we pay you 50 million to take our guild ship from us :) wait you want more :(

[Tsillah]

You do crew skill missions WHILE doing flashpoints. At the end of the flashpoint, sell everything that's not bound on the GTN. Even if you list at the GTN's suggested price, you'll make as many credits as a daily.

 

Not if you stop selling them because people are crafting themselves and I do hope that you've taken into account the cost of the crafting missions as well in that calculation.

 

Honestly, just posting it on the gtn won't sell them especially if lots of people get on board with this. People will have to sell them at prices below the suggested price to be able to sell them. I didn't think this was rocket science.

 

That's why I don't see crafting as a reliable source of income. Again it works only if most people don't craft themselves, because not only will they flood the market but they'll also stop buying crafted stuff as they make the stuff themselves now.

 

We see how quickly the prices can drop with the CM items. Items that are supposedly rare according to the gold CM symbol go for prices like 500 credits sometimes. The same would happen to crafting if too many people got on board of this.

 

So really, if you are a crafter and make credits with it, you're an idiot for promoting the destruction of your own business.

[Przemo_No]

I am going to give you some tips. Your poor not in spite of having 18 characters your poor because you have 18 characters. The most expensive part of this game in terms of percentage impact on your wealth is setting up a character and getting them to 55.

Well, considering that 6 of them are geared in 180/168 PVE gear, not sure if that is the reason. I do have other characters because i basically wanted to see the "other side" of the story or play it with male/female version.

 

 

(1) It shows. Multiple guilds! Never been in or heard of a guild that would put up with that. Guess they don't know about each other or are not that attached to you.

Originally I was in 1 guild. That became inactive. with the 2nd - the same situation - 3rd and 4th are much more active, but the OPs times are not reachable for me (work).

(2) Crafting is no story. But it equips your character, your companions and makes you money.

(3) Repeating dailies means money and better equipment for your characters. It is also fun to get better at something.

I agree with dailies, with crafting not really. It is not an instant win. That also has the RE RNG. Costs time. And money too.

(4) Playing the GTM is not work of any type. Getting rid of something you don't want and getting something you do is playing the game by improving you character.

I do that, if i have some spare time (minutes really)

(5) Gathering mats is not boring if your using them to craft or sell.

Not really sure, because the mats are not laying down the path you are following with your quest. With your adventure. You need to datour and, for most of the time, wait.

(6) You can earn top gear from operations or events but I doubt you take part in many. Or you would understand that practically everything that drops in them is bound to your character and no rich guy can buy it.

 

6 of my 55ves have completed every operation. Some multiple times and HM, some only on SM.

(7) Not sure what this thing is about white collars or what they don't understand about real life. But no economy is a but silly to say.

 

That's what you get when you watch "Wolf of Wall Street" and then read the forums:)

I don't want to insult you but from your points I am forming an impression of how SWTOR is for you and it is not a great one.

You do not insult me. I actually LOVE this game. For this game I thrown away all the Assassin's Creeds, Skyrim, Mass Effect (did not even finish the 3rd part) , Diablo and what have you that appreared in the meantime.

 

My experience in FPs and OPs is very good. Just basically because I mostly play THAT content, not bothering with gathering, grafting, selling, etc. Ahh btw i also do play PVP. Not hardcore but as a filler when I need some XP points.

 

It has the drawback, though. If you go for adventures you do not have time for gathering and GTN

Provided that I have max 2 hrs per day to play, what do you think I choose?

 

In other words, i concentrate on the "active" part of the game.

 

Thus - no real creadits. I mean i am not "broken" each of my 55 has some millions, but this is far away from 50.

 

Hope this clarifies things.

[Khevar]

That's why I don't see crafting as a reliable source of income.

NOTE: For what it's worth, I completely understand the points you've made about the flagship being overpriced. I don't have a problem with your statements about that. So don't misunderstand the criticism I'm about to give.

 

I use crafting as a reliable source of income. I know others that use crafting as a reliable source of income. I've spent time posting in the Crew Skills forum giving advice on how to use crafting as a reliable source of income.

 

Now, I could understand someone who says, "I don't want to do crafting because it's not fun for me". This makes sense.

 

But someone who tries to argue that crafting isn't viable? I am truly flummoxed by this view. The viability of crafting has allowed me to afford pretty much anything I've wanted in this game without having to run dailies (which I really really don't like to do).

 

Are you confused about how to do crafting? Do you just not like doing it? Or are you trying to use a bad premise about crafting to forward your arguments about expensive guild flagships?

Edited August 17, 2014 by Khevar

[Tsillah]

NOTE: For what it's worth, I completely understand the points you've made about the flagship being overpriced. I don't have a problem with you saying this. So don't misunderstand the criticism I'm about to give.

 

I use crafting as a reliable source of income. I know others that use crafting as a reliable source of income. I've spent time posting in the Crew Skills forum giving other people advice on how to use crafting as a reliable source of income.

 

Now, I could understand someone who says, "I don't want to do crafting because it's not fun for me". This makes sense.

 

But someone who tries to argue that crafting isn't viable? I am truly flummoxed by this view. The viability of crafting has allowed me to afford pretty much anything I've wanted in this game without having to run dailies (which I really really don't like to do).

 

Are you confused about how to do crafting? Do you just not like doing it? Or are you trying to use a bad premise about crafting to forward your arguments about expensive guild flagships?

 

Sorry to ruin your entire post, but I never said that flagships were overpriced. I just argued that BW should look into more ways for people to make credits like making FP's more rewarding credit wise so we don't have to do dailies all the time.

 

Also I never said crafting isn't viable. It is, but it won't be if everybody started crafting. My definition of reliable sources of income are the ones that don't require sales to other players. You can go nuts on them with out the credit gains dropping. We all can. But if we all go nuts on crafting it won't be viable anymore, that's why I don't see the point in encouraging everybody to go crafting, because there is a point where it won't work anymore.

[Khevar]

Sorry to ruin your entire post, but I never said that flagships were overpriced. I just argued that BW should look into more ways for people to make credits like making FP's more rewarding credit wise so we don't have to do dailies all the time.

Forgive me, I misspoke. You have stated that it is a lot of credits, not that it is overpriced.

Also I never said crafting isn't viable. It is, but it won't be if everybody started crafting. My definition of reliable sources of income are the ones that don't require sales to other players. You can go nuts on them with out the credit gains dropping. We all can.

That's a pretty harsh definition of "reliable".

 

Here's mine: "consistently good in quality or performance; able to be trusted". I have, in almost 3 years of play time, consistently made money doing crafting. That's pretty reliable.

But if we all go nuts on crafting it won't be viable anymore, that's why I don't see the point in encouraging everybody to go crafting, because there is a point where it won't work anymore.

I get what you're saying, but this hasn't happened to date. It really hasn't. Even in the most contested markets.

 

I suppose that in your purely theoretical universe whereby every single player of the game decided to get industrious and do lots of crafting in every single facet of the market, it might become unviable. We are FAR from that reality.

 

There are people that went to the Crew Skills forum (myself included) and laid out DETAILED and EXACT ways to make big bucks. And that affected the market exactly diddly / squat.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Khevar

[paspinall]

You do crew skill missions WHILE doing flashpoints. At the end of the flashpoint, sell everything that's not bound on the GTN. Even if you list at the GTN's suggested price, you'll make as many credits as a daily.

 

except many things are selling for far less than the GTN suggested price, the prices on the GTN are SO low right now.

[nkarabats]

i am in 3 guilds. 1 imp 2 pub. the imp and one pub are pvp guilds and we have been running dailies and 50s ops to get the money and mats. both these guilds will have the guildships. because we as a guild worked for it...thats how it should be.

 

the 3rd guild is a family guild..most of us have been together through launch. As a guild we dont have the funds for a ship...however we still will have it because as a family we are all chipping in to get it.

 

 

are the ships costly yes....but it was designed for those fly by night guilds not to have one. what we are going to get are the more serious (hopefully) guilds and players that get the ships.

[branmakmuffin]

except many things are selling for far less than the GTN suggested price, the prices on the GTN are SO low right now.

As long the prices are more than vendor value+GTN cut, so what?

[Tsillah]

Forgive me, I misspoke. You have stated that it is a lot of credits, not that it is overpriced.

 

Indeed and that is a significant difference

 

That's a pretty harsh definition of "reliable".

 

It's rigid but clear.

 

Here's mine: "consistently good in quality or performance; able to be trusted". I have, in almost 3 years of play time, consistently made money doing crafting. That's pretty reliable.

 

Yep and that's fine. I've made some money off it too but I lack the patience to do it consistently. Sadly I can't buy patience with CC or credits. This is the thing about people being different.

 

I get what you're saying, but this hasn't happened to date. It really hasn't. Even in the most contested markets.

 

I agree. I merely wanted to point out it's not a solution for everyone and that's why we need more alternatives.

 

I suppose that in your purely theoretical universe whereby every single player of the game decided to get industrious and do lots of crafting in every single facet of the market, it might become unviable. We are FAR from that reality.

 

We are far from that, but maybe not quite as far as you describe it. Still, I don't expect it to happen either but as I said that does mean it's not viable for everyone. Dailies are.

 

There are people that went to the Crew Skills forum (myself included) and laid out DETAILED and EXACT ways to make big bucks. And that affected the market exactly diddly / squat.

 

Well, kind as it is of you, there are two comments I'd like to make about that.

 

1) The vast majority of players don't read these forums and even less read the crew skill forums.

2) Not everybody likes crafting.

 

So again, my only request to BW is for more options to make credits. If I play 4-6 hours a day I could fill them completely with dailies. If I have 4 toons I can do them all day. So why not reward other things equally so we are not condemned to dailies and crafting (reliable or not).

 

As I stated, the problem is not that there aren't enough credits to be made, the problem is with the how. A lot of people don't like dailies and apparently a lot don't really get into crafting much, especially beyond just making some stuff for themselves. So give people more options to make credits with the things they do enjoy. Is that such a strange request?

[branmakmuffin]

Yep and that's fine. I've made some money off it too but I lack the patience to do it consistently. Sadly I can't buy patience with CC or credits.

Being impatient is your choice.

 

If you don't have the patience to craft or do dailies, what would you suggest as an option to get creds? A button on your ship that gives you 100k every time you press it because you pinky swear you're impatient?

[Tsillah]

Being impatient is your choice.

 

No it's not a choice but that's obviously pointless to try and explain to you.

 

If you don't have the patience to craft or do dailies, what would you suggest as an option to get creds? A button on your ship that gives you 100k every time you press it because you pinky swear you're impatient?

 

Don't make such dumb comments. I already made the suggestion that 55 FP's should drop more credits for example to make the more interesting to do at the same time. We all know that the gear that drops there is crap so might as well get rid of that and drop credits for all players instead. The amount will have to be made to be in sync with the time it takes to get that amount while doing dailies.

 

So don't come here and misread my comments and make false accusations and start acting like I want things for free. I said alternatives to make money because dailies get boring, not a button to give me credits. Honestly, you're being a total douche here. If you like dailies that's fine, but I won't even say that's your choice. People are built differently, they like different things and have different thresholds. I am patient with a lot of things but not mind numbing repetition. So my brain wants more variation. Make of that what you want but I don't think there is a problem with having more ways of making credits. In the end you can already spend all day doing dailies and crafting so why not let us do something else instead to make credits as well?

[LuciferKirkorian]

Yawn. Same tripe different day. What part of everyone doesn't play the game the same way don't people get? People play games to have fun. If yours is making credits more power to you. To me it is about class quest. If they had made it required to get a GS by having complete all class quest including all advance there would be the same response. From those that it isn't their style of play. Not everyone enjoys every style of play.

 

Well, then it sounds like perhaps having a guild ship isn't for you then.

 

Not if you stop selling them because people are crafting themselves and I do hope that you've taken into account the cost of the crafting missions as well in that calculation.

 

Honestly, just posting it on the gtn won't sell them especially if lots of people get on board with this. People will have to sell them at prices below the suggested price to be able to sell them. I didn't think this was rocket science.

 

That's why I don't see crafting as a reliable source of income. Again it works only if most people don't craft themselves, because not only will they flood the market but they'll also stop buying crafted stuff as they make the stuff themselves now.

 

We see how quickly the prices can drop with the CM items. Items that are supposedly rare according to the gold CM symbol go for prices like 500 credits sometimes. The same would happen to crafting if too many people got on board of this.

 

So really, if you are a crafter and make credits with it, you're an idiot for promoting the destruction of your own business.

 

LOOOOOOLLLLLLL

 

You know what? Maybe you're right, in a way. Why share my secrets with people who do nothing but whine about how much things cost? I'll stick to sharing my secrets with nice people that aren't so entitled. Next time you roll a character I'm SURE you'll be giving me plenty of credits as you upgrade.

 

...and I'm the idiot

[Revy]

So don't come here and misread my comments and make false accusations and start acting like I want things for free. I said alternatives to make money because dailies get boring, not a button to give me credits. Honestly, you're being a total douche here. If you like dailies that's fine, but I won't even say that's your choice. People are built differently, they like different things and have different thresholds. I am patient with a lot of things but not mind numbing repetition. So my brain wants more variation. Make of that what you want but I don't think there is a problem with having more ways of making credits. In the end you can already spend all day doing dailies and crafting so why not let us do something else instead to make credits as well?

 

More Importantly out of the Paragraph.

I am patient with a lot of things but not mind numbing repetition.

 

Repetition is what MMOs are. Doing the same thing, whether is dailies, raids, flashpoints(dungeons), and\or crafting. Player housing and guild ships are just one more cog in the endless grind of a MMO.

[well]

Well, then it sounds like perhaps having a guild ship isn't for you then.

 

 

 

LOOOOOOLLLLLLL

 

You know what? Maybe you're right, in a way. Why share my secrets with people who do nothing but whine about how much things cost? I'll stick to sharing my secrets with nice people that aren't so entitled. Next time you roll a character I'm SURE you'll be giving me plenty of credits as you upgrade.

 

...and I'm the idiot

 

Considering I don't want one that works out. It is about small guilds that aren't loaded with Merchant Princesses. You know those folks that are playing the game not the just the GTN. Wait sorry you probably don't know those type of folks. The ones that are working on their first 55 or trying to get their crafting up to par. I better stop. Some people can't see beyond their own nose. So go back to whining about other people whining. Doesn't take much thought to do that.

[ivanhedgehog]

Considering I don't want one that works out. It is about small guilds that aren't loaded with Merchant Princesses. You know those folks that are playing the game not the just the GTN. Wait sorry you probably don't know those type of folks. The ones that are working on their first 55 or trying to get their crafting up to par. I better stop. Some people can't see beyond their own nose. So go back to whining about other people whining. Doesn't take much thought to do that.

 

you forgot the ones that werent in a guild that say "that drop is for frank, he will RE the mod and make it for the guild" he makes a few for the guild and a killing for himself. none of the other cybercrafters on those runs get that kind of preference for themselves. and heaven help you if you arent in a raiding guild. none of the saleable items will be dropping for you.

[well]

you forgot the ones that werent in a guild that say "that drop is for frank, he will RE the mod and make it for the guild" he makes a few for the guild and a killing for himself. none of the other cybercrafters on those runs get that kind of preference for themselves. and heaven help you if you arent in a raiding guild. none of the saleable items will be dropping for you.

 

I don't do raids but I can believe it.

[LuciferKirkorian]

Cry me an ocean.

[OmenQ]

Not if you stop selling them because people are crafting themselves and I do hope that you've taken into account the cost of the crafting missions as well in that calculation.

 

Honestly, just posting it on the gtn won't sell them especially if lots of people get on board with this. People will have to sell them at prices below the suggested price to be able to sell them. I didn't think this was rocket science.

 

That's why I don't see crafting as a reliable source of income. Again it works only if most people don't craft themselves, because not only will they flood the market but they'll also stop buying crafted stuff as they make the stuff themselves now.

 

We see how quickly the prices can drop with the CM items. Items that are supposedly rare according to the gold CM symbol go for prices like 500 credits sometimes. The same would happen to crafting if too many people got on board of this.

 

So really, if you are a crafter and make credits with it, you're an idiot for promoting the destruction of your own business.

 

Those people will still need the materials that you're selling from your crew skill missions. And every time there's a double XP weekend, I literally cannot craft stuff fast enough to keep up with the demand.

[OmenQ]

Not really sure, because the mats are not laying down the path you are following with your quest. With your adventure. You need to datour and, for most of the time, wait.

 

...

 

Thus - no real creadits. I mean i am not "broken" each of my 55 has some millions, but this is far away from 50.

 

Hope this clarifies things.

 

Except with Scavenging and Bioanalysis, the materials ARE in fact lying down the path you are following. You kill a strong or better mob, and you get materials. I'm tripping over materials everywhere I go.

 

...

 

Good thing guild ships are for, you know, a GUILD to contribute to, and not just single players.

[Lord_of_Mu]

you forgot the ones that werent in a guild that say "that drop is for frank, he will RE the mod and make it for the guild" he makes a few for the guild and a killing for himself. none of the other cybercrafters on those runs get that kind of preference for themselves. and heaven help you if you arent in a raiding guild. none of the saleable items will be dropping for you.

 

I doubt Frank in your example is currently making many sales right now. In fact I'm quite sure that anyone with the ability to perform rank 2 or higher crew skills would have a better selling position than dear Frank.

 

But to understand the current movements of the market. Well that would require spending a few minutes to look on the GTN or think about what people want right now. What are the big money makers right now and what will be in the coming months. You don't even have to look at the GTN to figure that out.

[OmenQ]

except many things are selling for far less than the GTN suggested price, the prices on the GTN are SO low right now.

 

Show me.

 

Oh wait, you can't, because everything I've listed at or above the GTN suggested price on Ebon Hawk has sold. Mods, Armorings, Armor pieces, weapons, companion gifts, materials... You name it. It doesn't always sell within a day or two, but it costs nothing to relist since you get your GTN deposit back when a listing expires. Eventually, someone needs that set of bracers that you got from Oricon, and will buy it.

[LuciferKirkorian]

Arguing in this thread is like doing Crossfit. It results in a lot of pain that could have easily been avoided, and absolutely nothing is gained.

[OmenQ]

Oh damn, you're right. I don't want to do Crossfit! Get me out of here!

[ivanhedgehog]

I doubt Frank in your example is currently making many sales right now. In fact I'm quite sure that anyone with the ability to perform rank 2 or higher crew skills would have a better selling position than dear Frank.

 

But to understand the current movements of the market. Well that would require spending a few minutes to look on the GTN or think about what people want right now. What are the big money makers right now and what will be in the coming months. You don't even have to look at the GTN to figure that out.

 

relics are selling left and right..and you can only learn them from hm drops.

[Lord_of_Mu]

relics are selling left and right..and you can only learn them from hm drops.

 

The price of the mats used to make those relics have also dropped. If the price of the relics haven't changed, that's great! Higher profit margins but if your selling price is also down due to the material cost reduction then you can actually make comparable money with easier to obtain items.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Lord_of_Mu