What you BoP people should be asking for is....

[Kirazy]

Yes, It gets to a point where even SA's get used by tanks in my guild and we do fine.

 

SA is BIS on a Tank? Fascinating.

[Reno_Tarshil]

SA is BIS on a Tank? Fascinating.

 

Shure if you're good enough at the game.

[Ratajack]

Would you consider purple shells? Since they have mod slots in them as well.

 

I personally would prefer to see it remain orange shells for two reasons.

 

The first reason is that you cannot purchase any purple legacy gear now. All legacy gear is an empty orange shell when acquired and allowing only empty orange shells to be converted would maintain this quality.

 

The second reason is that even a purple earpiece would have a mod slot once an augment kit was added. How much coding would be required to differentiate between a purple earpiece with an augment slot and a purple chest piece with mod, armoring and enhancement slots? I think it would be far easier to limit conversion to only empty orange shells.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I personally would prefer to see it remain orange shells for two reasons.

 

The first reason is that you cannot purchase any purple legacy gear now. All legacy gear is an empty orange shell when acquired and allowing only empty orange shells to be converted would maintain this quality.

 

The second reason is that even a purple earpiece would have a mod slot once an augment kit was added. How much coding would be required to differentiate between a purple earpiece with an augment slot and a purple chest piece with mod, armoring and enhancement slots? I think it would be far easier to limit conversion to only empty orange shells.

 

I advocate for purple shells of armor not referring to ears or implants but also because there are several good looks on Purple shelled items.

[Docmal]

The proponents of eliminating BoP via Legacy Storage are convinced that the way they see and play the game are the way everyone sees and plays the game.

1. They assume that no one cares about the Reputation System and it's rewards because they don't.
   
2. They assume that no one cares about the collection system because they don't.
   
3. They assume that the credit sink associated with moving mods is inconsequential because they don't notice it.
   
4. They assume that no one cares about the limits placed on quickly gearing alts by limiting that to current legacy gear slots.
   

 

These assumptions are all flawed. I myself disagree with every single one of them and I am certainly not some casual player.

 

Without gear gating, the reputation system, the collection systems and credit sinks this game would have significantly less content.

 

The same argument manifests itself in so many ways, and it comes down to this simple fact: If you take away the effort required to obtain something it becomes worthless. Let me say this another way:

 

If you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.

[Ratajack]

I advocate for purple shells of armor not referring to ears or implants but also because there are several good looks on Purple shelled items.

 

I appreciate the appearance some purple shells offer, but again I ask, how much more difficult would the coding be to distinguish between a chest piece and an augmented earpiece since they would both have mod slots?

 

Let's not forget what happens when you give a mouse cookie. How long do you think it would be before we heard the first cries that "we can already convert some purples to legacy gear. Let us convert all purples to legacy gear."?

 

We can see from the past two or three days what happens when BW gives the mice a cookie. It would seem that they don't just ask for a glass of milk. They are apparently offended that BW didn't just give them the glass of milk that they feel they deserve, or they complain that the cookie isn't the right flavor.

[Anaesha]

The proponents of eliminating BoP via Legacy Storage are convinced that the way they see and play the game are the way everyone sees and plays the game.

1. They assume that no one cares about the Reputation System and it's rewards because they don't.
   
2. They assume that no one cares about the collection system because they don't.
   
3. They assume that the credit sink associated with moving mods is inconsequential because they don't notice it.
   
4. They assume that no one cares about the limits placed on quickly gearing alts by limiting that to current legacy gear slots.
   

 

These assumptions are all flawed. I myself disagree with every single one of them and I am certainly not some casual player.

 

Without gear gating, the reputation system, the collection systems and credit sinks this game would have significantly less content.

 

The same argument manifests itself in so many ways, and it comes down to this simple fact: If you take away the effort required to obtain something it becomes worthless. Let me say this another way:

 

If you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.

 

Funny how you say we are assuming all that when in fact you yourself are making an assumption with that very post.

 

You don't know me or how I play the game or what I do or don't care about therefore you have nothing to base such an assumption on.

[Khevar]

Here is where you are confused:

 

The only use case where, if relics and the like are BOL, you would see a reduction in demand is with mirror classes. Any player who has another character that is not the same class and spec would still need to acquire a set of relics, etc.

I didn't say "won't have run operations again"

 

I said, "run operations fewer times"

 

Relics in particular apply to multiple classes, not having main stats on them, with dps / healers sharing the same ones in almost every case.

 

Ninja Edit:

Let me be perfectly clear. I have extra earpieces, implants and relics across a number of toons. The relics in particular bug me as companions cannot use them, so I've got a bunch sitting around that will never be used again. If BoP were removed and I could move these around, I'd would definitely use it. It's not like I cannot see the value of such a change.

 

But at the same time, I see these restrictions as existing for a reason. Lets go back to the 1.5-1.7 time period I brought up earlier. When 2.0 dropped and the gear ceiling was raised to 168, why were those not craftable? The previous BiS (150) was. Why was it changed so that RE'ing operations gear would NOT return MMGs? The previous ops gear would return molecs on RE.

 

It was changed to SLOW DOWN GEAR PROGRESSION and encourage more players to run end-game operations to get gear. Someone on the dev team thought that players were gearing up too quickly without running ops. So this change was made. And voila! more operations groups formed.

 

BW has decided to leave the BoP restrictions in place for now. It isn't a stretch to think it is for a similar reason. From where I sit, this would be a logical reason. You obviously disagree, which is your prerogative.

 

But I don't believe I'm reaching when I say that removing BoP restrictions on Implants, Earpieces and Relics would reduce the number of people running ops.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Khevar

[SteelPiranha]

Paying for the things you want is part of life. Get used to it.

 

[Edit: paying for things you DON'T want is part of life too, BTW. ]

 

I should have clarified. I don't want to have this type of coin that OP is suggesting go into a CM type format. If it's offered in game for in game currency, i.e., comms, credits, tokens...I'm 100% fine with that. I have a problem with things that can only be obtained through CC's. That's all I was getting at.

[Kirazy]

I didn't say "won't have run operations again"

 

I said, "run operations fewer times"

 

Relics in particular apply to multiple classes, not having main stats on them, and dps / healers can share the same ones in almost every case.

 

Let me share an example of how I would use a LS that permitted Bound items to be shared.

 

First, I would acquire a single set of gear for my Scoundrel healer. Because I adore the Scoundrel Healer/Operative so much, to the degree I have like 8 in various stages of completion, I would build one set of everything and optimize it. I would then share this set between them... to run operations.

 

Even though the set is complete. Then, that one set complete, running operations and earning gear on all of those characters, because I don't have to gear them up individually, I am now running quite a few operations per week instead of the only one or two I would otherwise be able to do.

 

And with those runs I would, progressively, create individual sets for each, because it really is easier, down the road, to have a bunch of sets. But the acquisition of those sets is made easier for having a single set, in the beginning, that is sharable among many.

 

What this has resulted in is I am running more operations per week than I would otherwise, to earn the same amount of gear I would already be earning. Just faster. But I have not, nor will ever, complain that there is not enough end game content. I am entirely content with the amount of end game content this game has.

[Khevar]

What this has resulted in is I am running more operations per week than I would otherwise, to earn the same amount of gear I would already be earning. Just faster. But I have not, nor will ever, complain that there is not enough end game content. I am entirely content with the amount of end game content this game has.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that you would run more operations because your full set of BiS gear could be mailed to every alt?

 

If these 8 operatives were NOT geared up, you wouldn't be running as many operations?

 

Why not?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Khevar

[Ratajack]

Let me share an example of how I would use a LS that permitted Bound items to be shared.

 

First, I would acquire a single set of gear for my Scoundrel healer. Because I adore the Scoundrel Healer/Operative so much, to the degree I have like 8 in various stages of completion, I would build one set of everything and optimize it. I would then share this set between them... to run operations.

 

Even though the set is complete. Then, that one set complete, running operations and earning gear on all of those characters, because I don't have to gear them up individually, I am now running quite a few operations per week instead of the only one or two I would otherwise be able to do.

 

And with those runs I would, progressively, create individual sets for each, because it really is easier, down the road, to have a bunch of sets. But the acquisition of those sets is made easier for having a single set, in the beginning, that is sharable among many.

 

What this has resulted in is I am running more operations per week than I would otherwise, to earn the same amount of gear I would already be earning. Just faster. But I have not, nor will ever, complain that there is not enough end game content. I am entirely content with the amount of end game content this game has.

 

This is highly illogical.

 

First, you claim that you would run more OPS every week if you could "share" one set of armor. Then you claim that if you cannot "share' one set of armor, that you can only run one or two OPS per week.

 

 

Finally, you claim that since you cannot "share" one set of armor, that the result is that you are running MORE OPS than you would otherwise.

 

My first question would be: how are you running more OPS than you would otherwise if the inability to "share" one set of gear would limit you to only one or two OPS?

 

You make it seem that you would run OPS with all of your alts if you could "share" a single set of gear, but complain that you "have" to run those OPS with all of your alts to gear those alts up because you can't "share" a single set of gear. Judging from your post, it seems that the only real difference that "sharing" a single set of gear would make is that you would be able to faceroll those other raids you run with those alts.

[Kirazy]

TMy first question would be: how are you running more OPS than you would otherwise if the inability to "share" one set of gear would limit you to only one or two OPS?

 

Situation 1, no share:

Several characters at 55. Only one has decent gear. I have no interest in grinding up each character individually to make them ready for HM operations., so I personally won't run ops with the rest of them.

 

Situation 2, share:

Several characters at 55. Only one has decent gear, but he can share this gear with the rest of my characters. Each character is therefore enabled to run HM content, and I run HM content with each one of them throughout the week. I use this to fold their gains into gear that can remain natively on the character.

 

In this way I run more operations in a given period of time than if I could not share.

 

I already do this using extant Legacy gear. The only gain I am interested in from a LS allowing Bound items to be transferred is having a particular Belt, a particular Boot, and a particular Gauntlet which are not BOL, being able to move as though they were. Essentially my only gain is I can have the look I want, while I grind out their gear sets, as opposed to being confined to a very limited pool of existing Legacy sets.

 

Being able to move Relics/Ear pieces/Implants is nice, but I don't give a **** if I can't do that.

[SteelPiranha]

I hate to be that guy, but we're all arguing in circles over a topic we don't have any control over. I'm all for community feedback. It just seems that they have already made the decision and they may decide to change things later.

 

Eric said, "I will say that this issue is something that we will continue to discuss internally and could potentially change in the future."

 

More than likely, BoP will not be allowed in Legacy Storage no matter how many threads and arguments happen. Personally, I'd rather the Devs just focus on meeting their major deadlines now and worry about this type of stuff when the new xpac is out. Luckily, there is a workaround that I'll continue to use until there is another option available.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I hate to be that guy, but we're all arguing in circles over a topic we don't have any control over. I'm all for community feedback. It just seems that they have already made the decision and they may decide to change things later.

 

Eric said, "I will say that this issue is something that we will continue to discuss internally and could potentially change in the future."

 

More than likely, BoP will not be allowed in Legacy Storage no matter how many threads and arguments happen. Personally, I'd rather the Devs just focus on meeting their major deadlines now and worry about this type of stuff when the new xpac is out. Luckily, there is a workaround that I'll continue to use until there is another option available.

 

Lol well the current topic in the thread isn't even the what the topic was in the OP. Which is why I made this thread to offer an alternative, that people may or may not like. But as usual of Gen Forums it devolved into back and forth of another topic altogether from another thread.

[Khevar]

Being able to move Relics/Ear pieces/Implants is nice, but I don't give a **** if I can't do that.

To be honest, this is the only part I'm arguing about.

 

Every other piece of gear can be moved around without cost if you put it in legacy gear, and with a credit cost if you don't like how the legacy gear looks. Either way, it already exists in the game.

 

It's those last five slots that cannot be moved around that I would prefer remain as-is, for reasons stated earlier.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Khevar

[kevinatorz]

Sorry to be the odd man out for this whole conversation, and I am sorry if someone has already made this point, but both sides are wrong in some way on this issue!

 

For the side that wants to make Bind on pickup gear into bind to legacy: Grinding out content is important, because it keeps you invested in the game, it may be a gimmick and a bit artificial content, but it does keep us all busy and for the most part very entertained!

 

Now for the crowed that thinks making bind on pickup gear into bind to legacy will ruin the game because it will eliminate the need to grind out more the one character: We already have this system!!!! My main character is a 55 mercenary and I just finished leveling a 55 commando not too long ago and I will be sharing an armor set for both of them. The only main issue with our current system, that I and I believe the rest of the people who want to see a change happen is that I will not have the luxury or looking exactly the way I want if I do not want to end up spending a butt load of credits!

 

In other words, I cannot use some of the really cool armor sets that come from the cartel market, or the cartel packs because those armor sets are not bind to legacy, and i do not want to spend the butt loads of credit it would take to rip mods out each time i wanted to switch from one character to the next, in order from me to use those really cool armor sets from the cartel market.

 

So i do believe, selling a conversion kit that switches Bind on pickup items to binds to legacy (for a fee) is an excellent idea, so long as it is only able to be used on orange moddable gear. Thank you, that is all.

[BuriDogshin]

Let me share an example of how I would use a LS that permitted Bound items to be shared.

 

First, I would acquire a single set of gear for my Scoundrel healer. Because I adore the Scoundrel Healer/Operative so much, to the degree I have like 8 in various stages of completion, I would build one set of everything and optimize it. I would then share this set between them... to run operations.

 

And with those runs I would, progressively, create individual sets for each, because it really is easier, down the road, to have a bunch of sets. But the acquisition of those sets is made easier for having a single set, in the beginning, that is sharable among many.

How would you get the drops? Not by needing on drops that your current toon, in the BoL gear they are wearing, doesn't actually need, I hope. Or are you happy with just comms gear?

[Khevar]

How would you get the drops? Not by needing on drops that your current toon, in the BoL gear they are wearing, doesn't actually need, I hope. Or are you happy with just comms gear?

In another thread, he mentioned he believed one should be able to Need for an alt:

As it happens, I used to hold your position in regards to need/greed, that you should need for the character you're playing. That changed, when it was argued that the player who needed, though not technically needing the gear themselves for that character, never the less contributed to the operations group, and in fact played a pivotal role in our completing the objectives.

Personally, I would never do this.

 

And I sincerely hope that anyone intending to "Need for an alt" would announce intentions beforehand and make sure everyone in the group was in agreement with it.

[BuriDogshin]

In another thread, he [Kirazy] mentioned he believed one should be able to Need for an alt:

Personally, I would never do this.

Nor I. If I did, I would always need - many of my 55 toons are not fully geared. That would make running with me tough luck for new players trying to gear their first toons. I'd rather not make things necessarily difficult for new players, because we need them.

 

This is what my guildmates taught me. This is what they do. So it is what I do.

[GrandLordMenace]

Honestly, if they made it so that you could turn a piece of gear bind to legacy for a non superficial amount, IE the amount it takes to rip mods, reaugment, and buy the piece from a reputation vendor, that would be awesome. I just want to wear a look that doesn't look like jack ****. Legacy vendor gear looks like **** (The adaptive stuff anyway.)

[Khevar]

Nor I. If I did, I would always need - many of my 55 toons are not fully geared. That would make running with me tough luck for new players trying to gear their first toons. I'd rather not make things necessarily difficult for new players, because we need them.

I agree. It's almost a variation of the Prisoner's Dilemma. As long as everyone cooperates on Need being a direct upgrade for the main toons in the instance, everyone gears up faster.

[Ratajack]

I only want items like Armor plating, mods, enhancements, hilts, and barrels BOL for easier recycling. Endgame armors, weapons, implants, earpieces, and relics I could careless about.

 

I find this ironic, considering your signature.

[Anaesha]

I find this ironic, considering your signature.

 

It's not really that Ironic considering I'm fine with what I have at present I like the game as is and I can live with it staying BoP if they choose not to allow LS transfers even though I would like for it to be changed to BoL.

 

P.s. just because I want something to be changed doesn't automaticaly mean I am not content with it as is.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Anaesha

[MeNaCe-NZ]

78 odd pages in 3 threads ( that I noticed ) on the same topic more or less. Heh GG.

 

If anything these threads surely separate the lazy from those that are happy to work hard for their "loot" ( face rolling content in your over powered geared to need then send to toons is not working hard imo ).