Rule of Two Sith comparison....

[that_Spartan_IV]

I had a question regarding Sith comparison.

 

So almost everyone here knows about Darth Bane and the Rule of Two that reformed the Sith etc. etc.

If not go buy the Darth Bane books. They're very good.

 

From all the Sith we've seen from the Rule of Two, they seem like every single one can take on the best of the Jedi Order, and Darth Bane even said "The Force is venom, not fire. When you pour it in separate cups it loses it's potency, but when it's all in one cup it's at its deadliest."-with that quote I assume he means less cups=less Sith.

 

So I have a question: if a Sith is from the Rule of Two line does that make him deadlier than Old Republic Sith?

 

Now really think about it, we see Sith in this game trying to take on ONE trooper in the cutscene on Alderaan and he just knocks them away like nothing.

 

This is a Republic Trooper. They're Sith. They have lightsabers. This shows that these Sith are less effective than my ex-wife at fighting. They RAN UP TO A TROOPER and then he knocks them out of the way like they're NOTHING.

 

But then Darth Malgus can easily contend against plenty of the Rule of Two Sith (Excluding Darth Sidious/Palpatine/the Emperor/"No, NO YOU WILL DIE! *LIGHTNIIIING*

 

So if the notion that the Force is venom is true, then why is Darth Malgus so powerful? Wouldn't the amount of Sith mean that he'd be weaker? How does this system work? What about Darth Vitiate, he's pretty powerful?

 

I've wondered about this so much after having read the Darth Bane trilogy that my brain now looks like this http://www.chubbsnhoover.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CIMG5706.jpg

Edited July 14, 2014 by that_Spartan_IV

[tunewalker]

I had a question regarding Sith comparison.

 

So almost everyone here knows about Darth Bane and the Rule of Two that reformed the Sith etc. etc.

If not go buy the Darth Bane books. They're very good.

 

From all the Sith we've seen from the Rule of Two, they seem like every single one can take on the best of the Jedi Order, and Darth Bane even said "The Force is venom, not fire. When you pour it in separate cups it loses it's potency, but when it's all in one cup it's at its deadliest."-with that quote I assume he means less cups=less Sith.

 

So I have a question: if a Sith is from the Rule of Two line does that make him deadlier?

 

Now really think about it, we see Sith in this game trying to take on ONE trooper in the cutscene on Alderaan and he just knocks them away like nothing.

 

This is a Republic Trooper. They're Sith. They have lightsabers. This shows that these Sith are less effective than my ex-wife at fighting. They RAN UP TO A TROOPER and then he knocks them out of the way like they're NOTHING.

 

But then Darth Malgus can easily contend against plenty of the Rule of Two Sith (Excluding Darth Sidious/Palpatine/the Emperor/"No, NO YOU WILL DIE! *LIGHTNIIIING*

 

So if the notion that the Force is venom is true, then why is Darth Malgus so powerful? Wouldn't the amount of Sith mean that he'd be weaker? How does this system work? What about Darth Vitiate, he's pretty powerful?

 

I've wondered about this so much after having read the Darth Bane trilogy that my brain now looks like this http://www.chubbsnhoover.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CIMG5706.jpg

 

 

The Fact is Malgus cant contend with most of the Rule of 2 sith as well as people think he can.

 

Malgus, and a few in the TOR era of sith ARE strong, but unltimately at least 1 member of the Rule of 2 is stronger. likely 2 As I believe Vitiate is the only one stronger then Plageus, and the only other one I believe we our "most powerful thread" put up there with sith were Caedus (only 2 sith at time time) Plaegus a rule of 2 sith and Exar Kun Again only 2 sith......

 

Some of the most powerful sith have come at times when there were not many sith active in the galaxy.

 

Thought there are exceptions such as Malgus that you noted or even Bane himself, but they are not the rule. While during the Rule of 2, every sith in it is a contestant for one of the most powerful Force users of their time and potentially one of the most powerful sith in history. There is no "weak" member among the Rule of 2.

 

 

Edit: think of it like sometimes a cup is in a better position for the venom to be pored into it, thus getting a bit more then the others.

Edited July 14, 2014 by tunewalker

[that_Spartan_IV]

The Fact is Malgus cant contend with most of the Rule of 2 sith as well as people think he can.

 

Malgus, and a few in the TOR era of sith ARE strong, but unltimately at least 1 member of the Rule of 2 is stronger. likely 2 As I believe Vitiate is the only one stronger then Plageus, and the only other one I believe we our "most powerful thread" put up there with sith were Caedus (only 2 sith at time time) Plaegus a rule of 2 sith and Exar Kun Again only 2 sith......

 

Some of the most powerful sith have come at times when there were not many sith active in the galaxy.

 

Thought there are exceptions such as Malgus that you noted or even Bane himself, but they are not the rule. While during the Rule of 2, every sith in it is a contestant for one of the most powerful Force users of their time and potentially one of the most powerful sith in history. There is no "weak" member among the Rule of 2.

 

 

Edit: think of it like sometimes a cup is in a better position for the venom to be pored into it, thus getting a bit more then the others.

 

 

But just because there's a lot of Sith doesn't mean they have to be weak. Look at Darth Krayt and his Sith. Darth Krayt was incredibly powerful, AND Darth Wyyyrlok III, and to a lesser extent Darth Talon.

[tunewalker]

But just because there's a lot of Sith doesn't mean they have to be weak. Look at Darth Krayt and his Sith. Darth Krayt was incredibly powerful, AND Darth Wyyyrlok III, and to a lesser extent Darth Talon.

 

Correct. Krayt institued the Rule of One..... The point is not everyone underneath them were powerful as well. Nor were any of them capable of contending with the HIGHEST members of the Rule of two.

 

They are the exceptions that prove the rule so to speak.

[Aurbere]

The difficulty of this is that we lack a great deal of information on most of the Sith in the Rule of Two.

[that_Spartan_IV]

The difficulty of this is that we lack a great deal of information on most of the Sith in the Rule of Two.

 

True, everyone holds the Rule of Two Sith in a god-like status only because of what we've seen in the movies.

 

What about the Emperor's Wrath from SWTOR? What about Malgus? What about Vitiate? What about Krayt? What about Kas'im? What about FAFILGJNGai;jgrnag

[Aurbere]

True, everyone holds the Rule of Two Sith in a god-like status only because of what we've seen in the movies.

 

What about the Emperor's Wrath from SWTOR? What about Malgus? What about Vitiate? What about Krayt? What about Kas'im? What about FAFILGJNGai;jgrnag

 

It depends on who you're comparing them to. The beginning with Bane and Zannah, or the end with Plagueis and Sidious?

[that_Spartan_IV]

It depends on who you're comparing them to. The beginning with Bane and Zannah, or the end with Plagueis and Sidious?

 

It just seems like the Sith from the Old Republic sucked a little TOO hard. Re-watch that cutscene on Alderaan. The Sith there are just....embarressing except for Malgus.

 

But then you go the Rule of Two and almost all of them are insanely powerful.

 

BUT then if the Force is like venom how come Yoda and Sidious and Mace and Anakin and Plagueis and Obi-Wan and all of them exist at the same time?

 

I'm so confused.

[tunewalker]

It just seems like the Sith from the Old Republic sucked a little TOO hard. Re-watch that cutscene on Alderaan. The Sith there are just....embarressing except for Malgus.

 

But then you go the Rule of Two and almost all of them are insanely powerful.

 

BUT then if the Force is like venom how come Yoda and Sidious and Mace and Anakin and Plagueis and Obi-Wan and all of them exist at the same time?

 

I'm so confused.

 

Replace "The Force" with "the Dark Side" you will be less confused

[that_Spartan_IV]

Replace "The Force" with "the Dark Side" you will be less confused

 

But why is it only restricted to the Dark Side?

[Wolfninjajedi]

It just seems like the Sith from the Old Republic sucked a little TOO hard. Re-watch that cutscene on Alderaan. The Sith there are just....embarressing except for Malgus.

 

But then you go the Rule of Two and almost all of them are insanely powerful.

 

BUT then if the Force is like venom how come Yoda and Sidious and Mace and Anakin and Plagueis and Obi-Wan and all of them exist at the same time?

 

I'm so confused.

 

It's because the Sith in the Hope trailer were just a bunch of fodder no name guys that can be killed by blaster fire and so on. Except for Malgus, though he kinda acted stupid there too.

 

That's really what it amounts to, just because someone can wield a lightsaber doesn't make them any better if they run at someone like a moron.

 

Heck one of the Sith during the charge got a full face of rifle stock from a no named Republic trooper and knocked flat on his ***.

 

That trailer also did have some PIS to it with Jace taking on Malgus.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

But why is it only restricted to the Dark Side?

 

Because Dark siders back stab each other, Lightsiders dont. The darkside is Corrosive, the Light is not.

[that_Spartan_IV]

Because Dark siders back stab each other, Lightsiders dont. The darkside is Corrosive, the Light is not.

 

When are we told that?

 

You see what I mean, this being so freaking confusing? Why are the Old Republic Sith so freaking terrible?

[tunewalker]

When are we told that?

 

You see what I mean, this being so freaking confusing? Why are the Old Republic Sith so freaking terrible?

 

How many star wars books have you read? Games have you played? Movies have you seen?

 

Watch "return" we see the back stabbing nature right there. Play through the sith story lines again its there.

 

If you have read the Jedi Academy trilogy we see the destructive Nature of the dark side.

 

 

"Many found the dark side to be addictive, unable to resist its pull the more they were subjected to it. Even as their physical bodies slowly decayed," - Wookie on The Nature of the Dark side

 

"Once you start down the Dark path Forever will it dominate your destiny, CONSUME YOU it will as it did Obi-wan's apprentive" -Yoda

 

In the movie Novels, specifically in Return of the Jedi when Luke becomes close to the dark side and nearly falls we see it again.

 

We have been told this by words and by ACTIONS through out Star Wars Lore since the BEGGINING of Star Wars history, Since episode 4-6 that this is the case.

 

 

Edit: another example

 

"Will I eventually be physically transformed?"

"Into some aged, pale-skinned, raspy-voiced, yellow-eyed monster, you mean. Such as the one you see before you. Surely you are acquainted with the lore: King Ommin of Onderon, Darths Sion and Nihilus. But whether it will happen to you, I can't say. Know this, though, Sidious, that the power of the dark side does not debilitate the practitioner so much as it debilitates those who lack it. The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would ever wish to be cured of."

―Darths Sidious and Plagueis discuss the physical signs of dark side immersion.[src]

 

 

Edit 2: and another

 

"It was possible for these corrupting powers to be potent enough to affect those who were simply in close proximity to a nexus of dark side energy.[34] Colonel Tobin of Onderon, a man who had no known sensitivity to the Force, was so affected by the presence of Darth Nihilus and the Ravager that he fell into madness and exhibited the appearance of one who had immersed themselves in the dark side" -again from Wookie relating to the events of Kotor 2.

Edited July 14, 2014 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

When are we told that?

 

You see what I mean, this being so freaking confusing? Why are the Old Republic Sith so freaking terrible?

 

If you're referring to the faceless guys in the Hope trailer, that's what they were there for. They were suppose to show up, look pretty and put up some kinda fight, but not be so powerful as to make it completely one sided.

 

The faceless Sith are really nothing more than guys who can charge at others with lightsabers, but can still be put down via blaster fire or what have you.

 

They aren't suppose to be powerful.

 

The Sith that are named in the timeline are certainly not terrible(at least by comparison of the faceless). The faceless guys are however.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[that_Spartan_IV]

How many star wars books have you read? Games have you played? Movies have you seen?

 

Watch "return" we see the back stabbing nature right there. Play through the sith story lines again its there.

 

If you have read the Jedi Academy trilogy we see the destructive Nature of the dark side.

 

 

"Many found the dark side to be addictive, unable to resist its pull the more they were subjected to it. Even as their physical bodies slowly decayed," - Wookie on The Nature of the Dark side

 

"Once you start down the Dark path Forever will it dominate your destiny, CONSUME YOU it will as it did Obi-wan's apprentive" -Yoda

 

In the movie Novels, specifically in Return of the Jedi when Luke becomes close to the dark side and nearly falls we see it again.

 

We have been told this words and by ACTIONS through out Star Wars Lore since the BEGGINING of Star Wars history, Since episode 4-6 that this is the case.

 

 

Edit: another example

 

"Will I eventually be physically transformed?"

"Into some aged, pale-skinned, raspy-voiced, yellow-eyed monster, you mean. Such as the one you see before you. Surely you are acquainted with the lore: King Ommin of Onderon, Darths Sion and Nihilus. But whether it will happen to you, I can't say. Know this, though, Sidious, that the power of the dark side does not debilitate the practitioner so much as it debilitates those who lack it. The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would ever wish to be cured of."

―Darths Sidious and Plagueis discuss the physical signs of dark side immersion.[src]

 

 

Edit 2: and another

 

"It was possible for these corrupting powers to be potent enough to affect those who were simply in close proximity to a nexus of dark side energy.[34] Colonel Tobin of Onderon, a man who had no known sensitivity to the Force, was so affected by the presence of Darth Nihilus and the Ravager that he fell into madness and exhibited the appearance of one who had immersed themselves in the dark side" -again from Wookie relating to the events of Kotor 2.

 

So, so lesser numbers automatically means better Sith? See I would've accepted more training as making a more powerful Sith and it not having anything to do with numbers, but it just seems ridiculous and makes me even MORE confused.

[tunewalker]

So, so lesser numbers automatically means better Sith? See I would've accepted more training as making a more powerful Sith and it not having anything to do with numbers, but it just seems ridiculous and makes me even MORE confused.

 

Your failing to grasp the full meaning.... There will be potentially strong sith that never reach that potential because they never become fully trained because some one who has less potential but more training saw them as a threat and decided to kill them before they could usurp their power.

 

The more sith, the more likely this to happen, while a few exceptions can rise through the ranks and gain power with out being curtailed completely. They are the exception, not the rule. The dark Side corrupts not just the body but the mind.

 

Episode III Anakin choking his OWN WIFE an act he would never have even thought about before his fall. They become more paranoid and more destructive..... even to allies. THAT nature is why the more sith their are the less likely for one to flurish into strength, and THAT is why ultimately the group is weakened as a whole. THAT is the basis of the Rule of Two.

 

Edit: think of the guy your character passed up in the Inquistor story at the start. "in any other group he would have excelled" what would he have been had he not been curtailed right then and there. Is it possible that his arrogance would have been stopped and thus he would have studied harder and better and eventually found a path to power and refinement far above others.... Maybe..... maybe not..... but we will never know because he was curtailed right there. How many thousands were like him, how many were like the inquisitor himself, but didnt get guidance from some sith spirit ancestor and were cut down before their full strength.... Its every where. In between the pages, in between the lines some explicitly said some implied, this is the Nature of the Dark side.

 

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUKGTkiWik :58-1:05 lol

Edited July 14, 2014 by tunewalker

[that_Spartan_IV]

Your failing to grasp the full meaning.... There will be potentially strong sith that never reach that potential because they never become fully trained because some one who has less potential but more training saw them as a threat and decided to kill them before they could usurp their power.

 

The more sith, the more likely this to happen, while a few exceptions can rise through the ranks and gain power with out being curtailed completely. They are the exception, not the rule. The dark Side corrupts not just the body but the mind.

 

Episode III Anakin choking his OWN WIFE an act he would never have even thought about before his fall. They become more paranoid and more destructive..... even to allies. THAT nature is why the more sith their are the less likely for one to flurish into strength, and THAT is why ultimately the group is weakened as a whole. THAT is the basis of the Rule of Two.

 

Edit: think of the guy your character passed up in the Inquistor story at the start. "in any other group he would have excelled" what would he have been had he not been curtailed right then and there. Is it possible that his arrogance would have been stopped and thus he would have studied harder and better and eventually found a path to power and refinement far above others.... Maybe..... maybe not..... but we will never know because he was curtailed right there. How many thousands were like him, how many were like the inquisitor himself, but didnt get guidance from some sith spirit ancestor and were cut down before their full strength.... Its every where. In between the pages, in between the lines some explicitly said some implied, this is the Nature of the Dark side.

 

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUKGTkiWik :58-1:05 lol

 

I see your point, but with this in mind I can't take any Sith in the game seriously now. I know they're weak, and therefore harder to really consider as Sith.

 

Makes the Sith in the Old Republic pathetic almost, including the Dark Council. I mean really, there has to be a small number of Sith for them to be powerful? It just seems.....dumb, and kinda ruins the Sith in the Old Republic for me.

 

Ah well, I'll just learn to deal with it. Thread can die now.

[JaKettMaxilles]

The rule of 2 pretty much guarantees both will be super strong in the force. When there's a ton of Sith running around, there might still only be 2 that are super strong. There might be 10. It's hard to say.

 

Bane's point (well, Revan's point that Bane implemented) was that the strongest of many Sith will be overthrown by weaker Sith. The Rule of 2 prevents that from happening, but also limits how many "super strong" Sith can be present at one time.

[tunewalker]

I see your point, but with this in mind I can't take any Sith in the game seriously now. I know they're weak, and therefore harder to really consider as Sith.

 

Makes the Sith in the Old Republic pathetic almost, including the Dark Council. I mean really, there has to be a small number of Sith for them to be powerful? It just seems.....dumb, and kinda ruins the Sith in the Old Republic for me.

 

Ah well, I'll just learn to deal with it. Thread can die now.

 

I think you missed the point again. There are EXCEPTION, that prove the rule the Inquisitor is another example again. He made the climb, he may have had help, but with that help he did reach the apex of those powers... as did a few others.

 

With enough people, there will inevitably be enough that climb that ladder of power, but they are the Exception that prove the rule.

 

Each individual MUST be judged on their own strengths and weaknesses. Their own adversaties.

[tunewalker]

The rule of 2 pretty much guarantees both will be super strong in the force. When there's a ton of Sith running around, there might still only be 2 that are super strong. There might be 10. It's hard to say.

 

Bane's point (well, Revan's point that Bane implemented) was that the strongest of many Sith will be overthrown by weaker Sith. The Rule of 2 prevents that from happening, but also limits how many "super strong" Sith can be present at one time.

 

This is correct, NEITHER ultimately limit the MAX strength of either group. It just happens that the Rule of 2 is largely seen as successful in the fact that MOST everyone accepts sidious as the most powerful sith.

[S_W_LeGenD]

I had a question regarding Sith comparison.

 

So almost everyone here knows about Darth Bane and the Rule of Two that reformed the Sith etc. etc.

If not go buy the Darth Bane books. They're very good.

 

From all the Sith we've seen from the Rule of Two, they seem like every single one can take on the best of the Jedi Order, and Darth Bane even said "The Force is venom, not fire. When you pour it in separate cups it loses it's potency, but when it's all in one cup it's at its deadliest."-with that quote I assume he means less cups=less Sith.

 

So I have a question: if a Sith is from the Rule of Two line does that make him deadlier than Old Republic Sith?

 

Now really think about it, we see Sith in this game trying to take on ONE trooper in the cutscene on Alderaan and he just knocks them away like nothing.

 

This is a Republic Trooper. They're Sith. They have lightsabers. This shows that these Sith are less effective than my ex-wife at fighting. They RAN UP TO A TROOPER and then he knocks them out of the way like they're NOTHING.

 

But then Darth Malgus can easily contend against plenty of the Rule of Two Sith (Excluding Darth Sidious/Palpatine/the Emperor/"No, NO YOU WILL DIE! *LIGHTNIIIING*

 

So if the notion that the Force is venom is true, then why is Darth Malgus so powerful? Wouldn't the amount of Sith mean that he'd be weaker? How does this system work? What about Darth Vitiate, he's pretty powerful?

 

I've wondered about this so much after having read the Darth Bane trilogy that my brain now looks like this http://www.chubbsnhoover.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CIMG5706.jpg

To answer your question: not necessarily.

 

Rule of Two lineage represents some of the highest quality Sith to have ever existed in history but they were not masters of everything, they still relied on ancient sources to hone their talents in the dark side, they innovated as well, but their feats and accomplishments have been matched in history.

 

During TOR era, thousands of Sith existed or more accurately co-existed. Among them, some were supremely powerful but some were not juggernauts which isn't surprising. Not everybody is strong in the Force. However, standards were high to become a Sith in the "reconstituted ancient Sith Empire," higher then they ever had been in history.

 

During the war, resources would be stretched and every able individual would be send to the battlefield, rotations would also occur. This is why you may notice some Sith in the battlefields who were not strong by Sith standards or fully trained in their discipline. This doesn't implies that strong Sith did not participated in battlefields, they did.

 

Darth Marr, as an example, collapsed/routed entire armies of the Republic with his powers and combat prowess, his battlefield feats became stuff of legends. Darth Decimus also had comparable performance. Both of these Sith Lords were members of the Dark Council of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire. In addition to these two, Darth Malgus was another prominent warrior on the frontlines, he also have singlehandedly routed enemy forces on multiple occasions.

 

If you are referring to the scenes depicted in SWTOR: HOPE official trailer, you should also know that you were looking at HAVOC SQUAD of Republic forces in action.

 

 

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

 

SINCE THEIR STUNNING VICTORY in the Battle of Alderaan, Havoc Squad has risen to prominence as the most renowned fighting team in the Republic military. The squad's operations and membership are classified, but there's hardly anyone in the Republic or the Empire who hasn't heard of them. And although its valiant members are often compared to the Jedi for their inspirational heroism, the hope that Havoc squad inspires is unique. These ordinary men and women prove that it doesn't take special powers to overcome impossible odds: just guts, skill, and determination.

 

 

However, those Sith (underlings) succeeded at killing some HAVOC SQUAD members as well, watch the official trailer carefully; both sides suffered casualties. In-fact, powerful Jedi such as Satele Shan and Aryn Leener helped the Republic forces to turn the tide of this battle.

 

And yes, Emperor Vitiate, is stupendously powerful practitioner of the dark side, touted as a god-like being and embodiment of the dark side itself. I suppose he doesn't even needs an introduction but if you want to learn more about him then check the link in my signature.

 

The Fact is Malgus cant contend with most of the Rule of 2 sith as well as people think he can.

Darth Malgus surely can! He have defeated some of the greatest Jedi in battles and he continuously grew in power, he had such potential in the Force. At one point, he contended for the position of Sith Emperor; he could not reach this level of prominence without having enormous strength to cope with arguably most competitive environment for Sith to have ever existed.

 

Malgus, and a few in the TOR era of sith ARE strong, but unltimately at least 1 member of the Rule of 2 is stronger. likely 2 As I believe Vitiate is the only one stronger then Plageus, and the only other one I believe we our "most powerful thread" put up there with sith were Caedus (only 2 sith at time time) Plaegus a rule of 2 sith and Exar Kun Again only 2 sith......

OP's point is not who is the most powerful Sith. Also, those lists are not infallible.

 

Some of the most powerful sith have come at times when there were not many sith active in the galaxy.

Agreed, however, the best of reconstituted ancient Sith Empire could be Emperors or rulers in other eras, if they had not co-existed with Emperor Vitiate.

 

Thought there are exceptions such as Malgus that you noted or even Bane himself, but they are not the rule. While during the Rule of 2, every sith in it is a contestant for one of the most powerful Force users of their time and potentially one of the most powerful sith in history. There is no "weak" member among the Rule of 2.

Correct

Edited July 16, 2014 by S_W_LeGenD

[LadyKulvax]

Bane's theory still holds up and is expanded upon by Darth Plagueis, if you would allow me:

 

Plagueis states the belief that the Dark Side held a greater sway over the galaxy in the Old Sith Wars and that over time the Dark Side waned considerably, it was easier to become strong in the Dark Side because the Dark Side itself had a large presence in the galaxy.

 

Lord Vitiate is not powerful through the natural means of having strong potential, he used a ritual to become as powerful as he did, Malgus and Marr are of the type of Sith that had dedicated their beliefs and views on the Dark Side so much that they achieved a sort of enlightened state if you will, however a massive chunk of the Sith Order was filled with chumps, the best Sith Warriors in the galaxy were picked and pulled down to 50 Sith Lords, Malgus found the rest too weak.

 

Rule of Two Sith however had all of the Dark Side in their hands, they were all powerhouses in their own way and it got to the point that the force went out of balance because the Dark Side had become so concentrate in just two beings, indeed when Plagueis expired, Sidious felt a sensation that told him he was the sole possessor of the Dark Side, it's full power was his alone, this culminated in him being the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, so strong that a body that was not his own original body would literally die because it couldn't handle his power.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Bane's theory still holds up and is expanded upon by Darth Plagueis, if you would allow me:

 

Plagueis states the belief that the Dark Side held a greater sway over the galaxy in the Old Sith Wars and that over time the Dark Side waned considerably, it was easier to become strong in the Dark Side because the Dark Side itself had a large presence in the galaxy.

Both Darth Bane and Darth Plagueis had valid observations, Sith did decrease in quality with passage of time and end result was Brotherhood of Darkness. Darth Bane began to utterly despise Brotherhood of Darkness after he began to dig ancient sources for knowledge and he eventually came to realization that Brotherhood of Darkness represented decay of Sith due to their weak philosophy and principles in comparison to ancients. Darth Bane noticed that a lone (ancient) Sith Lord, Darth Revan, possessed greater knowledge of dark side then entire Brotherhood of Darkness put together. And it is apparent from latest revelations that Darth Revan had many rivals in history, such was the quality of Sith in ancient times, specially in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire. This is why Darth Bane felt motivated to re-define the Sith by orchestrating the concept of Rule of Two, he figured that Sith would become powerful again with this method. He didn't had an Empire under his command so he regarded Rule of Two as safest bet.

 

Now, it is not necessary that every ancient Sith is supposed to be a juggernaut, this is why systems were in place; training centers (Sith Academies) to determine who were expendable and who were genuinely strong; Dark Council which ensured ascension of most powerful Sith in the galaxy to prominence; and position of Sith Emperor for god-like beings or best of the best.

 

If Darth Bane (a member of Rule of Two) was so much impressed by Darth Revan, imagine what he would feel about lets say Emperor Vitiate, let me guess, Darth Bane would **** in his pants. Heck, Darth (freaking) Sidious was in awe of Darth Malgus and regarded him as the greatest warrior in history, and Darth Sidious had history with Darth Plagueis, Darth Vader, Count Dooku and Darth Maul but none seemingly impressed him as much as Darth Malgus did.

 

Lord Vitiate is not powerful through the natural means of having strong potential, he used a ritual to become as powerful as he did, Malgus and Marr are of the type of Sith that had dedicated their beliefs and views on the Dark Side so much that they achieved a sort of enlightened state if you will, however a massive chunk of the Sith Order was filled with chumps, the best Sith Warriors in the galaxy were picked and pulled down to 50 Sith Lords, Malgus found the rest too weak.

Emperor Vitiate was immensely strong in the Force even when he was a natural living being, a mortal. He had such potential that advanced Force abilities came naturally to him and he is the only known Dark Lord who acquired very impressive command of the Force without formal training. He was just a child when he intimidated Marka (freaking) Ragnos, the latter accepted the child's demands without conditions and did not even dare to challenge him or target him for assassination even though he had history of doing so.

 

What some people don't understand is that the ritual of Nathema completely transformed Emperor Vitiate, his condition changed, he exceeded the limits of mortality itself, he became a god-like being, embodiment of the dark side itself, and possibly surpassed every Force-user in power at this point. He was not a normal individual now, comparing him with mortals in matters of strength and power is wrong, Emperor Vitiate continuously increased in power with passage of time. This is why so many failed to usurp him, even Strike Teams of powerful Force-users miserably flopped during confrontations with him (a Jedi Strike Team is not the only one to flop, I assure you). Emperor Vitiate fell due to circumstances, his most ambitious ritual was disrupted by his enemies and he lost much of his power in this manner. He began to recover afterwards but he was vulnerable and HoT (Hero of Tython) and his allies found a perfect opportunity to dispose him off at this point. However, Emperor Vitiate is not finished yet, he had achieved such depths of immortality, it is possible that he might return since his minions could hear his calls after his presumed demise. I hope Disney doesn't axe SWTOR project and give BioWare the go-ahead to expand existing stories.

 

Rule of Two Sith however had all of the Dark Side in their hands, they were all powerhouses in their own way and it got to the point that the force went out of balance because the Dark Side had become so concentrate in just two beings, indeed when Plagueis expired, Sidious felt a sensation that told him he was the sole possessor of the Dark Side, it's full power was his alone, this culminated in him being the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, so strong that a body that was not his own original body would literally die because it couldn't handle his power.

I agree that Rule of Two members were powerhouses in their own way. The Force didn't went out of balance by mere presence of this lineage, it went out of balance because of deliberate actions of Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious towards this end. Yes, Darth Sidious became most powerful Sith Lord in history but I now perceive this matter in a different way, he became ruler of the galaxy and he had unprecedented power under his command in this manner. Yes, Darth Sidious, was immensely powerful even in natural way, as a Force-user.

 

But comparing Darth Sidious with Emperor Vitiate in strength can lead to misleading conclusions IMO, they both have different ground realities. Emperor Vitiate became a god-like being, an immortal, he have the hype and aura of The Ones. Even Darth Plagueis, with his limited knowledge, figured that Emperor Vitiate was approaching the condition of The Ones. Darth Sidious was seemingly approaching such a position as well as apparent from his progress during DE era but it is possible that Disney might retcon this development.

 

In the nutshell, I refrain from regarding Emperor Vitiate a proper Sith, he is different. Due to the aforementioned observations, I disagree with (MOST POWERFUL) rankings done by some members. Some people just don't get the ground realities of Emperor Vitiate and mistakenly lowball him just because of hype of some characters in older sourcebooks. But to each his own, I have conveyed what I wanted.

 

The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

 

You can check my signature for additional information about Emperor Vitiate.

Edited July 16, 2014 by S_W_LeGenD

[Kaedusz]

It just seems like the Sith from the Old Republic sucked a little TOO hard. Re-watch that cutscene on Alderaan. The Sith there are just....embarressing except for Malgus.

 

But then you go the Rule of Two and almost all of them are insanely powerful.

 

 

The Sith in this era train every force user aveliable to them,just like the Jedi.

The sith now(swtor) are an institution inside a ''nation'' in which ALL force users go and belong to.

You can't really compare ''elite'' Sith masters like those in the Rule of Two with random Sith in this Era.

Now(swtor)- force sensitivity and graduation from the Sith academy and BAM you are a sith.A low ranking Sith.

 

The sith in the Rule of Two are the masters of their order(them being just two is insignificant in this context).Similar to the Dark Council ,the Wrath and the Emperor being the masters of their order.These are the ones you should compare.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Kaedusz