Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 You're weird. Do you imagine people won't run content unless they NEED to? Does anyone, when you get down to real world rationality, actually NEED to run content? Does anyone NEED to play this game? We play because we want to. Ergo, whether or not we have this CONVENIENCE FEATURE, we will play if we want to. Yes, we have been running the same current Ops since October and the Ops before that since 2.0. The less reason people have to run ops the quicker Ops will die. It's not a covenience feature, it's a feature killing feature... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) You're weird. Someone thinks differently ≠ Weird Again, for the lack of a better argument, it doesn't exactly work as well as you may think. Do you imagine people won't run content unless they NEED to? Does anyone, when you get down to real world rationality, actually NEED to run content? Does anyone NEED to play this game? We play because we want to. Ergo, whether or not we have this CONVENIENCE FEATURE, we will play if we want to. If people didn't feel the NEED to have a specific type of item, without WANTING to do a specific piece of content, this thread wouldn't have been created to begin with. Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Wanting everything to be BoL constitutes an "abuse" to me. Simple. I never said they didn't play. Learn to read, please. What I said is that if EVERYTHING is BoL, people will have less of a reason to grind or play for specific items which cannot be traded or swapped around, namely Relics, Implants and Earpieces. Having 9 legacy items, how ordinary and mundane. Having 14 legacy items, that's madness and unacceptable! I think you overemphasize the role that Relics, Implants, and Earpieces plays in the gearing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Having 9 legacy items, how ordinary and mundane. Having 14 legacy items, that's madness and unacceptable! I think you overemphasize the role that Relics, Implants, and Earpieces plays in the gearing process. If they're not as important as you claim, then I'm fairly sure the current system is fine the way it is; No change is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Yes, we have been running the same current Ops since October and the Ops before that since 2.0. The less reason people have to run ops the quicker Ops will die. It's not a covenience feature, it's a feature killing feature... So you speculate. I personally believe that your fears are unfounded. Firstly, most people who are raiding are casual players. Secondly, the groups that are worried about "Ops dying" are the hardcore few who run them so often and so early and then whine that Bioware can't make them fast enough. The people complaining about lack of content are not the casual players. Most players who are doing the content are casual. They'd do them anyways. These are the people who run the classic operations even though they're as old as the game. Because it's fun, and they enjoy it. The group who would behave as you fear, who would optimize themselves perfectly with the fewest sets of gear required, are a tiny, tiny fraction of the raiding population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If they're not as important as you claim, then I'm fairly sure the current system is fine the way it is; No change is necessary. I'm indifferent on whether this gets changed or not. I'm also indifferent on whether relics, implants, or earpieces are changed or not. But obviously that's not the only reason people have asked for this and I'm not sure why you make it sound like it is. It would make what we're currently able to do (i.e., moving gear and mods across characters) easier, and would also open up being able to transfer the shells as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Now I don't like to interrupt a good conversation but could you guys at least answer the OP? I know Darth has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Now I don't like to interrupt a good conversation but could you guys at least answer the OP? I know Darth has. We have been asking for what the OP talks about for longer than the Galactic Strongholds has even been in the public conversation. Considering Legacy has heretofore concerned your entire set of characters on a Server and served to facilitate movement of items that have typically been character bound, it was not illogical to assume that a "Legacy Storage" would improve upon that. And then it didn't, which confuses a lot of us. Granted, the decision is not final and is still being determined, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 We have been asking for what the OP talks about for longer than the Galactic Strongholds has even been in the public conversation. Considering Legacy has heretofore concerned your entire set of characters on a Server and served to facilitate movement of items that have typically been character bound, it was not illogical to assume that a "Legacy Storage" would improve upon that. And then it didn't, which confuses a lot of us. Granted, the decision is not final and is still being determined, so who knows. There are also a lot of us who also didn't place such expectations on LS beyond Crafting Mats, BoE's and Legacy Gear. It was a possibility when they said they were considering it but ultimately they decided not to at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) We have been asking for what the OP talks about for longer than the Galactic Strongholds has even been in the public conversation. Considering Legacy has heretofore concerned your entire set of characters on a Server and served to facilitate movement of items that have typically been character bound, it was not illogical to assume that a "Legacy Storage" would improve upon that. And then it didn't, which confuses a lot of us. Granted, the decision is not final and is still being determined, so who knows. Just so you know... Reno is the OP. You know... The guy you're answering to. There are also a lot of us who also didn't place such expectations on LS beyond Crafting Mats, BoE's and Legacy Gear. It was a possibility when they said they were considering it but ultimately they decided not to at the moment. This is correct. Again, people start to have outlandish expectations based on absolutely nothing. "Legacy" implies exactly that I guess: "Legacy". Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 There are also a lot of us who also didn't place such expectations on LS beyond Crafting Mats, BoE's and Legacy Gear. It was a possibility when they said they were considering it but ultimately they decided not to at the moment. Yes, and what you are seeing is everyone coming out to advocate for Bound-tiems-via-LS now that Bioware has provided details on what Legacy Storage will involve. Before that there was no need, because it was up in the air. Perhaps Bioware will revise, or at the least take the comments into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPiranha Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Now I don't like to interrupt a good conversation but could you guys at least answer the OP? I know Darth has. IMO, I really don't want to pay another fee to convert things from BoP to BoL. I believe there are other ways of making this happen(see my previous suggestion), which is where I chose to focus my discussion points. Also, ending your OP with a snarky meme probably isn't the best way to start a thread and expect people to stay on topic. Edited July 17, 2014 by SteelPiranha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Yes, and what you are seeing is everyone coming out to advocate for Bound-tiems-via-LS now that Bioware has provided details on what Legacy Storage will involve. Before that there was no need, because it was up in the air. Perhaps Bioware will revise, or at the least take the comments into consideration. That's all you can expect them to do. But there is no need for Bound Items via LS, since I feel it will hamper the life of Ops, which by the way are pretty low because we've been running them for a long time without any new Raiding Content. A Player who falls into this category will then take the easy path if allowed to and lose any incentive to run Ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 A Bind on Legacy item converter. Rather than them go thru the huge hassle of redesigning LS to let you put BOP items in there for your alts, you should be asking for a service to convert your BOP items (for a fee) into BOL if you so desire..... http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/51522587.jpg It has been suggested that BW implement a way to allow empty orange shells to converted from bound to character to bound to legacy. This would allow more freedom in choosing a character's appearance yet still keep those items such as earpieces, implants and relics, etc. bound to character. It also remains consistent with any other legacy gear that can be purchased. Any legacy item is an empty orange shell when purchased, so allowing only empty orange shells to be converted would remain consistent with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 IMO, I really don't want to pay another fee to convert things from BoP to BoL. I believe there are other ways of making this happen(see my previous suggestion), which is where I chose to focus my discussion points. Also, ending your OP with a snarky meme probably isn't the best way to start a thread and expect people to stay on topic. 1.) There has to be a fee. It would be a service similar to augment kits. 2.) It's not a snarky meme, it's just hilarious because it's Kermit the Frog and it's silly. Anyone who gets offended by it needs to relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 So you speculate. I personally believe that your fears are unfounded. The thing is, I've already seen this occur. As mentioned in other threads, when Dread Guard gear was easily craftable and obtainable, fewer HM operations groups were formed. It's a logical prediction based on past experience in this game, not wild speculation. Currently, all types of end-game gear is shareable with the exception of earpieces, implants and relics. Anyone that wants these items for an alt MUST run operations again and win the drop. If those are made BoL, it would reduce the number of times one needs to run ops. Thus reducing the number of operations groups formed. It happened between 1.5 and 1.7. I don't know why you think this wouldn't happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 It has been suggested that BW implement a way to allow empty orange shells to converted from bound to character to bound to legacy. This would allow more freedom in choosing a character's appearance yet still keep those items such as earpieces, implants and relics, etc. bound to character. It also remains consistent with any other legacy gear that can be purchased. Any legacy item is an empty orange shell when purchased, so allowing only empty orange shells to be converted would remain consistent with that. Would you consider purple shells? Since they have mod slots in them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Currently, all types of end-game gear is shareable with the exception of earpieces, implants and relics. Anyone that wants these items for an alt MUST run operations again and win the drop. If those are made BoL, it would reduce the number of times one needs to run ops. Thus reducing the number of operations groups formed. It happened between 1.5 and 1.7. I don't know why you think this wouldn't happen again. Here is where you are confused: The only use case where, if relics and the like are BOL, you would see a reduction in demand is with mirror classes. Any player who has another character that is not the same class and spec would still need to acquire a set of relics, etc. They still have to acquire it. How they acquire changes, meaning they can run it with their main or their alt, and not have to run it with their alt. But they still run it. They don't have to run it any more times than usual, neither do they run it any less times than usual. Again, only in instances of mirror class/spec would BOL relics/implants/earpieces reduce the number of operation runs required. That's a minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Here is where you are confused: The only use case where, if relics and the like are BOL, you would see a reduction in demand is with mirror classes. Any player who has another character that is not the same class and spec would still need to acquire a set of relics, etc. They still have to acquire it. How they acquire changes, meaning they can run it with their main or their alt, and not have to run it with their alt. But they still run it. They don't have to run it any more times than usual, neither do they run it any less times than usual. Again, only in instances of mirror class/spec would BOL relics/implants/earpieces reduce the number of operation runs required. That's a minority. Serendip Assault is a relic anyone can use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) IMO, I really don't want to pay another fee to convert things from BoP to BoL. Paying for the things you want is part of life. Get used to it. [Edit: paying for things you DON'T want is part of life too, BTW. ] Edited July 17, 2014 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Serendip Assault is a relic anyone can use... You get SA's on a tank? You use the same earpiece on a Tank that you do on a DPS? The same earpiece as a Healer? I want accuracy on my healer? No. I want shield on my DPS? No. Not all relics, not all ear pieces, and not all implants are universally useful. Sorry. Just because one or two may be, the majority aren't. Edited July 17, 2014 by Kirazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 You get SA's on a tank? You use the same earpiece on a Tank that you do on a DPS? The same earpiece as a Healer? I want accuracy on my healer? No. I want shield on my DPS? No. Not all relics, not all ear pieces, and not all implants are universally useful. Sorry. Just because one or two may be, the majority aren't. Yes, It gets to a point where even SA's get used by tanks in my guild and we do fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You get SA's on a tank?. No toon has to be a tank, so yes, every toon can use the SA relic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiVaN_ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 No. What they're asking is for Bioware to substantially cut down the need to play content on your every single LV55 you have, only to complain about it shortly after. I can't agree more. At the same time I say why not let us share gear? Not everyone enjoys the gearing grind and as more players leave it gets harder to get some pieces. I prefer to gear most of my toons from scratch because I want each toon to have a different look, at the same time I would like to share Relic's, earpieces and implants cause those are a PITA to get and don't affect the cosmetic look of my character. I would rather have all the stuff on the left side of my character sheet be BoL than any more legacy weapons etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 No toon has to be a tank, so yes, every toon can use the SA relic. That logic. I can't even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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