (it was b4 my time, so I am unaware if its completely broken or not ... but hey, madness inquisitors can heal 10% prettyeasily every 15 secs, plus dot crits, plus crushing darkness, its a lot).

[JouerTue]

ok but unstoppable/unremitting would be too much..aswell as cc(not stun) immunity during gore/precision..

[Ryuku-sama]

ok but unstoppable/unremitting would be too much..aswell as cc(not stun) immunity during gore/precision..

 

I don't want the cc immunity... It's nice but not needed.. I just ask for our leap to be usable while rooted....

 

 

And Ben.. your buff to leap would make us OP. Gore without being stunned?? OP.. so much OP. RNG for Carnage is good if we had a reliable way to proc Execute quickly for our second Gore window. We can get far enough Ataru Form strikes with Massacre and its buff during our downtime but during the 9sec between Force Scream in the first window and the one in the second window while including a Ravage in it.. you can easily not get it in time.

[Benirons]

Fair'nuff, am not much for pvp balancing hehe. If not for canarge, then maybe for juyo form instead since rage also has a pretty nice burst right off the bat.

 

It would allow sticking to the target a fair bit more.

 

Being able to charge out of a root would gimp obliterate a bit (its uniqueness I mean), and rage maras r going to be pretty hard to stop unless hard stunned.

 

I think ill let that area of discussion to those who r more experienced in the pvp environment than I.

[Ryuku-sama]

Fair'nuff, am not much for pvp balancing hehe. If not for canarge, then maybe for juyo form instead since rage also has a pretty nice burst right off the bat.

 

It would allow sticking to the target a fair bit more.

 

Being able to charge out of a root would gimp obliterate a bit (its uniqueness I mean), and rage maras r going to be pretty hard to stop unless hard stunned.

 

I think ill let that area of discussion to those who r more experienced in the pvp environment than I.

 

Are you mad??? Anni use Leap every 12 sec. Getting 4s CC-immune every 12 sec.. Talk about OPness -.-

And no.. Being able to leap through root wouldn't make Obliterate less unique. It does more damage than Leap AND make Smash an auto-crit. It wouldn't change anything for Rage and allow the 2 others spec (especially Anni) to stick better to their target.

[Benirons]

Are you mad???

 

Lol chill I already gave up.

 

But u know Vengence gets it every 15 secs along with dr, nerf dem juggies! Being able to leap around all over the place, friend and foe makes them really really powerful. Something bit more marginal along those lines would be nice for the marauder.

 

Also keep this in mind: Leap in, 20% dr, 4 sec cc innuminty, 10% more dmg for 5 secs ( I think?) with set bonus. That ravage is gonna hurt bad. Not a lot can be done about it a lot of the times, therefore its miles ahead of where gore is should a carnage mara do the same.

 

I pretty much only pvp on my sorc and juggy is by far the strongest melee in terms of sturdyness. OP? Up to discussion, but it gives you an idea of what a melee needs to be able to do well with and not have to be the most ridiculously skill capped in existance.

[Ryuku-sama]

Lol chill I already gave up.

 

But u know Vengence gets it every 15 secs along with dr, nerf dem juggies! Being able to leap around all over the place, friend and foe makes them really really powerful. Something bit more marginal along those lines would be nice for the marauder.

 

Also keep this in mind: Leap in, 20% dr, 4 sec cc innuminty, 10% more dmg for 5 secs ( I think?) with set bonus. That ravage is gonna hurt bad. Not a lot can be done about it a lot of the times, therefore its miles ahead of where gore is should a carnage mara do the same.

 

I pretty much only pvp on my sorc and juggy is by far the strongest melee in terms of sturdyness. OP? Up to discussion, but it gives you an idea of what a melee needs to be able to do well with and not have to be the most ridiculously skill capped in existance.

 

Well.. the 10% bonus is also on mara set bonus. And the difference is simple. Juggs CANNOT use leap in melee range. Anni can. And giving unremitting to Carnage would make them OP. Leap. Pop Gore, Ravage. If the mara isn't stunned between the end of Unremitting and the last tick of Ravage, well he got a kill.. Or the tha taget will die very soon. If the mara happens to have Berserk up, well.. the target is dead cause uninterruptable Ravage under Gore + Dispatch (cause the target will likely be under 30%) + FS if needed without proc will kill anything short of a tank if they don't pop DCDs. If the mara have Bloodthirst AND Zen up.. Well think about it.. You can't give mara Unremitting without making them OP.

 

And Pyro PT, AP PT are pretty much as good DPS as jugg.. and also melee.

[Tziila]

Are you mad??? Anni use Leap every 12 sec. Getting 4s CC-immune every 12 sec.. Talk about OPness -.-

And no.. Being able to leap through root wouldn't make Obliterate less unique. It does more damage than Leap AND make Smash an auto-crit. It wouldn't change anything for Rage and allow the 2 others spec (especially Anni) to stick better to their target.

 

you don't give Anni a 4 sec CC-immunity. you put it in the carnage spec. possibly instead of that useless 2% dmg reduction which has yet to this day matter when i take a 9k hit from an assassin in the bumhole. if not 4 sec CC-immunity, i'd take the 20% dmg reduction ANY day of the week. maybe not all cc, but it would be nice to have knock-back immunity with it for any spec.

 

On the point of execute, i can't tell you how many times i've had a ridiculously long dry spell on execute/OA.

On the point of slaughter, I'm tired of that **** proccing when i haven't even used gore yet, but not proccing for an entire fight after i have used gore. and this happens A LOT. if you're gonna give us an RNG fest, make it a little more friendly.

 

For Undying rage.. well I almost exclusively pvp, and that CD is almost useless. Why do juggs/guardians get a "heal me to full please" defensive CD while ours cuts our health in half. AFTER the effect at that. I've opened up a gore/ravage combo on a guardian and my ravage took him from 15% health to 80%. ON A GORE WINDOW.

*Forrest Gump voice* "And that's all I have to say about thayt"

[Tziila]

Are you mad??? Anni use Leap every 12 sec. Getting 4s CC-immune every 12 sec.. Talk about OPness -.-

And no.. Being able to leap through root wouldn't make Obliterate less unique. It does more damage than Leap AND make Smash an auto-crit. It wouldn't change anything for Rage and allow the 2 others spec (especially Anni) to stick better to their target.

 

you don't give Anni a 4 sec CC-immunity. you put it in the carnage spec. possibly instead of that useless 2% dmg reduction which has yet to this day matter when i take a 9k hit from an assassin in the bumhole. if not 4 sec CC-immunity, i'd take the 20% dmg reduction ANY day of the week. maybe not all cc, but it would be nice to have knock-back immunity with it for any spec.

 

On the point of execute, i can't tell you how many times i've had a ridiculously long dry spell on execute/OA.

On the point of slaughter, I'm tired of that **** proccing when i haven't even used gore yet, but not proccing for an entire fight after i have used gore. and this happens A LOT. if you're gonna give us an RNG fest, make it a little more friendly.

 

For Undying rage.. well I almost exclusively pvp, and that CD is almost useless. Why do juggs/guardians get a "heal me to full please" defensive CD while ours cuts our health in half. AFTER the effect at that. I've opened up a gore/ravage combo on a guardian and my ravage took him from 15% health to 80%. ON A GORE WINDOW.

*Forrest Gump voice* "And that's all I have to say about thayt"

[venomlash]

1 and 5 are basically:

"Here, these are the ways skilled players have to counter us in PvP. Let's take away those counters so we're unstoppable!"

 

It's like the smashmonkey I saw in here a while ago who wanted Zealous Leap/Obliterate to have a 30m range because it was too hard for him to close in on Slingers/Snipers otherwise. WELL MAYBE THAT'S HOW THE ROCK-PAPER-SCISSORS MECHANICS WORK, hmm?

[Ryuku-sama]

1 and 5 are basically:

"Here, these are the ways skilled players have to counter us in PvP. Let's take away those counters so we're unstoppable!"

 

It's like the smashmonkey I saw in here a while ago who wanted Zealous Leap/Obliterate to have a 30m range because it was too hard for him to close in on Slingers/Snipers otherwise. WELL MAYBE THAT'S HOW THE ROCK-PAPER-SCISSORS MECHANICS WORK, hmm?

 

Ok.... I see your point.. You're so bad you can't deal with a slightly buffed Mara.

 

#1 would just change the root fest to a stun fest... nothing more. Every Mara's specs need high uptime on target to do damage. Sure they can wreck anything pretty quick once on target but they still need to be there. Right now Mara can be trivialized. Leap have 15s CD. So what if the mara can leap?? He is still rooted. you eat 1.5 GCD og damage if you don't want to break leap root, then just get the hell away. It would simply gives Mara a chance t keep on target in the CC fest. I don't ask for Unremmiting (sp?). I just want to be able to leap while rooted. Currently Rage can do it with Obliterate. And they have the easiest time to stay on target.

 

#2 Just a RNG reductionin Anni. It has nothing to do with skill and all to do with luck. STFO

 

#3 Same here. So STFO

 

#4 You can talk with Vigi 10sec H2F. I simply ask for CoP to last 10 sec baseline. So a simple mezz don't trivialize a relatively good DCD on a completely squishy class.

 

#5 Seriously?? I'm just trying to make UR working better while gutting the H2F while invincible effect. And making Anni survivability working through that.

 

So read better next time.. And think...

 

you don't give Anni a 4 sec CC-immunity. you put it in the carnage spec. possibly instead of that useless 2% dmg reduction which has yet to this day matter when i take a 9k hit from an assassin in the bumhole. if not 4 sec CC-immunity, i'd take the 20% dmg reduction ANY day of the week. maybe not all cc, but it would be nice to have knock-back immunity with it for any spec.

 

Frenzied Sabers is,at 3 stacks, 6% DR AND 6? def chance. So with perma Predation (which Carnage should use instead of their lame Zen) it means 21% def for a non tank class... Not so bad for a defensive 2 skill points skill. And getting a KB immunity or a stun immunity would really make us OP. Roots and slows trivialized, KB become a good threat if Leap is on CD. Stuns MUST stay a threat for us. I don't want an OP class.

[chillshock]

My Ideas on the mara were (or are currently along the lines of):

[Phantom Menace] Getting hit while slowed or rooted reduces the cooldown of force-camo by 1.5/3 seconds. Force Camo breaks movement impairing effects. - replaces Blood Ward.

and

[Kolto Injection (passive)] Marauders can use Stims and Adrenals while stunned.

and one more Idea:

[I find your lack of faith disturbing (passive)] Knockbacks increase the Range of Force Choke by 10m and causes this force-choke to break Cover Effects.

 

So something to do while rooted (for rage/focus it is actually a choice of what to do, then)

Something to try while stunned. (a chance to survive, not a freebee)

And something that makes the mara more elusive in the cc-fest when getting kited to hell an back.

Edited August 4, 2014 by chillshock

[Ryuku-sama]

[Phantom Menace] Getting hit while slowed or rooted reduces the cooldown of force-camo by 1.5/3 seconds. Force Camo breaks movement impairing effects. - replaces Blood Ward.

 

Ok.. Seem pretty ineffective. Normally if you're getting rooted or slowed either your opponent is fleeing which make this whole skill unuseful if you don't have Force Camo off CD. Leap is on a shorter CD and more useful in this situation. If you're getting hit. Well either you're stunned, getting killed by a mara/jugg or a ranged. If it's a ranged, you're dead before Force Camo come off CD. If it's a Mara/Jugg UR is more useful here. If you're stunned... well your skill doesn't help there.. My counter for root is more simple. Leap to them and burn them while poping DCDs Most rDPS don't have enough DCD to survive a Mara hitting them. They have to run. And if you'rein a situation you wanna run away, Force Camo normally don't help much. You're now 50-60m away waiting to get out of combat to finally regen... Or this DoT just killed you

 

[Kolto Injection (passive)] Marauders can use Stims and Adrenals while stunned.

 

Hell no. Nowhere in this game there is a skill that make consummables easier to use. Nowhere. Adding that would make balance even harder. What if you don't have Adrenal?? And between if you don't use your Stim while spawning you're an idiot. You probably meant Medpack.

 

[I find your lack of faith disturbing (passive)] Knockbacks increase the Range of Force Choke by 10m and causes this force-choke to break Cover Effects.

 

How is that supposed to be elusive??? Force Choke already break Cover. It doesn't break CC-immunity from Entranch/Hunker Down tho. So in fact you want Sniper/Slinger to be free kills. Firstly, Sniper/Slinger ARE COUNTER TO MARA and Jugg. And I don't see how a 20m Force Choke would help if you can simply Leap back and Choke.

[chillshock]

Ok.. Seem pretty ineffective. Normally if you're getting rooted or slowed either your opponent is fleeing which make this whole skill unuseful if you don't have Force Camo off CD. Leap is on a shorter CD and more useful in this situation. If you're getting hit. Well either you're stunned, getting killed by a mara/jugg or a ranged. If it's a ranged, you're dead before Force Camo come off CD. If it's a Mara/Jugg UR is more useful here. If you're stunned... well your skill doesn't help there.. My counter for root is more simple. Leap to them and burn them while poping DCDs Most rDPS don't have enough DCD to survive a Mara hitting them. They have to run. And if you'rein a situation you wanna run away, Force Camo normally don't help much. You're now 50-60m away waiting to get out of combat to finally regen... Or this DoT just killed you

It's not supposed to be the all-out-all-the-time. But if you get hit a lot AND are rooted, see that cooldown vanish. You MIGHT get away, you are not spupposed to be guaranteed to.

 

Hell no. Nowhere in this game there is a skill that make consummables easier to use. Nowhere. Adding that would make balance even harder. What if you don't have Adrenal?? And between if you don't use your Stim while spawning you're an idiot. You probably meant Medpack.

Yeah. Medpack. And yes, it doesn't exist yet - thats why I picked the idea: It's not the copycat of any other dcd AND it's highly situational with a tough requirement: you need to have the items.

 

How is that supposed to be elusive??? Force Choke already break Cover. It doesn't break CC-immunity from Entranch/Hunker Down tho. So in fact you want Sniper/Slinger to be free kills. Firstly, Sniper/Slinger ARE COUNTER TO MARA and Jugg. And I don't see how a 20m Force Choke would help if you can simply Leap back and Choke.

That is not elusive, you are right. It's just a "knockback -> dead" counter that might or might not be off cooldown.

And there isn't such a thing as "ARE COUNTER". There are just classes that are harder or easier than others. And right now you'll have to be the dumbest sniper alive to even break a sweat to kill a mara: that is NOT how it's supposed to be. Also: I want to see you leap back at the sniper. I'll even give you free charge cooldowns.

 

But even THINKING that the concept is "Counter-classes" ... *sigh* Balancing isn't easy when it comes to "cant get in range, cant get him out of range". Thats why I suggested the choke: it would most likely not kill the sniper. But it MIGHT buy time for cooldowns and/or help or even a root to wear off. Somthing that makes the mara not sitting there for x seconds without being able to do anything (ok. except dual saber throw).

 

As above: I tried to be as non-juggernaut - non-canon as possible while remaining sith-warriorish.