Deewe Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 You keep saying things like this but do you even have any actual real world experience in coding? Google Virtools 2.1 as an appetizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Google Virtools 2.1 as an appetizer. Sounds like a vague dodge to avoid admitting you've never developed commercial software. It certainly is not a statement that you've done anything more than perhaps created 3D content with Virtools, which is not real software development. I played with NWN content creation stuff once, but even though you could write macros and spec state machines, that's not commercial software development. And it pales compared to the complexity of an MMO. Edited July 19, 2014 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I had to do coding in collage which isn't commercial dev but we used some of the same tools. After having gone though that course I came away with two things. 1: A Deep respect for anyone who can do that for a living 2: A deep hatred for coding in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RbAKAMalachi Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 if your answer is to restrict F2P and preferred from utilizing the "credit storage" of the legacy storage, then what about that subscriber who decides to drop to preferred? Does he lose access to those credits he may have in legacy storage since he would no longer be able to utilize the credit storage of the legacy storage? Yes he now can no longer access those credits through legacy storage. He can however pay a nominal fee through the cartel market to get a portion of those credits in incriments 50K, 150K, and 600K like with the escrow system already in place for free to play and preferred players. That's one possible way to go about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I'm confused as to whether you are advocating that legacy storage be subscriber only or that putting credits in legacy storage be subscriber only. If the former, I doubt that legacy storage will be subscriber only. If the latter, what happens when a subscriber who has 10 million credits in legacy storage and decides to go preferred? Does he lose access to all the credits he put in legacy storage? I also would have liked to see that ability to put credits in legacy storage, but I also understand that there may have been valid reasons not to allow credits in legacy storage. I understand that it might be more difficult to code than some people seem to think it would be. non of those questions are remotely difficult, as they deal with them whenever a subscriber goes preferred already. and yes, they could easily have made credit storage subscriber only. I was programming more difficult variables using fortran on punched cards back in 1982. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) I had to do coding in collage which isn't commercial dev but we used some of the same tools. After having gone though that course I came away with two things. 1: A Deep respect for anyone who can do that for a living 2: A deep hatred for coding in general Well to be honest for some reasons you might not want to work into making games because: You work up to 60 even 80 hours a week for months during closing only being paid like 40ish hours (eventually more if you bj your boss) You'd eventually get a bonus that won't even pay the spent hours. As a coder you are too often stuck with totally unfeasible requests , be it due to time or engine constraints. Then far from seldom you are also stuck with clueless producers or lead designers. IMO being the worst part. Still bringing a game up to the gold version, whatever good, is an achievement to be proud of and something you can show off to your kids. But don't do it first for the $$$, do it as a passion. Edited July 19, 2014 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) non of those questions are remotely difficult, as they deal with them whenever a subscriber goes preferred already. and yes, they could easily have made credit storage subscriber only. I was programming more difficult variables using fortran on punched cards back in 1982. Never touched that, started with basic then assembler in 1984, 65c02 FTW but Fortran I bow to that! Edited July 19, 2014 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 F2P have a cap of 250K per character. They have 2 characters slots available and can have an additional 10 slots, for a total of 12. That would be up to 3 million credits total. Yet, you want to cap them at 300,000? How do you determine the "total credit cap"? Do you say that all F2P are capped at 500K, regardless of he number of character slots they have? Do you look at each account individually and set the "total credit cap" to the 250K multiplied by the number of character slots, which would require MUCH different coding and would, IMO, be much more difficult to code. Do you count credits in legacy storage against the "total credit cap" or is each character still able to hold 250K in addition to what is the legacy storage? How do you keep the restriction against directly sending credits to your alt in place? If F2P player A can put credits in the legacy storage with his main and withdraw them with his alt, that would effectively circumvent the credit mailing restrictions that apply to F2P and preferred. IF F2P then legbank=0 if sub then legbank=1 wow..difficult make it if you unsub any credits over the limit auto deposit in the first character to log on. then escrow anything over the limit...no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 if your answer is to restrict F2P and preferred from utilizing the "credit storage" of the legacy storage, then what about that subscriber who decides to drop to preferred? Does he lose access to those credits he may have in legacy storage since he would no longer be able to utilize the credit storage of the legacy storage? Yes he now can no longer access those credits through legacy storage. He can however pay a nominal fee through the cartel market to get a portion of those credits in incriments 50K, 150K, and 600K like with the escrow system already in place for free to play and preferred players. That's one possible way to go about it Wrong. If you are going to restrict F2P and preferred from utilizing the credit storage of the legacy storage, then he cannot even use escrows to gain access to those credits because he cannot utilize the credit storage function of legacy storage, which would include withdrawals. If you are going to say that a preferred can withdraw credits from legacy storage (even if it is with somethign similar to the credit escrow) but not deposit, then how do you prevent the circumvention of the no mailing credits restriction? If a subscriber places credits in legacy storage with his main and then drops to preferred, how do you prevent him from withdrawing credits with his alt, thus circumventing the no direct transfer of credits to alts restriction? Are you proposing that BW keep such minute database entries as to determine how much each character that every player has deposits into legacy storage so that they can then limit the amount of credits each character can remove? I'm just trying to point out that it is nowhere as easy as many would like to believe it is to code in credit storage without affecting many other facets of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 All I pointed out was your erroneous statement that there had been no further development of Bind-to-Legacy gear. There has been. If adding in a few other items is your idea of 'development' then perhaps you shouldn't be makin statements like I suspect you know nothing about software development. towards other people hmm? To me developing things involves taking them further than they were to begin with, adding in more of the same != development. It is more a continuation of the same system or at best an expansion of it. if your answer is to restrict F2P and preferred from utilizing the "credit storage" of the legacy storage, then what about that subscriber who decides to drop to preferred? Does he lose access to those credits he may have in legacy storage since he would no longer be able to utilize the credit storage of the legacy storage? Trying to recall the last time I went preferred status but does it not all go to escrow above and beyond what you can hold at one time? So you drop sub, all your legacy credits go to escrow to which you can withdraw from unlocks. It would just need ot be made crystal clear that this is what happens prior to the sub expiring so the sub can send out any credits to his toons before he drops sub and it all goes to escrow. To this issue on a whole it is a shame that there iwll be no legacy bank to speak of but it is my opinion the whole concept of legacy storage etc. is more of an after thought to the entire stronghold process. Illustrated by this example and also by the sort of vagueness around if bound items were going to be allowed into legacy storage ... the fact they weren't sure when it was first raised and so close to launch does tend to lead me to believe they may have not really put much focus in to this aspect of the strongholds ( storage ). It may very well be showing to be more popular than they first though as shown by the enthusiasm and debate on the issues on these forums though it could also be said those participating in said debates are the vocal minority. Their core demographic are probably just happy to get a stronghold they can play dress up with and if they get some extra storage as a boost all the more power to them. In the end they're not charging me for any of this and I'm happy playing the game now as it is so if I get a bit more then sweet ( I'm more interested in the crafting side of strongholds personally and what effect it will have on the GTN market ) other than that all we can do is discuss/debate/argue the points and maybe they'll be reading and develop content further accordingly ... or maybe they wont. *care*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RbAKAMalachi Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I don't advocate disabling legacy storage all together just the credit storage part for preferred and free to play. Like was mentioned earlier when you unsubscribe that credits in storage are now in escrow and anything over character limit must be put back into legacy credit storage prior to unsubscribing. Almost like before transferring characters to different servers you must clear your mail box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 To this issue on a whole it is a shame that there iwll be no legacy bank to speak of but it is my opinion the whole concept of legacy storage etc. is more of an after thought to the entire stronghold process. Illustrated by this example and also by the sort of vagueness around if bound items were going to be allowed into legacy storage ... the fact they weren't sure when it was first raised and so close to launch does tend to lead me to believe they may have not really put much focus in to this aspect of the strongholds ( storage ). It may very well be showing to be more popular than they first though as shown by the enthusiasm and debate on the issues on these forums though it could also be said those participating in said debates are the vocal minority. Their core demographic are probably just happy to get a stronghold they can play dress up with and if they get some extra storage as a boost all the more power to them. In the end they're not charging me for any of this and I'm happy playing the game now as it is so if I get a bit more then sweet ( I'm more interested in the crafting side of strongholds personally and what effect it will have on the GTN market ) other than that all we can do is discuss/debate/argue the points and maybe they'll be reading and develop content further accordingly ... or maybe they wont. *care*. Very well put and totally agree with all the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 non of those questions are remotely difficult, as they deal with them whenever a subscriber goes preferred already. and yes, they could easily have made credit storage subscriber only. I was programming more difficult variables using fortran on punched cards back in 1982. Yes, they could make legacy storage subscriber only. I never said they couldn't, only that I doubted that they would. Do you see all the threads that already exist complaining that the restrictions on F2P and preferred are too strict and clamoring for fewer restrictions? Do you have any idea how fast these forums would blow up if they made legacy storage subscriber only? Yes, they deal with players going from subscriber to preferred every day now, but I think you vastly underestimate the difference between a player going from subscriber to preferred now versus the difference if they allow credits to be placed into legacy storage. Since you would have us believe it is sooooo easy, then show us the viable working code to allow legacy storage to store credits while maintaining ALL the restrictions that are currently in place with F2P and preferred players regarding credits. I won't be holding my breath for it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Since you would have us believe it is sooooo easy, then show us the viable working code to allow legacy storage to store credits while maintaining ALL the restrictions that are currently in place with F2P and preferred players regarding credits. I won't be holding my breath for it, though. What's the point? It can be done and we all know it's not that complex. It's fine to defend the devs and I know there are very nice and hard working people here. Still please don't try to make it appear that difficult. Edited July 19, 2014 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) On the subject of credits in Legacy Storage, can an advocate for it explain to me what the advantages would be? I'm trying to come up with a benefit that is more efficient than mailing your credits across your Legacy, but it actually seems like more work to me given the load time and the fact that you're only going to have a couple locations* with Legacy Storage available. Is it just a desire for consolidation? I'm genuinely curious. One stop access to funds for GTN use, maybe? Edited July 19, 2014 by Kunda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RbAKAMalachi Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I'm disappointed there's no credit storage with the legacy storage system. I don't think it's that easy to implement otherwise I'd be a programmer, but I do hope BW at least clarifies the decision not to have it. And hope that in the future they figure out a way to do it whether part of legacy storage or a different system altogether. But that is for them to figure out if they decide to do so as I am not on their pay roll. Overall I am very pleased with what I've seen and continue to see from them and will continue to sub for as long as my bank account allows. That is the last I'm going to say on the subject as I've been up for over 30 hours and need some sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RbAKAMalachi Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 On the subject of credits in Legacy Storage, can an advocate for it explain to me what the advantages would be? I'm trying to come up with a benefit that is more efficient than mailing your credits across your Legacy, but it actually seems like more work to me given the load time and the fact that you're only going to have on location with Legacy Storage available. Is it just a desire for consolidation? I'm genuinely curious. One stop access to funds for GTN use, maybe? Okay I lied it wasn't the last thing I was going to say on the subject in my last post. For me it is simply a matter of ease of access. I have a great many character with different amounts of creds to each character. I simply want to place all my credits in one place so I'm not constantly logging in and out of character mailing credits to my main or whomever I happen to be playing the most at that time. Simply put I'm an altaholic with a very short attention span when it comes to playing any one character for a long period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I think legacy bank be somewhat seperate from legacy storage thus subscriber only get legacy bank for the reasons they already have around F2P/Preferred players not gaining to many credits. From there you just use the current escrow system when someone drops off subscriber. That is all credits go to escrow from legacy bank. F2P/Preferred don't lose out and can't get around current limits and still get the new legacy storage feature - everyone is happy. I think that's perfectly fair and without being an enterprise level coder myself ( I would sit around beginner me thinks ) I would assume it's not overly hard to code since they alreaidy ahve the ability to make "Legacy something" i.e. the storage and also they already move credits to escrow. Also can we PLEASE give up with this "how would you know how hard it is to code, you're no coder" crap. That's got to be one the lamest cop outs to arguments/discussions you get on the web. If we wanted to troll we could go around saying that to pretty much everyones suggestion for anything. Yes we don't neccessarily know how hard it may be to code but then neither do the people saying it may be too hard - it's all moot either way. It's never TOO hard it's whether or not they can be bothered to do it for whatever return it may gain the company I would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 For me it is simply a matter of ease of access. I have a great many character with different amounts of creds to each character. I simply want to place all my credits in one place so I'm not constantly logging in and out of character mailing credits to my main or whomever I happen to be playing the most at that time. Simply put I'm an altaholic with a very short attention span when it comes to playing any one character for a long period of time. That is a fair point. What I'm suggesting however is that having all of your credits in Legacy Storage is actually going to be more time consuming because you'll be traveling to your stronghold to access your Legacy Storage. Unless you're literally stating that every time you "switch mains" you log into every character and dump all of your credits across your legacy onto that main. I can't think of a way in which the mail system isn't faster right now. Maybe I don't utilize the GTN or other credit sinks often enough to come up with an answer. Hmph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVengeant Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) "You cannot place credits in legacy storage". So, now essentially all it is for is putting matts in. Whoopdy freakin do. What a freakin JOKE. You can't do ANY BOP gear, even as a sub, and now no credits. Bioware really dropped the ball on this one. Pretty let down on how their Legacy Vault works. Very lackluster. How about throwing SUBSCRIBERS the ability to put credits in? You know, the people paying your frakin bills? How about letting subscriber pay a fee for putting a BOP piece into Legacy Storage so it can be USED and not WASTED on a toon that can't use it???? Ya, those 180 drops you got of earpiece, implants, and relics....the ones just setting there unable to be used because of a stupid restriction. Edited July 19, 2014 by DarthVengeant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 What's the point? It can be done and we all know it's not that complex. It's fine to defend the devs and I know there are very nice and hard working people here. Still please don't try to make it appear that difficult. As opposed to you claiming that it is easy, but providing no proof whatsoever to back up your claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) "You cannot place credits in legacy storage". EDIT: Nevermind, found a poster reporting from the Streamed event. Edited July 19, 2014 by thewitchdoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 On the subject of credits in Legacy Storage, can an advocate for it explain to me what the advantages would be? I'm trying to come up with a benefit that is more efficient than mailing your credits across your Legacy, but it actually seems like more work to me given the load time and the fact that you're only going to have a couple locations* with Legacy Storage available. Is it just a desire for consolidation? I'm genuinely curious. One stop access to funds for GTN use, maybe? I personally would have liked to see it just for consolidation. I have many characters with varying amounts of credits. If I could leave say 50K credits on each character, but put the bulk of my credits into legacy storage, I would: A) have a better idea as to my total wealth B) find it easier to get needed credits to whichever character needed them I am a little disappointed by the devs' decision, although I can see several possible and very plausible, valid reasons why that particular decision was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 As opposed to you claiming that it is easy, but providing no proof whatsoever to back up your claim? It is following the rules in Forum Fighting 101, as stated by Professor Sun Tzu-Wong: 'What I think the developers should do is easy to code; that which my opponents want is too complex to code.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Confirmed on stream, no credits in Legacy Storage. Oh. Well, that's a bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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