Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Empire of Plagues vs Imperial Droid Division

[Beniboybling]

Except an SSD doesn't have that kind of weaponry.

 

We've seen Star Destroyers crash into planets and barely make a dent before, it's obviously the type of Vessel that it is.

 

Also stop trying to be funny, if you knew what you're talking about it couldn't have been forest fires, as the entire planet had already been rendered lifeless. Therefore, the only thing it could ignite would be it's own fuel, so the raging planet wide fires was JUST the ship dying.

Well that's great, but until we have some proof that Kor Chokk's explode when destroyed, enough to destroy an entire fleet, I can't accept it as a valid argument.

[Silenceo]

I do see one thing, the I.D.D's fighters are damn fast, they could essentially bypass enemy fighter screens and swarm the LoT, if need be just repeatedly dive bomb the fighters into the same area over and over till it's crippled.

 

Bit surprised that no one before you has mentioned this little fact.

 

Side Note: Speed:

 

Tie/D automated - 1,300 km/h (length 6.3 meters)

 

Corral Skipper - 400 km/h (length 13 meters)

 

 

The other 2 EoP craft I can not find a speed for, though the Vong assault ship I assume is even slower... The Dartship, likely faster.

 

After Thought: Almost like a real world bomber trying to get into a dog fight with a jet. The Bomber can dish out the punishment if it ever hits, and it can take a hit. But its enemy is just too fast for them... I mean...more than x3, dear god!

Edited July 17, 2014 by Silenceo

[Darksaberexile]

Except an SSD doesn't have that kind of weaponry.

 

We've seen Star Destroyers crash into planets and barely make a dent before, it's obviously the type of Vessel that it is.

 

Also stop trying to be funny, if you knew what you're talking about it couldn't have been forest fires, as the entire planet had already been rendered lifeless. Therefore, the only thing it could ignite would be it's own fuel, so the raging planet wide fires was JUST the ship dying.

 

If I remember right, the bioweapon the vong deployed created a large amount of hydrogen in the atmosphere, which the ship caused to ignite (haven't read that book in quite a while though, I didn't care much for the vong plot line).

[karadron]

If I remember right, the bioweapon the vong deployed created a large amount of hydrogen in the atmosphere, which the ship caused to ignite (haven't read that book in quite a while though, I didn't care much for the vong plot line).

 

No that's about right, because of the Vong's biological weapons the planet was practically waiting for something to ignite it's atmosphere. The fact that the LoT was brought into it set off the final destruction of the planet.

[Silenceo]

Assuming there is a Yammosk inside the LoT? If so, what happens if that creature is killed, regarding the star fighters?

[karadron]

Assuming there is a Yammosk inside the LoT? If so, what happens if that creature is killed, regarding the star fighters?

 

There is no evidence that a Yammosk was in the LoT. It seemed that it was controlled mostly by the Vong themselves, by plugging into its nervous system. Or something along those lines.

[Aurbere]

Bit surprised that no one before you has mentioned this little fact.

 

Side Note: Speed:

 

Tie/D automated - 1,300 km/h (length 6.3 meters)

 

Corral Skipper - 400 km/h (length 13 meters)

 

 

The other 2 EoP craft I can not find a speed for, though the Vong assault ship I assume is even slower... The Dartship, likely faster.

 

After Thought: Almost like a real world bomber trying to get into a dog fight with a jet. The Bomber can dish out the punishment if it ever hits, and it can take a hit. But its enemy is just too fast for them... I mean...more than x3, dear god!

 

I think that'll make a difference in the fighter battle. I think it would also help fighters dodge the fire of the larger ships as well.

[tunewalker]

I think that'll make a difference in the fighter battle. I think it would also help fighters dodge the fire of the larger ships as well.

 

Those stats are not good, that is atmospheric speeds....

 

"Coralskippers were strictly space vehicles, and performed poorly in planetary atmospheres. Coralskippers were not capable of traveling for long-range travel in space and had to rely on a larger vessel to transport them across long distances."

 

Pulled from wookie

 

 

Also pulled from wookie

 

"Like all classes of Yuuzhan Vong spacecraft, the coralskipper utilized the dovin basal as a means of propulsion, which became a weakness to exploit when destroying the coralskipper. When propelling the craft, the dovin basal was not capable of defending the craft as efficiently as it could when remaining stationary."

 

 

Movement IS a weakness of the Vong ships as well as flanking... I am sure Trench can figure that out, but with out trench there will be a problem finding that.

[Silenceo]

Those stats are not good, that is atmospheric speeds....

 

"Coralskippers were strictly space vehicles, and performed poorly in planetary atmospheres. Coralskippers were not capable of traveling for long-range travel in space and had to rely on a larger vessel to transport them across long distances."

 

Pulled from wookie

 

 

Also pulled from wookie

 

"Like all classes of Yuuzhan Vong spacecraft, the coralskipper utilized the dovin basal as a means of propulsion, which became a weakness to exploit when destroying the coralskipper. When propelling the craft, the dovin basal was not capable of defending the craft as efficiently as it could when remaining stationary."

 

 

Movement IS a weakness of the Vong ships as well as flanking... I am sure Trench can figure that out, but with out trench there will be a problem finding that.

 

True, but I did not see any speeds in space, so was the only speeds given. Still, less than 1/2 the target and probably still much faster. Not to mention for TIE's they had heavish defenses. *They had shields AND armor!* :eek:

 

Side Note: One little thing that always bothered me about Vong...Do they have limited ammo? Corral skippers would seem like they do not have much room to store things for the ship to spit...I know, space magicz, but just wanted to pose the question.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

True, but I did not see any speeds in space, so was the only speeds given. Still, less than 1/2 the target and probably still much faster. Not to mention for TIE's they had heavish defenses. *They had shields AND armor!* :eek:

 

I can

 

Corralskipper

Maximum acceleration

3,700 G

 

TIE/D

MGLT

100 MGLT[1]

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Megalight

 

 

 

 

This is an E-wing

 

Maximum acceleration

4,200 G

 

MGLT

120 MGLT[1]

 

 

So now we have a basis of comparison of sorts.... from the look of it... both craft have similar levels of speed

 

 

Edit: also on the case of shields and armor, the Coralskippers were well armor, but the dovin Basals also acted as their shields... its a case of either moving or shielding most of their bodies... it was why it was noted as a weakness that ALL VONG SHIPS shared.

 

 

(if you do the math the TIE/D's logical acceleration speed is 3,500 thus technically slightly slower )

 

 

Bassically 20 MGLT= 700 G acceleration

Edited July 17, 2014 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Those stats are not good, that is atmospheric speeds....

 

/sadface

[tunewalker]

/sadface

 

I solved the problem

 

Though there is a potential incorrectness about the above....

 

Maximum acceleration

5,100 G

MGLT

120 MGLT[2]

 

A-Wing

 

 

Length

12.5 meters[5]

Maximum acceleration

3,700 G

MGLT

100 MGLT[6

 

X-wing

 

 

Considering the corral skipper's size and Acceleration... it probably moves similarly to an X-wing

 

Note the A-wing is smaller then the E-wing probably resulting in the Higher accelleration.

 

 

Edit: the closest thing to the TIE/D is the TIE/LN

 

Maximum acceleration

4,100 G

MGLT

100 MGLT[3]

Maximum speed (atmosphere)

1,200 km/h[3]

 

As you can see its atmo speed is a little slower, which means so is likely its acceleration...

 

Likely TIE/D accelleration I believe is 4,150 close to Interceptor speed.....

"4,240 G or 21 MGLT/second"

Edited July 17, 2014 by tunewalker

[Silenceo]

So, to Summerize, you theorize that:

 

Tie/D = between 4,150 G and 4,240 G

 

Corralskipper= 3,700 G

 

*Summarized for easier reference for later*

 

If that is accurate, that is still not too shabby.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

So, to Summerize, you theorize that:

 

Tie/D = between 4,150 G and 4,240 G

 

Corralskipper= 3,700 G

 

*Summarized for easier reference for later*

 

If that is accurate, that is still not too shabby.

 

Yes with both likely having a top speed of 100 MGLT

[Silenceo]

So....what else should we go over concerning space?

[Aurbere]

So....what else should we go over concerning space?

 

Taking down that Leviathan of a flagship?

[Silenceo]

Taking down that Leviathan of a flagship?

 

Haven't we been going over things concerning that for the last 5 pages?

[Aurbere]

Haven't we been going over things concerning that for the last 5 pages?

 

Yeah, but you should sum it all up nicely. Drive the point home, as they say.

[Silenceo]

Concerning Boarding Actions:

Vengeance

 

 

Its main defense against boarders is two fold, first, it has no hangers, in order for the crew and such to get inside they have to dock with stations and go through air locks. Second, due to the no hangers, the Allegiance class is able to have much stronger, and more effective, armor covering due to the plates being able to be in less pieces to fit around the hangers. This means that they boarding craft can not simply land in the hanger and infect, and the air locks are known locations that are easy to use as kill zones. As for burning through the hull... It is EXTREMELY strong armor, and the time it takes to burn through it for a boarding craft *which are theorized to be unarmed* Is plenty of time for any number of the lighter guns from the other ships to pick it off.

 

 

Vindicator

 

 

Strong point defense system for a ship of its size combined with its relatively small size compared to many of the other ships present.

 

 

Strike

 

 

A small target for a ship of its class as well as for how much weaponry it possesses. If it is boarded however, due to the compartmentalized nature of the ship, it is very possible they could simply detach the infected portion into space.

 

 

Tartan

 

 

Combine the ships speed and heavy focus on anti-fighter and I highly doubt any boarding craft will be able to board it unless they send an obscene amount at it, at which point it is quite wasteful.

 

 

Navy Crew

 

 

They are from the Galactic Empire meaning I likely have some marines of decent quality, and should anything actually make it onto the ship, it will be in relatively small number and should be solved by a few blaster bolts from these guys.

 

 

Fleet Weaponry Comparison:

 

I.D.D.

 

 

Vindicators 20:

500 light turbo lasers

400 light quad turbo lasers

400 turbo point defense

400 ion point defense

length 600

 

1440 fighter compliment

-960 TIE/D

-240 Shadow Droids

-240 Skiprays

 

Strikes 9:

180 turbo laser cannons

90 turbo laser batteries

90 ion cannons

length 450

 

324 fighter compliment

-216 TIE/D

-108 Skiprays

 

Tartans 15:

300 laser cannons

length 250 meters

 

Vengeance:

12 heavy turbolaser turrets

9 triple turbolaser cannons

Unconfirmed lighter weaponry across hull

 

Total:

180 turbo laser cannons

90 turbo laser batteries

90 ion cannons

500 light turbo lasers

400 light quad turbo lasers

400 turbo point defense

400 ion point defense

12 heavy turbolaser turrets

9 triple turbolaser cannons

Unconfirmed lighter weaponry across hull of the Vengance

 

Fighter Compliment 1764

-1176, 98 squadrons (exactly x2 of the other 2 combined)

-240 Shadow Droids, 20 squadrons

-348 Skiprays, 29 squadrons

 

 

Imperial Design Philosophy:

Most Imperial vessels are built so that the majority of their weapons can be used when the enemy is directly in front of them allowing them to unleash quite a bit of firepower if positioned well. Overall strong vessels built for war, however, they did tend to have severe flaws when it came to Bridge tower placement, though, many of their ships had secondary bridges if the first went down.

 

 

 

E.O.P.

 

 

A-vek liluunu 10:

200 Yaret-Kors

Fighter Compliment 1440

 

Miid Ro’ik 4:

240 Yaret-Kors

Fighter Compliment 240

 

Legacy of Torment:

120 Yaret-Kors

Fighter Compliment 216

 

Total:

560 Yaret-Kors

Fighter Compliment 1896 Fighters

 

Yuuzhan Vong Design Philosophy:

Stand and fight, running is for the weak. Sacrifices maneuverability for great defense, or movement to sacrifice their defense. Their weapons are spread out along their organic hulls causing many to be unable to fire at the same target. While this allows them to be able to respond to any direction, they have been shown to be ineffective at dealing with attacks from multiple directions at once.

 

 

Star Fighter Comparison:

 

TIE/D Automated

 

 

2 laser cannons

Heavier Armor than other TIE's

Moderate-Strong Shields

Fast (between 4,150 G and 4,240 G) (100 MGTL)

Maneuverable (Most of its maneuvers would kill organic pilots)

Able to connect via wireless with a hub

6.3 meters long

 

 

Coral Skipper

 

 

Yorik coral (able to often burn through shields rapidly)

Dovin Basals (movement and defense)

Adequately Armored (Many times in the Vong war that even one or two hits from an X-wing destroyed a ship)

Pilot becomes the ship

13 meters long

3700 G (100 MGTL)

 

 

Fighter Comparison

 

 

While there are likely more Coral skippers than there are TIE/D due to the Imperial's method of fighter compliments, it is good to note the main differences. The acceleration of the TIE/D has an edge, even though their max speed is supposedly the same. The next key difference is that the TIE/D is half of the size, and complimented with that slight speed boost, it will make them hard to hit for the Coral Skippers. Coral Skippers however do have the defensive advantage despite the fact TIE/D's have reasonable defenses over other TIE models. Maneuverability goes to the TIE/D's due to the extreme maneuvering they can do with no fear of killing an organic pilot, not to mention for the Coral Skippers to defend heavily they have to stop moving completely. When moving Coral Skippers sacrifice most of their defenses, and due to the speed disadvantage this compounds. Despite this, their black holes are able to absorb quite a bit of firepower before being bypassed, and due to the TIE/D's armament in a 1 vs 1 the Coral Skipper wins.

 

Edge Coral Skipper, but just barely.

 

 

GAT-12 Skipray Blastboat

 

 

GAT-12h/i/j:

Mendarn Arms medium Dar-2 ion cannons (3)

Twin Senko Systems 5000x2 "Tru-Lok" laser cannon turret (1)

Starboard proton torpedo launcher (1)

Standard load: 4 torpedoes [6] (12 for GAT-12j)

Port concussion missile launcher (1)

Standard load: 8 missiles [6] (18 for GAT-12j)

 

Length

 

25 meters

Width

 

9.2 meters in flight configuration

14.3 meters in landing configuration

 

Height/depth

 

14.3 meters in flight configuration

7.2 meters in landing configuration

 

 

 

Dartship

 

 

Chemical Weapons

Very fast

Agile

Suicide bomber

 

Other information is...lacking...

 

 

Bomber Comparison

 

 

Without getting into it, I have to give it to the Skipray, due to the fact they can hit hard with their weapons without sacrificing the ship. Without sacrificing itself, the Dartship seems very much like an interceptor. Besides, the Skipray was often referred to as a capital ship all by itself.

 

 

Yorik-vec assault cruiser

 

 

 

Yorik Coral armor

Dovin Basals

Quad volcanic cannon (1)

Twin volcanic cannon (2)

Length - 30 meters

Pilot becomes the ship

 

 

 

Shadow Droid

 

 

 

Laser cannons (2)

Ion cannon (1)

Repeating blaster cannon (1)

Electromagnetic pulse gun (1)

Concussion missile launcher (1)

Proton torpedo launcher (1)

Length - 6 meters

Stealth Coating

Every pilot is an Imperial Ace augmented by cybernetics and the dark side

 

 

Elite Comparison

 

 

I can not think of anyway that the assault ship surpasses the Shadow droid. Its armament is lighter, it is x5 larger, it is not as agile, it is likely slower, and the Shadow droid is very hard to detect due to the coating. I have to give the edge to the Shadow droid.

 

 

Vindicator vs Miid Ro’ik Comparison

 

 

Essentially a multirole heavy cruiser against something very similar to a Imperial MK-II. Going along that thinking, then while the Vindicator loses in a 1 vs 1 quite obviously, it out numbers the Miid x5. While 1 Vindicator would lose to a Imperial MK-II, 5 would most certainly over whelm it. Edge Vindicators.

 

 

 

Strike Class and Tartan Class vs A-vek liluunu Comparison

 

 

Good ship to ship combined with heavy anti-fighter vs a carrier with most of its weaponry equal to that of a light turbolaser. Every advantage favors the IDD here, because despite the sheer fighter compliment advantage, the Tartan corvettes would be able to easily shield the Strikes as they take out the carriers themselves. Granted, this is only assuming the two pieces are going against each other, and out of fleet. In fleet, it still goes to the IDD due to the tartans being able to support the fleet and win fighter superiority for the battle.

 

 

Vengeance

 

 

 

12 heavy turbolaser turrets

9 triple turbolaser cannons

Unconfirmed lighter weaponry across hull

Heavy armor

Very strong shields

(Lacks anti-star fighter)

weak to fighter swarm

was built specifically to decimate smaller vessels if it was protected from star fighters

 

 

Legacy of Terror

 

 

 

Thin weapon spread (spread across all of its sides) *but each weapon is extremely heavy* (Lacks anti-star fighter)

Strong concentrated defenses, begins failing if it is attacked from multiple directions

4x the size of the Vengeance

Heavy Defense with little movement, moderate defense with moderate movement, or little defense with heavy movement, due to sharing the same component

Weak to fighter swarm

Heaviest hitter in the entire Kaggath

 

 

Flagship Comparison

 

 

The edge is pretty clearly in the favor of the Legacy of Terror. However, it is good to note that due to its deficiencies that the I.D.D. could manage to overwhelm it simply by attacking from multiple sides with its capital ships as well as its fighters/bombers/elites. While its weapons are quite heavy, so is the enemy fleets point defenses, which just might allow them to deflect or at least stop a portion of the shots that the Legacy of Terror is spewing at the enemy fleet. Despite this, in a 1 vs 1, the Legacy of Terror still takes the cake. Edge Legacy of Terror.

 

 

Space Leadership:

 

Admiral Trench

 

 

We should keep in mind that Trench is my Admiral, and the only notable feat brought up for Lomi Plo is that she knows how to smuggle things aboard when they thought they were in peace, for a surprise attack during the war... No prep time, and no such advantage. Therefore, I believe Trench will be able to find someway to victory.

 

One thing to note considering the Admiral, is that he studies his opponents, their past feats, their tendencies, and ect before, during, and after the battle. He is no slouch when it comes to studying his opposition. Something tells me this guy with his many eyes might just spot the fact that the larger ships defenses are concentrated when defending, and that every now and then a stray shot away from where it is being concentrated manages to get through. If he sees this during the battle, it is quite likely that he will act on it and flank the enemy vessels with his Superior numbers, as well as fighter compliment. If we are correct in our assumptions concerning concentrated fire vs spread fire on the Vong, then is likely that even the Legacy of Torment would not be immune.

 

 

Lomi Plo

 

 

More known for her large scale deceptions and ability to be ready for situations that she sets her opponents up to fall for. However, without prep time or the pretense of peace before hand, it is unlikely she could pull off her most known feat of stowing Kilik's aboard enemy vessels before the war has begun. Despite this, she did fair admirably in the Dark Nest War, but the duration of the war was relatively short and she was defeated in short order once her pre-planned traps had already been set. She often tended to retreat when the odds did not favor her in combat.

 

 

Space Overall Opinion

 

 

All of this together leads me to believe that the IDD fleet with be victorious, but only after having suffered heavy casualties. With the help of Trench, I am sure the IDD will spot, and exploit, the weaknesses of the Vong vessels as well as be able to have enough ships of their own left for when it is time to take down the Legacy of Torment, by exploiting the flanking weakness as well as the lack of any anti-star fighter defense. It would be even closer however if the IDD did not have such effective point defenses and anti-star fighter defenses, but with those, it pushes it closer in my honest opinion.

 

 

Overall I feel that these are fair comparisons, though others are free to add their own input.

 

Side Note: I do believe this has "driven it home" Aurbere.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Silenceo

[Wolfninjajedi]

Beni in regards to the IDD fleet, do they have Stormtroopers defending the capital ships? Or would it be Dark Troopers defending the ships? Or both?

[Beniboybling]

Beni in regards to the IDD fleet, do they have Stormtroopers defending the capital ships? Or would it be Dark Troopers defending the ships? Or both?

Seems fair to allow along with naval officers the folks who guarded the ship. So yes a small platoon of stormtroopers, Dark Troopers are also possible but they'd have to be fielded for the Droid Divisions Dark Trooper pool.

 

EDIT: So marines, in this case Imperial Marines.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

So....what else should we go over concerning space?

I think overall tactics and strategies need to be discussed i.e. how everything comes together.

 

And how effective said tactics will be. So yeah, quite a bit to discuss before I call this.

[LadyKulvax]

Admiral Trench can make this simple, costly but simple, he prods the enemy fleet not really attacking, watching his opposite's reactions, Lomi Plo is going to do exactly what she always does, plays her cards too early and then Trench just uses every single weakness the enemy fleet has, swarm the light capital ships to death with the extra fighter pool whilst dominating the fighter superiority.

 

Unfortunately I think Lomi is going to play this way too defensively, she'll concentrate her fighter screens on the LoT to defend it, leaving the excess to defend the heavy caps and therefor foregoing the defense of her smaller cap ships, the LoT is her baby and she'll cradle it as much as possible, at the detriment of the rest of her fleet.

 

She knows if she doesn't cover the LoT well enough it gets swarmed to death, it's win/win for Trench, he'll probably lose his entire fighter complement doing so but smashing her fighter complement and her light capital ships whilst slightly damaging the heavies is exactly what he needs, then his own capital ships move in, spread as thinly as possible and tear down the remaining heavies, then bring all firepower to bear on the LoT.

 

He will lose most of his fleet but she will lose all of her's.

 

This assumes she doesn't retreat but even if she does, hunting her down with those doubly powerful hyperdrives will be easy.

 

Probably a better strategy out there but it's what comes to mind.

Edited July 18, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

Silenceo, the Empire of Plague doesn't need hangars to board your ship. They have Yorik-tremas - these can burrow right through your hull and deploy droops, many boarding craft possessed this capability.

 

1 Yorik Trema can field 36 troopers, so they won't be deploying in "relatively small numbers" if 3 or 4 manage to attach.

 

I made the point a while back that if the Empire managed to roll over your vessels they could drop these creatures where you would be unable to fire, or otherwise protect them with fighter screens, so you may want to account for that.

 

EDIT: Also the one issue I see with your tactic towards killing the infected is that they are very resilient. As Warren said in her opening post I71A zombies can only be killed by: grinding up the body, lightsabers, crushing, flamethrowers, explosives, vaporization, Force Lightning, and destroying the brain. And the green slime that coats those infected by the Gobindi Virus is impervious to blaster fire. The viruses are also "sentient" and tactile in infecting others.

 

Basically mowing them down with blaster really isn't going to cut it, which could prove a big issue.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

Silenceo, the Empire of Plague doesn't hangars to board your ship. They have Yorik-tremas - these can burrow right through your hull and deploy droops, many boarding craft possessed this capability.

 

I made the point a while back that if the Empire managed to roll over your vessels they could drop these creatures where you would be unable to fire, or otherwise protect them with fighter screens, so you may want to account for that.

THey have those do they?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7536817&postcount=1

 

 

Where does it list that, or are we now allowed fighters and other such militarty ship compliments that we didnt specify?

 

I understand UNARMED. UNARMORED shuttles... but something like that is clearly armed, and armored.... It would be the equivlant of a Gunship.... I mean if we want to give those to the Vong ships then we need to start giving Silenceo http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ye-4_gunship In addition to his fighters or maybe even http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alpha-class_Xg-1_Star_Wing or http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Delta-class_DX-9_stormtrooper_transport or http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gamma-class_assault_shuttle I mean these are your armed Gunships that HE doesnt have listed its no different then giving the Vong combat ships they dont have listed.