Do tanks need a dps buff to keep up with the current state of dps?

[Tsillah]

The problem is not the class but stupid DPS. Sadly there are a lot of those.

 

Now I know that the word "stupid" makes a lot of people jump up and feel insulted but let's be honest here. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand things like avoiding damage, using aggro drops, not breaking cc's and kill orders of mobs and what an interrupt is for.

 

Truly these are basic things. So if they are not stupid, then please feel free to explain to me what to call people who consistently fail at learning these things. I don't mean the occasional mess up. We all have our moments. I mean the completely clueless, unwilling to learn type of DPS that MMOs are riddled with these days.

 

Now I understand the OPs idea but I also don't think making the tank class easier will fix all of that and it will also have repercussions in pvp for example. I do think that they should stop sticking alacrity on tank gear though. That's something that's just taking the piss and there are actually new players out there who think it's ok to run around with that gear because hey, it's what the vendor sells so it must be good.

 

End game gearing really is something that could take a good look at. The current situation allows for easy 180 gear which I think was a bad decision. It completely bypassed basic and elite comms for gearing up. That should never have happened.

[theSCARAYone]

To make it even easier to maintain threat? Sure, why not.

[Uruare]

I think their whole approach is wrong. It should be far more about team versus objective, not players versus their own class versus their own team versus the objective.

 

If feels cheap and shoddy to me that they lean so heavily on making various classes a pita to play well. It's like in those games where bad camera controls are deliberately put in to 'enhance the difficulty'.

 

Just blank the screen out every other second, that'd make it harder as well. Have bosses with attacks that delete random abilities from your action bars perhaps!

 

Wait, that'd be really stupid? And it's not stupid to make fights seem harder because you need to be able to play piano in order to have the correct level of manual dexterity just to utilize all your necessary hotkeys?

 

Right. Yeahno, its stupid, but merely the accepted face of stupid.

 

Maybe someday they'll take the emphasis off player versus unnecessary inefficiency and we might get to do something crazy, like do more than frantically glance to the action on the screen between babysitting cd's and watching to make sure an ability has fired and so on.

 

Someday, I might get to see a fight as a tank. But not in this game.

 

I've long since learned that if I actuality want to watch more than snippets and momentary snapshots of a fight, I have to watch it on YouTube. And that's with a 17 button mouse, hotkeys everywhere in efficient reaching distance around wasd and a few ctrl+ keys to go with it all.

 

I have them memorized, but that's not enough. I often have to stare at my bars to make absolutely sure X fired when I hit it, because sometimes, things just don't fire, or they seem to amd them go on cd, but didnt actually fire. One has to react as best one is able when their crappy engine just decides your cd fired but didn't, I'd at all one can.

 

One has to babysit some of those cd's vigilantly, and watch stacks.

 

Dunno about the rest of you, but when I'm tanking on my shadow, my juggernaut or my powertech, is all the same - I don't get to see the fight.

 

I might as well be playing whack a mole with spreadsheet entries.

 

And I think that's a hilariously stupid way to make any class, not just tank, be.

 

Yet, I find its only a bit better as dps. If I'm watching the fight, I'm effing up, not hitting things as fast as I should be, wasting gcd 's beyond acceptable performance.

 

Babysit Dat bar. Watching the fights is for youtube. Why we have graphics at all, I sometimes don't know.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Uruare

[Rafaman]

The problem is not the class but stupid DPS. Sadly there are a lot of those.

 

Now I know that the word "stupid" makes a lot of people jump up and feel insulted but let's be honest here. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand things like avoiding damage, using aggro drops, not breaking cc's and kill orders of mobs and what an interrupt is for.

 

Truly these are basic things. So if they are not stupid, then please feel free to explain to me what to call people who consistently fail at learning these things. I don't mean the occasional mess up. We all have our moments. I mean the completely clueless, unwilling to learn type of DPS that MMOs are riddled with these days.

 

Now I understand the OPs idea but I also don't think making the tank class easier will fix all of that and it will also have repercussions in pvp for example. I do think that they should stop sticking alacrity on tank gear though. That's something that's just taking the piss and there are actually new players out there who think it's ok to run around with that gear because hey, it's what the vendor sells so it must be good.

 

End game gearing really is something that could take a good look at. The current situation allows for easy 180 gear which I think was a bad decision. It completely bypassed basic and elite comms for gearing up. That should never have happened.

 

I agree with your comments about dps but it all comes down to being able to adjust IMO. If I am PUG'ing I take it as a given that there will be dps that don't manage there dps. Lol. So, I use guard and my taunts to compensate. It works as long as they at a minimum know the fight mechanics for the more difficult bosses.

 

I'm not sure about end game gearing. I don't care how players got their gear tbh as long as they follow instructions.

[Kurin]

This generated a bunch of interesting responses. Most of which, quite honestly, are not going to be of benefit to the AVERAGE tank, when it comes to controlling aggro.

 

For example, of course I have main stat armorings in 3 of my armor pieces and my hilt. I know that's going to help me put out more dps, which equates to more threat (and FYI, gives me higher defensive mitigation as well). But more importantly, what AVERAGE tank would know that. And HOW would they know that, if they aren't deep, deep into the numbers. It's quite honestly counter-intuitive to think you should put DPS stuff on your tank to make you a better tank.

 

Further, the responses here were not from average players, or better yet, below average players. (little known fact: more than 90% of the driving public thinks they are a better than average driver) Judging from the information most of you have shared, you either want a more challenging game, or you already known all the "tricks of the trade" and thus don't need this change. Good for you. But what do you propose to help the AVERAGE tank? Are you HAPPY with more and more tactical flashpoints? Because they are making me absolutely sick. And I don't think BW is anywhere near done rolling them out. Will we ever again see something like pre-nerf Lost Island? Sadly, I think the answer looks more and more like no...

 

As I wrote: I know the tricks of the trade as well. But I've pugged with enough average tanks (and sadly, the below average), to know unquestionably, that these tricks of the trade are not common knowledge.

 

Further, I do not believe that "taunt and threat drop on cooldown" should NEED be part of EVERY SINGLE player's rotation. But that's essentially the state of the game today. And thus, I think the game is actually broken. I was indirect in saying so, but I believe the best among us have all learned how to deal with this broken game, but it doesn't change my belief that it is, in fact, broken. Sure, broken games are more challenging to work around. But broken is still broken.

[Deewe]

To be honest I suck at being a tank but interestingly enough it's never an issue with good groups as they know how to adapt.

 

So in the end, apart the gear, it all depends with who you are grouped with.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Deewe

[ninjonxb]

This generated a bunch of interesting responses. Most of which, quite honestly, are not going to be of benefit to the AVERAGE tank, when it comes to controlling aggro.

 

For example, of course I have main stat armorings in 3 of my armor pieces and my hilt. I know that's going to help me put out more dps, which equates to more threat (and FYI, gives me higher defensive mitigation as well). But more importantly, what AVERAGE tank would know that. And HOW would they know that, if they aren't deep, deep into the numbers. It's quite honestly counter-intuitive to think you should put DPS stuff on your tank to make you a better tank.

 

Further, the responses here were not from average players, or better yet, below average players. (little known fact: more than 90% of the driving public thinks they are a better than average driver) Judging from the information most of you have shared, you either want a more challenging game, or you already known all the "tricks of the trade" and thus don't need this change. Good for you. But what do you propose to help the AVERAGE tank? Are you HAPPY with more and more tactical flashpoints? Because they are making me absolutely sick. And I don't think BW is anywhere near done rolling them out. Will we ever again see something like pre-nerf Lost Island? Sadly, I think the answer looks more and more like no...

 

As I wrote: I know the tricks of the trade as well. But I've pugged with enough average tanks (and sadly, the below average), to know unquestionably, that these tricks of the trade are not common knowledge.

 

Further, I do not believe that "taunt and threat drop on cooldown" should NEED be part of EVERY SINGLE player's rotation. But that's essentially the state of the game today. And thus, I think the game is actually broken. I was indirect in saying so, but I believe the best among us have all learned how to deal with this broken game, but it doesn't change my belief that it is, in fact, broken. Sure, broken games are more challenging to work around. But broken is still broken.

 

I fully understand what you are trying to say and I agree that the vast majority of the people playing this game will never look into how to play their class to the most of its potential.

 

However other games have attempted to make class changes all in the name of making something easier.

WoW is a horrible offender of this one.

 

Now what you are asking is a simple one I will admit. Simply increasing the amount of DPS that Tanks put out instead of actually making the role itself easier (removing abilities).

 

However it is an extremely slipperly slope (started with good intentions) that will end with the over simplification of all classes in the game.

WoW started out the same way. They started with small changes here or there and continues to the **** that Pandaria brought.

[cvak]

This generated a bunch of interesting responses. Most of which, quite honestly, are not going to be of benefit to the AVERAGE tank, when it comes to controlling aggro.

 

For example, of course I have main stat armorings in 3 of my armor pieces and my hilt. I know that's going to help me put out more dps, which equates to more threat (and FYI, gives me higher defensive mitigation as well). But more importantly, what AVERAGE tank would know that. And HOW would they know that, if they aren't deep, deep into the numbers. It's quite honestly counter-intuitive to think you should put DPS stuff on your tank to make you a better tank.

 

Further, the responses here were not from average players, or better yet, below average players. (little known fact: more than 90% of the driving public thinks they are a better than average driver) Judging from the information most of you have shared, you either want a more challenging game, or you already known all the "tricks of the trade" and thus don't need this change. Good for you. But what do you propose to help the AVERAGE tank? Are you HAPPY with more and more tactical flashpoints? Because they are making me absolutely sick. And I don't think BW is anywhere near done rolling them out. Will we ever again see something like pre-nerf Lost Island? Sadly, I think the answer looks more and more like no...

 

As I wrote: I know the tricks of the trade as well. But I've pugged with enough average tanks (and sadly, the below average), to know unquestionably, that these tricks of the trade are not common knowledge.

 

Further, I do not believe that "taunt and threat drop on cooldown" should NEED be part of EVERY SINGLE player's rotation. But that's essentially the state of the game today. And thus, I think the game is actually broken. I was indirect in saying so, but I believe the best among us have all learned how to deal with this broken game, but it doesn't change my belief that it is, in fact, broken. Sure, broken games are more challenging to work around. But broken is still broken.

 

You cannot expect the average tank to hold aggro on a boss vs dps that are above average. An average tank can easily hold aggro against average dps, especially since they have two taunts and the dps, should they get lucky, also have an aggro dump. If a dps does not know how to use aggro dump when the boss is hitting them, then that dps is not average, but piss-poor, and should be told accordingly as all they do is f- up for everyone else.

 

Please tell me why the average tank should have it easier to play their role, compared to the average dps? A dps that does not know a decent rotation will fail every and all dps checks corresponding to his gear level. Why should it be different for the tanks?

[Rafaman]

Further, I do not believe that "taunt and threat drop on cooldown" should NEED be part of EVERY SINGLE player's rotation. But that's essentially the state of the game today. And thus, I think the game is actually broken. I was indirect in saying so, but I believe the best among us have all learned how to deal with this broken game, but it doesn't change my belief that it is, in fact, broken. Sure, broken games are more challenging to work around. But broken is still broken.

 

 

Broken? How so? Knowing when to taunt is very important and if you are decent tank threat shouldn't always be on cool down. If you are tanking and spam your taunts you aren't an average tank, you are below average and that is how it should be. You don't start a fight with a taunt, it is a situation skill, not a part of any rotation. Again, as it should be.

 

The same is true for threat dumps. I have a well geared Sent along with my tanks and I occasionally may pull a boss, I use the threat dump then, but that is rare occasion to be honest. It is not a part of any rotation.

 

No, the game isn't broken. To be effective at end game you have to know your class. It comes with experience. That includes knowing how to manage threat. That is not and indication that the game is broken.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Rafaman

[Kurin]

Please tell me why the average tank should have it easier to play their role, compared to the average dps? A dps that does not know a decent rotation will fail every and all dps checks corresponding to his gear level. Why should it be different for the tanks?

 

This is a great question, so thank you for asking it.

 

A below average dps that doesn't know a decent rotation doesn't cause a SM ops run to fail; they don't cause a flashpoint run to fail; they don't really cause any problems...they just make things take longer to accomplish. There simply are not below average dps on NiM operations teams that will ever see a true dps check.

 

in contrast, a tank that cannot hold aggro will indeed cause an ops or flashpoint run to fail. They will be called a fail tank. They will have groups rage quite on them. And here's my point: they don't know why they are failing! Seriously, no MMO out there makes holding aggro as difficult as it is in SWTOR. NONE.

 

Comparing tanking to dps in general, I would say every tank must be able to play their class better than every dps, to be considered average at either. Straight up. In SWTOR, tanking is simply harder. in almost every fight, tanks have more things to keep track of and more overall responsibilities that they need to maintain, for the team to be successful.

 

I think we all understand that it is quite true that with a "bad tank" there is almost no way for the group to succeed. A tank that faces a boss toward the group, that constantly stands in stupid, that doesn't pick up the adds in a timely manner, that doesn't watch their "stacks" and swaps before they die, etc., is simply impossible to workaround.

 

Outside NiM content, a DPS that fails can be worked around. You can rez at least once. Heck, you can finish the encounter with them dead (I can't count how many times my group has been relieved our melee dps simply die during HM Tyrans, so that they don't leave fire puddles on the tanks). Their dps makes things faster, but it's not a factor for success in 99.9% of the pve content in this game.

 

I'll repeat my position: tanking is harder than it should be in SWTOR, and a significant reason it is harder than it should be, is that a standard tanking rotation does not generate enough threat to keep up with a standard dps rotation for a tank and dps of equivalent gear. Add gear imbalances to the mix, and the AVERAGE tank will struggle to maintain control during any fight.

[TX_Angel]

The next step from being a AVERAGE DPS to a GREAT DPS (who rips aggro off average tanks) is to actively learn more about their rotation and how to make the best and most timely use of their abilities. They check out parse logs, their class's forums, and ask more knowledgable players for help.

 

The next step from being an AVERAGE TANK to a tank that holds threat against great DPS is exactly the same. They need to actively want to be better and ask questions and find information. The only barriers I see there is the player themselves, and the community.

 

Well-written post, I just don't think the answer is increasing tank DPS if good (which is technically higher than average) tanks don't have aggro issues.

 

This is a game, not a homework assignment... the idea that most players, or even many players, will visit forums or even KNOW what parse is... is crazy...

 

They log in and want to play, not study...

 

They outnumber you 20 to 1... maybe 50 to 1... the idea that there is much of a future in games that require STUDY of parse logs and visiting forums to learn tanking... is just nuts...

 

You don't have to like it, but I speak the truth...

[TX_Angel]

The solution already exists for how to become a better tank. If they don't use the knowledge, that is not something the game can or should fix.

 

Yes, don't increase the DPS, but do increase the threat multiplier...

 

Instead of 2 points of threat per DPS, make it 3... that would keep actual damage the same, but make it much easier to hold the enemy in place.

[TX_Angel]

No, the game isn't broken. To be effective at end game you have to know your class. It comes with experience. That includes knowing how to manage threat. That is not and indication that the game is broken.

 

Remind me how much end game content we've gotten in the past year?

 

DF/DP? That's about it...

 

Way, way too many people are all hardcore and think everyone else should be as well. Most people aren't, most people have a life and just want to enjoy the GAME.

 

Yes you say, there is plenty of non hard mode end game stuff for them, right?

 

Yea, there is, look at those shiny new tactical flashpoints... expect more of those and don't be shocked to find the next ops, if there are any, to have some form of "tactical" aspect to them to better cater to the casual gamer.

[slafko]

To make it even easier to maintain threat? Sure, why not.

Indeed. I could go AFK and eat something. Right now I'm glued to my chair and have to entertain myself by accepting companion missions and sending them out on new ones.

[Uvirith]

Making changes because some people don't know something is a very slippery slope that I don't want to see Bioware go down.

We have seen games (WoW) go down the path of over simplifying a game and removing things because people didn't bother to do some reading.

 

WoW simplified many things, but the way the trinity works is not on of it, and heroicraids are most definitely waaay harder than anything ToR has to offer in terms of difficulty.

 

WoW actually made the right step, going away from the traditional threatmanagement to active mitigation as main-encountermechanics.

 

And now tell me, whats more fun. Watching the fight trying to avoid any damage, positioning, controlled burst etc. or having to maintain a perfect skillrotation in order to balance a invisible ressource between the raid?

 

Dont get me wrong, I like ToR more than WoW, but WoW most definitely has the better Raid-Encounters, simply due to the fact that they modernized their holy trinity.

[Lord_of_Mu]

WoW simplified many things, but the way the trinity works is not on of it, and heroicraids are most definitely waaay harder than anything ToR has to offer in terms of difficulty.

 

WoW actually made the right step, going away from the traditional threatmanagement to active mitigation as main-encountermechanics.

 

And now tell me, whats more fun. Watching the fight trying to avoid any damage, positioning, controlled burst etc. or having to maintain a perfect skillrotation in order to balance a invisible ressource between the raid?

 

Dont get me wrong, I like ToR more than WoW, but WoW most definitely has the better Raid-Encounters, simply due to the fact that they modernized their holy trinity.

 

Both, at the same time.

[Uvirith]

Both, at the same time.

Then you need to play The Secret World

[TACeMossie]

Tanks are in a good but fragile place at the moment. While threat is not an issue most of the time, there are moments where, without your control and even with super duper planning, your attacks will be resisted, your damage dealers will do the parse of their lives and they will pull the boss from you. Of course, the taunt will bring it back but you lost aggro because as a Tank, in the current state of the game, you cannot trade mitigation for accuracy.

 

 

I can name a few bosses where holding aggro was a challenge in the past but this is not the scope of the thread. In my opinion, before they increase damage on tanks they should look at accuracy and how it affects us tanks. What is the point in making a tank hit harder or generate more threat if he misses whilst the damage dealers are running with 100% accuracy.

 

On a closing note, the chestnut with 'but real tanks hold aggro without a dps buff' will not fly for long. When damage dealers are gonna be doing above 5k DPS and tanks will be doing roughly the same threat it will become increasingly difficult to keep aggro if BW does not wake up and smell the coffee. There is a fine line between enjoying the game and showing you can hold aggro whilst being on the edge and pretty much having issues with this because the state of the game is against you as a tank.

 

I'd love to see tank stances getting +3% accuracy tied to them, with the tank stance buff in the tree giving a further +3% accuracy at max points. Would prevent these accuracy issues

 

I also wouldn't mind seeing a high-level requirement talent (e.g. Tier 6/7 of tank tree) that converts 1% of your HP into bonus damage, but that would probably end up going in the realm of "Awesome things but left out so the game remains interesting"

[Lord_of_Mu]

Then you need to play The Secret World

 

I'm too invested in SWTOR. Besides, I had load of that back in my old WoW glory days. Vanilla old school WoW, TBC Mint WoW, and Lichking Bubblegum blue WoW. I quit during that nasty Cata raspberry Wow and didn't care for Panda lemon, lime and bitters WoW.

 

 

Though this talk has awakened a desire for a spider. Sadly I lack ice cream.

[Kufuffelupagus]

... a tank that cannot hold aggro will indeed cause an ops or flashpoint run to fail. They will be called a fail tank. They will have groups rage quite on them. And here's my point: they don't know why they are failing!.

 

Hmm, sounds like the problem there is between the keyboard and the chair. Tank fails, doesn't ask how to fix a problem, no one tells them how to fix it, and people quit. That could be fixed by the players rather than the game.

 

..I'll repeat my position: tanking is harder than it should be in SWTOR, and a significant reason it is harder than it should be, is that a standard tanking rotation does not generate enough threat to keep up with a standard dps rotation for a tank and dps of equivalent gear. Add gear imbalances to the mix, and the AVERAGE tank will struggle to maintain control during any fight.

 

You're talking about gear here, when the threat generated by DPS and Tanks is more related to playstyle/ skill, don't you think? Also, crappy commendation tank gear is so that it takes longer to min/ max gear. More playtime= more money for BW. It's across all classes, how many times I've seen Sage heals with too mich crit or DPS with not enough accuracy...

 

..I think we all understand that it is quite true that with a "bad tank" there is almost no way for the group to succeed. A tank that faces a boss toward the group, that constantly stands in stupid, that doesn't pick up the adds in a timely manner, that doesn't watch their "stacks" and swaps before they die, etc., is simply impossible to workaround..

 

Everything you talked about here relates to knowledge and skill. Hopefully I'm not taking your words out of context by my cutting and pasting, but I feel that the above quote reinforces what I'm saying about skill. Which, if lacking, can be fixed by the player and the community.

 

This is a game, not a homework assignment... the idea that most players, or even many players, will visit forums or even KNOW what parse is... is crazy...

 

They log in and want to play, not study...

 

I don't think the idea of finding out how to do something you're struggling with is crazy. Think of ANY single-player game. Now think about the difficulty difference between the beginning and the end of the game. It scales in difficulty as you acquire new abilities/ skills/ weapons, etc and getting new abilities doesn't make the game easier, it still requires skill. Have you ever looked up a game walkthrough to find out how to get past a difficult part of a game? HOLY **** that's just like visiting this forum! Ever asked a friend how they did that thing with their whatsy in that other game? Just like asking a friendly group mate how to tank something!

 

And if you tell me that you've never had to do that, congratulations. /slowclap But wait, aren't we talking about the majority that outnumber me 20, maybe 50 to 1, those "average" players? Yeah.

 

You don't have to like it, but I speak the truth...

 

You speak your opinion, as do I and many others who have thoughtfully and considerately given theirs. Have all the opinions you want but unless you have something to back it up, don't claim it as "the truth". Many players I have grouped with have happily accepted and acted on advice I've given. Not all of course. But the information is there and accessible, whether through the community or the Internet, which is why- in my opinion- it's not necessary to increase tank DPS.

[Kurin]

You're talking about gear here, when the threat generated by DPS and Tanks is more related to playstyle/ skill, don't you think? Also, crappy commendation tank gear is so that it takes longer to min/ max gear. More playtime= more money for BW. It's across all classes, how many times I've seen Sage heals with too mich crit or DPS with not enough accuracy...

 

Please re-read the numbers in my first post. No matter what, a dps in the same gear level will generate more threat per second than a tank. No matter what. It's not a situation of a tank having bad gear or being under-geared. They will always lose the threat battle (without using taunt).

 

As a simple example, on my server there are 18 dps players with verified parses above 4000 dps. That equates to more than 4000 threat per second. Without using taunt, there is absolutely no way any tank can generate more than 4000 threat per second. (Sadly, there isn't anyway to do tanking parses to prove this, so you'll just have to trust me).

 

Now, if you add to this known condition of dps generating more threat than tanks, and then have a tank with inferior gear to dps (new tank in comms gear versus experienced dps in min/maxed gear), and there will be very few tanks with the skill level to overcome the inherent challenge being presented to them by the threat mechanics in this game.

[BuriDogshin]

This is a game, not a homework assignment... the idea that most players, or even many players, will visit forums or even KNOW what parse is... is crazy... They log in and want to play, not study...

Players like that should stick to Story Mode. If they don't want to put any effort into learning the game, they should avoid HM FPs and Ops. Yes, that means they will never get BiS gear, but then, since they never put any effort into learning the game, they don't even know what that is, right?

 

That's one nice thing about SWTOR: it offers things for causal players but still presents content options that take a little bit of effort to master.

[lpope]

A better title for this thread might be "Do tanks need a TPS buff to keep up with current state of dps?" because although threat is based on dps, it isn't entirely based on it. *If* there was a threat generation problem, then the solution would not be *buff tank dps*, the solution would be to buff the threat modifier of high threat abilities and / or the threat modifier on tank stances.

 

That being said, I don't believe that tanks need a threat buff at the moment. They might in the future should threat generation of dps out paces threat generation of tanks, but right now that isn't the case.

 

Please re-read the numbers in my first post. No matter what, a dps in the same gear level will generate more threat per second than a tank. No matter what. It's not a situation of a tank having bad gear or being under-geared. They will always lose the threat battle (without using taunt).

 

As a simple example, on my server there are 18 dps players with verified parses above 4000 dps. That equates to more than 4000 threat per second. Without using taunt, there is absolutely no way any tank can generate more than 4000 threat per second. (Sadly, there isn't anyway to do tanking parses to prove this, so you'll just have to trust me).

 

As a general rule, that's more or less correct as long a the condition is *without using taunts*. (There are certain dps comps that might break the rule such as all stealth using their exit combat appropriately.) Fortunately, though we have taunts so that isn't the case.

 

Threat should only really be a problem early on in an encounter - say the first 30s or so. After that, you should be so far ahead on the threat table no dps should pull from you especially when you factor in threat fluffing from taunts. It's quite easy to hit 4500 to 10000 tps within the first 10s of a fight which is more than enough to compensate for high dps.

 

In encounters without a tank swap, there is no reason you can't taunt on cooldown. I did this on Grob'throk, I'd really like to see a dps pull 175k dps and pull. In encounters with tank swaps, you've already got a mechanism to fluff your threat. And even in those, I can't think of any that occur within the first 30s where the two tanks can't force a tank swap early to boost their threat.

 

Now, if you add to this known condition of dps generating more threat than tanks, and then have a tank with inferior gear to dps (new tank in comms gear versus experienced dps in min/maxed gear), and there will be very few tanks with the skill level to overcome the inherent challenge being presented to them by the threat mechanics in this game.

 

This really isn't an issue. The only time it really matters is in progression raiding and most of the time, you should be gearing the group up at the same pace so that large gear gaps don't exist. The only caveat is if you need to gear up a replacement tank but that can be addressed by having the over-geared dps not use stims, hold off on dps or by other means. In this case, it isn't pure progression so you can handle it differently.

 

If it is a case of a PUG SM OP where the dps over gears both the tank and the OP, well then let the dps keep the aggro they stole. The dps will learn to control their aggro or die - either will work. I have 0 problems letting a dps take a dirt nap in a PUG SM OP. Now to be fair, that rarely happens to me though.

[TX_Angel]

Then you need to play The Secret World

 

I've thought about that several times, but at the end of the day, I only have so many hours in the day. How people keep up with multiple MMOs is beyond me, I have a family and a life.

[Kurin]

Threat should only really be a problem early on in an encounter - say the first 30s or so. After that, you should be so far ahead on the threat table no dps should pull from you especially when you factor in threat fluffing from taunts. It's quite easy to hit 4500 to 10000 tps within the first 10s of a fight which is more than enough to compensate for high dps.

 

Clearly, you personally understand the threat mechanics better than AVERAGE. You are probably using parsec, and have your target of target enabled in your UI. All of those things are not AVERAGE. They are significantly above average. What you take for granted as a cost of doing business as a tank, the AVERAGE tank really has no comprehension for.

 

I'm writing here to help the AVERAGE tank. The guy/gal that has never once visited the forums, or dulfy, or reddit. The tank that is just happy to give a HM FP a few runs to get their weekly done, and is considering doing SM Ops. They know how to avoid standing in fire and such, but most boss fights result in them losing aggro constantly. And all they know is that they are told they are a fail tank, or WTB Guard, or learn 2 taunt.