Should Bind on Pickup be removed (or changed)?

[Kirazy]

It does not "force" you to play only your main. You CHOOSE to play only your main.

 

By choosing to play only your main, though, those alts you have do not get the gear. That is the "price" you play for not playing those alts.

 

Perhaps he should have said that you have to run the content with your alts if you want the gear, such as earpieces, relics and implants, for those alts.

 

Wait, wait, wait, you mean to tell me that how I play the game comes down to how I choose to play the game? You mean, independent of what the game makes available to me what I consume in the game is based on how I choose to play the game? I wonder if choosing to play the game is, maybe, just maybe, the most important factor that determines my enjoyment! I wonder if, irrespective of whether or not I can move bound gear through Legacy Storage, that I would, maybe, choose to play the game and choose to run content?

 

Is it conceivable, is it possible, that I am not some weird robot that only takes the path of least resistance through a given program, but am in fact a living, breathing, human being with wants, desires, and personality that plays the game in a way that is unique to me and meets my needs? Is it possible that I and others would run content, just because we find it fun? Is it possible that I don't need to run content, but I want to? Is it possible?

 

IS IT POSSIBLE I CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, AND BIOWARE DOESN'T MAKE ME?

Do you possibly see how stupid it is to argue that his point is irrelevant because he chose something?

[Kirazy]

Ok, folks that want this.... What would you do to replace the credit sink, make legacy gear (and the quests for acquiring it) meaningful, and to reward gameplay for the alts with a sugar daddy main?

 

Replacing the credit sink:

As it stands the credit sink is essentially a one time expense. You pull it out of the originating shells that you get from the token vendors, and put it in your Legacy gear. All that would change now? You spend that money pulling it out of the originating shells, and put it in gear of your choice.

 

OH MY GOD, WAIT, DOES THAT MEAN THE CREDIT SINK IS EXACTLY THE SAME?

Because the originating gear is ugly as sin, and almost no one leaves it in there.

 

The only time you would pay twice or more to extract a mod is when you change outfits. Presently this is changing outfits between the limited available Legacy gear. If I am permitted to move Bound items through Legacy Storage? I'd still pay twice or more when I want to change outfits, but have tremendously more freedom in what outfits I can use to fulfill my requirements of being able to move gear, and also look how I please.

 

Your precious credit sink is entirely maintained and is not "done away with".

 

Making Legacy gear "meaningful":

Uh? Legacy gear is not meaningful. I get four sets for free every character I make. I don't need to do anything except push "Create" to acquire it, lol. It's so "meaningful" I destroy three of the set boxes because I only actually care for one of them. I destroy 21 +3 (I don't like ALL of the set...) pieces of legacy gear every character I make. How is that "meaningful"? All legacy gear is, is a look that provides additional utility. The legacy sets do not have regular versions that aren't legacy. Even if I could move bound items, I'd still use certain pieces of the legacy sets, because that particular look doesn't exist anywhere else.

 

Reward gameplay for alts:

Bro, you and those like you have this bizarre obsession with distinguishing characters in an artificial manner. All of my characters are mine. They are all part of my "Legacy". They all support each other through crafting, credit income, and the like. They are not independent entities that have zero interaction with each other. Being able to gear them out via running content with one power character so that I can do casual fun stuff with all my character should I choose to isn't "sugar daddy".

 

I am a player. I acquired that content. Why do you care where I acquired it, or even where I choose to move it and use it? (Or store it!)

Edited July 18, 2014 by Kirazy

[Prototypemind]

The irony is that if the gear grind is there to keep people playing, then what happens when you have a full set of 180 gear?

 

Nothing left to do, park the toon and move on?

 

Or do I play that toon to earn comms for use on alts?

 

What difference does it make if I grind for gear on my main, or on an alt?

 

The point of it isn't just for the mods, it can also be for unique cosmetic gear. There are a number of weapons and armor that are random drops and BoP that if a player really wants he or she has to grind out and hope for the drop on multiple toons. Pretty standard fare for almost all MMOs when it comes to some item or another.

[Ratajack]

Wait, wait, wait, you mean to tell me that how I play the game comes down to how I choose to play the game? You mean, independent of what the game makes available to me what I consume in the game is based on how I choose to play the game? I wonder if choosing to play the game is, maybe, just maybe, the most important factor that determines my enjoyment! I wonder if, irrespective of whether or not I can move bound gear through Legacy Storage, that I would, maybe, choose to play the game and choose to run content?

 

Is it conceivable, is it possible, that I am not some weird robot that only takes the path of least resistance through a given program, but am in fact a living, breathing, human being with wants, desires, and personality that plays the game in a way that is unique to me and meets my needs? Is it possible that I and others would run content, just because we find it fun? Is it possible that I don't need to run content, but I want to? Is it possible?

 

IS IT POSSIBLE I CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, AND BIOWARE DOESN'T MAKE ME?

Do you possibly see how stupid it is to argue that his point is irrelevant because he chose something?

 

Maybe next time you might actually read the quote to which I responded.

 

Allow me to repeat it:

 

Your logic is flawed because BoP actually forces me to mainly play one character... my main.

 

For instance I won't run a NiM on an alt because I don't want a vehicle to drop there that my main won't be able to use (I already have a few vehicles on some alts and am already frustrated enough that I can't send them to my main). The change from BoP to BoL would actually entice me to use my alts for all the content way more often.

 

The emphasis is mine. Now, my response again:

 

It does not "force" you to play only your main. You CHOOSE to play only your main.

 

By choosing to play only your main, though, those alts you have do not get the gear. That is the "price" you play for not playing those alts.

 

Perhaps he should have said that you have to run the content with your alts if you want the gear, such as earpieces, relics and implants, for those alts.

 

That response was specifically addressing someone's claim that BOP was "forcing" him to play only one character. In effect, he is claiming that BW was "forcing" him to play only one character by not allowing the binding restrictions to be circumvented. That claim is obviously false, IMO.

 

Just as obviously, IMO, there is nothing wrong with choosing to play the game in the manner you enjoy. If you are going to CHOOSE to play the game in the manner which you enjoy, do not claim thqat BW is "forcing" you to do so.

[Deewe]

If you are going to CHOOSE to play the game in the manner which you enjoy, do not claim thqat BW is "forcing" you to do so.

To be fair BioWare is tieing the players hands wtih manacles.

 

You can play whatever character still it has consequences, one of them is BoP.

 

That's a "normal" behavior for most MMO.

Although regarding how GW2 handles this successfully and the legacy concept it could be otherwise.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Deewe

[TX_Angel]

The point of it isn't just for the mods, it can also be for unique cosmetic gear. There are a number of weapons and armor that are random drops and BoP that if a player really wants he or she has to grind out and hope for the drop on multiple toons. Pretty standard fare for almost all MMOs when it comes to some item or another.

 

Fair enough, except I don't use ANY of the drops, other than the mods.

 

All my alts are in CM gear, every one of them. My 6 crafter mules were in whatever dropped from the world until I got them to 55, then I sold all that and put them in pretty looking CM armor (no mods, totally empty). There they sit, crafting away, all they will likely ever do.

 

My alts that I play, also CM armor.

 

I frankly think most of the world stuff is ugly. There are probably exceptions, but I prefer to pickout armor by the set from collections. Trying to grind to get a "look" does not interest me.

 

Grinding is for power, CM is for looks. Works for me.

[Ratajack]

To be fair BioWare is tieing the players hands wtih manacles.

 

You can play whatever character still it has consequences, one of them is BoP.

 

That's a "normal" behavior for most MMO.

Although regarding how GW2 handles this successfully and the legacy concept it could be otherwise.

 

Almost every MMO I have played has had bound to character items and none of those games allowed the transfer of bound to character items between characters. As you said, it seems to be "normal" for most MMO's.

 

Consequences attached to which character a player chooses to play does not equal the developer "forcing" that player to play only one character, or even play a certain way, though. The CHOICE remains with the player as to how they CHOOSE to play or how many characters they CHOOSE to play.

[Uruare]

I'm glad I make more money than most any twenty of you combined. I buy and resell CM stuff, then buy GTN pieces that I determine are mathematically worth it to my purposes.

 

One hour of my work time is worth about $260. If I spend a grand on CM hypercrates and sell off everything I don't want (and that'd beg most of that drek), I've worked just shy of four hours that month to do so.

 

In four hours' time, there's not one single thing I could do that would have a remotely significant return compared to how many millions of credits I pulled in from that.

 

Not even close. Yet, I haven't done it again and, for how relatively little I spend in general, lonely never will feel like I ought to.

 

All my 55's have 180 hilts and barrels, bought off the gtn. I don't bother buying mods or enhancements like that, since I actually enjoy doing my groupfinder stuff... though I never do it on more than two characters in a week. I'd love to be able to have things be bound in legacy rather than bop.

 

I'd probably do way more fp's if whatever I did on them contributed to the pool of gear to improve them with.

 

Alas, nay. All of them will sit in 162/168 stuff until the next expansion and gear/level bump comes around, whenever that'll be.

 

In the meantime, my chartered are itemized perfectly for what I do with them, which is pretty much everything except ops and pvp.

 

I'd be nice to get the big stamina 180 gear rocks, but the itemization on 180 Com gear is ... silly sometimes. I won't use most of the enhancements and only maybe half the mods.

 

Some people life to insist that the game must shalt be ruined for me. That I have 'nothing to work toward'.

 

I find that amusing. I didn't come here to work. I came here to be entertained by star wars stories, and hopefully do some stuff with strongholds.

 

The less work I have to do to enjoy the stories and putz around the gameworld, the happier I am.

 

And wouldn't you know it, I subsidized many of my fellow players with less funding to play with, and I'm rather happy to think of it that way.

 

But please, someone come along and tell me in doing it wrong and I'm not actually having fun or something.

 

It's no different than trying to tell these other folks that bol becoming standard would ruin fun. I'm not even sure how it could.

 

Nuts, you no longer have to go through a tedious process of mod ripping, inserting into bol, making to alt and then ripping again?

 

Be still my panicking heart. What ever shall we do if that tedious process went away? Surely the game would implode, explode, combust and disintegrate because a credit sink would vanish!

 

Gaspu Batmanu!

 

Credit sinks have appeared that doesn't prior exist. The casino, anyone?

 

Here's a novel idea - maybe they should come up with consumable items people will want to throw credits at.

 

Housing will probably have credit costs up the wazoo for everything that isn't cm/achievement exclusive. Legacy perk unlocks have significant credit costs, or cm coin costs if you prefer going that route.

 

Seems to me that the credit sink matter ain't gonna go nuclear even if extraction fees were nixed altogether. I'm a millionaire many times over and I don't bother ripping much because there are stupid fees.

 

Instead, I'll leave for of my alts sitting in their 156/162/occasional 168 stuff and... the they'll sit.

 

You win. I hope the desired outcome was to strongly encourage folks like m'self to focus on one or two characters tops though.

 

If it wasn't, the current strategy might need some revision. I am in no way, shape or form enticed to 'work harder' or 'step up' by the current model, and why should I be? It wastes my time on purpose in ways that simply aren't necessary.

 

They're not obligated to cater to me, of course, but neither am I obligated to do anything I don't very well enjoy.

 

And I'm here for the story and because it's star wars.

 

I really don't give two dead parakeets about much else.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Uruare

[Deewe]

Almost every MMO I have played has had bound to character items and none of those games allowed the transfer of bound to character items between characters. As you said, it seems to be "normal" for most MMO's.

 

Consequences attached to which character a player chooses to play does not equal the developer "forcing" that player to play only one character, or even play a certain way, though. The CHOICE remains with the player as to how they CHOOSE to play or how many characters they CHOOSE to play.

And yet in GW2, for example, you can play any character and send looted gear to them.

 

Still people say it makes them play a bigger variety of character because they are not stuck farming on a specific character so he eventually gets the desired drop.

 

Things can be improved.

[Jeweledleah]

And yet in GW2, for example, you can play any character and send looted gear to them.

 

Still people say it makes them play a bigger variety of character because they are not stuck farming on a specific character so he eventually gets the desired drop.

 

Things can be improved.

 

looted gear more often than not is BoE. when you bound it - you 1. cannot mail it to your alts - in fact you cannot mail anything to your alts. you have to use your bank to transfer items. and you don't have individual banks, only account wide bank.

2. apparently, some things bind on account and some things bind to specific characters. those things? only character you bound them to can use.

3. last but not least - GW2 drop system is completely different from SWTOR. there are no rolls. there is no drop that all of you hope to win and may the odds be ever in your favor. loot is individual to each player. so are gathering nodes for that matter.

 

now, I haven't entirely figured out yet how bind on account vs bind to specific character is determined, as I've only been back for couple of days, however - yes system in TOR can be improved, but merely allowing BoP items into legacy vault is NOT that improvement. the entire system needs to be overhauled for that to work. which is probably why response from developers was "not in coming patch, but we're still talking about it.

 

as it is - TOR is far more flexible when it comes to transferring upgrades to alts, what with legacy gear and tier bonuses being bound to armorings and not shells like it used to be back in a day, than many, of not most of the other MMO's on the market.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Ratajack]

looted gear more often than not is BoE. when you bound it - you 1. cannot mail it to your alts - in fact you cannot mail anything to your alts. you have to use your bank to transfer items. and you don't have individual banks, only account wide bank.

2. apparently, some things bind on account and some things bind to specific characters. those things? only character you bound them to can use.

3. last but not least - GW2 drop system is completely different from SWTOR. there are no rolls. there is no drop that all of you hope to win and may the odds be ever in your favor. loot is individual to each player. so are gathering nodes for that matter.

 

now, I haven't entirely figured out yet how bind on account vs bind to specific character is determined, as I've only been back for couple of days, however - yes system in TOR can be improved, but merely allowing BoP items into legacy vault is NOT that improvement. the entire system needs to be overhauled for that to work. which is probably why response from developers was "not in coming patch, but we're still talking about it.

 

as it is - TOR is far more flexible when it comes to transferring upgrades to alts, what with legacy gear and tier bonuses being bound to armorings and not shells like it used to be back in a day, than many, of not most of the other MMO's on the market.

 

This is one instance where we are in agreement.

[TX_Angel]

Almost every MMO I have played has had bound to character items and none of those games allowed the transfer of bound to character items between characters. As you said, it seems to be "normal" for most MMO's.

 

Consequences attached to which character a player chooses to play does not equal the developer "forcing" that player to play only one character, or even play a certain way, though. The CHOICE remains with the player as to how they CHOOSE to play or how many characters they CHOOSE to play.

 

Great, so they all suck and it is a bad design decision by all of them.

 

Happy now?

 

A lot of people play these games, but those numbers are FAR outnumbered by those who play casual games and less complicated games. The dollars involved are swamped as well, far more money is spent on casual gamers than on hardcore gamers.

 

The reason these MMOs keep having problems is that they think "good" = "hard grind".

 

Yea, those people are actually in the minority, most people want easy and fun, not grind.

[TX_Angel]

All my 55's have 180 hilts and barrels, bought off the gtn. I don't bother buying mods or enhancements like that, since I actually enjoy doing my groupfinder stuff... though I never do it on more than two characters in a week. I'd love to be able to have things be bound in legacy rather than bop.

 

I'd probably do way more fp's if whatever I did on them contributed to the pool of gear to improve them with.

 

Alas, nay. All of them will sit in 162/168 stuff until the next expansion and gear/level bump comes around, whenever that'll be.

 

And I'm here for the story and because it's star wars.

 

I really don't give two dead parakeets about much else.

 

^ This, for the win...

 

All the "hard core grinders" need to get out of mamma's basement and understand that they aren't the market and the sooner EA and company figure that out and cater to those with money to spend, the sooner they'll be profitable.

 

I've also spent over a thousand dollars on the CM, it is why I have bay after bay filled with CM gear. My time isn't worth as much as yours, but it is worth about $100/hr, so frankly, the $15/sub isn't even noise.

 

I'd gladly pay $50 a month to just have everything CM unlocked and all the travel timers turned to zero. Shame EA doesn't offer that as an option.

[Prototypemind]

Fair enough, except I don't use ANY of the drops, other than the mods.

 

All my alts are in CM gear, every one of them. My 6 crafter mules were in whatever dropped from the world until I got them to 55, then I sold all that and put them in pretty looking CM armor (no mods, totally empty). There they sit, crafting away, all they will likely ever do.

 

My alts that I play, also CM armor.

 

I frankly think most of the world stuff is ugly. There are probably exceptions, but I prefer to pickout armor by the set from collections. Trying to grind to get a "look" does not interest me.

 

Grinding is for power, CM is for looks. Works for me.

The cost of ripping the mods is an intended part of the credit sink in the game. If you didn't have to spend around 30K to rip them from the original item, then another 30K to rip them from the Legacy gear, then there would be a ton of extra credits in the game, and prices would be even higher.

 

Secondly, it makes players grind content for Legacy gear if they haven't gotten the free sets that the game offers. Some people simply like the cosmetics of those sets, but some need them to move those mods between toons, and if BoP items could be moved freely there would be no need. Legacy gear also wouldn't be needed for companions that share the same main stat, the items could just be dropped in Legacy storage.

 

On the latter issue of grinding it out to get the gear, not everyone will agree with it, but that's just how it is in game. In regards to the credit sink, it does help to keep the economy in check along with the other sinks in place.

[Uruare]

^ This, for the win...

 

All the "hard core grinders" need to get out of mamma's basement and understand that they aren't the market and the sooner EA and company figure that out and cater to those with money to spend, the sooner they'll be profitable.

 

I've also spent over a thousand dollars on the CM, it is why I have bay after bay filled with CM gear. My time isn't worth as much as yours, but it is worth about $100/hr, so frankly, the $15/sub isn't even noise.

 

I'd gladly pay $50 a month to just have everything CM unlocked and all the travel timers turned to zero. Shame EA doesn't offer that as an option.

 

Still very much a matter of that your time is valuable though, yep. I'm not at in favor of pay to win games, though I'm also very keen to contrasts.

 

$15/mo is a lot to some, though I'm of the opinion that if a 15 dollar monthly fee is a difficult life choice, killing time in mmo's might be a horrible thing to do.

 

I mean, the things don't exactly pay well to play and all. Some of those sorts should work as hard at rl as they do at raiding and grinding.

 

That aside, bind to legacy wouldn't be any kind of doom-harbinging QoL feature, and some few on this thread are clearly saying 'no' for silly reasons.

 

These games used to take time. I've been playing mmos for a long while, and I remain very unconvinced that the 'good old days' accruals were.

 

Exhaustive time sinks. I love the social element. I especially loved helping build and being a part of a community back in Ultima Online, forever ago.

 

I loved being part of the community we had going in city of heroes too. The digital life really appeals to me - no matter where I have to live this year or fly this week, my digital home in some mmo or another is always right there.

 

To me, that's a nice thing. A fair few of my colleagues have drinking problems, drug problems or other poor coping habits for dealing (badly) with the stresses inherent to why we earn the big bucks. Me, I traded whiskey and crippling anxiety for mmos and a decent fitness and diet regimen.

 

So, I sometimes have to laugh hysterically at those that declare something like this topic to somehow threaten to 'dumb the game down'.

 

As if rote tedium makes it a smart game? It didn't even seem like relevant commentary, let alone a feasible perspective.

 

Everyone values their own time differently too. I'm in a career wherein which is my business to know the dollar value of my own, but if I were to wax prosaic, I'd say that time is priceless.

 

No matter what we earn per hour or don't in any currency, time is something we never get back once its spent.

 

We should all, perhaps, be considerably less tolerant of how our paid-for forms of entertainment work harder at wasting our invaluable, irreplaceable time than they do to provide us with the entertainer we're paying them for.

 

They waste their own time working hard at avoiding work, they ways our time with awkward grinds and insultingly arbitrary corner cutting practices designed to save THEM time and money.

 

Deliver the cheapest, shoddiest product that the market will bear and charge whatever premium said market will tolerate for it?

 

Wish I could get away with that and not wind up out of a job.

 

And to anyone out there about to mewlingly sneer that mmo's might not be for me, go boil your head. There is nothing inherent to an mmo that has to make it be obnoxious and disrespectful of its players' time in such ways add that have merely been tolerated.

 

Massive multiplayer online =/= required to suck, drag every little tedious thing out to milk you and bilk you, then turn around and make quality of life a rather tertiary priority.

 

And it's not just TOR guilty of it. It's most of them, in many ways. They're all guilty of trying to sell us Kool aid at champagne prices, and they get away with it, because enough of you out there are stupid enough to defend that practice on what seems to be a misplaced loyalty to 'tradition'.

 

I'm pleased to know that the trends have been moving in directions that serve interests alike to my own though. The so-called hardcore have been catered to many times, and I'm not even remotely sorry to see the trends leaving that behind in many ways.

 

And if Bioware wants to be turds, I'm sure Trion or Anet will gladly have my money.

 

Someone should tell devs in games like these that they've got some real competition these days. They seem to know it on paper, but fail to behave ina manner that even remotely suggests that they comprehend what that means in any practical fashion.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Uruare

[BuriDogshin]

I'm glad I make more money than most any twenty of you combined. ... One hour of my work time is worth about $260.

That does not mean you make more than I do, and I have a guild mate who makes more than I do.

Yes, high-paid professionals play SWTOR. Who'da thunk it?

[Tsillah]

snipped for holy wall of text

 

If you are enjoying the game you are doing it right. I am glad for you that you make that much money and put so much into the game.

 

Back on topic:

 

Personally I think the itemisation and end game gearing in general is a mess in the current state. It also involves crafting.

 

I wonder if the next round of level cap raise will give us something better. I think it's good that crafting can craft stuff that is one step below the highest tier, but I also think that commendations should go max to 2 steps below the highest gear.

 

I think it would've been better if ultimate comms would give 168 gear in the current situation and that for better gear you'd have to do ops or get it via crafting. Currently there are too many commendation heroes in full 180 gear with horrible itemisation and not a clue how to play their class. An let's be honest, most of these people don't play HM ops so why would commendations give better? Most of my alts sit in 162/168 with augments and they are geared enough to do HM ops. I guess I just don't get the logic behind the current set up.

 

BoP is a mechanism that is a credit sink as removing mods costs credits. I don't see them changing that soon so I would think that a way to make shells BoL or assign them to an alt with a credit cost actually could be a better solution.

[Deewe]

No matter what we earn per hour or don't in any currency, time is something we never get back once its spent.

 

We should all, perhaps, be considerably less tolerant of how our paid-for forms of entertainment work harder at wasting our invaluable, irreplaceable time than they do to provide us with the entertainer we're paying them for.

 

**snip**

 

I'm the casual gamer with more money than time to burn. Loath me for it if you like..

Thanks a lot for your post, the whole of it.

 

Wanted to highlight the above part.

 

It's nice to see not everyone is a brainwashed sheep.

[TX_Angel]

The cost of ripping the mods is an intended part of the credit sink in the game. If you didn't have to spend around 30K to rip them from the original item, then another 30K to rip them from the Legacy gear, then there would be a ton of extra credits in the game, and prices would be even higher.

 

Meh, this is a very minor issue. Some of you value the "credit sink" WAY more than I do...

 

I have, between my various toons, upwards of a hundred million credits.

 

Really, a 30K or 60K cost to move 162/168/180 parts to a new alt is NOT a concern. Nor does it really cut into the number of credits since I earn more than that in less than an hour in this game running Oricon.

 

If you REALLY want a credit sink in the game, fine... just charge some reasonable number of credits to move a bound item between alts. I would gladly pay that to move stuff around and skip the work of the legacy gear game, which is just annoying.

 

Secondly, it makes players grind content for Legacy gear if they haven't gotten the free sets that the game offers.

 

No, everyone gets at least 2 sets of legacy gear for free. If you just sub last week, you get two. Been sub for awhile, four.

 

There is no "grind" for legacy gear.

 

On the latter issue of grinding it out to get the gear, not everyone will agree with it, but that's just how it is in game.

 

And that is why games like this ended up F2P and struggle to survive, because of such outdated and pain in the butt systems.

 

WoW is the great exception, perhaps largely because it was early and got so much more right than prior efforts did (EQ, UO, etc). But even it is having trouble now slowly bleeding subs.

 

The future is the casual gamer, not the hardcore grinder. You may not like that, but frankly, if you want hardcore, go play EVE Online.

 

Such games will continue to exist, but mass market games such as SWTOR aren't going that direction.

[Prototypemind]

And that is why games like this ended up F2P and struggle to survive, because of such outdated and pain in the butt systems.

 

WoW is the great exception, perhaps largely because it was early and got so much more right than prior efforts did (EQ, UO, etc). But even it is having trouble now slowly bleeding subs.

 

The future is the casual gamer, not the hardcore grinder. You may not like that, but frankly, if you want hardcore, go play EVE Online.

 

Such games will continue to exist, but mass market games such as SWTOR aren't going that direction.

I couldn't care less either way. I have plenty of Legacy gear, plenty of creds, and play the content for other reasons. You and I have tons of creds, but not everyone else does. You mention that is a non-issue for you, but it does work as a credit sink for more casual players, who as you noted are the majority. The majority don't have freely flowing credits to burn on every little thing and the cost of pulling mods to send across their legacy does help to keep in game credit levels in check.

 

Like it or not, it serves a purpose. Even with viable suggestions like a means of converting BoP items into Legacy gear and having an appearance tab the majority have agreed that a high credit cost needs to be tied to those additions if they ever show, and that they see nothing wrong with such.

 

As to new subs getting Legacy gear, I did not believe that those who sub today still get the GSF sets that I was referencing. If there are others that I missed please correct me, but all other sets that I know of require reputation or certificates to acquire, meaning that there is work involved.

[TX_Angel]

As to new subs getting Legacy gear, I did not believe that those who sub today still get the GSF sets that I was referencing. If there are others that I missed please correct me, but all other sets that I know of require reputation or certificates to acquire, meaning that there is work involved.

 

They do, I setup a new account just recently for my son, it started as F2P, then I subbed it.

 

Two free sets of legacy gear. And 20 million credits to outfit it with all kinds of good stuff.

[Tsillah]

I have, between my various toons, upwards of a hundred million credits.

 

I hope you don't think you are representative of most players here. You are the exception rather than the rule with so many credits.

 

For most players this moving of mods is actually quite a bit of money.

[Uruare]

That does not mean you make more than I do, and I have a guild mate who makes more than I do.

Yes, high-paid professionals play SWTOR. Who'da thunk it?

 

Yes, some of us do. I'm not even the only one I personally know.

 

My point remains though - time is valuable. Maybe if we with steep monetary values commanded by our time started sending game devs bills for our time they frivolously love to squander with generic tedium, inconvenience existing strictly to make things take longer and rampant prioritization of their convenience over even the functionality of some of their own games systems?

 

Maybe it'd give them at least one clue as to what they're screwing with when they think it's cool to have a companion mission take two hours, then fail.

 

Maybe then they'd have a dollar value to associate with how much they waste with making people gamble with RE'ING to craft.

 

Waste my time? My time is worth more than most of them get paid, I'm very sure. I don't craft anymore because it is a giant waste of my time. It's value as a system is all but dead to me, which decreases the net value of their game to me.

 

GSF? I'm glad it was technically a free update. I still feel ripped off by it for how it could've been a great medium to expand the storytelling into. Instead, it's a pvp thing that I'm not sure even the pvp enthusiasts particularly wanted.

 

So yeah, there are lots of people that play TOR. I'd speculate that very few of us like to feel like our time is being mocked and squandered though, no matter our earning potential or our lack thereof.

 

I wonder how many people with money they'll keep, if they don't start increasing the returns on our time investments more intelligently.

[Ratajack]

Yes, some of us do. I'm not even the only one I personally know.

 

My point remains though - time is valuable. Maybe if we with steep monetary values commanded by our time started sending game devs bills for our time they frivolously love to squander with generic tedium, inconvenience existing strictly to make things take longer and rampant prioritization of their convenience over even the functionality of some of their own games systems?

 

 

Talk about a false sense of enntitlement. You want to bill the devs for not handing you what you want instantly? You are getting exactly what you agreed to when you signed the TOS. BW is under no obligation to give you anything more than that.

 

 

Maybe it'd give them at least one clue as to what they're screwing with when they think it's cool to have a companion mission take two hours, then fail.

 

Maybe then they'd have a dollar value to associate with how much they waste with making people gamble with RE'ING to craft.

 

Waste my time? My time is worth more than most of them get paid, I'm very sure. I don't craft anymore because it is a giant waste of my time. It's value as a system is all but dead to me, which decreases the net value of their game to me.

 

GSF? I'm glad it was technically a free update. I still feel ripped off by it for how it could've been a great medium to expand the storytelling into. Instead, it's a pvp thing that I'm not sure even the pvp enthusiasts particularly wanted.

 

So yeah, there are lots of people that play TOR. I'd speculate that very few of us like to feel like our time is being mocked and squandered though, no matter our earning potential or our lack thereof.

 

I wonder how many people with money they'll keep, if they don't start increasing the returns on our time investments more intelligently.

 

If you do not feel your getting your money's worth, no one is forcing you to stay here and play the game, let alone pay the subscription.

 

Obviously, since you are still here and paying the subscription fee, you must feel the you are receiving fair value for your money, or you would, as you say, take it elsewhere.

[LordArtemis]

I personally look forward to the day when this relic from past is gone. BoP, and all of it's derivatives are irritating IMO. I live with it because it is a reality of modern MMOs...but as time passes it becomes less and less prevalent as the market changes.

 

And I think that is a good thing, despite the obvious hits some areas of the game will take if ever lifted. The games will adapt as they always have, like when player looting, corpse runs and permadeath became extinct.

 

IMO it is a relic of the hardcore days of MMOs that needs to join its brothers in rest.